Lorde,

Last week you read and responded to an open letter asking you to cancel the gig in Israel. This letter isn’t like that one. As soon as any artist lists Israel as a tour destination, an industry springs to life to bully them into cancelling. The letter you read last week is an element of that industry. Polished, packed full of disinformation and written by both an Arab and a Jew. A letter that makes you feel that the whole world is united and only you, Lorde, stand in the way of Palestinians receiving justice.

This letter is different. It isn’t a begging letter asking you to change your mind. I accept that once you have bought into the lies, it is very difficult to shake them. After all, it is absolutely true that Palestinians suffer. The only real questions relate to why this is happening, and what can be done about it.

This letter is simply one written by a Jew who fights antisemitism, and sees the boycott movement against Israel for what it truly is.

Lorde- two simple questions

I ask you two simple questions:

Firstly Lorde, I am assuming you understand the history of antisemitism. Centuries of expulsions, persecutions, boycotts, massacres and genocide. History highlights antisemitism as a disease that mutates, with Jews caught between Christian accusations of deicide, Muslim Dhimmi status, racist ideologies and far-left communism. There can be no denial of this. So if Israel is the Jewish return to self-rule, how do you think that State would be treated? How would Israel be received in a world that cannot shake antisemitism? What manner of hate would that tiny state be subject to – if not conflict, demonisation, exceptionalism and boycott?

Secondly. ask yourself why you can go and play in Russia, and hardly anybody notices? Why is it that artists can appear almost anywhere on earth, in nations that truly abuse large segments of their own populations, or that are a cause of major conflict and loss of life, and there is no visible movement that opposes them?

Any honest answer to these two questions will contain the simple truth about the boycott against Israel. It is the ‘Jewish thing’. Everything else is irrelevant detail, set out to deceive innocent people into believing that this time, unlike all the other times, boycotting the Jews is the right thing to do.

Lorde – simple truths

Lorde, these are simple truths relating to the boycott:

  • If Israel was not a Jewish state protecting LGBT rights, but rather a Muslim majority state persecuting gays – there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.
  • If Israel was not a Jewish state with Muslims serving in their judiciary, parliament and armed forces, but rather a Muslim majority state that had ethnically cleansed its Jewish population – there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.
  • If Israel was not a Jewish state that had free and fair elections, but rather another state run by a cruel despot, there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.
  • If Israel was not a Jewish state that protected minority worship, but rather any of the states in the Middle East persecuting or massacring Christian minorities, there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.
  • If Israel was not a thriving Jewish state that sought peace, but rather any of its neighbours that seek conflict to hide the internal deficiencies of their own leadership, there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.
  • If Israel was not a Jewish state that operates a free press, but rather any of the nations that imprison their own dissenters and refuse to let international media outlets operate freely, there would be no boycott pressure for you not to perform.

These are the simple truths of the boycott. It is the Jewish identity of the state that is the problem, not the activity of Israel. It isn’t even that Israel is one of many states that should be boycotted. If a true list of rogue states were to be drawn up, Israel would be nowhere in sight.

Lorde – Your new adoring friends

Then there are those celebrating your decision. The group of ‘haters’ you have now joined. My research focuses on the hatred of Jews that drives anti-Israel activity. My blog is full of examples of how if Israel wasn’t the ‘Jewish’ state, there would be no anti-Israel movement. Antisemitism is the fuel in the engine. You are no more but a bit-part that they use to help them get where they want to go.

A few months ago, Radiohead faced the ‘rage’ of the Israel haters. In Scotland there was a protest. Palestinian flags were waved by a few people at the Radiohead gig. A perfect imprint of the type of people who hounded you to cancel and rejoice in your decision. This an image from the protest:

Radiohead protest

The research highlighted this small smiling crowd was riddled with those who hate Jews so much, they even deny the Holocaust happened. Because the truth, as with every anti-Israel demonstration, shows the crowd is little more than a bunch of Jew haters, alongside a few humanitarians they’ve managed to dupe along the way. All my research shows that if it wasn’t for the antisemites running the stall – the distorted information would never be handed out. These people feed off the ignorance and the goodwill of others.

A real shame

I am certain that once it became public knowledge you had Israel on your tour, you were inundated with pressure. The boycott industry is a noisy one, and the arguments about ‘justice’ may be entirely artificial, but they sound convincing.

We all know Israel’s situation is a complex one. Israel has sought peace but continually faces an underlying hard-core that will not accept Israel’s basic right to exist. Given that the only options open to Israel are survive or be destroyed, Israel has resorted to conflict management until that situation changes. BDS is a response to this created by those who wish to see Israel removed from the map. A movement pretending to be something it isn’t. There are two choices here – recognise Israel or try to destroy it. BDS seeks its destruction. That is what you have chosen to side with.

It is a real shame that you have aligned your music with an arm of terror.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

David

 

Help support my research

I fight antisemitism and the revisionist narrative that demonises Israel. This research does make a difference. I was recently named as one of the J100 (‘top 100 people positively influencing Jewish life’) by The Algemeiner. I am fully independent, and your support makes much of what I do possible.

Please if you can, consider making a donation. Either a single amount or if you can a small monthly contribution.  We need to be there to expose the lies and we need to research the facts to tell the truth. Even producing just one of these pieces does take days, sometimes weeks, and whilst I do what I can, there are serious constraints that impact on what is possible. Your assistance can and does make a difference. Every contribution is greatly appreciated.

Keep up to date, subscribe to the blog by using the link on the page. Follow the FB page for this blog: and follow me on Twitter.

Facebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestlinkedintumblrmail

273 thoughts on “Following the hate – an open letter to Lorde

    1. We all know Israel’s situation is a complex one.

      Complexity is a major bedrock of the Israeli lobby play book. It is among the last refuges of the scoundrel. In reality it couldn’t be more simple.

      1. You are right Stephen, from certain angles it is a simple issue. If the Arabs were to seek real peace and put down their arms, peace would immediately exist – if the Jews did the same, they’d be slaughtered. That simple truth (also straight out of the playbook – the playbook has so many truisms) leads to the complexity of the current situation. How does Israel best navigate the waters of conflict management. The only real discussion worth having today.

