How is this for a fun fact: A small group of anti-Zionist Jews set out to oppose Habima theatre, discredit them, have them boycotted, and remove any official support they received. These people wanted Habima, and their ‘Zionism’ sent packing. Does it sound familiar? It shouldn’t, because those responsible were not ‘Jews for Boycotting Jewish Goods’, they were the communist ‘Yevsektsiya’ and these actions were taking place almost a hundred years ago.
We can now jump forward to 2012. These are two of ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’s’ senior officials, Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi and Mike Cushman protesting the presence of the Habima Theatre in London:
Once again stripping away at history presents us with evidence that the cart is being placed before the horse. Over 90 years ago, before Israel and before any ‘occupation’, Habima theatre was being boycotted by those on the radical left. There was no ‘Palestinian solidarity’ involved, in that early boycott. In history we find today’s truth, so let us take a quick look.
Europe’s Jewish problem
We all know how this ended up being played out. Hitler removed Europe’s ‘Jewish problem’ from the planet. The removal of the six million Jews so definitively solved the problem, it is difficult to place the argument into context today, mainly because the ‘problem’ is no longer around to be analysed.
At the time, nobody really disputed the existence of a problem, and the critical arguments took place only over the solution. A battle of antisemitic wills took place, one under the flag of Nationalism, the other waving the ‘Red Banner’. One which sees Jews as a race of enemy aliens within, the other that sees Jewish identity, rather than the Jewish person, as the central threat.
Driven by a thirst for conquest, Hitler’s Nationalism, created the paradox that was to see the birth of the ‘Final Solution’. Communist antisemitism however, set about attacking two pillars of Jewish identity, the national (Zionism), and the religious (Judaism).
The Jewish solution
Crucially, the argument over the ‘Jewish problem’ was dealt within Jewish circles too. There were many different opinions, but in truth, there were two central positions. The national movement (Zionism), that saw the answer in Jewish self-determination, and the other was the Jewish Labour Bund, that believed semi-autonomous pockets of self-identifying national groups, could cohabit, and this would alleviate the pressures of conflicting national movements.
The Bundist movement was almost wiped out by the Holocaust. The Bundist position, the idea that Jewish people did not need a land of their own, burnt in Auschwitz.
Zionism didn’t win the argument because of the Holocaust, Zionism won because it was so tragically right.
We cannot know how many Jews would have made it out, had the British not reneged on their Mandate commitments, but we do know it would have saved some. When it comes to seeking apologies from the British, 2039, the 100th anniversary of the disgraceful White Paper, will be a date to knock on their door.
The Jewish solution had to be born in some type of national solution, because communism offered no space for refuge. Both Jewish nationalism and the Jewish religion were under attack from the Red Banner. To further this aim, a group of communist Jews, mainly ex-Bundists who had joined the cause of the ‘October Revolution’, were recruited to ‘carry the communist revolution to the Jewish masses’. Standing in opposition to Zionism and with an anti-religious stance, this group was called the Yevsektsiya.
Their role was explicit. It was to attack Jewish identity. In time, ‘every Jewish cultural and social organization came under assault.’. The stated mission was ‘destruction of traditional Jewish life, the Zionist movement, and Hebrew culture’
The Yevsektsiya, used the machine apparatus of the communists to spread propaganda, they staged demonstrations that made it looked like they had ‘popular support’ which in turn led to actions against both national and religious targets of the Jews. When the Zionists managed to show they had the numbers on their side, the Yevsektsiya ‘doubled’ their efforts. They used ‘legislation, persuasion and force’. Because they existed within the same political sphere, one of their primary targets was the ‘Bund’, which by 1921 succumbed and joined the Yevsektsiya faction.
JVL, the Yevsektsiya of today
The are too many parallels here to be cast aside. Arising from within today’s radical left, are those groups that see Jewish identity as a threat. We are seeing the deployment of a number of Jews to take Corbyn’s social revolution to the ‘Jewish masses’. They are used so the central movement behind them can deflect accusations of antisemitism. The number of Jews involved are tiny, yet their voices are amplified out of all proportion to their size:
It is always the same faces. Idrissi, Cushman and co, simply hiding behind different banners and different ‘movement’ names. Free Speech on Israel, Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods, Jewish Voice for Labour – it is all the same handful of radical left-wing Jews. They use propaganda to push their cause, suggest they represent the ‘popular movement’, and seek to restrict the standing of all the mainstream Jewish voices. These same people stand at the front of almost all British boycott Israel demonstrations. In a move eerily reminiscent of Yevsektsiya attacks on the Bundists, JVL’s early blows are directed towards the current Jewish Labour Movement, as JVL attempt to take ‘Jewish’ control of the party.
These same anti-Zionists even boycotted Habima Theatre, over ninety years since their ideological cousins, were doing the same thing in Russia. The problem isn’t Israel, it never was, the issue is Jewish identity.
Today’s Yevsektsiya and antisemitic Labour
These few Jews are being used as a front to legitimise the attack the Jewish mainstream. The antisemitism is in the political deployment of that group. The over-use and over-amplification of the voice of that group. The institutional, ideological attack against Jewish identity currently receiving a standing ovation every time that Corbyn’s Labour gathers. The same signs go up at every rally. This from a recent Corbyn rally in Brighton:
They are effective tools. Non-Jews cannot deal with this issue. When Idrissi says ‘as a Jew’ during an interview, she expertly disarms the reporter. Yet the question has to be why is she there being interviewed in the first place? Why are 5% of Jews given so much airtime? Why is it, that every-time the Jewish mainstream is given representation, these 5% must be given equal time? They are nothing, nobodies, irrelevant. we shouldn’t even know their names. These people are the Yevsektsiya of today, a group deployed to serve an ideological purpose in the current war against Jewish identity. Why are they ever-present? The answer is antisemitism.
Hiding behind Labour’s Yevsektsiya
You can be religious and not Zionist, you can be Zionist and not religious, but you cannot be both anti-religious and anti-Zionist in the Diaspora without bringing about an end to the Jewish family tree. Imagine for just one moment, that JVL gave a representative face of British Jews. Imagine that all Jews were like this. How would the Jewish people look in two generations? They simply wouldn’t. JVL represent the ‘communist’ answer to Judaism, the eradication of the identity. Their way, the Jewish people would simply cease to exist.
The propaganda involved is staggering. Calls to restrict the over-amplification of the voice are met with accusations of ‘suppression’. Apparently, this ideologically driven antisemitic hate, should be allowed to develop freely. Perversely, they turn criticism of the group on its head, suggesting that opposition to these Jews is the only real antisemitism in the room. Look at this vile tweet from Asa Winstanley:
That’s antisemitism right there. Winstanley is using today’s Yevsektsiya to attack Jewish identity, both in the national and religious sense. The group are putrid, yet Winstanley hides behind them for ideological reasons. As does, rather unsurprisingly, Ben White:
Ben White. 814 retweets. The same identifiable issue. The promotion of the ‘Yevsektsiya’. To see the antisemitic propaganda in motion, and to understand the intent, here is the headline from the Socialist Worker:
Here, the explicit aims of JVL are set out in the headlines. The article goes on to ‘big-up’ JVL. The group was created to deflect accusations of antisemitism. The same core reason for the creation of the Yevsektsiya in 1918. If you know an anti-Israel activist, any of them, go and look at their social media pages. You will see it full of promotional material about the modern Labour Party Yevsektsiya. Legitimisers of Jew-hate.
