When it comes to writing the history of these unfolding events, the Jewish anti-Zionists groups like JVP (Jewish Voice for peace) will have their name in lights in the hall of shame.
I don’t know what the situation is in the US, but I would imagine with over five million Jews, the environment does not resemble Europe. That a few groups of anti-Zionist Jews have taken it upon themselves to publish a timely (which is why it is about the UK) public letter on the IHRA definition of antisemitism is a direct attack on British Jews. When you consider that if 75% of the groups listed combined together to put all their people into a single demonstration, they wouldn’t match the regular Shabbat turn out of a single average synagogue in the UK, you begin to realise how vile and insidious this is.
As the research also uncovered:
- Multiple signees who are members of antisemitic Facebook Group Palestine Live
- Groups that seem to have been invented for the letter
- People that signed more than once
- Bloggers who call themselves organisations
- Groups that are not actually Jewish organisations
- Groups that share antisemitic material and even one represented by a Holocaust Denier
Then it reaches a whole new level of nasty.
The JVP letter and the ‘peace’ groups
For the most part these are not ‘peace groups’ at all. This is not about borders, Gaza, ‘settlements’ or Jerusalem. Almost all the groups in the letter support BDS and are fighting to remove Israel from the map. One thing that is difficult to understand sometimes is that each Jewish community exists uniquely within it’s own context. British Jews, French Jews, Brazilian Jews, American Jews, Israeli ex-pats, the environments are so different that sometimes even when we seem to be saying the same thing, we are talking about entirely different dynamics.
Here in the UK we are fighting a high-stakes battle against rising left-wing antisemitism. British left-wing Zionist groups understand this and from left to right, British Zionists of almost every political persuasion recognise there is a problem with Jeremy Corbyn. So what kind of dangerous game is the Executive Director of the US group Jewish Voice for Peace, Rebecca Vilkomerson playing, when she publicly aligns with antisemites and Holocaust deniers to weaken the position of Jewish people in the UK?
This JVP backed letter was published in the Independent. The letter itself has been translated into seven languages and is issued as a joint statement ‘condemning attempts to stifle criticism of Israel with false accusations of antisemitism.’ Just recently I looked at a similar letter published by the Independent that turned out to be a scam. That is why this JVP letter interested me and I wanted to do some research into the forty-one groups listed.
I began by sending a simple email (not in my name) to twenty-four of the organisations listed in the letter. This one is an example:
It is almost a week since the first email was sent. I have not received a single response from any of the twenty-four ‘organisations’. Not one. This is for the most part, because many of these organisations should not be called organisations. They are one or two people with a grudge against Israel and a computer. If they are lucky they also have a felt tip pen and a sheet to draw a message on.
To further check the status of the ‘organisations’. I set out for a global tour of the groups, searching their activity online. This is what I found:
Antisemitism in Scotland
I will start with ‘Scottish Jews against Zionists‘. At the time the letter was published, the group had a history of several weeks and the website had a lifespan of about five days. The Facebook page has about a hundred likes, almost all of them not Jewish.
What I found as I researched this outfit is probably the most obscene antisemitic attack on *Jewish identity* I have witnessed. The first outing of this group was on the 16th May in Edinburgh. The spokesperson for the group was Jolanta Hadzik. She is also the face used on their self-promotion posts.
The person in the video below is Hadzic. She is introduced by Mick Napier, head of the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign. The SPSC are themselves riddled with antisemitic activists. In the report on the SPSC I published last year Jolanta was heavily referenced. I am aware of half a dozen aliases Jolanta has used over the past decade, but there is nothing to be gained by reporting here what I have found. What is relevant is antisemitism.
Here are just three posts of Jolanta’s in which she shares Holocaust Denial and conspiracies about harvesting children’s organs and Jewish global control:
There is something truly sinister about this. Napier says he read the SPSC report, yet he introduces Hadzic as part of a new ‘Jewish anti-Zionist movement’. Seeing him standing there producing Hadzic ‘as a Jew’ is representative of some truly dark days in Jewish history. It is an utterly reprehensible and antisemitic act.
The other person pushing the group is Sarah Glynn. Last year after I produced the report on hard-core antisemitism in the SPSC, Glynn chose to write a piece excusing the antisemitism (I responded to destroy her argument). No wonder she feels comfortable with Hadzic.
Glynn is also a member of antisemitic Facebook group Palestine Live:
Mixed messages from Israel
Another interesting signature was the ‘Coalition of Women for Peace’. I tried contacting them but their email bounced and the phone listed is unreachable. The Facebook Group is run by Marwa Hanna, who is an Arab citizen of Israel. Marwa also works/worked for ‘The Arab Centre for the Advancement of Social Media’. The email failure notice I received included the line ‘user doesn’t exist: firstname.lastname@example.org’ , so it seems the emails to the website are also directed to Marwa. I clearly have no problem with an Arab citizen of Israel doing anything but I do take offence if the group she ‘manages’ is pretending it is a ‘Jewish one’ rather than an ‘Israeli one’.