          1. ‘justice’ – in this context is just a meaningless trick-word. If justice were of import to the Arabs, the entire region would look different. Justice is not important – revenge is. They cannot swallow the defeat of a movement that sought to deny Jews the right to rule themselves, and the idea of ‘justice’ is born within that framework. If they were to seek peace – everyone could prosper, every child could live in peace, and each people could control their own destiny. That ‘fairness’ is the one I seek – nowt to do with revenge or wishing harm on others. BDS is a movement of revenge that targets the only Jews in the Middle East.

          2. Ah well there is the great divide. You think justice is the trick word and I think peace ( Pax Israeliana ) is the trick word. An unbridgeable great divide.

            And there is the deflective talk of ” the Arabs ” . You want to keep the focus on Arabs as a vaguely contoured collective while I am inclined to want to focus on the folks that live and are rooted on the land between the river and the sea. Another unbridgeable divide. unbridgeable because we both want to maintain the use of language that serves our very different agendas.

            1. except Stephen, I never said Justice is a trick word, I said it is a trick word when used in this context. Point me to anywhere else- where such justice is sought? Additionally, ‘those folk’, you talk about, are indistinguishable from those other folk on the other side of the borders. In 1946, do you think that an Arab moving to from Akko to Tyre, was considered anything other than an Arab moving from one part of an Arab land to another? Three years later, they stripped those people of their dignity and identity simply to perpetuate a conflict. Opposition to Jewish rule is the driving factor here.

            2. JUSTICE
              In discusions I have has with Arabs and Palestinians I fave asked them what they mean by justice. I have yet to receive an answer. They normally ask me wfat I think it means. And when I say I think it means the destruction of Israel they answer with broad smiles.
              The conclusion I have to come to on this is that they are unable to verbalise what they think; but acknowledge it by smiles when I ask them if Israels destruction is what they mean.
              They know that if they tell the truth in front of their ‘useless idiot’ western friends they will not be able to keep up their fiction and they will lose their westerners support

          3. Further if someone were to refer to ” the Jews” in a pejorative context you would be jumping up and down, weeping and wailing and screaming RACIST!!!

          1. Because you mentioned the collective of ‘Jews’ being referred to in the pejorative context. If we are talking about traits, characteristics and so on – then it would clearly be racist. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

      2. Of course they are distinguishable David. They are distinguishable by some being in one place and others being in other places. David you are all over the place here.

        1. I do think this line of argument you are running with is the funniest, because it has no historical support whatsoever. You know what the only remnant of colonial rule is? The idea of the Palestinians. If you wish to truly decolonise Palestine, then you need to be rid of the silly concept that the Palestinians in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan are anything more than citizen hostages, being used by their cousins to perpetuate a conflict. ‘Palestinians’ is a colonial construct, so defined only because the British placed a line in the sand, to enable the Jews to return to their homeland. Once this adherence to truth begins, the conflict sorts itself out. I am not all over the place at all. I am dealing with the fundamental arguments of BDS, that are all rooted in poppycock.

          1. David I don’t need historical support for comments on the present state of affairs. You are all over the place. For you it is all about your historical grievances You need to get over them.

            1. Oh Stephen, you have to be aware of the inherent hypocrisy of your position. If you do wish to argue, then at least try to do better. My argument isn’t about historical grievances at all, but rather on the here and now. I seek peace based on what is – today. You argue that instead we need justice. You wish to redraw the map based on history. Now you suggest historical grievance needs to be set aside. (!!!) Your entire argument is based on what you suggest occurred 70 years ago and a claim for what you sense as ‘justice’. (!!) Else how do you criticise my attack on BDS, which is based on grievances of 1948 and earlier? IF you are so wrapped up in historical grievance (which i think silly), then at least base it on factual history rather than a poppycock narrative. How is Israel, somehow responsible for the fact that 3 generations of people born in Lebanon have been denied basic rights? They aren’t of course – which is why your entire argument here is both based on false historical grievance and utter poppycock. Justice, would be criticising Lebanon for what they do to people they deny citizenship to. And I am all over the place? Lol.

          2. No David I would accept the map as it is today and advocate campaigning for the democratising of the de facto one state between the river and the sea. A fact on the ground that isn’t going to change.

            1. So what do you think about the Arab insistence on the right of return – given it is probably the major factor in the inability to reach or sign on an agreement. Everyone in the area can and should have been living freely for decades, were it not for the insistence of the Arabs to rely on what they see as historical injustices. In addition, as you have an aversion to the idea of historical injustice, and BDS is dependent on it, how do you view BDS?

        1. OK Mike I will. There is one state between the river and the sea. That isn’t going to change. The task is to democratise it. Democracy means the full and equal rights for everyone. Full political rights, freedom of expression, freedom of movement and all the other stuff we associate with democracy.

          It really is that simple. Any attempt to complicate it is deflection and in many instances motivated by racism

          1. Thanks Stephen. There is no democracy in Gaza or the West Bank. What makes you think there will be a democracy in your vision of democrisation of the land ‘from the river to the sea’.

            1. Why engage with an unhinged loon who makes clear that he is fuelled by pathological hatred?

          2. Stephen, by wishing for one state instead of two, you expose your (conscious or unconscious) underbelly of anti-Semitism, as you know full well it would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State. As the Palestinians have tried democracy and failed miserably at it – witness Hamas, recognized by the civilized world as a terrorist organization, running Gaza like their own personal prison state. Witness Abbas and his Fatah cronies, lining their pockets with billions of dollars in aid from the west, AND FROM ISRAEL (who still provides the water and electricity to the West Bank, while denying any democracy at all.

    2. grow up Bellyache, or try to use intelligent argument
      You have not yet answered my question about the reasons you call Israel a basket case
      And are you still trying to prove how clever you are by acting stupid
      Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

  1. Why waste your time on an empty headed nonentity who is unable to think for herself and is probably afraid of being boycotted if she sings in Israel.

  2. A word about this piece.

    You suggest that boycotting Israel is boycotting “the Jews”. How so? Most Jews do NOT live there and prefer not to do so. You seek to deceive.

    1. Absolutely because of ‘Jews’. Are you suggesting that if *EVERYTHING ELSE* remained equal and we merely exchanged the Jews for yet another Muslim sect at war with its neighbours, there would be a boycott? We have millions of dead, chemical weapons use and unending persecutions to hold as evidence that this would not be the case. It is clearly a ‘Jew thing’, and to pretend it isn’t is dishonest.

