Justin Cohen from Jewish News has just done the Jewish community an enormous favour. He has created a piece for the historical record. A detailed and to-the-point interview with Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn in the midst of a crisis over antisemitism. All we needed to know about the man who wants to be Prime Minister is there for us to read. The conclusion is clear and inescapable. Our community and Jeremy Corbyn are incompatible. Jewish people in the United Kingdom need to fear Jeremy Corbyn ever receiving the keys to 10 Downing Street.
The nice Mr. Jeremy Corbyn
Jeremy Corbyn thinks he is saying all the right things. He speaks of anti-racism and of his willingness to fight antisemitism. Corbyn says he wants to meet with the Jewish Leadership Council and the Board of Deputies. He suggests he will improve the process investigating accusations of antisemitism against members. Corbyn speaks of a ‘two-state’ solution to the Middle East Peace Process. Jeremy Corbyn also says he regrets mistakes that he has made along the way and that he is concerned Labour MPs who supported the antisemitism rally last week have been abused. Jeremy Corbyn says a lot, and yet says nothing at all. To those who may be comforted by empty platitudes, perhaps he even hit the right notes a few times. Yet to those who understand the contradictions and the blatant insults, the interview would have been extremely worrying.
Hating a Jew for what he isn’t
As I have often pointed out, definitions of antisemitism built around ‘a hatred of Jews for what they are’ have it catastrophically wrong. Antisemitism is all in the *false* charges raised against Jews, or ‘hating Jews for what they are not’. God-killers, child-killers, global political controllers, carriers of genetic impurities, shysters and blood-suckers. Classic Christian antisemites did not hate the Jews because they went to Synagogue or fasted on Yom Kippur, they hated them because they stood falsely accused of deicide. Antisemitism is carried into the mainstream in the veins of falsehoods.
This is why it is almost impossible today to distinguish anti-Zionism from antisemitism. Read almost any anti-Israel propaganda site and it is instantly obvious that it is promoting racism and bigotry. Spreading through society today are untold falsehoods about how Jewish people behave in Israel.
This an example of a post from Facebook Group Palestine Live seven weeks ago:
Antisemites use the term ‘Zionist’ today instead of ‘Jew’, and call Zionists media controlling, money grabbing, child killers. They do this whilst everyone just shrugs and talks about legitimate criticism. It has become culturally permissible to make a racist attack against ‘Israelis’ in a manner that would be unacceptable against any other nationality. The anti-Zionist demonisation of Jewish Israelis has no limits. There is fake news being spread daily, turning a small, low intensity and complex conflict into an act of mindless brutality and genocide perpetrated by the all-powerful evil Zionists against an innocent, peace-loving Palestinian population. Who wouldn’t hate Jews, I mean Zionists? Which is where Jeremy Corbyn comes unstuck.
Jeremy Corbyn’s blind-spot
Jeremy Corbyn does not sit comfortably in the two-state solution camp at all. Many of his oldest political allies are anti-Zionists. People who do not believe in the Jewish right to self-determination and push fantasy tales about the origins of the conflict. The anti-Zionist propaganda against Jewish refugees arriving in British Palestine is material the far-right BNP would be proud of. This isn’t about post-1967 politics or Israeli settlement policy. If you start making up stories about Jewish refugees in order to demonise them, then you are certainly hating Jews for what they were not.
As the factual history of the conflict is for the most part sympathetic towards early Zionism, it is the historical roots that are attacked the most. It is why Rothschild conspiracy is so popular on sites like Palestine Live. It turns an effort to provide a safe haven for Jews into a manipulative plot by scheming Jewish masters. Anything that sees Jews as victims is attacked, so Holocaust denial is becoming fashionable in these circles. Where the stomach cannot digest something so vile, Zionists as active collaborators with the Nazis takes its place. Anything that dehumanises the Jews. Once this has been successfully absorbed, it becomes easy to suggest the bitter 1948 civil war was actually a one-sided rout by controlling, powerful, evil Zionists.
Those pushing these racist fictions are all Jeremy Corbyn’s ideological bedfellows.
The Palestinian cause
If you support the ‘Palestinian cause’ it does not mean you have ‘sympathy for the Palestinians’. Nor is it about just wanting them to have a state. As with any propaganda struggle, those on the hard-left want moderates to be confused by the ultimate goals. There is not a single serious pro-Palestinian movement in the UK that unequivocally supports a two-state solution. When you wave the Palestinian flag, you associate with the call ‘from the river to the sea’. A maximalist position that demands an end to the State of Israel.
Not only is this not going to happen, it is a demand that perpetuates the conflict. Which is why only the hard-left and terrorist groups support it. Supporting the ’cause’ weakens moderate Palestinian factions and strengthens extremist elements like Hamas. This is why Jeremy Corbyn referred to Hezbollah and Hamas as his ‘friends’. One of the major reasons that a peace deal has not been signed is because extremist (maximalist) pressure will not allow the ruling Palestinian factions to give away anything in negotiations. Even if there was a deal worthy of being signed (and many say there have been several), the Palestinian Leadership cannot sign it.
True friends of peace within Labour understand that the moderates need to be strengthened *and* made to understand that compromise is vital for peace. Jeremy Corbyn’s friends work alongside groups like Hamas to undermine peace talks.
This from a statement by Jeremy Corbyn’s spokesman two days ago:
There is also little more absurd than someone suggesting he opposes Zionism because he believes it contradicts his ‘universalist values’, whilst at the same time waving a flag of maximalist Palestinian nationalism.