For Rebecca to add this group into the list is either deliberately deceptive or just stupid. In explicitly hiding / quenching the Arab voice from the organisation it is also undoubtedly racist.
This wasn’t the only racist entry. The other Israeli group listed is ‘Boycott from Within’. The organisation exists but is a small one consisting of a handful of individuals. At the head are Ronnie Barkan and Ofer Neiman. Both of these people were long time active members of the rabidly antisemitic group Palestine Live. Barkan is still there:
They don’t identify as a Jewish organisation, nor should they. The Wiki page lists them as ‘an association of Jewish and Arab Israelis’. Another one of the clan, Sahar Vardi, is also a member of Palestine Live.
Vardi is also a member of the organisation called ‘SEDQ’. They are also on the letter, so Vardi seems to have signed the letter twice.
The Jews who mix with Holocaust Deniers
No anti-racist, or person in a group who seeks peace, should be able to tolerate the secret Facebook group Palestine Live. In March I produced a 280-page report on the levels of antisemitism inside. Over 60% of all the material placed on the site is shared there by hard-core antisemites. If you remove the anti-Zionist Jews, that level rises beyond 70%. To push home the point on Palestine Live, I won’t rely on a Zionist, but a British anti-Zionist Jew. This is what Roland Rance said about Palestine Live:
‘Anyone who actively participated in it should have been able to see what an antisemitic cesspit it was‘.
In Palestine Live, every antisemitic slur imaginable has been published, liked and shared. Many of them by those who founded or were admin of the group. The Holocaust has been denied, belittled and even ridiculed. Hard-core white supremacists frequent the group and are active posters there. Many of the people who lead the groups behind this ‘open letter’ are active participants. We can start with the person who put the entire letter together. Rebecca Vilkomerson from JVP:
Rebecca is still a member of the PL group. She has been a member for forty-two months and counting. It doesn’t seem to bother Rebecca that she exchanges pleasantries with rabid Jew-haters. But then as she sent out a letter that ‘proudly’ included our Scottish Holocaust deniers, perhaps that is hardly surprising.
Blogs are not organisations (I should know)
Several of these listed organisations seem to be just blogs. ‘Quebrando Muros – Judeus Brasileiros Pela Descolonização da Palestina’ is just a blog written by Lara Haasz and Bruno Humberman. Los Otros Judíos (Argentina) has a real Twitter presence and a blog, but no apparent public footprint beyond this. It seems to be the work of Tali Feld Gleiser and Julio Rudman
The ‘organisation’ Junts, Associació Catalana de Jueus i Palestins is clearly a dual ‘Jewish – Arab organisation’. In reality it seems to consist of two people, Sara Epstien and Alex Hinno. They have been running for a while but they only started a Facebook Group one months ago. The group currently has three members. An event they held recently seems to have been the first in three years. Alex Hinno is also the spokesperson for the Palestinian Community in Catalonia. ‘Junts’ was one of the organisations that I contacted by email but who failed to respond. Clearly both Sara and Alex are busy. I wonder which one of them signed the letter.
This is one of Hinno’s shares:
When anti-Zionist organisations count, it must be difficult for them to get past ten. In a list of forty one, they were sure to have had their mathematical abilities stretched.
Take ‘SEDQ‘ which claims to be ‘A Global Jewish Network for Justice’. Two of the three signatures in an open letter SEDQ published in May are Sahar Vardi and Jordy Silverstein. Sahar is part of the ‘Boycott from Within‘ movement and Silverstein is a spokesperson for Jews against Fascism. The two groups are already signatures on the letter. As with the BAME scam, how many times do people want to sign one letter?
Or ‘European Jews for a Just Peace‘. This is simply a federation of other anti-Zionist groups. Like the Jewish Socialists and, JfJfP. Except these groups have all signed individually. As Dror Feiler is the Chairman for both ‘European Jews for a Just Peace’ and ‘JIPF – Judar för Israelisk Palestinsk Fred’, it can be assumed he signed twice. Isn’t this like cheating?
The same can be said for the ‘International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network’. Aren’t the central figures in that group already represented in the letter?
The English absurdity
The UK readers will instantly recognise these UK groups, headed by people such as Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, Mike Cushman, Jonathan Rosenhead, Debbie Fink and Glyn Secker.For those not in the UK, these people are not ‘peace-seekers’ but rather the modern day version of the communist Yevsektsiya. Not rooted in Bundism, religious orthodoxy or Zionism, but rather sold on the idea that the solution to the Jewish question is total assimilation. There is a Twitter account that monitors the various outrageous statements by some of these people.