  3. Never occurred to me that it was necessary to restate that we were talking about a particular context

    OK

    You think justice is the trick word and I think peace ( Pax Israeliana ) is the trick word. An unbridgeable great divide.

    And there is the deflective talk of ” the Arabs ” . You want to keep the focus on Arabs as a vaguely contoured collective while I am inclined to want to focus on the folks that live and are rooted on the land between the river and the sea. Another unbridgeable divide. unbridgeable because we both want to maintain the use of language that serves our very different agendas.

  4. Stephen – You do realise that the intransigence of the people calling themselves Palestinians is based upon the denial of losing the war in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. Since the days of the crusades, all the Arabs have known is internal conflict. The Jews arrive and now it’s a common enemy. The Arabs do not take losing very well. Your thoughts please?

    1. I don’t think there would be too much Arab intransigence or opposition to the democratising of the one state between the river and the sea Mike. Certainly in my Jordan Valley experience most Palestinians hate the PA more than they hate the IOF

      1. Yes, you are right. Anyway, and 1-state solution is not a solution because the Arabs cannot live with each other. Why should this become the Jewish problem? Secondly, the Arabs living in Israel, are quite happy with the status quo.

        1. I never mentioned a 1 state solution Mike. I mentioned a one state realty.Its merits as a solution only time will tell.

          Arabs living in 48 Israel are content with the situation of West Bank Palestinians ? Doubt it . Even if it were so it would be irrelevant. The struggle for democracy would be against them as well as against Jewish Israelis.

          David you ask important and relevant questions. will address them tomorrow.

          1. Sorry David, you’re wrong. The Arabs living in Israel are content. They are even exempt from national service. The gay Arabs do not live in fear. There many Arabs in the Knesset…. as you know.

      2. By the way, Hamas and Fatah hate each other, and neither are known as bastions of democracy!! They’ve fought battles against each other as recently as 10 years ago. Do you think peace would blossom throughout the Middle East overnight if the Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank were suddenly citizens of Israel? It’s so ludicrous to anyone who knows the history of the Arabs as to be outright laughable!!! And, pray tell, poor benighted Stephen, why, prior to 1967 was there no peace and 20 different splinter factions of the PLO, all arguing over how many Jews they could blow up? Because that’s all that the world claims to want Israel to do is withdraw to ‘67 borders and then there would be peace. Yes, there would be peace because millions of Jews would be DEAD, probably along with the 2 million Palestinian Arabs who live in and are full citizens of Israel, at least the Christian ones. Sorry, Stephen, you expose both anti-Semitism and a foolish dangerously utopian ideal. Only a more detailed knowledge of the history of this complex region can lift this dangerous veil from your eyes.

  5. It is to deter Israeli abuse and theft of land that should be a basis for the state of Palestine that BDS exists, David. None of your deceptive bluster alters that.

    1. nonsense. If the BDS position was just 1 point, over the issue of the 67 lands, you might have an argument. But there are 3 points to BDS, which means anyone pretending it is just about the 67 lands is pushing pure poppycock.

  6. These Palestinians that are in the refugee camps, David. Where were they driven from? Where did they live for centuries?

    1. Why on earth are you calling them Palestinians, if their parents and grandparents were born in Lebanon. How can you not see your position is absurd. Imagine the Calais camp being left to rot. Imagine the British and French choosing not to sort out the problem. Imagine it festering in Calais, not for 1 year, not for 10 years, but for 70. Imagine the British and French choosing to leave those people to rot for 70 years. Imagine children being born there. And then them having children, and then those children having children. Can you imagine, in the year 2087, a single sane person on the planet, suggesting their persecution is the result of anyone but the French and British? Can you imagine any humanitarian, suggesting that the grandchildren born in those camps should be referred to as Syrian? Your argument is shameful.

    2. In 1945 the Jews of Europe lost EVERYTHING. Their homes, their loved ones, their money and their citizenship. Did they dump themselves in a refugee camp.? No. They just got on with it. In 1948, the Arabs lost the war. What did they do? Dump themselves in refugee camps and give up. Why. Different mond-set. The Arabs cannot take losing the war they started.

      1. Brilliant and succinct point. Many of the descendants of the Arabs who listened to the grand mufti and fled, only to remain in refugee camps to this day might well like to become citizens of Lebanon and Jordan. But the cynical autocratic leaders of the Arab league countries won’t grant them citizenship and rights, preferring to keep them in camps to use as pawns to detract attention from their own human rights abuses against their own people. It is very very much in their own interests to keep the Israel-Palestinian conflict in the world news.

  7. Your action shows how ignorant you are about the real situation in both Israel and the entire region surrounding Israel. As a retired Officer in the Canadian Forces who served 3 tours in the region and had the opportunity to both observe and have interaction with all parties concerned, it has been a no brainer as to who the belligerants are. It is not Israel. Pre conditions by the Palestinians are so bizare and unrealistic, that no intelligent human being could abide by. The reallity is that the Palestinian Leaders do “NOT WANT PEACE”. They simply want to drive the Jews into the sea and that has been publicly stated thousands of times. If you just studied the historical history of the Palestinians, you would realize that there is no historical history. They are a self proclaimed entity that didn’t exist befor 1948. After Israel’s establishment in 1948 when they were invaded by Egypt, Syria and Jorden on the 1st day of Independance and defeated their invaders, thousnads of Arabs left the land on orders of THE GRAND MUFTI, only to be promised to return after the Jews were to driven into the sea. No Arab country would accept these so called refugees into their society. Thus began the legacy of the Palestinians. The Jewish link to the region is thousands of years old and it’s well documented by historians world wide.

    1. Well said sir. Your experience in the region is inarguable….but, the pro,-Palestine lobby will still reject your findings.

    2. Officer Gardner, a brilliantly succinct summary of relevant history !

  8. David, is the ‘right of return’ for Jews who’ve lived in Europe for millenia different to the ‘right of return’ for those Arabs who’ve lived nearby for 70 years and whose homes still stand?

    1. yes of course. One is the right of any state to design- the other is an empty claim by some people who were in general persecuted by a third country and have never stepped foot in Israel. If there is an agreement, and there is peace, and a Palestinian state is created, they will deploy their own immigration policy. If they choose to offer Arabs whose descendants may have been in the Mandate area in 1948 a ‘right of return’ – why on earth would it bother me? How they as a state choose to do it, is down to them. That is their right. And once again I suggest you are missing the central point. The only person a person born into a camp in Lebanon is persecuted by – is Lebanon.