Jeremy Corbyn and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC)
Which is why it is no coincidence that Jeremy Corbyn was inside the antisemitic Facebook Group Palestine Live with people who sympathise with Hamas and Hezbollah:
And when rockets do fly (also from Palestine Live), the Jews are accused of firing them:
It is also why it is no surprise that Jeremy Corbyn has been a patron of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign for a decade. How can someone who wants to be Prime Minister be a patron of a group that works for the destruction of the only stable democracy in the Middle East? Is nobody inside the Labour Party paying attention?
The Palestine Solidarity Campaign is also riddled with antisemitism. They seem to realise that without antisemites manning the stalls, there are not enough activists to man them. So the PSC have distanced themselves from their own activists. They act almost by remote control, barking orders via Facebook events, without being willing to take any responsibility for what type of people show up. They give lip-service to fighting antisemitism in the same newsletter that spreads the demonisation messages about Zionists.
In research I undertook in February of 2017, I found that 40% of activists that turned up to a PSC demonstration shared hard-core antisemitic material. In similar research into the Scottish PSC (commissioned by Jewish Human Rights Watch), levels were as high as 50%. When you consider the levels inside Palestine Live were even higher, you begin to realise that the connection between anti-Israel activity and hard-core antisemitism is almost absolute.
So when Jeremy Corbyn surprised everyone and won the Labour Leadership election, a whole army of people (racists) who demonise Zionists joined the party in support. When you mix the idea of controlling and manipulative Zionists, with a hard-left global vision of a rich and powerful elite, you may as well start reprinting the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion‘. No surprise then, that within days of Palestine Live being created, Protocols had already been shared in the group.
For an antisemite, ‘anti-Zionism’ is a ‘get out of jail free card’.
Jeremy Corbyn deletes his Facebook account
In the last forty-eight hours, Jeremy Corbyn deactivated his Facebook Account. I believe his team ‘knows’ what we ‘believe’, that the worst is probably yet to be found. Corbyn’s activity on social media has been problematic, and when it was originally cleaned up it was done in amateurish fashion. Corbyn left Facebook groups leaving his activity (comments and likes) behind. He cannot delete them today, because he is no longer a member of the group. He would have to remember every group where he was active, rejoin and then delete comments. But who remembers every group they were in and how can Jeremy Corbyn rejoin toxic groups? And what about inactive groups, that people can no longer access at all?
Corbyn’s team knew that people were busy searching group by group, looking for Facebook communities that Jeremy Corbyn was active in. The only action that could be taken was to deactivate the account. This is an image of a message stream before and after the account deletion:
Everything Corbyn did, has now gone. What does it say about someone who wants to be Prime Minister, that his own personal Facebook account is too toxic to remain public? For me, the moment he did this all chances of future reconciliation were washed away. It isn’t that I don’t trust him, but that now I never will. From this point on, Jewish leaders are caught in a trap that expects them to play diplomatic nice guys, but the truth is that Corbyn has indicated we do not know the worst of it.
Anyone who is publicly fighting against the antisemitism has become a target for constant and vicious abuse. I stopped reading the anonymous messages I receive. For two years, I have been vilified, with people posting blogs about me suggesting I am a racist (untrue), a member of a right wing Zionist group (untrue) and a far-right extremist (untrue). Accusations range from suggesting I hate Muslims and Palestinians (untrue) to the most recent one which says I actually collaborate with neo-Nazis (untrue). This material is disseminated in Labour forums as fact and in turn I receive abuse daily, some of it from moderates who have bought into the lies. I am not alone.
Anyone who criticises Jeremy Corbyn becomes a target for abuse. Anyone who stands up for the Jewish people becomes a target for abuse. Quite incredibly, British Politicians who joined the Jewish anti-racist demonstration have been abused and threatened with deselection.
These are the thugs currently turning the Labour Party at the constituency level, into the most racist political party in the UK. They also behave like fascists.
The dam bursts
This isn’t just abut Corbyn. In fact the main problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is the relatively ‘respectable’ face of the sewer of twisted ideologies that joined the party to support him. Christine Shawcroft’s resignation from the NEC came about because of her opposition to the suspension of a council candidate accused of Holocaust Denial. When did this level of hatred become normalised in a major political party? These latest accusations aren’t against random members, but those standing for official positions.
Yesterday saw another one emerge. Roy Smart:
There are those who are simply in denial. People like Owen Jones are becoming more frustrated. They are looking more isolated and desperate every-day and they refuse to believe this is anything other than a political stunt. Those voices in his ear supporting him are part of the problem. Until they realise this, they are doing little more than defending racists. The Labour Party is currently the only mainstream ‘racist party’ of UK politics.
The blurring of lines
There has been an active process of conflation. Supporting peace in the Middle East and supporting the Palestinian cause are not the same. Opposing Israeli settlements and anti-Zionism are not the same. Wanting to end the occupation and supporting BDS are not the same. Anything that should be almost definitive, that would help to distinguish a badge carrying antisemite, from a person with sympathy for Palestinians, is being blurred.
The suggestion that anti-Zionism is not the same as antisemitism is often mentioned by people who can define neither term. Corbyn activists have created an entire Tower of Babel to leave those with sympathy for Palestinians buying into a myth – that the Jewish problem with Corbyn activists is a political stunt designed to stop criticism of Israeli policy. This isn’t about Israel because this Jew-hate isn’t about Israel. It is part of a world-vision far larger that the confines of a minor conflict in the Middle East.