They open multiple groups to pretend they are bigger than they are, and it goes without saying that the UK provided more groups to the letter than the US. This, despite the UK having only a fraction of the size of the US Jewish population and with no evidence that UK Jewish anti-Zionism spreads beyond a tiny fringe element of the community. The core activists simply have more groups than people and my local synagogue has more people turn up for a regular Shabbat, than all these groups could muster combined. It has been shown time and again that the groups are effectively all the same people.
- Free Speech on Israel
- Independent Jewish Voices
- Jewish Socialists’ Group
- Jewish Voice For Labour
- Jews for Justice for Palestinians
This image taken from my research into Palestine Live, best highlights the issue (links to the evidence is provided with the report – part two page 87-88):
At least SEVENTEEN hats worn by six people.
Five of the six are STILL members of Palestine Live. Only Rachel Lever, who was a member, seems to have left. This in spite of the inexcusable and well publicised levels of antisemitic activity. Like most anti-Zionist Jews these people have no problem at all holding the hands of hard-core antisemites.
All of these people were added by Elleanne Green, all know it is her group and she has shared 100’s of deeply antisemitic posts. They also know that far-right white supremacists and neo-Nazis are active there.
Taking the English Mickey, JVP comes to town
Another UK group in the list ‘Jewish Voices for Peace in London‘ doesn’t seem to exist. Perhaps they meant ‘Jewish voices for peace in the UK‘, which does exist as they successfully managed to open a Facebook page on 14th July, three days before the open letter was published.
Perhaps it is good they seem to be opening a branch here. The few dozen active British Jewish anti-Zionists don’t have enough anti-Zionist groups to choose from!
So who is behind this new group? I managed to put two names to it, Haim Bresheeth and David Cannon. I’ve seen Bresheeth several times before. I’ve seen him say this:
“everything in Israel currently has to go. Zionism has to go.….the JNF, the Jewish agency, every single authority, every single institution, is Zionist..”
Is that the ‘Voice of Peace’? Bresheeth is an active member of Palestine Live. He must know that the site was full of hard-core antisemitism but it does not seem to bother him as he continues to freely interact with Elleanne Green the founder:
He has also identified as being part of ‘Free Speech on Israel’, who have already signed the letter:
Bresheeth has a long history of outrageous comments. This isn’t even the first UK anti-Zionist group Haim has started. In 2003 Bresheeth helped start a group with JVL’s Roland Rance called ‘Jews Against Zionism‘. Sitting alongside Haim at the event was Lenni Brenner. As a result, a major focus of the event were Brenner’s distortions over ‘Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis’. This shouldn’t come as a surprise, Bresheeth has apparently made his own ‘adjustments’ to Holocaust history.
Helping Haim in setting up JVP is David Cannon. Cannon’s father is Jewish. He is obviously part of the new crowd who use Jewish heritage of any kind to speak ‘as a Jew’ as they set out to attack the Jewish community. Cannon is a conspiracy fruitcake:
The ‘legitimate questions’ included those about Jewish people not turning up for work on 9/11. The video was made and shared by Luke Rudkowski. It shows how Corbyn’s ‘left-wing’ sits comfortably with far-right conspiracy ideology. Cannon also happily shares Gilad Atzmon. 9/11 isn’t Cannon’s only conspiracy fetish. There is this:
This is the link to the above article. The site pushes Rothschild conspiracy, the Khazar myth and all manner of antisemitic conspiracy. It blames the Jews for the Holocaust and links to the most racist sites on the internet. Cannon has also posted videos about the New World Order that suggests the ‘Zionist agenda is a large part of the NWO’.
More recently he suggested that Mossad, rather than Russia were behind the Salisbury poisoning. Holocaust revisionism and Rothschild Conspiracy. The new JVP group should do well.
‘Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine‘ are a Facebook page which gets about two updates a month. It is run by a couple of Jewish people in Manchester who attend anti-Israel demonstrations with a sheet they drew a message on. They legitimise anti-Israel activity by giving it a kosher stamp, but never seem to have hosted an event themselves. Faceless, nameless, they couldn’t pull together a minyan.
European groups and assistance
I would like help from anyone who can provide more information on these European groups. I have researched and made headway, but language is clearly a hurdle:
- Italian Network of Jews Against the Occupation – seems to be Paola Canarutto and a couple of friends. Already signed the document as part of the European Network.
- Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique. ‘Its members are almost all members of the Communist Party of Belgium’. Already signed the document as part of the European Network.
- Union Juive Française pour la Paix. Already signed the document as part of the European Network.
- Jüdische Stimme für gerechten Frieden im Nahost. Already signed the document as part of the European Network.
- Jewish Voice for Democracy and Justice in Israel/Palestine (Switzerland). Seems to be wrongly named. Already signed the document as part of the European Network.