  9. But there IS democracy in Gaza. It was the democratic election of Hamas that resulted in the US and Israel imposing punitive restrictions on the enclave.

    You are correct re. The West Bank. Though ruled and restricted by Israel, the legal inhabitants cannot take part in their elections and have no say in their own future.

    1. If I am understanding you, Hamas were ‘elected’ in 2007, but 10 years later Gaza is now a dictatorship. The punitive measures you speak of, omits the reason. The incessant firing of incendiary devices in to civilian areas of southern Israel.

      The West Bank has not had a fair election in years. All the PA have done is pocketed millions of dollars. All will be revealed when Abbas is dead.

  10. Rubbish. They gained a land to move to, a land alreay inhabited by others, a land that would be cleared by Jewish militia/terrorists to ensure a Jewish majority for the impending state of Israel. Having received British army training and having kept their weaponry they were well positioned to control their own future, with the patronage of the world.

    1. Not sure whether it is the software – but your responses are unassigned – and so I am unsure what particular comment you are responding to. All I can say about this is one is that it displays a remarkable ignorance of the history of the civil conflict. Do you know that Israel suffered proportionally more losses in a single year than the British did throughout the 7 years of world war two. To suggest it was ever clear cut, or imply the opposition was not well placed to entirely destroy the Jewish enclave, is to rewrite history.

    2. This last statement is historically rubbish. The initial plan in 1917 was a Jewish homeland, not a state. The Arabs made it perfectly clear that white Ashkenazi Jews in Palestine were not welcome. It was pure racism. Ref. Arab Rebellion 1936.

      1. You are trying to argue rationally with a hate-fuelled, wilfully ignorant, swivel-eyed loon.

  11. “After all, it is absolutely true that Palestinians suffer” – not true at all, since there are none

  12. David, it seems that the/your software doesn’t nest under the post to which replies are posted. Hence confusing. Is a fix on the design wish-list?

    1. I have tried to adjust one or two of the settings. It’s standard WP software, so it should be sort-able.

  13. ” the pro,-Palestine lobby will still reject your findings.” … not findings but mis-conceptions.

  14. Mr. Abramov. You rejected the suggested one-state solution …. remember? Concentrate!

    1. The one state solution was rejected by the Arabs. Persistently and violently. They rejected it all the way through the mandate period. In the end – it was the British who realised that the two positions – Jewish nationalism, and Arab rejectionism, could not exist within the same stretch of land. Thus – they proposed partition. When the Arabs rejected this too – and not wanting to be in the position of destroying important diplomatic ties with the Arab world – the British declared the Mandate unworkable and handed the problem to the UN. 100 years of persistent Arab violence against Jews – has left us in the situation we are in now. The Jews have their state – the Arabs lost the wars in which they tried to destroy it. There is no going back. Moving forward we need to find a solution to the problem that does not give up Jewish security to those that seek to destroy it.

  15. “The punitive measures you speak of, omits the reason.” No. As indicated, the reason was the democratic election of Hamas.

    You just haven’t understood my West Bank reply. THEY ARE RULED BY ISRAEL YET ARE ALLOWED NO PART IN THE ISRAELI ELECTIONS!!!

    1. Sorry – This is your perception of the West Bank. The West Bank is ruled by the PA. There is no question about that.

    2. Democracy is more than just one election
      Democracy is a fact only after the peaceful handover of power after multiple elections
      Democracy is the following of the rule of law by the use of open justice in independant courts run by a free and independant judiciary that can challenge the government (or ruling dictatorship in the case of Hamas)
      Democracy is the ability of individuals to challenge the rulers/govrnment without fear or favour.
      Hamas fails on every rule and action that defines a democracy.
      Again, winning one election over ten years ago does not make Hamas a democracy

  16. Shake the Zionist mind-control, George. Attempt a sentence without the word ‘hate’.

  17. Britain had just endured years of war against Germany. That, coupled with Jewish terrorism against them by the lauded(by Israel) Begin and Shamir thet did withdraw. THe US threatened(a la Trump) countries into voting for the creation of the state of Israel.

    Strange how Israel embraced those terrorists isn’t it? It’s a dirty word there now.

    1. Mike – Begin’s Irgun was a lot smaller than you imagine. Also, the US was convinced at the last minute to vote for ratification. They didn’t “bully” anyone – they were anti-ratification until the last minute. It was the USSR that was the first to vote for ratification. Truman overruled the State Department, after being convinced by his childhood friend, who was Jewish. Also, learning that the USSR was to vote in favor, the US felt they had no choice but to so as well, lest their Cold War foes gain control of the region. Remember, the new State of Israel was mostly Socialist until the 1970s, (Kibbutz members dominated the elite in government and the military, and the Kibbutz was the example of a purist Socialist/Communist experiment) and the USSR felt they were naturally ideologically aligned.

    2. Both Irgun and Lechi fought against the British military. That does not make them terrorists.
      Lechi responded to Arab terrorism against Jewish civilians by attacking Arab civilians. Whether responding to terrorism with the same methods as those employed by the terrorists makes that reaction terrorism is a mute point.
      I believe that actively and intentionally targeting civilians is terrorism. The attacking of the milatary is different issue.
      Therefore Lechi and Irgun fighting the British army and military /civil government was definately not terrorism; especially as the British Mandatory Authorities were doing their utmost to thwart the original terms of the Balfour Declaration and the resulting Mandate and its terms

      1. No – they did thwart them, and were in complete breach. By 1936 at the latest they were an illegal occupying force.

  18. So, George doesn’t know jusf what Begin and Shamir did? Ignorant of Israel’s inglorious history then. Thankyou for that admission, George.

    1. You sad sad ignorant creep. Israel rebelled quite gloriously against unlawful foreign invaders.

  19. The West Bank is ruled by Israel. Policed by the PA on Israel’s behalf. The IDF can, at any time, do whatever they want in all of the areas; A, B and C. They can even build Jew-only settlements in one of the areas, and YOU say it’s ruled by the PA? You need to become informed, Mike.

  20. …. and Israel follows Oslo, which gave Israel full military control over area C … NOT ownership?