The Jewish enablers
If the Jewish community scream antisemitism, and the only defenders were non-Jewish Corbyn activists, the battle would probably not have lasted long. The only possible defence would have to be a Jewish one. So in the spring of 2016, when the antisemitic accusations against Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah were making headlines, a small group of hard-left Jewish activists came to blur the lines even further. This small band are Marxist in origin and they do not associate with the wider Jewish community. They have been firm allies of Jeremy Corbyn for decades. For most the only part of their Jewish identity that they hold onto, is the part they needed to weaponise to stifle the accusations of antisemitism.
They set up a group called Free Speech on Israel. The organisational goals were clear:
This group went on to form ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’ inside the Labour Party as a way of taking up the fight from within the Labour Party apparatus. These people are not about fighting antisemitism at all. The best and quickest way to contextualise their activity is to read the Wiki page on an early Russian Communist group called the Yevsektsiya. I will soon be publishing a detailed report into the activity of these anti-Zionist Jewish activists. I hold them chiefly responsible for Labour’s inability to conquer the disease.
This a recent comment about Alan Bull’s Holocaust Denial post, made by one of the JVL founders, Rachel Lever:
Not only does this post blatantly disregard many other of Alan Bull’s unacceptable posts, Rachel Lever actually turns the tables back and attempts to blame Jews for the spread of Holocaust Denial material. Just like examples earlier that suggest Hamas rockets are sent by Mossad, Rachel Lever is actually blaming Zionists for ‘planting’ articles about Holocaust denial.
A note for Rachel Lever
For future reference Rachel, the article came from Renegade Tribune, (NSFW), and Alan Bull shared the article directly from the Neo-Nazi website. This is white-supremacy material. To suggest this is an elaborate Jewish hoax is as antisemitic as claiming the Mossad were behind the Charlie Hebdo attack.
Jewish Voice for Labour are currently trying to convince Labour Constituencies to refuse ‘antisemitism training’ from the Jewish Labour movement. Instead they want to place themselves as the authority. Anyone who thinks Jewish Voice for Labour are actually trying to fight antisemitism are part of a deceptive and dangerous political game.
The Jeremy Corbyn interview
Which brings us full circle to Justin Cohen’s interview with Jeremy Corbyn. To suggest Jewish Voice for Labour are committed to fighting antisemitism is to insult the intelligence of everyone listening. These people mingle with antisemites everywhere they go. I refuse to believe that to reach the political heights that he has, Jeremy Corbyn can be that stupid. So either it is a deliberate blindness, or he has become too desensitised to ‘Zionist as manipulative devil‘. Jeremy Corbyn can no longer distinguish what is real antisemitism himself.
He calls JVL ‘good people’, and he is unable to separate himself from the extremism in the Labour Party. He is part of a radical faction that is weighed down with antisemitism. Any notion that regular voters have, that Jeremy Corbyn may align with moderates against extremists is misplaced.
He does not see a problem being a ‘patron’ of a group that sends antisemitic thugs out to demonstrate against the Jewish state. Jeremy Corbyn is not a leader and he cannot bring people together. That has never been his strong-suit. He is an agitator.
Don’t get me wrong, I have been in a room where Jeremy Corbyn entered. I know that he has a magnetic presence and that his cult following adore him. But he cannot untangle himself from the very pillars that placed him in power. Corbyn cannot present anything but a threat to British Jews. If he does untangle himself, he will lose power, and he will not allow that to happen. Jeremy Corbyn and British Jews are destined to struggle against each other.
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101 thoughts on “The Jewish community and Jeremy Corbyn are incompatible”
Interestingly those that don’t support a two state delusion include the President of Israel and the Bord of Deputies.
” Jews who vote Labour are lambs to the slaughter ” !
Stockholm Syndrome JINOs.
“As I have often pointed out, definitions of antisemitism built around ‘a hatred of Jews for what they are’ have it catastrophically wrong”
David seems to be developing delusions of grandeur, and now thinks he can disenfranchise the 1.5 billion speakers of the language, and tells them the meaning of the expression is nothing to do with the force of their uses of the expression , But means WHAT I SAY IT MEANS.
Stephen, not for the first time you push this line on this blog and not the first time you are wrong when you do so.
“Jeremy Corbyn and British Jews are destined to struggle against each other.”
Nah you have got it catastrophically wrong. Corbyn capitulated a good while ago. He is a self serving wimp. The smarter Israelists don’t even want to get rid of him anymore. Why would they when they own him.
Your charge that Jews are weakening your ‘civil rights’ and ‘freedom of expression/speech’ in the service of a foreign country in a previous thread , is the reiteration of a classic anti-Jewish/Antisemetic trope.
Accusing Jews of having duel loyalty to the country of their citizenship, and accusing them of serving the interests of another country/power is an Antisemetic trope that has been leveled at Jews to make them into the ‘other’, to seperate Jews from the communities they reside in, and to create distrust between Jews and others.
Your use of that language says much about what your motivation is to participate on this blog.
Tell you what Richard. How about you and I have a discussion about antisemitism and I wont mention Israel if you don’t. Deal ?