- A Different Jewish Voice – Netherlands & another Jewish Voice – Belgium. Already signed the document as part of the European Network
Jewish AntiFa Berlin
The first thing to differentiate this Berlin organisation is that it is named in English and most of its posts are written in English. This suggests it is driven by a few Israeli ex-pats with an external focus. A recent article in German numbered them at ‘about a dozen’. They invited Jackie Walker to speak in 2017. Walker is hardly a person Jewish anti-racists should be associated with. You know you are on shaky ground with these groups when you use the Google image search function and the result doesn’t show any (or much) public activity.
There are three groups in this section. Two from Australia and one from New Zealand.
‘Jews against Fascism’ are in Melbourne, reporting from the ‘occupied lands of the Kulin nation‘. The group seems to be student Max Keiser. They have little non virtual footprint.
‘Jews against the Occupation’ is Vivienne Porzsolt. I spent several hours looking for associated members and came up virtually fruitless. They had an action in 2011 outside a Max Brenner shop. 15-20 people turned up. Impressive, until you realise that action was supported by FOUR other organisations. It is sickening when you realise that these two-people outfits are used by groups like Kairos to justify their antisemitic pro boycott stance.
‘Dayenu: New Zealand Jews Against Occupation’ is two people. Justine Sachs and Avigail Allan. Recently Avigail has fallen silent and it seems to be Justine running a one-man show. Justine is ‘famous’ because she co-wrote the letter to Lorde urging her to cancel her Israeli gig (which she did). The person she co-wrote the letter with is Nadia Abu-Shanab. They both use aliases on FB (Justine Rose & Nadia Filistin). Nadia, who was born in Leeds, is part of the NZ Palestine Solidarity Network.
Dayenu have no visible public footprint. They don’t hold protest events because they represent nobody. This is what I see as a global trend. A couple of Jews, standing next to a group of people who align with real haters. As an active anti-Zionist Jew, you are either giving legitimacy to an antisemite or to someone holding hands with an antisemite.
JVP and the USA
There were eight North American (6 US + 2 Canadian) groups listed.
- Arbeter Ring/Workmen’s Circle, Southern California
- Boston Workmen’s Circle, Center for Jewish Culture and Social Justice
- Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)
- Jewish Voice for Peace – JVP
- Jews for Palestinian Right of Return
- Jews Say No!
- United Jewish People’s Order (Canada)
- Jews of Color & Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in Solidarity w/ Palestine’ (seems to be a blog, written in partnership with JVP)
I did not enter this area because North American Zionist groups understand what is on their doorstep far better than I do. Please feel free to send me information. They do seem to be a mix, but the North American discussion is a long way from the isolated environment that European Jews find themselves in today.
For the most part organisations in the US need to ask why they are getting involved to protect and defend European antisemitism? This isn’t about peace in Israel. Do they really want to stand alongside Holocaust deniers and antisemitic conspiracy theorists as these people attack European Jews?
Who are these people
If I need to distinguish the different elements it is an assortment of oddities, outcasts, haters and the naive.
- Some are simply leaving the community and want to do so without guilt. Whereas two generations ago these people would have left the fold with extreme discomfort, today they can self-justify
- Or they are simply the black sheep. Several (and considering the low number they represent, several is a lot) family members of our most famous anti-Zionists have been in touch with me to tell the story of the ‘lost child’ or ‘wayward sibling’
- Then there are those with daddy issues. A lifetime spent getting back at daddy the best way they can – by hating what he loves
- Others who are antisemitic, hate Jews but claim to have Jewish heritage. Someone who has never spent a day inside a Jewish household speaking ‘as a Jew’ about his hate for Israel
- A few Israeli ex-pats, who want to ‘fit in’ inside their new home
- Finally of course there are the naive and privileged. Spoilt young people in the west, born into relatively affluent households, who cannot handle the internal discomfort that brutal reality sometimes creates
The enemies of the Jewish people *always* end up being written as the bad guys of history. I don’t know the inner workings or wider membership of some of the groups, but I am sure that some people aligned with these groups do not want to align with Nazis and rabid antisemites in the attack against the Jewish community of the UK. Yet this is EXACTLY what they have publicly done and this is the way these organisations will be forever remembered.
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68 thoughts on “JVP and other fringe groups align with Holocaust Deniers to attack British Jews”
I’m sad to see that the Arbeter Ring in Boston has turned into this kind of anti-Zionist group. They used to do useful work fostering Yiddish culture.
Terrific work, again
Love the dress David
Ok, I’ll bite…. ‘the dress’?
Why give this creature the craved attention he never received from his mum?
“the JNF, the Jewish agency, every single authority, every single institution, is Zionist” – well, duh!
Soi-disant ‘anti-Zionists’ can be divided into 2 groups: those who have no clue what ‘Zionism’ means, and those who know but pretend not to.