Ending this antisemitism
Labour has an antisemitism problem. A problem it cannot even begin to address until the groups at the root of the attacks are rejected. About 300 people packed the hall at the JVL launch, to welcome the latest version of the Yevsektsiya to the political world. The vast majority were not Jewish. That non-Jewish crowd that came to seek legitimacy for their own hatred – inherently antisemitic.
The two union bosses, Unite union general secretary Len McCluskey and Aslef train drivers’ union president Tosh McDonald, both of who turned up at the event to promise their union’s affiliation with a hate group – antisemitic. Placing a microphone in front of Idrissi to artificially amplify the group’s voice- antisemitic. Hiding behind these Jews, promoting them, using them as a way of attacking other Jews, all antisemitic.
It is why the atmosphere at the conference was so bad. Only when this is understood and dealt with, only when the ‘it’s kosher to boycott Israel’ banners no longer appear at each Labour rally, can Labour move on. Labour needs, as a first step, to forcefully reject JVL, the group’s members and everything that the group stands for.
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183 thoughts on “History repeating: Jewish Voice for Labour, today’s Yevsektsiya”
“Labour has an antisemitism problem.”
Certainly has. AntiLabour lobbyists switch the definition to attack it…… don’t they, Dave?
If you are implying Labour isn’t antisemitic then you are deaf dumb and blind.
OPPOSITION TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL = DEATH TO THE JEWS.
There are FIFTY muslim nations.
ONE FOR THE JEWS.
Anyone who opposes the survival of the ONE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL is standing lips-to-buttocks to those would AGAIN liquidate Jews.
This got cut off from the last paragraph:
“Anyone who opposes the survival of the ONE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL is standing lips-to-buttocks to those would AGAIN liquidate Jews. …
And if you stand with the enemies of Israel, be prepared to pay the price with them.”
Feinman – if what you’ve just written isn’t inciting violence then I don’t know what is. It’s also sickeningly distorted. Opposition to the state of Israel does not = death to the Jews. As Mike rightly says further down this thread, you’re ranting nonsense.
Europe is Killing itself.
I think he states the obvious Jane. I can’t speak for people outside Israel but here we take a dim view of anyone that seeks our elimination and threatens it practically. AntiZios, antisemites, its all just Jew hating to us. Luckily we have a demonstrable track record of responding robustly to any such attempts and we succeed. That’s been the difference since 1948. We’re in charge of us now and our opponents hate it. You can probably put old Mikey in that camp judging by his efforts here. Bloody amateurs.
Devastating expose of this insidious movement . Should be prescribed reading for anyone wishing to understand the phenomenon of antizionist Jews who have no connection to Judaism.
Well let’s have a look at the JLM……….
Affiliated to the WZO that pumps hundreds of thousands of pounds every year into the Israeli colonising project.
Signed up to the Jerusalem Declaration whose reason for being is the settlement of ” Eretz Israel”
Affiliated to the Zionist Federation who brought us Mordechai Kedar who advises that the best way to deter “ terrorists” is the rape of their mothers and sisters.
That declares the Israeli Labor Party, the father of the colonising enterprise, to be its “ sister party”.
The Party whose leader says……
“We will not sit in the same government as the Joint List I don’t see any [connection] between us.”
“ There is no need to remove settlements as part of a peace agreement”
“ The Arabs have to be afraid of us”
“The settlement [project] was and remains the beautiful and devoted face of Zionism,”
“For us, the Jordan Valley was and will remain Israel’s eastern security buffer. And security requires settlement,”
“ The Jordan Valley will always be part of The State of Israel”
In other words no two state solution.
Whose last leader declared is worst nightmare is that one day Israel will one day have an Arab Prime Minister and that “ we must not be seen as Arab lovers”
Whose last but one leader declares “ to say the Labor Party is left wing is an historic wrong”
The JLM that is an integral part of the LP hard right.
Whose anti socialist leader played a major part in organising and arranging the funding for a concerted attempt to bust a Trade Union by having it branded as institutionally anti-Semitic and saddling it with £600k of legal costs.
Who , in the process, got labelled by the Emplyment Tribunal,,,
“ a liar”
With “ a worrying disregard for plurality and diversity”
Whose Director is the horrible little thug, Ella Rose.
I forgot you mention……You have to be Jewish to be a mamber of JVL. You don’t have to be Jewish to be be a member of JLM, and many, probably most aren’t.
So what David represents as ” mainstream Jews”, are being represented by a bunch of goyim.
I ignored your rant on JLM. Not of interest to me. As for JVL, you don’t have to be Jewish to be a member of JVL.
I corrected that but the correction didn’t appear.Got my J’s the wrong way round o:)
You do have to be Jewish to be a full member of JVL , voting rights etc.
Well I didn’t ignore your rant against JVL. Further, I don’t scribble for you. You have a well established tendency not to be interested in realities that you find inconvenient. Others may well be interested in the reality of your favoured ” representatives” of Jews in the LP.
I know you corrected it Stephen, so I edited the error for you and deleted the second comment. Much neater. Take it as a mark of respect. Didn’t think it was worth pointing out.
You don’t have to be Jewish to be a full member of JVL, unless of course you ‘buy’ into the whole self-defining crap. Non Jews who are telling Jews how to define being Jewish. My basic point stands true however you look at it – If you could wave a magic wand and turn every Jew into a JVL type Jew, within two generations a people who have existed for millennia would be done. Some may think it a good thing, I consider it communist style genocidal antisemitism. Wipe out the ‘internal Jew’, because there is no belief in a physical one.
Well thanks for the correction. Much appreciated.
Well you know the saying two Jews three opinions, that presumably would include on the question of what is a Jew.
Here’s a tip. Whenever someone refers to Goyim , it shouts antisemite as in The Goyim Know. For someone who prides himself in sailing close to the wind, you fall short when you give the game away in this fashion . I guess there are times when the bile is so great it spills over and suppresses the need to avoid the obvious .
In any case it’s irrelevant. We know what you are and more to the point you do too.
I’m sure somewhere in the foul recesses of the world you inhabit you even use the triple parentheses. But we claimed that as our own little’ I am Spartacus moment ‘
That wouldn’t be an off topic personal attack would it Harv? o:)
Harv I am running out of ways of telling you this. you seem to have some kind of learning disability.
I don’t care.
But summoning up as much quasi caring as I can muster, my use of the expression would only indicate that I am a self hating goy. Ha ha ha ha @me
Anyway Harv your assumption that I would seek tips from a loud mouthed far right racist is, well let us just call it fanciful
What you tell me is of no concern.