In the meantime maybe you should read the Bord’s constitution
Dumb Bellamy, that would be like having a discussion about “islamophobia” and not mentioning …
9/11, London’s 7/7, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Bastille Day, Boston Marathon, Pan Am 103, Manchester, Lee Rigby, Daniel Pearl, Mumbai, Bali, Nairobi, Westminster bridge, Orlando, San Bernardino, USS Cole, NYC bike path, Rotherham rape gangs, Beslan, Bamiyan, Halabja, Damascus, Luxor, Brooklyn Bridge, 1972 Olympics, Fascist Iran’s rallies calling for death to America, Fort Hood, Garland TX, Brussels airport, Moscow subway, thwarted sneaker and underwear bombers, need for Checkpoints at every airport in the world…
Dumb Bellamy, How can you be so DUMB?
Stephen, Why don’t you take time out to read the IHRA Definition and the US State Department Definition (written under the Obama administration) and explain to me why you don’t wish to mention Israel in this context? Linking anti-Israel defamation to anti-Semitism makes perfect sense to anyone who can add 2 and 2. None of us think it wrong to express fair, accurate, and balanced criticism of Israel or its governments. But singling it out, telling lies about it, calling it an apartheid state or a Nazi state could not be more blatant expressions of knowing anti-Semitic hatred.
Denis I am perfectly well aquainted with the IHRA thing and with the history behind it. I don’t call Israel an apartheid state or employ Nazi analogies when referring to it.Is there any other state that we cannot single out or tell lies about.
Apparently there is a law against examining Islamofascism and Socialism which murder innocent people all over the world.
See 9/11, London’s 7/7, Manchester, Lee Rigby, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice on Bastille Day, Boston marathon, Orlando, San Bernardino, Pan Am 103, Damascus (500K dead), Beslan, Mumbai, Nairobi, Madrid, Bali, Palmyra, Halabja, Ottawa, Copenhagen, Sydney, Fort Hood, …
I would love to take you up on your offer, but I can’t because the new Antisemitism and the State of Israel have in many ways become the same thing.
Antisemitism/anti-Jew hate seems to have moved ftom
1) hate of the Jewish religion to
2) hate of Jewish people to
3) hate of the Jewish country
Israel,in my and many others opinion, seems to have become the Jew of the world, where all things evil and bad and wrong can be layed at her door without rhyme or reason
It would be like having a bacon sandwich without the bacon.
I am doing a very interesting online course on the history of Antisemitism by Yad Vashem via ‘Future Learning’.
A striking explanation by one lecturer was to the effedt that ‘ when you need an enemy, Antisemitisem will metamorphose into whatever guise is needed for that particular moment.event.
So I am sorry I cannot engage in this particular debate as it would lack any gravitas as most of its content and meaning would be absent
A discusion on Antisemitism without mention of Israel would be possible prior to 1967, but after that the situation becomes a little more complicated because of left wing antipathy to Israel and the gtowth of classical Antisemitism in vast swathes of the Muslim world after that
“The smarter Israelists don’t even want to get rid of him anymore. Why would they when they own him.”
You must archive this stuff David as a valuable record of the way vocab was developed by antisemites and how it was used to pretend that they were not. Bellers is your star witness and should never be banned.
Dumb Bellamy is the Gift that keeps on Giving.
Ian it is obvious that you don’t have a ………….There is no need to keep highlighting it
Dumb Bellamy just had another of his Petit Mal episodes.
Corbyn is a ‘radical leftist’ that dislikes (hates ) the western world and its values.
He attaches value to anything that appears to contain ‘ethnic’ value, and as Israel is connected to the west and is not ‘ethnic’, Israel is immediately guilty of ……… (whatever takes your fantasy) by being a western nation
Israel and Zionism and Judaism are both seperate and the same issue.
As the majority of Jews have some form of connection to Israel, Jews have become synonomous with Israel.
Therefore Jews are Zionists/racists etc depending on the bent of the accusers
I don’t believe Corbyn is Antisemetic per se, but because so many Jews are connected to Israel he now (I feel) subconsciously equates Jews to Israel/Zionism.
So I have my doubts as to whether it is possible under these circumstances for Labour to be anything other than institutionally Anti-Israel, Anti-Zionist and by extension Antisemetic
Counter Chant this ditty…
From the River to the Sea,
Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!
” Instead they want to place themselves as the authority. ”
David you just made that up. Evidence ?
Not made up at all. They are currently telling CLP’s to refuse to accept JLM’s antisemitism training, but rather to suggest it should come from JVL. In other words, that is quite a factual comment I made.
Well I have been wrong before. 1974 I think it was. I wouldn’t doubt that they have been telling CLP’s not to accept training from JLM . That would be contrary to the Chakrabarti report which the LP adopted. I have not noticed JLM suggesting that thay should be charged with the job. But if you were able to provide some instances I would admit being wrong and apologise.
Yes, 1974 milliseconds ago, when you last displayed your propensity to be DUMB.
JVL that is o:)
JVL – Jihadi Voice of Laboor
What is the relevance of 1974 in your post, or was that you just being satcastic
David do you deny collaborating with Yonatan Scoffmann, Sharon Klaff and Harvey Garfield? Be careful now, the truth matters.
Dumb Bellamy, Do you lie in bed every night thinking “how can I make myself look DUMBER tomorrow than I did yesterday?”
I collaborate with Jonathan, Sharon and Harvey.
Why shouldn’t I; what in your opinion makes them deserving of your scorn?
I don’t always agree with them, but that is the way of life
Absolutely spot on.
But why not address, head on, the root cause of modern anti-Jewish hatred, the cause you so eloquently explain, anti-Zionism?