By the way, look out for the forthcoming BBC hatchet job on British Jews (on BBC 2, I think).
Counter chant this…
From the River to the Sea,
Pal-e-STINE Will NEVER BE!
Jewish Voice for Peace?
Why isn’t there a sister “Muslim Voice for Peace”??????????
Speaking of COLLABORATION, here is a 30 second newsreel of N(S)DAP SOCIALIST hitler meeting and sitting down with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
I hope Gabriel takes 30 seconds out of his busy day to watch the above newsreel that documents the close relationship between Socialist SHlTler and the Grand Mufti.
You can Google “hitler grand mufti” to get more details about those two comrades in Jihad.
However fringe or bogus these players may be, the age-old and perverse phenomenon of Jewish anti-Semitism is real, albeit little-known (alas, no Hall of Shame). Read Paul Bogdanor or Francisco Gil-White (e.g., http://www.hirhome.com/israel/leaders1.htm). Even mainstream Jewish groups betrayed their people during WWII. Today, we still see the ADL, even AIPAC (U.S.), for example, behaving very questionably (contrary to what people believe). The issue today is Zionism, but it could be anything. For example, it seems that thousands of Jews in France offered to stand guard to watch the cell of Dreyfus, the Jewish soldier falsely accused of treason; but less than a handful offered to defend him. What to do.
We all have to push back.
If Israel, Zionism, was the problem, then Muslims would be living in peace with NON-Zionists, but they’re not.
Muslims are at War with EVERYBODY.
Muslims are at War with Bahais, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians, Animists, Atheists and the wrong kind of Muslim.
500,000 dead in Syria. 1,000,000 dead from the 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran War.
I voted for Trump because I hope he would mock and crap on PC, FAKE anti-War culture that shills for Islamofascism.
Your logic seems slightly flawed.
Actually, someone’s right may not be deduced by the fact that someone else is wrong.
What’s slightly flawed?
500,000 dead in Syria – Arabs/Muslims killing Arabs/Muslims?
Arabs/Muslims killing Arabs/Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Fascist Iran, Yemen, Libya?
TRUE or FALSE comrade?
> Your logic seems slightly flawed.
Gabby, I’m still waiting, more than a day, for you to tell me what’s slightly flawed about my logic.
The FACT that Arabs/Muslims are waging Jihad, killing all kinds of people ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Arabs/Muslims killing NON-Zionists ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Arabs/Muslims killing Bahais, Budhists, Christians, Hindus, Zoroatrians, Animists, Atheists AND Jews AND the wrong kind of Muslim (sunni v shiite v salifi v romulan).
Gabby, WHY are Arabs/Muslims at the center of virtually EVERY TERRORIST ATROCITY ALL OVER THE WORLD????
“As an active anti-Zionist Jew, you are either giving legitimacy to an antisemite or to someone holding hands with an antisemite” – what is the difference between an anti-Zionist and an antisemite? Asking for a friend.
May seem a little superficial to state “Rete Ebrei Contro l’Occupazione” is just “Paola Canarutto with a couple of friends”. I know myself at least six persons from the network. None of them is an antisemite, as far as I can guess. There are also a few famous people linked to that group.
WOW! You know six people. You win. LOL!
I know more than six people who are against a racist, Islamofascist Pal-e-STINE which invades the Olympics and murders athletes, murders US Senator Robert F. Kennedy, celebrates 9/11, screams for death to America, executes gays by pushing them off rooftops, executes opponents and drags their bodies behind motorcycles, hijacked passenger planes, murdered passengers.
SCREW your Racist, Fascist, Terrorist “Pal-e-STINE” – and you too. 🙂
Gabriel, You review books you admit you have not read. You make assertions about antisemitism and then admit you are guessing. Then you get sniffy when you’re called out on this. Honestly, what did you expect to happen?
Oh no, I’m not sniffy. On the contrary, I’m just right, and you’re embarrasingly wrong. More, in fact you were just caught making false statements – sheer ad hominem, btw no argument – about me, and then you repeated your method. Your manifestly false claims, accusing me of having done or said things I never did, are ridiculous per se to any educate reader and seem just aimed at wasting my time; do you want me to waste my time writing obvious, unnecessary rebuttals?
Or do you have an argument on some topic instead?
More unhinged drivel from the loony Gabby.
Thanks for being so articulate
leah27z IS articulate and correct.
Just to remind, this was what I actually wrote in my (first, and only) post dealing with the Collier-Hoffmann report and with Suarez’ response (you may read carefully and notice it was *not* a review of Suarez’ book – and there was nothing that I “admitted later” – as you falsely claimed). This was the post:
About Suarez’ book. I first point out that I didn’t read it, therefore my perception of the debate on it is based on limited information. However I have read the critical dossier that you published on your blog attacking Suarez, and I have to say that I found your points unconvincing.