You are not self hating . Far from it. You love yourself for the Jew baiting exercise you so revel in . You post here courtesy of a decent man who has every right to kick your sorry arse into the long grass but chooses not to in the interest of free speech. However your contributions simply foul up an otherwise exemplary blog . You are nothing but a troll . I have more respect for the haters who actually leave their computers to go toe to toe.
Your use of the word Goy reflects how you believe Jews perceive non Jews ie in derogatory terms . If you took the time to read the biblical term it refers to those of the other nations. The rest of your comment is just the usual lies and provocations expected from a pisher like you
Just exposing one of your many lies that you write in support of your goal to exterminate Israel and the Jews.
Your “rape quote” from Kedar is refuted here:
“In July 2014, he said that threats to kill or imprison terrorists are an ineffective deterrent stating: “the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught.”
A further joint statement by Kedar and Bar-Ilan University further clarified his point, stating “he did not call and is not calling to fight terror except by legal and moral means,” and that Kedar “wanted to illustrate that there is no means of deterring suicide bombers, and using hyperbole, he gave the rape of women as an example. In order to remove all doubt: Dr. Kedar’s words do not, God forbid, contain a recommendation to commit such despicable acts.
The intention was to describe the culture of death of the terror organizations. Dr. Kedar was describing the bitter reality of the Middle East and the inability of a modern and liberal law-abiding country to fight against the terror of suicide bombers.” Dr. Kedar wrote an article about this issue. On Rape, the Culture of Shame – and Radio Interviews”
Wow a video from Al Sleezera, the voice of Al Queda and ISIS.
At least now we know where your sympathies lie.
Yevsektsiya (Jewish section of the Soviet Bolshevik/Communist party) declared Hebrew language to be “reactionary (i.e. anti-progressive) language”. They declared Yiddish as “the language of the Jewish working class”. They indeed forced Habima theater (which staged shows in Hebrew) to leave Moscow and Russia in 1926.. Habima eventually settled in Tel Aviv in 1928. A reference to the Yevsektsiya fight against Hebrew:
You’re ranting nonsense, Feinman.. Ask Nurse for your meds. It’s probably time anyway.
Nurse ….. NURSE!
Of course Labour isn’t anti-semitic. They have an aversion, not to the state of Israel, but to its brutal, law-flouting actions. You are as one of the citizens in ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’. Too witless or too frightened to think or speak the truth lest you be accused of self-loathing. You are a prisoner of the Zionists.
“I edited the error for you and deleted the second comment.” Re-writing history? How unusual.
I am sure Stephen is more than capable of airing his own criticism. If he objects, I can re-instate the error, and untrash the second comment. As it is, he responded with ‘much appreciated’… so there you go…
I have no criticism it was much appreciated. It was rather a mess.
I observed that which you did, and bore in mind Israel’s ‘History’.
“Your use of the word Goy reflects how you believe Jews perceive non Jews ie in derogatory terms .”
I suggest that you read posts on Jewish websites. You will find that pro-Israelis use the term often.
This “Jew baiting” is response to a site that seeks to expand the term ‘antisemitism’ to include anything that doesn’t love Israel or Jews to bits. They are entirely different things. Most Jews prefer NOT to live there.
Where Dave does score is that he doesn’t forbid opposite viewpoint comments on his blog as many other Jewish sites do with gusto. I respect him for that.
So you’re a Jew-baiter Mikey ??
Is this a full time job or just something you so in your spare time?
Mike – Do I need to give you a lesson on Hebrew/Yiddish?
Goy is the singular name for a ‘member of the host nation’ Goyim is the plural. It is never the word that is offensive, but simply the way it is said. Every language has similar words in case you have never noticed. Here in England the word foreigner can be said in a dozen different ways. In German ‘auslander’ can easily be misconstrued as derogatory. So, let’s all be grown up about this.
As for your final comment, you will note that most Jews, like the Goyim, try to live near their children and grand-children. In France, whole families are moving to Israel. What do you make of that?
Great piece as ever David. I think we can begin to see a pattern in the strength of your position and the shift old Bellers is having to put in on behalf of his paymasters in order to dilute the impact. I see you’ve even managed to attract a new sock puppet today although Mikey does seem a little obvious. With the elevation of your profile I wonder if they’ve got anyone left to stake out the other sites that oppose Jew baiting.
Anyway must dash. It’s the Over 60s, Zio-Nazi Genocidalist Tea Dance this afternoon and those rock buns won’t jam themselves.
Think you’ll be disappointed tonight, Ian. Think it’s Jews only, like the settlements. There’ll be no Palestinian farmers there for you to throw the rock-cakes at, and you’ll suffer from the heat wearing all those IDF stormtrooper outfits.
Suggest cold tea and s-l-o-w dancing. Have sport!
Good to know Mikey. We religious extremists would never encourage mixed dancing. Where would it lead? As for the IDF kit, the latest line in baby battering chic features some cutting edge technical textiles allowing all day freshness “keeping your occupational forces dry even when their critics are wet”.
Oh Harv I went toe to toe for a total of 9 months in the Jordan Valley. Don’t tell me about toe to toe.
Sauntering into Hendon Town Hall and scoffing all the biscuits is not going toe to toe sunshine.
“Toe to toe ” eh? Wonder if one of my apartheid, imperialist kids was fortunate enough to acquaint your fearless battle hardened extremities with the business end of a Tavor during your tour of duty. If you’re of a certain age maybe I did. You weren’t that little pale fella with the ‘tache and the box fresh keffiyeh were you?
Three tours of duty Ian.
Wow! I think that gets you some coupons from Hanan Ashrawi and a set of traffic lights named after you on the main drag in Nablus. Stab a granny and they give you a multi storey car park in Jenin (EU funded natch.)
Again, you confuse me with someone who cares where you’ve been and what you do.
Except Harv you brought the subject up so it was easy for me to become confused.
Ah, the peace-loving race.
This article comes as absolutely no surprise. Jewish history is littered with renegades going back to Joshua in the book of Judges. The 1st Jewish Rebellion of 66 ACE was marred by the Jews of Jerusalem who gave the names of the rebels to the Romans. In more recent times, there is the Board of Deputies in 1917 who went against the Balfour Declaration. What can we do? We cannot stop free thinking, but we can educate the Jewish people that have ‘joined the other side’.
Religious? You’re a Bible believer?
Love the dance joke, “lead”. 😉
No, I am not religious. The bible is the only reference I have if you must know.
…. and you believe that which you read in the Bible? ….. all of it?
Lead the terrorist Irgun(Deir Yassim butchers) and they make you PM … plus name a boulevard after you.
Better than coupons.
That’s us Mikey. Cut throat barbarians one and all, slaughterers of the innocent, oppressors of the weak, torturers of little babies and old grannies and all round nogoodnicks. And do you think I’ve had so much as parking meter named after me?
Have care, Ian … admitting what Israelis really do will have you branded a self-hater.
You used a term “Jew-baiter”. Quaint. It would help this intercourse if you were to provide the dictionary from which you use these terms. If you could also indicate how many pages are used for the word ‘antisemitic’ it could an entertaining eye-opener.
