The Hezbollah flag is a symbol of murderous hate. The flag drips with the blood of its innocent victims, is etched with the tales of numerous terror attacks and is washed in the untold misery inflicted on those that disagree with the radical Islamic Shi’a ideology of the group it represents. The flag carries the image of a weapon, an ‘in your face’ statement of the way this group imposes its demands. Where it is waved, it carries a message of intolerance, of violence and of regressive attitudes that are totally alien to modern society. It is held up by those who do not respect our values, who do not believe in peace or equality and by those who simply hate Jews. The flag has no place in western society and it remains diametrically opposed to our way of life. When a Jewish person sees this flag held high, he sees in it confirmation that people support a movement that want to kill him, just because he is a Jew.

The UK government should be ashamed that this flag is waved on London’s streets.

Al Quds 2018, Hezbollah are back in town

Yesterday was 10 June 2018. It was al-Quds day and Hezbollah flags were to be waved in London again. This particular event, held near the end of Ramadan, was introduced by the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1979.  I have experienced them before. In 2016, as part of my undercover work, I marched with the Hezbollah through the streets of London as part of their demonstration. In 2017, after I had become ‘recognisable’, I donned a Keffiyeh to hide my face and walk with them again.

This year was more complicated and I wanted the freedom to be able to move around the streets without the police stopping me on every corner. I carried my disguise if I needed it, but chose to remain for the most part  as someone on the outside looking in.

For me the greatest irony of the day was the fact that just a few hundred yards away, as the Hezbollah haters were setting up their stage, thousands of women were taking part in a march to celebrate 100 years of suffrage for women.  The contrast between progressive and regressive, between hope and hate, could not have been more clear.

suffrage march

Counter demonstration and counter protest

I arrived early outside the Saudi Embassy, the venue for the demonstration, having wanted to watch the separate groups arriving.  Security was everywhere. This was an expensive police exercise and given the number of narrow streets that led to the small strip that contained the demonstrators, I imagine it was a logistical nightmare to keep all the players apart.

As I wandered around I realised that this year there was another element in the mix. I came across several local pubs with members of the ‘Football Lads Alliance’ (FLA) or True FLA hanging around outside. What raised my suspicion that they were here for the demonstration was the fact that they were all surrounded by police. As they eventually started to make their way towards the demonstration, the police worked to keep all three groups (The Zionist Federation, Hezbollah and True FLA) completely separate. Whilst the ZF and Hezbollah were face to face near the gates of the embassy, the FLA were held at the tail end of the Hezbollah demonstration.

Hezbollah demonstration in London

Hezbollah crowd setting up their stage

As 15:00 approached the two main crowds began to gather and the small ‘no-mans land’ in the middle was temporarily accessible for those wanting to directly face the opposition. It was there that Mick Napier appeared before me. Napier is the head of the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign and was engaging in a ‘live feed’ onto his Facebook Page. Napier soon recognised me, from the work I have done investigating antisemitism inside his organisation. He made a few snide comments and moved on.

Napier spoke at this Hezbollah event. It never ceases to amaze me how people who pretend they stand up for ‘human rights’ are willing to stand under the dripping blood of a Hezbollah flag. But then Napier is rarely standing far from hate.

The counter demonstration organised by the Zionist Federation, was well attended. They have suggested there were 600 in attendance, although by the time these numbers peaked, I had already moved on, off to search out a further group of Jewish people intending to counter protest.  In all the numbers on the Jewish side dwarfed the attendance of previous years and follows an emerging pattern that suggests we are witnessing the birth of a far more mobilised Jewish community.

Zionist Federation

early arrivals at the Zionist Federation demonstration

Speeches, hate and the usual faces

The demonstrations followed the usual pattern. The Al-Quds demonstration had speakers delivering messages of hate that blur into each other. Napier spoke. So did Stephen Sizer. Between the speeches on the pro-Israeli side, there was singing and dancing. The speeches on the ZF side were more in anger at the presence of the Hezbollah flag. Maajid Nawaz and Matthew Offord delivered two powerful speeches. In the dividing ‘no-mans’ land section, the sounds merged, making so much of what was said indecipherable.

Maajid Nawaz

Walking alongside the aL-Quds demonstrators, there were many recognisable faces. Mick Napier of course and Stephen Sizer. I saw representatives of the In-Minds crowd too. Tony Greenstein was there. This is the odd marriage that occurs when radical Islamist ideology takes to the streets. Just what is it that attracts non Shi’a Muslims to march under the flag of the Hezbollah? The answer is simple – when a flag dripping with antisemitism is flown, it comes as no surprise that it acts as a magnet for those also dripping with twisted hate.