I have also read critiques attacking Ilan Pappe for his famous book, and also those were making weak or inaccurate points imho.
I am not able to determine whether there are many factual errors in the book, which a I said, I didn’t even read. But I noticed that many reported errors of Suarez “pointed out” appear manifestly irrelevant, and the extraordinaryly aggressive, derogatory language by which they are “condemned” makes the criticism appear unbalanced, not credible, make it look as many topic “points” are in fact just pretexts for one “ad hominem” argument against the author – attempting to lable the author as “inaccurate” or unreliable etc. This type of criticism is not serious.
A point also made by person (Hoffmann) attempted to attack Suarez affirming that his book “even questions truth of survivor of Mengele’s Nazi experiment” with the purpose of implying that Suarez questions the veracity of Mengele’s crimes themselves. There is no trace of any such content in Suarez’ book, while pretextuous and vicious attacks on the author do not contribute to the credibility of the critics.
On the other hand, while the criticism focuses on this quite ad hominem operation against Suarez, it seems to me that completely fails to address some factual conclusions of the book. Like the finding that “from the beginning of WWII through to the summer of 1947, virtually all of the terrorism in Palestine was Zionist”. What we see in David’s report is gperplexing reinterpretation of historical sources where the words “intensification of Jewish terrorism” (implying it has been already present) is reported as “civil disobedience”.
I happen to agree with Suarez’ view of history, but my personal conclusion about Zionism is not based on Suarez’ book. It is based on an overall assessment of several elements, of structural. logical and contextual kind, which draw a solid picture of evidence, while i would consider Suarez’ essay just a book about detail. I don’t know if the book is academically unsound, but it looks like a book that focuses on details.
On a macro-level of analysis, for example, I would consider ridiculous a statement that Irgun and Lehi would be fought and condemned by Zionism because they were terrorists, when the truth is that their terrorist leaders became prime ministers of Israel, and streets and towns are named after Lehi, Yair, Begin etc. “
Gabby, you have Pal-e-STINE OCD. You can’t see anything outside the Pal-e-STINE box your in.
You don’t see Arabs/Muslims killing people ALL OVER THE WORLD because it undermines your poor Pal-e-STINIANs failures living narrative.
Again, for sickos like you, IF Israel, IF Zionism was the problem, then Arabs/Muslims would be living in Peace with NON-Zionists.
But they’re not.
Arabs/Muslim hate EVERYBODY. It’s been going on for 1,400 years.
Why is there Terrorism in the West? It’s because Arabs/Muslims have left their sh*tholes in the Middle East and moved to the West and brought their “culture” and “values” and Jihad that made their home SH*Tholes the HELLholes that are now.
I already said your logic is flawed, and said why: because it is simply a fallacy => it is not possible to affirm that someone is right by deducing it from the fact that someone else is wrong.
It is not possible to deduce that “Zionism is good” by affirming that “Islam is bad”. Because it is well possible that they are both shit.
Why is terrorism in the West? I’ll tell you what terrorism is from my personal experience, the point of view of an Italian: an example of terrorism is the Operation Condor, orchestrated by Kissinger, that is arrest, torture and disappearence of tens of thousands of people in Chile, Argentina, Paraguay.
Terrorism is the Egyptian Al-Sisi regime – a close ally of Israel – a country where every day someone disappears.
Terrorism is the 400+ terrorist bombings in Italy during the “Years of Lead”, none of them placed by Arabs of Muslims, but all orchestrated by the USA in collusion with some devious branches of Italian agencies and Italian mafia.
Terrorism was the practice of the regime of Rheza Palawi in Persia, that came to power thanks to a coup organized by CIA against a democratically elected secular goverment.
And about this nonsense tat “Arabs”(“Muslims?”) “hate everyone”:
what do you think Europeans (and then recently, Americans) have been doing around the world, or in their own home, if not killing people?
Syrians are caught in a genocidal sectarian civil war, under a bloody dictatorial regime. But what is the difference between the Syrian civil war, and the Spanish civil war? There is no difference. It looks exactly the same.
The Arab world has serious political issues, they have wars and instabilities. But, are we Europeans always loving an caring? Didn’t we use to slaughter each other in religious wars throughout history, at least until 1945?
Arabs attack other people? But didn’t Europeans invade half of the world? Didn’t the UK commit genocides against muslims, like in Bengala during the 40s? Didn’t Italy and France attack and massacre foreign Muslim populations who did not invade them? Didn’t the French perpetrate terrorism against civilians during Damascus revolt in 1924-25, after Britain & France had occupied Iraq and Syria?
Come on Edward, try to get out from your own hole
Gabby, you filthy socialist.
Your fellow Italian Mussolini, first a socialist, later a fascist, invader of Libya, an ally of socialist hitler, rightly ended up, upside down, like a pig, by the hands of Good Italians.