Only just getting started Mikey. Making raspberry jam from the entrails of our dismembered foes ranks alongside golf, baking and soft porn as one our more popular regional pastimes. We love it so no need to worry about self hatred whatever that means. If you re-read your own posts here you’ll see that you characterized yourself as a Jew baiter. I just wondered whether it was a full time job or just a hobby. What do you say?
The 1st Jewish Rebellion of 66 ACE was marred by the Jews of Jerusalem who gave the names of the rebels to the Romans?
So, even then people told tales on terrorists.
Get real. This discussion site should be constructive, not sarcastic.
“In France, whole families are moving to Israel. What do you make of that?” Fine, they’ll find it expensive. Better I suppose than settling in the West Bank. That would be illegal, but cheaper with gov. subsidies.
No lessons on dead languages please, Latin at school was painful enough.
Full marks for your commitment to the part Mikey. I know some say that its the participation that counts but its all a bit obvious and transparent with the open ended questions and the point inversions. We’ve had better here and in any event Bellers is our PTR (Preferred Troll in Residence). I’m sure you could ask David to put you on the waiting list if you’re at a loose end with your Jew baiting shtick.
What a weird reply. Is there anyone on this site that can reply like a mature grown-up?
To which comment are you referring? Nothing strike a note, a memory, a realisation?
I say that it was yourself that characterised or mapped me to ‘Jew-hater’.
Since when has questioning propagandist lobbying been considered a hobby, Ian? It’s a calling.
No need for bait, Ian. A question to Dave on his blog brings others of his sect crawling out of the woodwork to fight his corner.
“We’ve had better here …”? That must have been a painful experience for you all.
Nice admission Mike. Given the full disclosure I’m interested to know how you become a Jew baiter. Is there some sort of correspondence course or are you time served? I wonder if there’s any sort of grant funding for applicants? Did you have to pay your own way. Is the qualification accredited? David may want to see your CV. There are standards here you know. he doesn’t accept any old Jew Baiting riff raff.
Thankyou for your opinion, Edward. It will be filed.
File it under “Eternal Nakba”.
Europe hasn’t just elected an looney!
“its all just Jew hating to us”
If that’s what your script says then. You’re a fantasist, Ian. Life must be really exciting for you.
I live in the Jewish State from the river to the sea Mikey. What could be more exciting. This is what victory looks like.
Ah, all that deceitful Zionist propaganda. So, you’re not victims…. you’re victors. Must irk you though, sharing Israel with Muslims, Christians …. Eastern Europeans etc.
Call it what you like Mikey. I’m looking at it now and it’s amazing. Everyone’s welcome as long as they’re happy living in the Jewish State. Not too keen on your tone though. Are you a racist as well as a Jew Baiter? When do you find the time? First Jews, now Muslims, Christians, Eastern Europeans. It must be exhausting.
David, you stated that Labour “needs, as a first step, to forcefully reject JVL, the group’s members and everything that the group stands for”. Are you explicitly calling for JVL’s expulsion from the Labour party?
Amazing – This site has attracted a pile of amateur wits who are not funny, not constructive and as far as I am concerned, not welcome.
Zionism is being dragged in to the cesspit of ignorance because a bunch of left-wingers feel that Zionism is a representation of their opposition, the right-wing. Wrong. If there is a blame game going on, just look at the insane leadership of the West Bank and Gaza and let’s deal with the real issue. Corrupt governments. All this B….s…. about Jews being genocidal is left-wing crap.
Dear Mr. Kay,
I refer to your comments as below:
‘Full marks for your commitment to the part Mikey”
Have you nothing better to do or, do you find treating this topic cathartic? Get a life and come back to me when you have found a bit of depth and meaning to all of this. Let me share something with you.
In 1974, Norther Cyprus was invaded by Turkey and the whole area annexed off from the remainder of Cyprus. Every Greek Cypriot that owned property in N. Cyprus, lost it. No compensation, no support from the left-wing, no boycotting of Turkish goods, no boycotting of Turkish academics, no appeals to the UN, no rallies in support of the Greek Cypriots…..need I go on?
I await your reply, if you have one.
Dear Mr Abramov
I am pleased to address your direct request for clarification relating to points made to another correspondent in this thread.
In relation to this it had been noted that the substance of the posts submitted by the aforementioned and the tone in which they were presented were contrary to my own opinions on the subject matter presented by the author above and seemingly designed to demean and demoralise herein. I am informed by media response experts that the respondent is generally characterised as a sock puppet troll who insinuates him or herself into comment sections of this type in order to disrupt the thread, deflect the flow and promote an inaccurate emphasis onto the process.
As a serious and sincere supporter and admirer of the author I chose to address the presence of this respondent with posts of my own using the devices of satire and post ironic aphorism.
It is of some regret to me that this has been ill received and misinterpreted and a little irritating that I now have to break character to explain these tactics to you in this way.
In terms of your instructional notes on 20th century Cypriot history I remain unclear on the point of this narrative but suggest that we do not bother ourselves with another pointless distraction.
I trust that this elaboration is satisfactory and remain
P.S. If you wish to enact some repetition of this high handed pomposity I suggest you target your remarks on opponents in future rather than engage in friendly fire.
Ok. Let’s be ‘constructive’. They were terrorists. Factual, not sarcasm … if you hold to Israel’s view of ‘rebels’.
Amateur? Yes … not funded as Dave is.
So, unsupportive commernts and replies to Mike Abramov are not welcome. Is that ‘mature’?
I’m no supporter of Abbas’s fawning to Israel nor the murderous history of both Hamas and the IDF.
Israel is happy with the current situation as it creeps its way over land that could be the Palestinian state. It plays Abbas and squeezes the Gazan population ensuring Hamas returns its beligerence in order to portay Israel as a victim of terrorism. Remember …. terrorism was used as a catalyst to bring about the state of Israel.
David is not funded. And why the persistent use of Dave?
Reply to the ‘other’ Mike
So, unsupportive commernts and replies to Mike Abramov are not welcome. Is that ‘mature’?
Mature? I have spent the last 40 years listening to a barrage of hatred, anger, amateur judicial suggestions going back to the days of Free Angela Davies about the Jewish homeland. I am sick to the death of the sarcasm on this site when Jews in Israel have to constantly look over their shoulder to avoid being stabbed or bombed. You English live in a very care free land.
Ian, sharks are a sub-group of fish. Were one to attempt to catch them non-sharks would not be targetted. Understand?
‘Hatred’ of sharks couldn’t be characterized as ‘hatred’ of fish. Understand?
Given Dave’s own widening of the term ‘antisemitism’ many people could find Dave labelling them ‘Jew Haters’, but first let him complete the many volumes defining ‘antisemitism’. His current life’s work.
Sounds like you’ve been overdoing it on the Discovery Channel this afternoon. How does this help with your Jew Baiting role? You’re not saying sharks are Jewish? Are you saying that the depths of the Med are occupied Arab territory? What next, genocidal mackerel, apartheid settler eels?
Ian, Mike, am I witnessing an example of what may appear in Dave’s future tome as an example of ‘Jew Hatred’ or is it just a tiff you’re having?