Just a couple of the many of those I recognise from my research. Sarah Wilkinson and Kajsa Anckasrtrom. Both picked up in my report on the Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

Sarah Wilkinson

Hezbollah demonstration

And a reminder of their anti-Jewish conspiratorial views:

The counter-protest

Last year a group of pro-Israelis had successfully managed to stop the march as it arrived at Oxford Circus. This year the organisers had changed the format, holding the demonstration first before the march towards Westminster. This led to some confusion. Nobody knew when exactly the march would begin. It also led to a question of what the route of the march would be. What was certain was that a group of Jewish activists would attempt to stop the Hezbollah flag being marched through London’s streets once more. To this end, a separate group of about 60 Jewish activists had gathered near Green Park station to wait for them. These numbers would swell. In total about 120 activists took part in the attempt to stop the march.

What crawls out of the woodwork

Situations such as this always result in Jews being attacked by others. Jews are suddenly visible and a target. One such conversation that occurred yesterday is in the edited video below. I do not know if this woman was part of the al-Quds rally or if she was simply so incensed by proud Jewish people on London’s streets that she felt the need to attack them. In any event, it is fair to say this woman is an antisemite.

 

The cat and mouse game

That conversation occurred as we were waiting for news about the march. Thus began about 90 minutes of a cat and mouse game. The police had ‘clocked’ this large group of people standing near the Ritz Hotel and began to make plans to counteract any attempted disruption.  Jonathan Hoffman delivered the quote of the day when he said that the group had to remain ‘inconspicuous’. To place this in context, an image of face-painted Jonathan at the event is required:

Jonathan Hoffman

(Dis) information was given out to those waiting that perhaps there would be no ‘march’ at all. The police also moved personnel close to the group with the aim of containing them on the side of the street, thus restricting their ability to interfere. Yet every time there was a large enough police presence, the Jewish activist group simply moved to a different corner.

Stopping the flag from marching

Eventually the demonstration ended and the people began to march. They did not get far. In fact they couldn’t move at all. The first group of Jewish counter-protestors was blocking their way. Or at least in the very beginning, it was Mark Lewis in his wheelchair.

Mark Lewis

Jewish activists had travelled from the North and South of the UK to register their anger that Hezbollah flags were on London’s streets. After a considerable delay the demonstrators began to move, at which point a larger Jewish group gathered together in-front of the al-Quds crowd. Blocking the street. The police response was hindered by the narrower streets and it took them a while to reorganize. Frustration continued to grow in the al-Quds ranks.

These proud Jewish counter-demonstrators were heroes. Every one of them. It is not a simple thing to do, to walk in front of marching hatred. This is not what most of those participating normally do with their Sunday afternoons. But history has decided that our generation is one that will need to stand its ground. These people were not found wanting.

The police did manage to temporarily split the Jewish group, but the deed was done. There were Jewish people being pushed back as the march progressed. From this point on, those at the head of this march were waving Israeli flags.

Despite police efforts to direct them away from the demonstration, those who had been separated rejoined the counter-protest when it reached Piccadilly. The demonstration was held up again. In total the Jewish protest managed to delay the march by 2-3 hours. It was in Piccadilly that the visual effect of the counter-demonstration became most apparent. Anyone watching the demonstration pass would FIRST see the Israeli flags, watch the Jewish demonstrators singing and dancing and hear the chant about the terrorist flag of the Hezbollah. It was an impressive action that delivered considerable success.

(Important to note that many non-Jews also demonstrated against the hate. Coming out in solidarity with the Jewish counter-protest)

Not a happy bunch

A few ‘welcome’ responses from the ‘dark side’

Hezbollah disrupted

Hezbollah al quds disrupted

Al Quds disrupted

One thing is certain. If those who wave the Hezbollah flag were not happy, then the Jewish counter protestors should consider it a sign that part of the job was well done. The more important part of the work is still to be finished. To ensure that this vile flag is not waved in London again. It really is time to get those terrorist flags ‘off our streets’.

 

 ———————————————–

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This blog is unique, and the type of investigative journalism that this work requires can be intense. Antisemitism rises across that globe and this connects to the delegitimisation campaign against Israel. To fight back, we must do so on both fronts. Because of this, my research involves both antisemitism and the revisionist narrative that demonises Israel. My work is fully independent, and your support makes much of what I do possible. This research can and does make a difference,  I was recently named as one of the J100 (‘top 100 people positively influencing Jewish life’) by The Algemeiner.

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148 thoughts on “Hezbollah flags in London again, as antisemitic hate meets Jewish resistance

  1. What was the reaction from the police, the Hezbollah faction and the public to a counter protester in a wheel chair presented in front of them?