Should we look at Roman/Italian Imperialism, Crucifixion, Slavery, Fascism?
Socialism/Communism has been a blight on the world – from National SOCIALISM, Soviet SOCIALISM, Russian Communism, Soviet Slave States, “democratic” SOCIALISM, Pol Pot, Mao and his Cultural Revolution, Venezuela, Lenin, Marx, Mugabe, De Valera and more.
Islam is at War with the ENTIRE WORLD. OPEC is RAPING the ENTIRE WORLD with overpriced oil which used to be $10 per barrel. Now it’s $75 per barrel.
Pssst Edward those good Italians were communist partisans
Don’t tell him. His brain is in meltdown already.
And the “good” irish were National SOCIALIST partisans – like Irelands Nazi-phile President Deamon de Valera.
And the really strange thing is that the Self-Righteous, Progressive, Liberal, Enlightened Left,
sides with the MOST Regressive, MOST Conservative, MOST Right-Wing element in the world today —
Ultra Conservative, Ultra Right-Wing, Ultra Homophobic, Ultra Misogynist, Ultra Anti-Semitic
Why the LUV of Fascism? Maybe because the Sand Na zis share your hate of the West and share goals to destroy it?
I strongly believe that you will be upset by how things work out for you. Eurabia sees immigration from Muslim countries as a Negative influence on their societies.
Gabby, Here’s a topic.
We are 8 days away from the seventeen anniversary of the 9/11 2001 Islamofascist Terrorist attacks on New York, Washington DC and world-wide commercial aviation.
Do you acknowledge that 19 Arabs/Muslims perpetrated that terrorist attack?
Was 9/11 preceded and followed by Islamofascist Terrorist attacks on London, Paris, Mumbai, Nairobi, Boston, Moscow, Ottawa, Brussels, Bali, Beslan, Bamiyan, Pan Am 103?
And, do you acknowledge that Israel perpetrated a terrorist campaign through the planting of car-bombs against civilians in Lebanon from 1980 to 1983?
Screeching loon Gabby …
You don’t answer. So you have nothing to say
Bit biased, aren’t you?
Are you saying the reported facts are false?
“(…)from 1979 to 1983, that is to say precisely the period between the Jerusalem and Washington conferences, very senior Israeli officials conducted a large-scale campaign of car-bombings that killed hundreds of Palestinians and Lebanese, most of them civilians. In fact, by the time his New York Times OpEd was published Sharon had been personally directing this “terrorist” operation for a full year. Even more remarkably, one of the objectives of this covert operation was precisely to goad the PLO into resorting to “terrorism” so as to provide Israel with a justification to invade Lebanon.
These claims are not the product of a feverish, conspiratorial mind. A barebones description of this secret operation was published by Ronen Bergman, a well respected Israeli journalist in the New York Times Magazine on January 23, 2018. This article was adapted from Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations, where a much more detailed account of the operation, entirely based on interviews with Israeli officials involved in or aware of the operation at the time, is provided”.
Are you saying that this is false?
You have been reading the ‘drivel’ that is produced by Mondoweiss and the likes of JVP for to long, and now you believe without question what they say
New York Times Magazine on January 23, 2018, the author is Ronen Bergman. But you elude the question. I asked a question. Are you stating this is false?
If you have better documented versions of history, I will listen.
Maybe you also believe Sabra and Shatila folks died of natural causes?
Gabby, Sabra and Shatilla? Arabs killing Arabs.
9/11 – Arabs/Muslims killing all kinds of people – close to 3,000 people in few hours
Bastille Day truck jihad in Nice France – Arab/Muslim killing all kinds of people
London’s 7/7 2005 transport bombings – Arabs/Muslims killing all kinds of people
Paris’ Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan – Arabs/Muslims killing all kinds of people
Assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy in 1968 – Pal-e-STINIAN killing an innocent man.
Boston Marathon bombing, Manchester theater bombing, Mumbai India massacre, Nairobi mall massacre, Orlando nighclub massacre, San Bernardino massacre, bombing of Pan Am 103, beheading of British soldier Lee Rigby in London, beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl, ISIS beheading videos, Luxor massacre, 1972 Olympics massacre, Coptic Christian, Armenian Genocide by the Turks, Sadaams WMD (Poison Gas) attack on the Kurds of Halabja Iraq, murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, …..
These atrocities are committed by YOUR guys Gabby.
Funnily enough Edward that is more or less what Begin said. ” Just goys killing goys” Shrug.
Gabriel (above); “I don’t know if the book is academically unsound, but it looks like a book that focuses on details.”
There you go again. You can’t seem to help yourself. How can a book that you haven’t read look like it focuses on details; the picture on the front cover, the review slogan from Variety on the back, something someone told you?