I think that with your self professed expertise in Jew Baiting you may be better qualified to answer this than me. Did you always want to be a Jew Baiter? When you had your careers evening at school was there a stall? “So Mikey, from your predicted grades we can only recommend Mechanic, Insurance or Jew Baiting.”
Would you prefer ‘subsidised’ to ‘funded’, Mr Collier?
Would ‘Davebt’ be preferred?
My name is clearly David, I would prefer it if you used it.
No need for the discovery channel, we watch the BBC. Best broadcaster in the world. Superb.
Of course. I shall.
Sir._ I am amazed by the idiots who respond to David’s blog. Who cares whether I believe in the Bible or not. What matters is that the Jewish homeland is being pilloried by all and sundry despite a dozen other countries with civil and political issues. What also matters is that the snti-Israel idiots are supposed to be the voice of the beleaguered Palestinians. It’s no wonder the Palestinians are constantly on the back foot.
Good point, Mike.
But then I’m not the one trying to re-brand it as the Jewish State and clear others from living there. My Mum’s not Jewish. Is that ok?
Lucky for her Mikey. Wouldn’t want you baiting her.
This site is about sorting out the wheat from the chaff. I need to be absolutely clear who supports Israel and who doesn’t. I am therefore most grateful for your frank and candid reply.
In a nutshell, we are comrades in arms.
Jews in Israel do NOT have to look over their shoulder any more than Palestinian farmers and villagers have to in the occupied territories.
Jews in the occupied territories look over their shoulders as they are illegally settling up on land that is not theirs.
Lucky for both Mum and I certainly.
Really! The Palestinian weapon of choice is the knife. The forced insertion of a 9inch blade is not only very painful, but often bloody and revolting to look at. It is always tragic that anyone dies violently, but often the Palestinians bring on their own death with martyrdom.
“The Palestinian weapon of choice is the knife.”
Obviously. Think they’ve turned down the offer of over $3.5 billion annually of free advanced weaponry that the US(that impartial, unbiased peace broker) was willing to give them to match that given lovingly to Israel.
It’s even more tragic when over 500 innocent Gazan children are blasted to death within the space of 6 weeks.
‘It’s even more tragic when over 500 innocent Gazan children are blasted to death within the space of 6 weeks.’
This argument is constantly regurgitated.
Billions of dollars pour in to Gaza every year. Where has it gone in to? I can tell you where it has not gone.
It has not gone in to schools, hospitals, housing,, an infra-structure for the people to live by….but, tunnels to smuggle weapons in, building a useless shopping mall and a pointless 7 star hotel in Gaza City. ……..but, no air-raid shelters. Is that why 500 children died? Is it that they had no where to retreat to while their ‘leaders’ put their feet up by a swimming pool in Qatar.
Mike Abramov – your said, ‘Jews in Israel have to constantly look over their shoulder to avoid being stabbed or bombed.’ Be careful. You wouldn’t want the Israeli Tourist Board to hear you saying that.
Good point……. But the tourist board already knows.
Then perhaps they shouldn’t tell the would-be tourists or the industry might collapse.
Fantastic news Jane. You’ve no need to worry. In the first half of this year tourism rose by 26% generating revenues of NIS 9.6bn for the Jewish State. These are record levels for incoming tourism here with 303,000 arriving in June alone. They love us !!
On a less propagandist note, perhaps unusual here, this means that whilst some Arabs choose to go out and enact bloody violence against our civilian population others continue to run their stores and restaurants alongside their Jewish friends and neighbours in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Netanya, Haifa and Tiberius taking advantage of the opportunities that this tourist boom has presented to us all. Not a great story for the activists but that’s how it is.
I’m delighted to hear that, Ian. But Mike Abramov said (in above comment) that ‘Jews in Israel have to constantly look over their shoulder to avoid being stabbed or bombed. You English live in a very care free land.’ Happily Ian I believe your version. Abramov’s wild exaggeration is a bit of an ‘own goal’.
No looking over our shoulders anymore Jane. This is the start up nation after all and we Israelis are a clever bunch. Our OAPs and young mums now have wing mirrors on their zimmers and buggies so that they can see an Arab stabber coming from 20 yards. There’s even a handy pouch for a pepper spray so that we don’t have to kill as many of them when they attack. Israelis; the most moral victims of terror in the world eh?
If Israelis are the most moral anything it’s a wicked world, Ian.
It is a wicked world Mike. It is why even beyond ‘rights of identity and determinism’, Zionism was such a necessity. Do you look around at the world and think – ‘ooh, this is a nice place, everyone is so friendly’? Can you point me to the nation that EITHER hasn’t spilt shed-loads of blood OR isn’t dependent on the umbrella of a nation that has? Events of the 20th century put the question of Zionism to bed. Do Jews need a state of their own? -Yes. Period. Not to be better than anyone else, but because the nations of the world cannot give safe haven to the ‘other’ within them. Every now and again, they all go crazy and kill loads of people. Ergo – to support their basic right to life, Jews have a right to / need a state of their own *WITHOUT* any expectation / necessity that they will not be as crappy as any other state.
Wild exaggeration of what Jane?
But the tourist board won’t publish that on the world wide web is the point! Duh.
No need Mikey. We let the Habibi C do the reporting. Luckily they always blame us for summarily executing the Arab murderers so all the tourists continue to come. God bless Aunty Beeb and long may her reporting be bias and skewed. Priceless PR !
Ian – I remain embarrassed that I misconstrued your pro-Israel comments. You are certainly a great advocate for the only democracy in the ME.
Let the embarrassment lie with our opponents who will live and die fighting a war that we won 70 years ago.
But the Arabs in the occupied territories can’t vote in the election of those that rule them, yet Israelis in those terriitories can. That isn’t democracy.
Nobody’s perfect Mikey. At least the Israeli Arabs at the highest levels our our judiciary, police, armed forces, Knesset and business are ensuring that we’re all in this together in trying to get there. Sorry for peeing on your parade again.
and in further response to Mike’s comment (28.10) above and on a slightly less belligerent note, the Arabs of the West Bank have their own elections to vote in. These were last held in 2005 (Presidential) or 2006 (Parliamentary). The Arabs of these areas are ruled by the PA and the lack of local elections is a matter for the PA.
Tut, tut, Peach. You know well that the Palestinians are policed by the PA but are still ruled by Israel. Israeli troops can at any time do whatever they want in all of the areas of the Palestjnian territories. PA collusion is the reason that Hamas is so well supported.
No it isn’t. ‘The reason’, if any such single entity exists, was internal corruption. Like any leadership, Fatah were primarily judged on the inability to provide for their people. As the leaders lined their own pockets, and the population suffered, Hamas worked by providing food and social support to the needy. Hezbollah worked the same way. If you want a similar style of SOCIAL operation (no other parallel is being drawn)in Israel, Shas were very good at this in the 1990’s. They worked in poor neighborhoods and built up solid support amidst a traditional, but not overtly religious, community.