    1. The police, I am sure, were exceedingly pissed off. The ” public” I am equally sure couldn’t give a fuck and mostly were more interested in last Sundays results in the 4th division of the Albanian basketball league.

      A few , like me, would have been spending their day on their lounger in the garden, reading Sharma’s ” Story of the Jews”, breaking off once in a while to offer advice to their gardening wives.

  2. Counter chant this ditty:

    From the River to the Sea,
    Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!

  3. Socialist hitler greets and meets Arafats uncle, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem

  4. Anyone know what’s the difference between the Hizbola flags of “military” and “political” wings????

    1. Dumb Bellamy, the suffragettes would be stoned to death in Fascist Iran for not dressing “modestly”.

      BTW, If you had to apologize every time you lied, you’d be out of breath and faint.

      1. ……. and probably shot by jittery young conscripts ‘defending’ themselves had it happened in today’s Israel.

      2. Edward – I can’t read a map as I’m a Trump Voter,

        As ever, its Saudi Arabia I think you mean rather than Iran, although we can throw Syria into the mix as well.

        Gosh, its all so confusing for our ardent Zionist friends.

        1. miss chris

          Can you find any difference between the treatment of womens rights in Iran , Saudi Arabia, the Palestinians, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all the others

          Your anti-Israel animus has well and truly addled your brain

          1. Which came first?

            Crazy Chris’ anti-Israeli animus

            or Crazy Chris’ addled brain?

            See 9/11, London’s 7/7, Manchester, London and Westminster bridge car attacks, Paris’ Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice truck jihad, Pan Am 103, Lee Rigby, Daniel Pearl, Theo Van Gogh, Orlando, San Bernardino, Boston marathon, Brussels, Beltway sniper, Garland Texas, Mumbai, Nairobi, 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war, Iraq/Kuwait war, USS Cole, ISIS beheading videos led by an Islamofascist with a British accent, …

    2. Stephen dearest

      How were the suffragettes terrorists
      Did theycall for the destruction of a country
      Did they call for the murder of an entire people
      You often offer tongue in cheek bullsh-t to antagonise, but sometimes your playful little ditties deserve to be flushed away with the waste from your gut
      You can do beer boyo

      1. How many Mosques or Muslims were in Jerusalem when Jewish Jesus walked the streets of Jerusalem?

  5. No doubt our Zionist friends broke off from the Tommy Robinson Freedom March by English NAZIS’s to confront the Iran menace – I wonder if Scoffie Hoffman and Paul Besser got confused here, I mean Paul being an Intelligence Officer and all that for white supremacists in the UK – Scoffie’s loyalties must have been well tested, or was he one of the fat buggers riding around naked on bicycles – I’d have arrested the lot, including Scoff et al for wasting police time at a period when London’s violent crime rates are higher than New York’s.

  6. “The police, I am sure, were exceedingly pissed off. ” says Mr. Stephen.

    Doing reviews of events you never attended eh? Wasn’t there another bloke that appeared here doing that; giving it yards about a book he’d never read?

    Stick to reviewing Mrs. Stephen’s well trimmed bush and get your money back on the ‘Sharma’ book. The fella you wanted was Schama.

    1. Ian,

      Sharma is an Indian word, unused in rather spicy food according to those i kick around with in my neck of the World.

      As for events in London since Friday, we do have access to international news and opinion in China, and where i reside it ain’t censored thankfully, unless of course its from MSM sources – you should try a Free Press sometime, its good for you, particularly if the Journalists actually like telling the truth, rather than selling propaganda – again, we have this in China, where I’m sure our Chinese overlords are somewhat miffed, just like the Israeli Hasbara merchants gets pissed at being unable to control narratives anymore – such is real freedom!

      1. Mrs Chris

        Whats your optimum truthful news site then
        Mondoweiss
        Middle East Memo
        The Independant
        RT TV
        Press TV
        For you and your friends the list is endlessly long

        1. The BBC of course. World’s most respected broadcaster, hence targetted by the Israelists.

  7. East tiger. You’ll do yourself a mischief on Mrs Stephen’s sharp non-sequiturs getting that worked up.

    1. IDF T-shirt? Mmmmm. Just as heinous possibly as flying a Hezbollah flag, especially so given that the IDF is the military wing of Israel and was responsible for the shooting dead of over 100 protesters on their own land, and the maiming and injuring of over a thousand in that Israeli hate-fest.

      An organisation supported by David.

      Disgusting that this should be worn on the streets of London. Why do our police allow such blatant contempt for human life?