    Israel ignores Oslo’s spirit.

    1. The PA has been ignoring the spirit and the letter of Oslo every single day since Day One, you pathetic creep.

  21. ” Israel rebelled quite gloriously against unlawful foreign invaders.”?

    Isn’t that what the Arabs are doing when Israel builds its illegal settlements, George?

  22. George, good morning from the Jewish State. I see you have encountered La Mikey. If you are a follower of David’s excellent and admirable work you will know that the comment section is often visited by a certain type of self interested contributor who opts in to give his or her axe a good grind. Bellers is the more professional of the resident trolls and mostly comes here to vocalise various personal grudges he holds. In the unlikely event that you wanted further information on this he has a blog which is mainly used to air these grievances against named individuals in a way that is normally the reserve of teenage girls that have just been dumped. Mikey is a different kettle of fish altogether. He has freely admitted to being a Jew Baiter in previous contributions and has very little knowledge of the issues on which he comments outside things he reckons and op-ed pieces from the Gruniad. This much is obvious from his posts. Unlike the abovementioned Bellers he claims to come here to counter David’s positions but as you can see spends very little time actually countering. He and others like him are relatively ineffective and their feeble tactics are barely a deflection from the body of work. In fact, reading the conversational thread here you will see that when they get even vaguely close to the issue they are so badly let down by their fragmented thought processes, anecdotal evidence and obvious knowledge gaps that they simply amplify the quality and precision of David’s endeavours. Much like the Arabs that they pretend to support they tend to shun original thought and have absolutely no interest in serious debate.

    It is impossible to comment on any BDS issue without thinking back to the comments made on the BBC by one of their sympathisers, the UK Director of War on Want. Debating the SodaStream affair the guy, paid to work towards the eradication of poverty, indicated that was more concerned about illegal Israeli occupation than in the provision of jobs, fair pay and conditions to thousands of people who would otherwise live in poverty. The transparency and mendaciousness of that guy and many like him are the reasons that BDS will have disappeared in 5 years time and Lorde’s managers will be left ruing a lost payday.

    1. Hello, Ian. Thanks, I know about the pathetic Bellamy’s pathetic ‘blog’ 🙂
      One could also mention Pappe’s admission about his attitude towards historical facts.
      It’s hilarious (in a way) to see the impotent fury of thick ignorant creeps like Mike, who – like 4-year olds – believe that if they shout ‘illegal’ long and hard enough, it will become true.

      1. I sound like Lord Haw Haw eh Bellers with my thick Israeli accent?

        Hmmm.. well I do have an Aunty Joyce but we don’t speak. My only other connection with Irish fascism has been the occasional visit to your site to see the Grudge of the Month Centrefold but I suppose that’s a bit tenuous really.

          1. Oh come on Bellers. Who were your hosts when you were doing the Bedouin Brickying during your alleged three tours of duty? They couldn’t all have had Irish accent could they?

          2. The creep is so ignorant he doesn’t even know about the Israeli accent, but fancies himself an expert on Israel.

      2. Goodness, it took some time for this creep to resort to ‘Nazi’ insults, but in the end the mask slipped.

    1. There you go George. This is what passes as countering. Like playing chess against a computer set at level one, it’s not very challenging, is mostly unsatisfying but you’ll always get the win. Back to topic, Ms Lorde notwithstanding, it’s also why the Jewish State consistently wins so much more than it loses. The massed ranks of BDS, their phalanx of bedroom – dwelling media responders and supporters are just so inept and will take their place at the foot of a very long list entitled “They had a go and failed”

      1. You can see their spittle-flecked impotent rage from here. Sad, sad Bellamy and Mike. What utter losers.

  23. Knowledge is knowing that they are illegal.

    Ignorance is not knowing the Conventions that forbid it.

  24. Jewish Historian Benny Morris can find no evidence of the famed broadcast for the Arabs to flee. Their villages were destroyed, over 500 of them. Sderot itself was built on the land that once housed Najd, its population having been expelled by Jewiosh militia.

  25. “Stephen, by wishing for one state instead of two, you expose your (conscious or unconscious) underbelly of anti-Semitism, as you know full well it would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish State”

    Don’t you mean ‘anti-Zionism’ in the second line, Nat? Not the same as ‘anti-semitism’. Suggest that you are coming across as racist.

    1. I have never advocated for one state and bear no responsibility for it having come about. Whatever the consequences it will be a case of Israel, having made its bed, will just have to lie on it. I can’t waste precious sympathy on Israelis, when there are so many more deserving cases.

    2. After the towelings you’ve been receiving here you’re picking your battles more carefully now Mikey and avoiding taking issue with the existence of the Jewish State. We will assume that you accept this now. Progress indeed. It’s a small win but at this rate we’ll have you singing the Tikva by the weekend.

  26. I shall read ‘Israel’ for your ‘Jewish State’ that currently contains a Jewish majority. Israel’s move next.

  27. The ignorant idiot is continuing with his ‘illegal’ nonsense, being too thick to understand the meaning of ‘high contracting party’, the legal (non-) status of the green line, San Remo and the words in the so-called ‘Conventions’.

  28. Should Israel become democratic it could be destined to lose the label that you prefer.

    1. Half hearted come back Mikey. You can dress yourself up in a frock and a funny wig but I’m not calling you Aunty Shirley. Now repeat after me “Kol od balevav penimah, Nefesh Yehudi homiyah……..”

  29. Hint : The Israeli Supreme Court itself has declared that Israel ‘beligerently occupies’ the territories.

  30. “I and the public know
    What all schoolchildren learn,
    Those to whom evil is done
    Do evil in return.”

    ― W.H. Auden.

    Much more important words, Ian.

    1. We offered peace upon a plate
      They met it with derision
      And so we formed our Jewish State
      Rejecting their revision

      – Ian Kay

      Didn’t imagine you to be a fan of war poetry Mikey but then again……..

    1. I imagine Auden would have taken a dim view of you and your BDS chums and specifically your Jew Baiting antics. He actively engaged with Judaism from the late 1930s on an intellectual, emotional and social level as you maybe aware, even considering conversion for his lover Chester Kallman in 1941. He famously berated his own poetry for failing to save a single Jew during WWII and worked tirelessly thereafter to raise money for United Jewish Appeal and for the relocation of Jewish refugees in the US and the fledgling Jewish State. In your admiration for him we find something upon which we can both agree.