You are typical of the anti-Israel activist in the way you dehumanise the Palestinians. They don’t vote with their flag, or for some ‘greater good’ (as you perceive it), they (as a whole), like all of us, think of family, food, job. It is why the external BDS movement is so vile. Created by people who hate Israel, on the back of imaginary support from the general Palestinian population. One day, books will be written about how this conflict was perpetuated almost entirely by external forces. You are one of those forces. Mazal tov.
It’s BBC truth that so worries your ilk.
What are you saying, that their’s is different to everyone else’s?
I knew it !!
You must be dizzy with spinning, Ian!
The truth, Ian, is ALWAYS the truth.
The BBC, to me, is the more trusted messenger of it, Ian. Many pro-Israelis lobby against it.
So Mikey, according to you there’s truth and BBC truth. Come on which one is it?
Thank you, Mike.
Thanks “This argument is constantly regurgitated.”
Às I’ve said, the truth is always the truth. Hence it endures.
Less welfare pours into Gaza than into Israel. Any infrastrucure built in Gaza will be the first target of Israel’s attrition on the enclave, it always is.
What use are shelters against sophisticated US donated weaponry? These children die because, like Assad, Israel has no qualms in bombing crowded civilian areas in order to take out fighters.
It’s fascinating having you here Mikey. As you have already admitted, you are a Jew Baiter and therefore wholly predictable in your approach. This seems to be entirely based upon the rehashing of the traditional Jew Baiting tropes almost as if you have been given the activists playbook and are determined to go through it by the numbers. There is no imagination and no deviation just the regular Jew Baiting shtick. “blah blah, genocide…blah blah occupation..blah blah child murderers…blah, blah, blah..” Even our Preferred Provider of Trollery, Bellers has the wit to mix it up a bit to earn his crust. You’ve just taken the view, or been told to take the view that less is more. Big news son; Jew Baiting is a precise science and you seem to have flunked the course. If you’re going to get a rise out of your audience you need to up your game, particularly if this is going to be your thing. At the moment its all too easy.
As you have already admitted, you are a Jew Baiter ?
I think you are confused, Ian.
Oh come on Mikey, you wrote it yourself further up the thread. I advise you re-read your own posts. If you don’t want to be defined as a Jew Baiter, don’t define yourself as a Jew Baiter. Common sense, wouldn’t you agree?
You lack comprehension, Ian. I said the truth is ALWAYS the truth.
I believe ‘BBC truth’ is much more likely to align with it than ‘Israeli truth’.
So three truthes now. You can understand why I’m struggling. Are you saying we can pick and choose the one that fits the best; sometimes the BBC Truth, other times the Real truth?
Whilst on the subject of truth. You’ll like this – http://mytruth.org.il/ They’re terrific. It may even open the eyes of self proclaimed Jew Baiter like you Mikey.
My friend, your opinion is driven by sentiment. Bite the bullet and accept that Gaza is run by legitimised thugs who are homophobic, tribal and corrupt. Hamas started both wars that resulted in the loss of so many innocent people.
How did Gaza start Cast Lead and Protective Edge, Mike?
Mikey, we know you have a role to play here and you’ve certainly committed to it. But even the most crass and inexperienced of anti-Israel activists would have too much professional integrity to ask that question. It just marks you out as an amateur with poor grasp of the issues. A tip would be to focus on the normal tropes like the IDF targeting children, claims of genocide and imperialist oppression with maybe a hint of huge prison camp and Nazi occupiers. At least you’ll get the respect of your Jew Baiting peers for those accusations and slurs.
‘How did Gaza start Cast Lead and Protective Edge, Mike’?’
Hamas has a military wing called Islamic Jihad. They have specialised in acquiring and firing Qassam rockets in to Southern Israel, specifically Sedorot. The sirens went off in Sedorot as many as 5 or 6 times a day. The children were scrambled in to air raid shelters but, not all were saved. Some were killed, some lost limbs. Israel, on both occasions issued 3 warnings that if the shelling of Israel did not stop, Israel would come in.. Leaflets were then dropped in to Gaza to tell the people that Israel was going to come in as all 3 warnings were ignored by Hamas.
Despite Israel agreeing a ceasefire with Hamas, Islamic Jihad in both 2009 and 2014 ignored the ceasefire and fired more rockets in to Israel. The question is does Islamic Jihad operate separately from Hamas, or not? The answer is no. Hamas and Islamic Jihad do not care about the people of Gaza because all they want is victory at any cost.
Does that answer your question?
Mike, I fear that ‘questions’ posed by Mikey and those like him that visit here are rather rhetorical and certainly never intended to initiate serious debate. It is just the baiting implement of a self confessed Jew Baiter. Frankly you could walk him into a house in Khan Younis and ask him to watch the Hamas terrorists launch rockets through the retractable flat roof sections in childrens’ bedrooms (this happened) and then kill the female residents that were not prepared to stand on the roof tops to deter Israeli bombardiers and it would make not one jot of difference to his opinion on Jews and Israel. He and his like are closed minded to anything other than their own versions of events, mostly cultivated from a distance of 2500 miles away and almost always on sympathetic social media channels. So when he makes a post and asks a question I assure you that the last thing he wants is an answer.
Sorry, not Gaza. Meant Hamas.
Yes, Ian. Very nice.
We all have our views and perceptions of what is true and what is not not true in anything we encounter. In each situation there are truths. Both yourself and I will have perceptions as to the truths in that situation. Neither of us may be correct.
We must trust to an extent the source or sources of the information on such situation. It’s the most we can do.
“What is true and what is not not true…..”
I wasn’t confused before. I am now.
I never thought I’d say it but for Pete’s sake, David Collier, write another bog so we can move on from this one!
I meant ‘blog’ of course but come to think of it, ‘bog’ I should perhaps more fitting.
Ok…the drink isn’t getting to me…
Ian, Harvey introduced the term Jew Baiter in a reply to Stephen B.to describe his comments on this page.
I used Harvey’s description, in quotes “”, in a reply to himself. Nowhere did I characterize myself as being such.
Convinced now that your ‘confusion’ is evidence of a more basic lack.
Thankyou for confirming my diagnosis, Ian.
I seek no medals, Ian, Mike, or whatever your Name* is on the page.
Bog. An even better description of the page, Jane.
Come on Mikey make the effort. You’ve gone from self promoting Jew Baiter with a modicum of personal pride in your work, to playground idiot in just a few days. Even the most amateur of trolls, fresh from Troll School have more in their locker than simply calling a site a “bog”. It’s just not good enough is it. Think about it. You should be actively demeaning us now, demoralising the author, distracting the readership and deflecting from the core purpose of the site. They call it the 4 Ds at Sock Puppet Central. You’re not doing any of those things. In fact your periodic engagement is actually helping David with his site metrics and contributing positively to his search marketing strategy. I think your mates in the tap room at the Jew Baiter and Anchor may consider this as friendly fire. Cheers!
Are you a drinker, Ian?
Not sure that David would appreciate your description of those who don’t agree with him on his blog as ‘trolls’.
There you go Mikey; a legitimately demeaning remark . That’s more like it. Tea, no sugar if you’re offering.
As neither you nor I represent David or his opinions in any capacity I think we have relatively free reign insofar as we do not fall foul of moderation, don’t you?