Why do so many of our communal leaders try so hard to separate anti-Jewish hatred from anti-Zionism, when they are inextricably intertwined? Any doctor who sought to permanently treat a severed artery in the wrist by applying a torneque at the elbow would be considered incompetent. Yet it is clear that anti-Zionism is the gateway to most modern anti-Jewish hatred. The reason for the anti-Zionism is, as evident from your article, false allegations of what Israel and Zionism are. Anti-Jewish bigotry will continue to fester and grow, until we confront the lies that underpin the hatred of Israel.
Tony are you the same Tony Jacobs of Hendon Town Hall fame ?
Please explain your question?
Tony it isn’t an aggressive question. A certain Tony Jacobs took part in a pro Brian Coleman demo with Scoffie and Harv at Hendon Town Hall and then went inside and scoffed all the biscuits meant for the councillors.
I just wondered if you were that TJ or another. It is not an uncommon name.
David, I never mentioned aggression, where did that idea come from?
As for scoffing all the biscuits, I wouldn’t know about that, I left after 30 minutes or so, without ever setting foot inside. Why do you want to libel me as a biscuit thief?
Dumb Bellamy, were your father and mother also brother and sister?
The arch antisemite Tony Greenstein is becoming increasingly hysterical by the day
I’m not sure what he’s defending as he’s been kicked out the Labour Party and suspended by Momentum pending the rubber stamping of his expulsion. He’s dead to Labour only he doesn’t know it as yet.
Here’s some breaking news . Yevsektsiya Jews Jewdas have finally struck the big time and might just have done for Jezza in the process. Unbelievable
Harv stick to the rickshaw biz. Town crying isn’t for you
Dumb Bellamy stick to the “catastrophic” Nakba meme. I like it when you eat your black heart out knowing that your side is thwarted again.
Oh Harv this is a hoot. I just read up on the ” breaking News” in Jewish News that twin pillar of the Zionist gutter press. It is hilariously pathetic. Since folks are being fed some selective quotes they may as well have another opportunity to read the whole thing. It seems the Jewdas site is very busy at the mo so it will have to be indirect.
The funniest bit was how Jewdas were supposed to have said Israel was sewage that had to be disposed of. What really happened was someone pointed out that Israel had bought the vote of Micronesia by promising to build them a new waste disposal facility. The reply was ” Israel needs to be disposed of properly”
Thought it was pretty witty myself.
You are right Harv.They have hit the big time. Well done !!!!!
Tweet of the week.
@geoffreyjewdas ” Whilst we are trending we want to take the opportunity to remind everyone that its pronounced BEIGEL”.
It was a clever stunt. I’ll give them all that
OK the more I think about it the more I think Corbyn made a good call.
Would you rather go to dinner with Geoffrey Cohen or the joyless endlessly self pitying Jonathan Arkush ?
Corbyn made a great call, namely he accepted a Seder invitation as part of the Passover celebrations, which itself celebrates Jewish folk breaking free from their chains of bondage – so it was very apt for JC to attend.
The ensuing Twitter storm, whereby we had the usual Labour suspects and the likes of Pollard expressing ‘faux’ outrage was brilliant. Loads of young Jewish folk, many who had not heard of Jewdas piled in – indeed, such is the interest in Jewdas that its server-host could not handle the number of visit the fake outrage generated.
Of course, Mr Collier et al wish to project Jewdas and its organic collective as being outside of Jewish mainstream opinion, namely the opinion that the UK Establishment wishes to project, which is Conservative. Jewdas will have none of that.
Further, The Jewish Chronicle has Jewdas in its top 100 influential groups within the UKs Jewish community, its currently at 61, but Corbyn’s visit and association will grow that import.
I’d say Corbyn has actually played a blinder, but, I don’t really want to politicise the Seder, rather, I think its positive that JC spent over 4 hours of his personal time celebrating an important religious festival with his constituents – the feedback from those who have attended has been positive.
Whilst professed Community elders may not desire to engage with Corbyn, the youth vote most certainly does. And if a collective of miserable old buggers don’t like this fact, tough. Our nations future belongs to the young and JC seems to be attuned to this fact.
This is so typical of the ‘bubble’ you exist in. ‘The community youth vote’. These people get slaughtered in the UJS vote every year. The ‘Youth’ are not with them. It is fascinating to watch people on the outside try to unravel what is happening in a way that conforms to their own ideological slant.
Do I think he played it brilliantly? Yes, absolutely. I have nothing but admiration for the hard-left box of tricks. This was a real cracker. Did it confuse people and create a further blurring of the lines? Yes. Did it make it look like an internal Jewish spat? Yes. Did Corbyn create the feeling of ‘us v them’ – Yes. Ticks all those boxes nicely.
Jewsdas are almost a parody. Their Passover Seder calls for the burning down of Parliament. If this is the sort of thing you want Corbyn hugging in another attack on the mainstream Jewish community – that’s your right too.
It was deliberate, spiteful and divisive. Just the sort of stuff that got Trump elected. Do I think it will work for him (get him elected) – no, I still don’t think this will happen. I think enough people in this country will be scared of voting for him come election time.
Which ‘bubble’ is this David?
Are you suggesting that Cobyn in last June’s General election did excel within the youth vote, namely all those 35 and below demographic, of which Jew constitute a small segment?