  31. democracy

    dɪˈmɒkrəsi/

    noun

    a system of government by the WHOLE population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

  32. I reference Israelis, Zionists at that, you continue to reference Jews, Ian. Not equivalent.

    1. Not me Mikey, our new joint fave poet. I’m pleased we share this mutual admiration. It suggests to me that you’re coming round to the idea of Jews having the right to self determination in their own land. We’ll make a Zionist of you yet. Are you ready for the next verse ?

  33. Of course amajority have that right, while they are the majority … as with the West Bank Palestinians.

    1. Ah now you’re talking Mikey and I agree. The Arabs currently considering relocation from Judea and Samaria to their new luxury homes on beachfront Gaza and Northern Sinai where they can form a handsome majority with their Gazan brothers can then self-determine to their hearts’ content and mitigate all of your resentments about the Jewish State. Everyone’s a winner. Now here we go; “Ulfa’atei mizrach kadimah, Ayin l’Tziyon tzofiyah.”

  34. Aren’t Arabs the majority in the West Bank, Ian? Yet are ruled by the Israelis?

    Strange text you sing …. Elfen?

    1. a. They are not.
      b. There’s no such place as ‘West Bank’.
      c. You are a sad, sad loser.

    1. Ryvka Barnard from War on Want said the exact same thing to me when I spoke to her at the University of Kent. It is as nonsensical an argument now as it was then. People naturally want a reason to be, a place to live, food on their table and to strive for a comfortable world for their kids. The idea of justice in the sense it is used in this conflict is an artificial construct. It has become something like a religion – that is dictated from above and requires people to go without a place to live, food on their table, and to make everything worse for their kids. That isn’t justice, it is a fake god making silly demands. Had the Arabs accepted any of the various chances for peace – everyone would be living in an entirely different world today – tell them to sue themselves.

      1. Yours is a well worn Israelist position David. Jews are entitled to dignity, independence, and something called ” self determination” which seems to mean ” We can do whatever the Phuqu we want”. Palestinians on the other hand must live by bread alone despite a very famous man once telling us that men can’t do that.

        This is not far from a variant of the racist doctrine to the effect that ” we have the happiest blacks in Africa”.

  35. Could have been a Moldovian, American, Australian, Belarusion etc. one.

    Does converting to Judaism give you an accent? Curious.

  36. Is it an amalgam of Russian, American, French, Australian, African etc. with a hint of Palestjnian?

  37. Seriously Mikey, now you’re a trainee Zionist you’re going to have to put the Jew Baiting to one side or maybe just do it at the weekends. Have you you got the first verse memorized yet? We do need to crack on now. I think George suggested a Brit Milah next.

    1. Make the effort Mikey. You said you only came here to counter. You haven’t demonstrated much of that today have you? Just some feeble personal attacks and a few half hearted insults. We’re going easy on you so come on. Meet us half way.

  38. That YOU can’t see the sense in it doesn’t make it nonsensical, David. Your misplaced arrogance will keep many things from you in your life.

    1. Don’t be intimidated Mikey. You’re an honorary Zionist now so count your blessings fella. We’re the chosen people. We’re going to run through the basic steps of the hora tomorrow so bring your dancing shoes.

  39. If I’m not going to embrace Judaism, Ian, I’m certainly not going to embrace one of its mutated cults am I?

  40. Just like your Arab chums eh Mikey? Looking a gift horse in the mouth as usual. Rejectionism may be your default setting but it’s no way to live is it?

  41. Can’t we at least get some intelligent trolls here, instead of these 2 pathetic thick creeps?

          1. Brilliant!! A lovely tune about a bunch of dafties that fancied a scrap on the other side of the world but didn’t do enough research into the side they should have been fighting for. Is this the soundtrack to your autobiography Bellers?

            1. I am not narcissistic enough to write an autobiography Ian. And if I were I would be too lazy. I am good at epitaphs though

              Here lies Ian

              Who was alive and now is dead

              Like it ? Did I miss anything out ?

  42. Besides vacuous, mediocre one liners, are you not capable of even a minoe form of intelligent argument.
    Mike, you are tiresome. Give us aq break son

  43. Now, come on people. Don’t be too hard on my Mikey. You can only play the hand you’re dealt and as you can see he’s not holding a full deck . We have to play the long game with him. After all it’s taken 3000 years of unbroken presence in our land to get to this point and the old booby still thinks the world began in 1967. I’m working on him and am confident that he’ll be nibbling garinim and queue jumping in the bank by tea time. Anyway I think he’s got a soft spot for me so play nicely. Anyway, I’ve got a busy day today to I’m not going to be able to look out for him if you’re mean.

    1. Shush now Mikey. I’m here now. Are the rough boys being mean to you? I did warn them this morning about this. Not to worry. Lets sit you down over here. You can play in the bricks with Bellers and I’ll get you a nice warm Ribena. Now, I’ve got some errands to run so you be a good boy and I’ll be back to see you very soon. Mwah.

  44. Bellers my boy, What about answering the basket case question; or is it still to difficult for you

  45. Before you seek to become physical, Ian, I ‘m not gay, and find your views abhorrent.

    1. Mikey really now!!!! It was obviously a mistake leaving you alone for so long with Bellers. All those funny ideas of his are rubbing off on you. We don’t make homophobic remarks like that in company do we? It’s very rude. Now I suggest you apologise to David and the others and then we’ll hear no more about it.

  46. Texas – another place that Bellamy dreams about from his mum’s basement, like his delusion that he’s been to Israel.

  47. Thanks for your post, Ian. You, true, to form, you took a statement of fact and declared it a hate crime, much as those, eg. David, who CLAIM antisemitism in every action.

  48. Mikey, I’m not going to tell you again. Nobody wants to hear about your sexuality although there’s nothing to be ashamed of. If you want to get something off your chest we can discuss it privately with no harm done. Now stop carrying on and let them discuss things properly.

  49. I think we can all be grateful for that Mikey. Now put it away and go and tidy your room.

  50. “If Israel was not a thriving Jewish state that sought peace,”?

    But it doesn’t seek peace. It seeks domination. It seeks to expand over the land of Palestinians.

  51. Mikey, that’s enough from you; homosexuality, domination what is going on with you today? This is a blog for sensible discussion about important issues not one of your smutty adult sites. I won’t tell you again.