“Amateur Troll” was the full description. We don’t want you getting ahead of yourself do we?
What’s this? Given up on Jew Baiting and now playing around with word association Mikey? That was a short lived career. Between you and me though it’s probably for the best. In all honesty, you were a bit sub-par.
You mistook my comment on ‘antisemitism’ as groundbait, Ian, and slipped out of the reeds to nibble.
You’ve been snagged on something for quite a few days now, entirely your own fault.
So you’re an antisemite as well Mikey. Well I can’t say I’m surprised. I assumed that this was a fundamental requirement when they advertised for a Jew Baiter. As a matter of idle curiosity do you actively bait other religious, or ethnic minorities or do you just restrict yourself to Jews?
Are you for real mate?
Putting it another way, Hamas has p_ss_d away billions of dollars, built tunnels with much needed cement for housing and in the meanwhile, when the wars kicked off, went to Qatar to lay in the sun sipping cocktails.
Bite the bullet, Hamas do not care and have never cared for it’s people because if they did, they would have been at the negotiating table by now.
I find your account of the Gaza ‘wars’interesting, Mike.
Sderot? Wasn’t Sderot built on the land that once contained Najd, a Palestinian village, which was destroyd by Jewish militia and the inhabitants ethnically cleansed by being driven into Gaza? Why would that be the target of anything from Gaza?
Najd was just one of over 500 Palestinian villages to be cleared and destroyed by the rampant militia, all to ensure a Jewish majority in the new Zionist state.
Given that you mourn for children, you will appreciate the devastating loss of over 500 Palestinian children in just the last destructive Israeli attrition on the enclave, an almost dis-proportionate loss.
Not sure I agree with your account of the sparks that invited just two of the many attritions on Gaza.
Sir – I appreciate your natural bias for supporting the underdog, right or wrong. Where do we go with this.? Do I now mention the mass deportation of the Jews of the ME and N. Africa after 1948? Do I mention the day of mass murder of Jews in Iraq in 1941 known as the Fahud? Do I mention Hebron that was a Jewish city before 1948 and is now in Palestinian hands? Do I agree with you that the tragic death of 500 kids in Gaza is entirely Israel’s fault? Answer. No. No. No. No.
Get real. This is a state of war when one side is driven by a dream that is unobtainable (Naqba) and the other being Israel. A country that only gained this little piece of the ME through the UN,.That has 1.5 million Arabs living in it’s borders quite happily with equal rights, Gay rights and many other rights and that keeps them staying in Israel. Why?
Ian – I am very grateful for your support and in giving me a logical guide to this idiot known as Mikey. I have a lot of experience on Middle East Monitor with trolls. It depends what their question is. If they ask a simple question. I will give them a complicated answer and enjoy doing so. If they are rude, stupid or arrogant, I will tell them where they can put their question.
But there was mass ethic cleansing of Arabs from the area by Jewish militia..
You misrepresent my question re. the 500 child deaths.
The rights of Arabs in Israel is only equal on paper only. Very few Arabs obtain building permits and equal funding of education and development.
Is the dream of a state also unobtainable? It is if left to Israel’s theft and land lust.
I am not sure what you are taking if you think the ‘Nakba’ narrative holds in these parts. Within days of the passing of the Partition plan, Arabs had begun attacking Jews. In December of 1947, aware Arab armies could not invade whilst the British were still present, funding was arranged for ‘irregular support’ to infiltrate the region. By January, Arab irregular forces had begun to enter Palestine, and the attacks on Jewish convoys on the roads began to cause heavy Jewish casualties. As fighting increased in those early months, the Arab middle class simply fled. By March, even before the Jews went on the offensive, as many as 100,000 were meant to have left.
I am not sure what you wanted the Jews to do. With Arab forces infiltrating by January, and with the threat of the general invasion in May, do you have a problem with the fact the Jews fought back?
I wish yourself and Ian every happiness and comfort that your union can provide. Perhaps you can exchange Israeli narratives. Get your reasons sorted on the sparks that cause Isreli attritions.
Neat and inevitable sidestep of anything that prompts proper exchange Mikey; wouldn’t want anything to get in the way of your avowed mission of Jew Baiting would you?
I’ll leave the narrative to you. I’m an Israeli and here in the Jewish State we just deal in daily realities. We have proper Jew Baiters here. Not weedy wimps that do their thing from the anonymity of a social media comment section, thinking it matters. These ones pick up knives and screwdrivers and try to stab our grannies and young mums in the street. Quite a committed narrative eh Mikey? If you had a little more courage perhaps you might try something real. Lucky for the world you and the thousands like you will live and die as keyboard whiners and remain slightly less than a tiny tiny spec on the backdrop of our wonderful victory over our enemies and eternal Jew hating critics.
So, hundreds and hundreds of Arab villages weren’t destroyed by the Jewish milita, David ?
That’s what victory looks like Mikey. Crushing those that seek our destruction is our responsibility and we’re really skilled at it. It must be eating away at you.
The ‘Jewish Milita’? As in pre-May 1948? No, definitely not. You think the British, who were present until May, simply let one side freely destroy hundreds of villages? Once regional war broke out in May, I have little doubt that the areas containing irregular forces were deemed hostile by Israel. Villages inside the new state firing on the State’s forces? Do you have any example of a State that would accept such a situation? Once this happened in a war of survival, almost anything goes. Especially in a situation where Arab armies were attacking and you needed to ensure the supply lines remained intact. That is historical context you will never hear from an anti-Israel activist.
If you ask me if in *some* cases the Israeli army overstepped, cleansed some villages it shouldn’t, or committed some atrocities, I think there is obviously some merit to that. War, especially war back then, and more especially one that is for your right to survive, will always see excess. But that wasn’t the rule, and using some examples to suggest that this was Israel’s global strategy ignores far too many examples where that simply didn’t happen. The ‘Nakba’ was of Arab making – a battle they chose – and lost.
David you said: “The ‘Nakba’ was of Arab making – a battle they chose – and lost.” Sure, David, they ‘chose’ for colonialist Britain to give Palestine to the Zionists for a Jewish homeland, without the consent of the people living there, and who had lived there for generations. They ‘chose’ for the UN to come up with the Partition Plan (Res181) giving more than half the land, 85% of which was Palestinian owned, to the new Jewish state, even though Jews constituted only 7% of the population at that time. Who wouldn’t have rejected partition on that basis? Who would not have resisted? You think a majority of Palestinians who left simply ‘chose’ to walk away from their ancestral homes and villages, olive groves and orchards – to ‘opt’ to leave, as you say in another comment? You know as well as I do that it was always the Zionist intention to take over the maximum territory with the minimum Arabs, and they used terror to do it. They still do – though you certainly won’t admit to that.
Jane, you are (and I believe innocently) mixing and matching reality with distortion with outright propaganda. Firstly, I will address the 85% of land being Palestinian owned. This is not true. It is part of the disappearing map myth. Much of any land is state land, even more so, when so much of it is desert. They use the low Jewish owned amount in 1947 and rely on the implication that everything not Jewish owned was Palestinian owned. It wasn’t – the British held it, and when they left, it became Israeli State owned. Your 85% figure is entirely bogus. They also love saying they got more than half the land – because included in that of course was much of the desert…that’s just a nice sounding but deceptive sound-bite.