Do you deny that the alleged Leadership of the Jewish body in the UK is predominately Conservative, hence unlikely ever to vote for Corbyn regardless what’s on offer – so, if you want to enable with the Community, why necessary to go through a Jewish/Conservative Jewish body.
Further, machinations within student unions politics has zero interest for me, well apart from the fact that the NUS keeps spewing out awful liberal entities like Jack Straw and Harriett Harmen – hardly stern Socialist material I’m afraid to say.
However this alleged Conservative nature of the Jewish collect, which actual is not monolithic, but myriad, does seem to be moving slowly to the Left, particularly if we look at those supporting Corbyn, or Sanders in the USA.
Of course, I’m berated when I post links to most interesting validated Research that underscores such claims, which I’m delighted to read. Of course one does not like to make exaggerations, but movement there is as presented by the Jewish Community Federation in the USA – which, as ever, I’ve linked for your consideration, given the UK media seems to ignore such studies: https://jewishfed.org/sites/default/files/Bay%20Area%20Portrait_2.8.2018%20without%20hidden%20slides%20%5BFINAL%5D%20Website%20version.pdf
For the many, not the few!
The bubble you are in, is the same one that Corbyn lives within. That sees numerous Jewish voices pushing soothing notions about how the community is ‘split’. It is a highly deceptive position, given that a large majority of Jews in every survey support Israel as a Jewish state. As for Jews or the Jewish leadership being ‘Tory’, well that’s poppycock.
The final twist of course is the one regarding the community as a whole. Because (and Mondoweiss pulled a really good one on this with a recent article), where they take those leaving the community, and blame it back onto Israel. Traditionally, the community ‘loses’ a percentage of its youth through assimilation. This is not a ‘Zionist’ related issue at all. However, if you compare old to young, the statistics are stacked, because the old who identified as Jewish didn’t assimilate, whilst any ‘youth’ figure will contain a % of Jews who will assimilate. In effect you are not comparing like to like. It is little surprise then, that at any given point, older Jews statistically are more conservative, more Zionist and practice more religious traditions that younger ones.
I don’t expect anyone outside of the community to grasp this properly, and these statistics are used and abused by ideological propagandists to say something they don’t say. You will not split the Jewish (Diaspora) community from Israel, although the size of the Jewish community will continue to disintegrate. Those leaning to the hard-left are least likely to go to synagogue, marry someone Jewish, raise their children Jewish or sympathise with Israel, so statistically 100 Zionist Jews today will produce a higher level of children who adhere to the Jewish faith, than anti-Zionist Jews. A generation on, AZ children, if brought up Jewish at all, will be almost fully assimilated, whilst Jewish Zionist children will again split between Zionist offspring and a % of new anti-Zionists ‘rebels’. It is a circle, but an ever decreasing one. An anti-Zionist Jew (apart from the small ultra orthodox cult) is highly likely to be one or two generations away from the family leaving the community entirely. All of the statistics support this notion. In reality Jewish people have always had a % who leave the community. Until a few decades ago, they left quietly. Today they get the opportunity to spit on the community on the way out. It is no biggie. Israel is there, safe, secure and 100 years from now, the offspring of most of these AZ’s probably won’t even know they had a Jewish descendant.
But hey – today you still get to hold them up as if they are important.
Laboor has become Britains latest Fascist party. Hence Laboor is riddled with anti-semites – which puts on a show by “suspending” anti-semites – only for short periods – wink, wink.
“Until a few decades ago, they left quietly”. Not always David, let’s not forget Gerónimo de Santa Fe previously known as Yehosúa ben Yosef ibn Vives and other like him.
You’re right, I should have said ‘most’. Is there anyone who has read what I posted and disagrees, disputes the observations or finds I am insulting or inaccurate?
. Israel is there, safe, secure
Not as safe and secure as was the Roman Empire, as was the Soviet Union, as was Apartheid South Africa. Just like the above mentioned Israel will collapse under the weight of its contradictions. In this case uniquely racist contradictions.
You seem to be complaining that you guys and gals are destined to end up as a bunch of mongrels like the rest of us. Maybe.
(Rejecting the Apartheid comparison of course) – I didn’t mean in a permanent national framework. Nothing is ever permanent. I meant that it doesn’t matter what groups like JVL are or do, their impact on Jews can be bad, but it is only localised and fleeting, and in a generation or two their offspring will not know where to place Israel on a map, or perhaps be members of online groups posting Rothschild conspiracy with the rest of them – oblivious that their own grandparent carried the ‘tainted blood’. History will write them down as bad guys, and there will be a wiki page about whatever it is they did or did not manage to do before they disappeared along with the rest of those who tried hurting Jews on their way out of the community.
As for the ‘mongrels’ comment – I reject that too. Just because I take pride in my identity and heritage, it doesn’t mean I consider it inherently superior to others. I love some other cultures, and fully respect some people’s heritage that I accept I cannot fully appreciate or understand from the outside. I do not view assimilation as moving from good to bad, just as an inevitable part of any community’s existence. And it is not a complaint – I do not complain about historical inevitability. The Diaspora was a community created by dispersal. Part of the glue that held it all together was injected with a destabiliser in 1948. Whether it realises it or not, it is 100 years from being unrecognisable.
I am not trying to be clever here I am interested. How do folks like Jewdas fit into this story ? I mean, they are deffo not assimilated or showing signs of becoming so are they ?