  52. “But it doesn’t seek peace. It seeks domination. It seeks to expand over the land of Palestinians” – delusional bollocks, every word.

  53. Have you no eyes, George? …… no knowledge of Israel’s actions? …. no mind to realize?

      1. Sorry George, I stepped out for a few hours and left Mikey unsupervised. He can be quite fractious, especially if he has too much sugar in his Ribena. I shall be taking him in hand and I assure you I will be having words with him about his smutty remarks and general rudeness. Shabbat shalom from the Jewish State.

        1. Well I learnt a lot when you where gone Ian. The biggest take home from yesterday’s enlightenment, was the denial of an Israeli accent. Apparently, Israelis don’t have an accent, and it is not possible to distinguish them when they talk in English. I’ve clearly been making really lucky guesses for years.

          1. Oh you know what they’re like here David; never let an honest conversation get in the way of a safer deflection. If you are at a loose end at some point it is curious to re-read some of this thread with particular observation of the trolls and their habits. It would contribute to a cracking case study into the role of trollery in online activism Bellers is a classic case in point. There are definitely a couple of occasions when he is so close to being drawn into a sincere discussion only to shut it down as soon as it gets too close a pain point. By this I mean a position which is so obviously challenging to his necessarily rigid stance where he is left with only two options; debate with the risk it poses or default back to safety net comprising but not exclusive to (1) not arsed, (2) wouldn’t waste my time, (3) my anecdotal evidence is truer than yours (4) that bloke you once stood near is a fascist, a pretend Jew and possibly a bent lawyer (5) some pseud’s corner quote from an obscure source that proves a point that only exists in his mind. Bellers is well versed in these tactics as you’d expect from someone with his raison d’etre for being here. However it is fascinating that from time to time you must strike a nerve with him and cause him to break ranks only momentarily to engage before he checks himself and re-calibrates. Admirable self discipline really. The others are pale imitations and barely worth mention in their own right save for the obvious aping. Mikey is a good example of this and whilst I am only just sad enough to have observed this on a superficial level he definitely seems to activate when prompted by a more alpha troll and amplifies when encouraged. He and his like are less interesting as they display far more obvious and transparent behaviour. It is interesting to note that even when shielded by the anonymity of social media there is still a latent cowardice in their approach that may come from the insecurity of their positions. All in all a very instructive half hour spent over a cuppa and a bowl of Frosties in the early hours of a cool Friday morning in the Jewish State. Shabbat shalom.

            1. You’re right – it is difficult to keep up at times, and for some obscure reason writing the next blog or getting on with another chapter in the book, is always a priority over ‘what has Mike said this time’. So I sometimes scan messages just to make sure it hasn’t completely gone off the rails, but little more. The ‘nailing down’ the sincere discussion bit is spot on. Sometimes I get the ‘good question – will respond tomorrow’ response, but only in a world in which tomorrow never comes. Big picture – over 200 comments – who would want to go through that, just to sort out the 4 with nuggets in them.

              1. I decided it needed a fuller response than is reasonable on a blog comment David. I am working on it. I am doing the BDS bit first.

                Ian if you think debating on a blog spot poses risks you maybe should try getting out of the house. There must be a road nearby you can practice crossing.

                1. Classic Bellers! Seriously, check back though your remarks in this thread. You’ll see how close you get a couple of times to getting involved properly as opposed to the usual wanky game-playing. Honestly it’s really apparent and was very interesting to watch. “he’s going…he’s going….no…he’s bottled it again.” Seriously I’m not in character now. You do seem quite bright comparative to the other trolls here and I imagine you’d also like a break from character to have a proper, challenging discussion once in a while. Up for it?

                    1. Not with me Bellers. I’m not in your league with this sort of thing and far too narcissistic to be found wanting. It’s a bit weedy really, nevertheless I think that it would be really interesting to follow a thread in which the contributors engaged sincerely from either pole of a spectrum with honesty and mutual respect. It’s a bit of an ask I suppose given the role you’ve taken for yourself here but that’s the challenge I imagine.

                2. Hey – I also am putting the finishing touches to a piece on BDS. We should compare notes.

  54. ” I’ve clearly been making really lucky guesses for years.” … and jumping to fanciful conclusions.

  55. I think your priorities are spot on David. Readership and shares do one job. Volume comments comprised in large part of one line trollery does another. Perhaps you should offer Bellers a free season ticket, Mickey too, but charge him and see if he spots the irony.

  56. Anyway, ignoring the distractions, the blog has as a title ” Following the hate…”.

    What hate? …. and from whom?

  57. Is it your birthday David? Mikey’s wrapped up a gift for you with a great big bow on top.

  58. Mikey you daft booby. You claimed that you only came here to counter David. What are you countering? Typically you’ve not thought this through have you? With very little respect you really are hopeless at this trolling lark. Do you really think this is your thing?

  59. You are mindless
    As someone said, you occasionally let your mask slip and start an intelligent conversation before you get hold of yourself and revert to playing stupid
    Playing stupid definatelly takes more effort than being normal; so be a good lad and answer the question ‘why do you call Israel a basket case’
    Your lack of answer so far signifies that you accept the error of your ways, and that you accept that Israel is a highly successful endevour in an otherwise very bleak and dystopian environment.
    Do try to be a big boy now

  60. Silly and meaningless comments.

    Israel has a world class stand alone economy.

    ,Israel receives milatary assistance from the US with severe limitations and strings attached. All the money has to be spent in the US which is in effect a form of government subsidy to American labour. The US also gets valuble research from Israel at a fraction of the price of the same done stateside. A mutually beneficial relashonship

  61. Standalone and Israel? Strange to see them in the same sentence.

    This subsidy gives Israel over $3,500,000,000 of advanced military equipment to test on its neighbours every single year.

    1. Tests are going well Mikey thanks . Iron Dome has been a huge success in live tests, similarly David’s Sling. Our advanced drone technology ensures we risk less Jewish lives against Arab terror and our anti tunnel detection is killing them as they attempt to infiltrate our borders, literally. So, full export order books, loads of dead terrorists, minimal Jewish casualties and a general happiness descending on the Jewish State for another year. Must be hugely disappointing for you but them’s the breaks eh?