But onto the central point. Balfour wasn’t a two state solution, it was one state. And Britain controlled the Mandate. These are the cards the Arabs were dealt. The Partition didn’t arise from Balfour, in fact it took 18 years for the British to move from one state to two. The question needs to be asked why, if Balfour was a one state solution – did we end up with Partition as the obvious choice by the mid 1930’s? The answer to that is Arab violence against Jewish refugees fleeing persecution. Without that violence there is no partition. Imagine for a moment someone in the UK seeking out refugees and butchering them, because they are stealing homes, jobs and land. The age old cry against immigrants. Where would that place them on the political map? This is the politics you support when you support the Arab violence of the 1920’s & 1930’s. Far right, fascist & racist.
Looking at it through the lens of a growing Jewish militia is to ignore just what the militia was being developed in response to. The Hagana – the result of massacres in 1920 and 1921. The Irgun the result of the massacres in 1929. The later advent of Jewish terrorism against the British, as a result of the British closing their doors to Jews escaping the Nazis and eventually even taking Holocaust survivors and placing them into British concentration camps on Cyprus. Just imagine how many lives would have been saved if Britain had been able to open those borders in the 1930’s.
When you describe the Jews as intending to take over the territory, being given all the land they didn’t own, of magically inserting partition without explaining how it came about, you simply remove everything from context. By early 1948, Arab irregulars were streaming over the Syrian and Lebanese borders to begin the EXPLICITLY stated Arab destruction of the Jewish state. I am not sure what you think the Jews should have done by this point. By early 1948 the Jews would either win, or face a second genocide.
The Nakba was clearly a battle they chose and lost. Even if you believe they were justified in fighting it. Had they played their cards differently, it would have worked out much better for them. For 100 years they have been making decisions that have gone against them. They are still doing it. This is a conflict that should have been over in 1949. To point your finger at the Jews all the time, simply doesn’t explain why things look the way that they do.
No, Ian, they were villagers. Left with nowhere to live. Proud, eh?
They clearly had somewhere to live. The partition was into an Arab and Jewish state. For the most part, they chose to leave the Jewish state.
This from the Partition plan:
It seems as if they took that option.
…. and the parading of Deir Yassim survivors through the streets of Jerusalem on waggons?
Not sure what your point is. Even if true, are you saying that in the civil war, there were only such events on one side? The casualty figures do not agree with this assessment. Until May, I think the numbers were pretty even, which entirely explodes the whole Nakba narrative.
They were driven from their homes. Whoops, ………………….destroyed homes
again, even ignoring the ‘driven from’ comment I not sure what your point is. From the point the Arabs violently opposed Jewish immigration, Partition became inevitable. From the point that the Arabs vowed to destroy any Jewish state following partition, the civil & regional war became inevitable too. It seems you are only crying because the Jews won.
I am not sure where you get your information from. I think you are confusing Israeli Arabs from Palestinian Arabs. Please explain. Secondly, just because I am a Zionist does not mean I am not a humanitarian.
It appears you have run out of rebuttals.
To whom are your 3 recent postings directed, Ian?
To whom are your 3 recent postings directed, Mike A. .?
Oh shut up, Ian!
Now now Jane. You’re not at one of your Jew-hate events now where you pretend to care about the Arabs and shout down and evict any naysayers who challenge your pig ignorant extremist views. This is social media where we all have a sense of entitlement to have our very important opinions read by a perceived multitude.
David, how was Balfour a “one state” solution?
Balfour gave Jews A home IN Palestine. It did NOT give Jews the whole of Palestine. It was always Ben Gurion’s scheme to expand the fledging state further than envisaged by the UN. That scheme continues under Netanyahu currently, but the world appeases its actions with special treatment, fuelled by mentions of victimhood and the holocaust. Feeding on the suffering of others.
Most Zionists are Jews. Perhaps most Jews are Zionists, but Israel is NOT ‘the Jews’. Most Jews prefer to live elsewhere. Given Israel’s poor human rights record, constant referencing Israel as the Jewish state is sullying the label ‘Jewish’.
Good morning from the imperialist, expansionist Jewish State Mikey. Think I’ll put my genocidal, apartheid pursuits to one side today and hit the beach. Its unseasonally lovely and a great way for us Zio-Nazis to unwind before another stressful week of occupation and oppression. Full marks to Balfour for making all of this possible.
A few very strong Freudian slips there in your reply, Ian. Letting slip Israel’s lust for state expansion.
A few more in there too which will embarrass you on re-reading.
Ha! You took the expansionist bit from that Mikey? Less bothered about the genocidal apartheid loving ZioNazi oppression eh? I bet you are literally hilarious at dinner parties. Still at least your Jew Baiting extends to old Sigmund albeit post mortem so I suppose we’re all in good company.
After the first section of your capitulation I was embarrassed for you, Ian. You’d said enough. You know what I mean.
Feel better now? Cleansed, sort of?
Oh come off it Mikey. This is social media. Nobody cares what anyone else thinks about anything. We’re all too busy projecting our own opinions to worry about the pretend views of anonymous strangers. It makes me wonder if you are a real Jew Baiter or whether you were faking that as well.
But Ian, I never said that I was a Jew Baiter. The term was introduced to these posts by Harvey as an accusation to Stephen. You ran after and jumped on the bandwagon, labelling me a Jew Baiter. Seems you are unsure of your own thoughts now. Time for you to have another dring. Tea, of course.
Look Mikey, we know that you revisionists like to move the goalposts to suit your arguments but it’s a bit rich trying to skew your own words twice in the same thread. To be clear, how your fill your days is your own affair. I’m sure there are stranger hobbies and pastimes in the world than Jew baiting. I once met a bloke that collected comedy themed lamp shades. That was every bit as pointless. You are what you are. Why else would you be here?
Seems that you have little grasp of the English language and no common sense. You just keep repeating your provided mantra.
It’s never pointless to challenge attempted untruths on these blogs. If just a smidgen of truth enters your head that’s good.
My grasp of English is certainly limited Mikey. I’m an Israeli and as a resident of the Jewish State may struggle with some of your more labyrinthine Anglo contortions. Much of it is a tad subtle for me but I do know Jew Baiting when I read it so we’ll have no deflection from that point.
It’s obviously your limited understanding of the language that has led to your confusion re. Jew Baiting. Slow of you to recognise that.
“A battle of antisemitic wills took place, one under the flag of Nationalism, the other waving the ‘Red Banner’. One which sees Jews as a race of enemy aliens within, the other that sees Jewish identity, rather than the Jewish person, as the central threat.”
Not completely correct. Communists started from attacking Jewish identity. Twenty years later, they started attacking Jews as Jews. For many of these Jews the only Jewish identity they had was word “Jew” in the fifth line of their passports.
In 1953, Stalin prepared another Holocaust for Jews in the USSR. Only his death on Purim 1953 stopped that.
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