Jewdas are to the community, what their politics are to wider society. I think they are near perfect representation inside as they are out. Your approach is wrong because it is personal and individual. If a study puts forth that most people like either salty or sweet popcorn, the existence of small groups that like both, or likes them mixed, becomes deflective. Those that like them mixed can be further broken down into those that like it more salty, or more sweet. In the end you lose sight completely of the relevance of the study itself. Individuals are not statistics, and nobody is a perfect average.
There are 1000 ways to leave a community. I wouldn’t dream of suggesting what is or what is not in the heads of specific individuals. I can only refer you back to statistics. People who practice the religion to some degree are much more likely to be Zionists. Zionists are much more likely to have offspring who identify as Jewish. That there exists a few people who practice the religion and are anti-Zionist is not relevant to a statistical study in which they are nothing but outliers. There are outliers to every curve. I would guess they are more likely to have offspring who identify as Jewish than a secular anti-Zionist, but beyond that, I really don’t want to point fingers. It isn’t a personal attack.
I didn’t think it was. Your answer is a good one. I get that.
Jewdas response F/B page
While we remain opposed to the Monarchy we were delighted that the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, accepted our invitation to join the Jewdas community seder. Jeremy was a 10/10 guest and provided delicious maror from his allotment.
In 1812 the British government designated Jewdas to be the sole representative body for British Jews. We fulfil our role of being the voice for Anglo Jewry by writing funny tweets, holding great parties and by passing on the memes we receive from God via Geoffrey Cohen.
Sadly our God given right to be the sole spokespeople for Anglo Jewry is not respected by many heretical organisations which are known as the Jewish establishment.
One such organisation is the dangerous fringe group which calls itself “ The Bored of Deputies”. They continue to insist that their outdated niche views represent all Jews.
We have been campaigning against antisemitism on the Left and the Right for many years. Like, way before it was popular. We have run anti-antisemitism workshops in such far flung places as Marseille and Bloomsbury, opposed neo Nazi demos in Stamford Hill and Golders Green, produced and distributed information on how to criticise Israel WITHOUT being anti-Semitic, demonstrated against left anti-Semite Gilad Atzmon, and most importantly, mercilessly took the piss out of Ken Livingstone. You could call us trend setters.
We are not happy with the Jewish Establishment , but remain deeply involved in many synagogues and communal organisations( though this is mostly for the free food). We are unhappy with the pervasive antisemitism that still remains on the left but continue to be very much involved, because we are committed to a better world and a better left, and believe that the only way to tackle antisemitism is to keep fighting for our rights in the diaspora.
We are thrilled to be getting so much attention that Stephen Pollard was forced to admit we are a legitimate part of the Jewish community
why aren’t they a legitimate part of the community? Everyone is. So are JVL. The whole point of Zionism is that it sees Jews as a people, a diverse spectrum of people. Many Jews still live outside Israel, but they are still Jews. Jewdas are part of that spectrum. JVL too. To suggest they are not completely misses the point. But like I said, it was an impressive party trick and it worked well.
Loving your work on this thread Bellers. You’d have been brilliant on Its a Knockout as the bloke in the giant waiter suit and huge shoes, wobbling all over the place, trying to stop a tray of drinks from spilling whilst Eddie Waring pissed himself on the sidelines. I think they used to serialize it in your pretend cat comic.
Well there is no doubt who are the most famous Jews in Britain o:)
I don’t have available statistics for its traffic, but it had an incredible spike, so large indeed the Server went down, which explains why the BBC could only espouse BS, rather than an objective narrative of events.
Still, I really enjoyed engaging in the Twitter storm, which itself was a festival of joviality – Woodcock and Angela Smith being eviscerated, and Pollard did not get off lightly either.
That these events took place only two days after the Israeli massacre, kinda made it more important.
I was shocked by the level of US Jewish input, but in a nice way.
All in all, a satisfying way to spend my morning, me being GMT+7 presently.
I wish you a Happy Nakba in any timezone you occupy.
I’m sorry to say I’ve transgressed again, not only do I hang out with the wrong type of Jews, but I’ve been listening to Israeli critiques again from some famous linguistics scholar I believe. Anyhow, in this discussion, something was said about Gaza and mowing the lawn. Do they have bowling greens in Gaza I wonder, and why would the IDF be so kind as to mow it so often?
Anyway, very confused, but hope you may shine some light on this, or even David as he knows a lot too: https://kpfa.org/episode/flashpoints-april-3-2018/
Chrissy, Go to Gaza and find out. Dress flamboyantly, wear makeup, lets see how Hamass deals with you.
Dumb Bellamy is a Legend – in his own mind.
You are ever so slightly behind the curve again with that. Its not Mr Bellamy who’s become a legend, but Jewdas, which has now been given space in The Guardian after its one woman politics hack made a complete abortion of her propaganda hit; Here we go, and do enjoy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/03/jeremy-corbyn-passover-jewdas-good-news
yes, it was an impressive party trick and it worked to perfection.
“…these events took place only two days after the Israeli massacre,..”
Oh, purleese Chris, surely ‘genocidal massacre’. The pretend time delay in your fictional world must have pushed you off message there. Never mind. We knew what you meant.
Bet you were miffed when your Hamas mates came out and admitted that 60% of those killed were their ‘fighters’. Sort of ruins the message that our colonial savages are brutally slotting little 7 year old girls in Disney sweatshirts carrying bunches of flowers and peace loving quadriplegics. No doubt you and the wanky British politicos that you follow will have some snappy internet counter pre-prepared from one of your budget activism manuals.