    2. Does the lunatic Mike not get bored, spewing his ignorant demented nonsense on and on and on?

  62. The Israeli economy receives no subsidy from any other nation.
    It is the most successful economy in the entire MENA region.( until recently it had no natural resources like oil and gas)
    The military aid Israel receives from the US is just that, military aid’
    When the genoicidal anti-Jewish dictatorships surrounding Israel make a proper peace there will no longer be a neccesity for that military subsidy.
    I do not expect you to umderstand that due to your obsessive anti-Israel mania.
    Remember; opinion is not fact,, and your anti-Israel obsession is mostly a unverifiable diatribe using noise to disguise lack of intelligent argument

    1. Richard, an excellent summation for David’s many readers who are reasonable and sensible enough to consume content from all sides of the debate and then weigh it against their own independent research. For this reason it is entirely lost on our Mikey.

      As we know he is on,y here for what he calls ‘countering’ David but he doesn’t really do much countering as you can see. He adopts the classic 3 step troll device (1) Make some bizarre point (2) Ignore any response entirely (3) Close with a personal attack.

      He has also freely admitted to Jew Baiting in previous threads and I think that tells you as much as you need to know about his motivations here and the value of any sort of engagement with the old dafty.

          1. Harv neither Tony nor I can stand Lansman. More than anyone he is responsible for this Labour problem with Jews bullshit and the purges.Who cares what some obscure ” Lady” or other said to Lansman.

            But thanks for biting, better luck next time.

            1. No bite . Just thought it would be an assist for an antisemite against another antisemite via a third.

              1. Harv it is good to be wanting to be helpful. However, if you ever are going to be you need to pay more attention and realise that that there is a whole big world outside the narrow cramped categories you are unable to get out of bed without the aid of.

                BOO

  63. “The military aid Israel receives from the US is just that, military aid’” …… A.K.A welfare.

    “opinion is not fact”. My perceptions may be True/False. Richard’s perceptions may be True/False.
    Agree?

  64. Ian Kay – “He has also freely admitted to Jew Baiting in previous threads … ” This is a recurring illusion from a muddled mind and has several times been trotted out. Present the post/text, Ian., it may cure you.

    p.s. the title of this blog includes “following the hate”. Countering,I asked David what hate and from whom. I have received no reply.

    1. This is what I was talking about Mikey. You say something, then deny it, then ignore responses, then insult the responder. Unless of course this is simply an extension of your Jew Baiting. Are you doing it now?

      As I’ve suggested before you need to have a word with Bellers about ‘countering’. He’ll put you straight on this and believe me, you need the help. I think you’ll get on with him.

  65. Juts taking you at your word Mikey. Are you now saying you are no longer a Jew Baiter?

  66. Look Mikey, by all means insult me to your heart’s content but as much as you protest, there is no denial is there?

  67. Thank you for the clarification Mikey. Now, having gained confirmation of what you are not, perhaps we can establish what you are.

  68. (sigh) Just read the responses before you post Mikey rather than just ignoring them or imagining what they may say. And do yourself a favour. Nobody has done comedy Yoda speaking since 2003.

  69. Labour doesn’t have a problem with antisemitism, true enough.
    It brushes it under the carpet.
    Problem gone.

    1. what platform are you using Mike, because you seem to be the only one unable to embed comments?

      1. David, I am prompted to posts via Outlook. I usually choose [reply] in that e-mail. Seems that if I choose [reply] within the post on the blog page itself my reply does indent.
        Cheers for the nudge.

    1. But George, antisemitism is treating Jews worse or lesser just because they are Jews, isn’t it?

      Dishonestly it has been diluted to include criticism of aggressive Zionism, Israel and just about anythjng that pro-Israeli lobbiers choose it to mean. Is the modern usage any worse than disliking Scotsmen, Negroes, Buddhists or any other group?

      1. You don’t even have the slightest notion what the term Zionism means, you pathetic creature.

  70. Suggest, George, that it means Jewish control over the state of Israel irrespective of the ethnic make-up of the population, currently a Jewish majority. It may well be a temporary aspiration.

  71. Mikey, I asked you a direct question recently to which you were good enough to respond. I asked whether you were a Jew Baiter and you replied that you were not. For the purposes of productive exchange I will take you at your word on this. In the spirit of this rather uncharacteristic sincerity I have a follow up question and you must believe me when I say that I ask it honestly and with no edge or intent to slur but simply to clear something up which is far from apparent from your contributions; When you post here do you do so as a troll or do you really believe the things that you post?

    1. It’s both. Mike is a troll who uses deflection when called on his obsessive nonsense.

  72. Thankyou. Now that wasn’t difficult, was it?

    Yes, when I post I am giving you MY opinion, MY perceptions on the subjects, Ian.

  73. One of my more sustainable new Year resolutions Mikey was to spend less time on those blog comment sections in which people simply call each other names ad infinitum. It is very boring, totally useless and in a relatively short life is a waste of time. I fully appreciate that the subject matter presented here promotes very strong feelings amongst those that care either way. Believe me that David is unusual in the space in as much as he attempts to present his material in a manner that is fair and honest and with a high degree of integrity. He is prepared to debate inclusively with all comers in an sincere and reasonable way and if you are an active contributor to sites of this type you will know that this is not always the case. For this reason i admire David’s work and his methods. I believe that his place in this ecosystem ought to be encouraged by those on either side of the debate that sincerely want a discussion, a place to air their views and a place to listen respectfully to the counterpoint and challenge appropriately. All too often people’s intuitive defensiveness of their positions and anger at their opponents reduces these places to a childrens playground which I know is the aim of some. I was unclear of your position but you have clarified it now and again I accept your word. Given our relative positions I suspect that it may be highly unlikely that we ever find common ground. However I am prepared to listen respectfully to proper discussion and respond sensibly when afforded the same courtesies. Who knows? It may make for a more stimulating and enlightening experience.

  74. military aid is not in the form of money
    it is stricly in the form of military equipment sourced in the USA
    because Israel is forced to purchase only US manufactured defence equipment, that equipment is not subject to trade bargaining so Israel has to pay top dollars for gear that it may have been able to puchase cheaper elsewhere
    US military aid to Israel is as much a subsidy to US business as it is aid to Israel.
    Fact; not opinion

    1. Don’t confuse the troll with facts, Richard – it won’t compute and its head could explode.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.