You can’t expect to keep saying this sort of thing and not get called out on it can you?
The quotes, Ian, and the Collier-Hoffmann report, and Suarez’ responses (which was, in a way, “something someone told me” – as I point out from line 1). Also, even though at the time I hadn’t read the book, I had the opportunity to read the index, observed that the book was 400 page long and contained about 100 pages of references, and I had read some of the references myself. They had appeared to me being about topics, folks or event, which at the time I would consider “details” or side stories from my point of view. And above all, this was how the Collier-Hoffman report describes it, it’s something that emerged from the quotes in Suarez’ response, and was apparent from some of the references – I also acknowledge one point: that to say something “focuses on details” is something quite generic and subjective to say (events, points or topics are not *objectively* either details rather than important topics, they are so only from somebody’s perspective, it’s about whether one considers them interesting or not).
I’ll add an obvious point: any potential reader, one who likes books, as picks up book and observes it in order to decide if it’s worth reading, would make some assessment on its content, may read comments, reports or reviews, gathers information and usually perceives whether or why it could be interesting or not, long before he decides to read it. In other words, a text is not just information isolated from the world and no other information attached: there is instead also a load of para-textual information attached – which might be a massive load – that tells about it long before you get to the text (para-textual info can be incoherent with the text, but this is another story).
(Btw, meanwhile I’ve also happened to read the book, although not entirely)
Ian, I remind you that you are the one who has been caught lying, more than once. You are not in the position of “calling out” someone by repeatedly stating false things about them.
Gabriel, there used to be guy that posted here called Chris. Whenever he was rumbled or boxed off down some cul-de-sac of his own making, his tactic was to write some massive post about nothing in particular; Welsh miners, 18th Century French History, Slippers and hope to deflect in that way. This also enabled him to keep a safe distance from proper discussion as per your Activists Code. In the end the old booby couldn’t help himself and he made a right arse of himself more than once. Are you him?
Ian, let’s remind you again, that you are just a liar. And that I’m in no cul-de-sac whatsoever.
I am a polite person who tries to explain things to people with a decent articulation. I made clear, reasonable points and you know that.
339 words is not something “massive”. It’s 1min 50sec read. You are not used to spending this time for learning something you don’t know?
Ease of Reading: 0
Staying on point: 0
Don’t worry I wasn’t talking with you.
I was answering a question by someone else “How can a book that you haven’t read look like…”
I explained him how texts may indeed “look like” (they tell things) long before you read them.
Talking about bullshit.
David Collier, your little cohort are folks to whom Sabra and Chatila was “Arabs killing Arabs”. At least you have the genocide deniers of your own likes.
Gabby, Yep. Sabra and Shatilla were Arab on Arab mayhem
like the Arab on Arab bloodbaths occurring today in Syria (500,000 dead), Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen.
Now we’re 5 days away from the seventeen anniversary of the 9/11 Sand Nazi attack on the entire world.
What a relief. I can now speak freely on Israel. Israel is a rcist endeavour
“rcist” Bellers? Bit much for an old Papist like you.
Oh Ian did the ” a ” key not register. Your gate keeping is so funny.
Oh come on Bellers. It was just a cheap gag. You don’t take this seriously. Why should anyone else?
You’ve always been able to speak freely on Israel Stephen, just like you can speak about Russia, Germany, Nigeria, China and Korea. What this at least settles is the long running question of what, if anything, the Labour Party adopted. Having said that it is no more than an erasable tick box exercise which is only as strong as the intent to implement it.
Well no one else has implemented it save some dumb fuck administrator at the University of Central Lancashire. I can’t wait for the fun to start if and when the LP tries to implement it. Don’t hold your breath.
How do you feel about this David ?
How do you feel about this Dumb Bellamy?
Irish Republicanism and Nazi Germany
Completely relaxed about it Edward. After all after 800 years why would Irish Republicans give a flying fuck about the UK’s balance of power in Europe issues with Germany.
Anyway this could possibly cheer you up you miserable bastard, but I doubt it
ZERO Diversity in that crowd.
Looks like a Racist Utopia.
In particular do you agree with your comrade in arms Scoffie’s view that Naomi is a pile of shit ?
Nah, YOU Dumb Bellamy are a pile of Socialist SHlTler.
I think we both know that terminology such as that isn’t really my style. I think we both also know that I do not have a high opinion of Naomi. I also understand why Jewish people feel angry when they see her. Having said that, I do not regard the small Jewish ‘anti-Zionist’ contingent as being responsible for the disproportionate amount of airtime and attention they receive. In other words it isn’t Naomi’s fault lots of people hate Jews and we all only know Naomi’s name because a lot of people hate Jews. I far prefer the term ‘useful idiot’ to ‘self hater’.
The charge in question is ” pile of shit” .
I think I answered that
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