Thanks Ian, I can’t get drawn into this at the moment, I have a massive backlog of work to catch up on, so thanks for your great response.
Regrettably, actual video evidence does not lie. Call it what you will mate, it was a massacre of unarmed persons, not a border incursion.
Up the BDS I say, as something internationally needs to be done, given US interference in UN deliberations focused in Israeli and Palestine. Oh, and the UK is as bad.
Chris, the UN has been hijacked by the same jihadi umbrella group which hijacked 4 passenger planes on 9/11, bombed London’s underground on 7/7 2005.
How about BDS “Pal-e-STINE”, Der Guardian and Der Independent and especially companies that advertise in those rags?
Chris Rogers, “Up the BDS”? Yes, right up ’em, I say.
Chris Rogers, you must be having a laugh when you say “Regrettably, actual video evidence does not lie.”
On the contrary, there’s a whole “Palestinian” industry, dedicated to falsifying video evidence against Israel. It has for many years been nicknamed Pallywood. I’m sure that you are aware of the Al Dura myth, as well as many more.
We do watch the BBC here, and the video evidence was damning. However, you are correct, you can fake alleged video evidence, which Panorama has fallen for, evidenced by its White helmets coverage – victims looking more like made up Zombies from George Romero’s Night of the Living Dead, rather than exhibiting symptoms of actual burns victims, which are too harrowing to watch. Still, great hasbara stuff, just a shame much of it don’t wash anymore.
Oh, and then we have the Russian Poison Scandal where it transpires the Russian’s are not actually at fault, which means the Corbyn anti-semitism charade will now dampen down as our liars of a Government get off this hook.
A busy day again it would seem.
That is a rather bold, unsubstantiated comment, but then hey, that is your forte.
Then perhaps pay more attention to the actual Press Release from Porton Down, under taken in a stage managed fashion, its add-ons reshot once government handlers changed the narrative – go and read the full transcript of what’s been said over at Craig Murray’s Blog, or multiple other Blogs – you won’t get anything from the BBC that’s for sure, but we are more sophisticated now.
On top of this, the Russians are now demanding an actual Court Case at the Hague, where the UK will have to make its case on the most flimsy of evidence. As Denis Healey once famously said: “when you’re in a hole, stop digging.”
Pallywood = Visual Taqiyya.
Does BAFTA have vanessa redgrave or roger waters give awards for the Best Pallywood of the year?
I’d rather Hanoi Jane myself, namely Ms Fonda.
Aren’t you a bit too old and crumpled for Hanoi Jane?
No mate. You’ll know when we crank up the Genotron to Massacre. We actually killed more of them when we neutralized one of the tunnels they’d dug under our border. Not sure whether they were armed or not. We don’t stop to ask.
If you’re waiting for us to ask permission of anyone to defend our border I’ll offer you the same advice that my family got when they were pushed into the ‘showers’. Don’t hold your breath.
The Best Defense is a good Offense.
Mistaken again. Israel democracy is much safer than any of its despotic neighbours and all the evil empires you mention. Israel has seen them rise and fall, while Israel goes from strength to strength. Am Yisrael chai.
David, you speak for me on this issue.
Well it seems that Jewdas are the wrong kind of Jews and Corbyn should be speaking with ” mainstream” orgs. But which ?
Trivia quiz time.
Who said this ….
” The JLC are unelected, unaccountable and unacceptable”
Answers on a post card please.
ok now you have that figured that out you can progress to question 2
Which Jewish paper said ” Jonathan Arkush has no credibility”
You see Ian when you are playing this game, there is no substitute for experience and at least a cursory understanding of what the fuck is going on
Dumb Bellamy, Must you always have conversations with yourself – in Public?
Are you that lonely???
What game is that Bellers ?
Well Ian before you can understand how the game is being played you have to understand what the game is. I will swap you an understanding for a free holiday in Siderot. I would have to change my name but thats no prob is it Harv ?
But anyway having successfully negotiated
Well Ian it is true, before you can understand how the game is being played you have to understand what the game is. I will swap you an understanding for a free holiday in Siderot. I would have to change my name. But that is no prob is it Harv?
But anyway Ian now you have made such great progress you are well placed to answer a question I asked a while back.
Who busted Newmark ?
Your obsession with me is endearing. Unfortunately for you I’m already spoken for
Well you could hardly speak for yourself could you ?
But congrats at not biting o:)
Dumb Bellamy is used to being kicked and punched, by his partner.
Bellers I always got how this was just a game to guys like you rather than anything really serious so why bother learning the rules? Larking around all day on social media having pissing competitions with equally half hearted opponents isn’t really Bader Meinhoff is it? At least David puts himself in the middle of things in real life. Your biggest risk is the odd blister. You wouldn’t fancy Sderot.; far too close to the Hamas home made katushyas for your delicate sensibilities. Maybe after our next genocidal massacre of the innocents. Unless of course you’re thinking of doing some real activism ….
Ian are you inviting David to compare his blisters with mine ?
Dumb Bellamy got his blisters from his herd of goats – the ones he keeps captive in his flat.
Is it part of your game?
Err no, but it seems to be part of yours. Once again highlighting you know what
Yikes! Great webcraft there Bellers. I’ve even got my own activist gag. Now, I’m afraid you’ll have to do one. There’s footie on and that’s far more important than this.
Is it Beitar v Livorno
” Of course footie isn’t important but its the most important of the unimportant things”
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