      1. I don’t think Scoffie is really an IOF soldier unless he is in Ian’s Dads Army Brigade which doubtless will be the first across the Suez canal should the need once again arise.

        1. Dumb Bellamy, offer yourself as a Human Shield.

          Hamass needs more morons such as yourself.

        2. Bellers,

          I’ll join Ian et al, but only if they promise to push my wheelchair, which is quite a drag and quite heavy.

          Saying that though, they may use me for target practice as they like killing cripples in wheelchairs – lets hope my stint is a short one (confined to a wheelchair) as much prefer to walk I must say.

          1. Nice work Chris but Bellers may need to remove Mrs Stephens tampon from his man-vag if you’re to get the full extent of your proboscis up there.

          2. Crazy Chris, Try going on a diet. Then your chair will roll more easily.

            As for killing cripples in wheelchairs, I direct you to the events of the death of Leon Klinghoffer.

            A wheelchair bound man who in 1985 was shot and was thrown off with his wheelchair from the cruise ship Achille Lauro by “Pal-e-STINIAN” terrorist animals.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer

            In any event, please offer yourself has a Human Shield for Hamass.

            1. Edward (He votes Trump)
              Sorry to rain on your parade, but unlike many US-based peers I’m not obese, quite the reverse, I’m about the same size as that other person confined to a wheelchair who was murdered by the IDF during the Great Return March – as for being a human shield, I’d rather take up an M50 thank you, which can be mounted on my wheelchair – at least I’d take some buggers out with me!!!!

    2. Bellamy now quoting a notorious antisemite and mate of Atzmon. Why am I not surprised?

  8. Anyway, I have been thinking and as is universally acknowledged, thinking is my strong point. I guess I am one of those that is said to paint graffiti over David’s work and who something must be done about.

    In reality David’s real problem is Ian. I, in fact am ( mostly ) always on topic. David writes his stuff and I comment on anything I find interesting in it.

    Ian, on the other hand, only wants to talk about commenters wives, with a particular obsession with their sanitary arrangements.

    I mean he is W.E.I.R.D

    1. Stephen, putting aside our clear political divides, and without wanting to cast any doubt over your ‘universally acknowledged’ strong point, I haven’t had a call to ‘do something about you’ for a while. Yes, there are those who see anyone who is ‘anti’ (regardless of input) as not being worthy of having a voice, but that is not a position I have or will ever hold. Having said that, I am 85% certain now that my ‘open’ policy here is detrimental to the site itself.

      That is, people are turned away from contributing to the blog because the *quality* of the comment section is pitiful. That’s the most frequent message I have received. I, nor anyone else learns or gains anything by a couple of pro’s and a couple of antis just hurling insults. In fact, *the blog itself becomes tainted*. It is that I (when I find time) am trying to address. I simply do not have the time to read every message or moderate. So I’ll change it (preference) or close it.

      1. David
        Please don’t close the comment section. Just ban the usual suspects. Bellamy, Rogers and Davy. The comments will reduce initially but will gradually increase once it becomes a more serious feature of the blog. I fully understand your noble intent to allow free speech, but in this case these three miscreants are wrecking what is one of the finest blogs on the subject of Israel Palestine. It has also exposed the systemic antisemitism of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and Momentum.

        1. Harvela – It’s not Harvey the Stalker is it?

          Just to ensure some of us are balanced with our eyes wide open, one could correspond with you about the civil liberty perils of the IRHA definition of Antisemitism and its supposed 11 examples, which are effectively a censorship on any critique of Israel and Zionism – however, why bother, for like the decent fellow he is, Jonathan Cook puts matters rather more eloquently than I, alas, its all too much you you to understand I’m afraid, but for others the issues really are critical: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-06-08/guardian-anti-semites/

        2. Yes, David, allow sick comments about posters’ wives from an Israelist. Allow the constant belittleing of the Nakba where Palestinians were forced from their homes and their villages destroyed by Jewish militia in deliberately planned attacks.

          “Just ban the usual subjects” who refute many of your claims and disagree with you.

          Sound right? Sound fair?

          1. Dumb Davy, What’s not to belittle?

            Nakba = The failure of 5 attacking Arab armies, none of which was an army of a pre-existing “palestine”, FAILED to defeat and destroy Israel in 1948, and their Nakba continues even today.

            Happy Nakba to all!!!

        3. p.s.if you ban those that disagree with you your blogs will merely be bleaching to the like-minded.

          1. “bleaching”?

            Dumb Davy had BleachBit applied to his brain. And it has been effective.

  9. Dead right Bellers. He’s a complete bastard. Ban him immediately. Send me the form. I’ll sign it and so will the fictitious Mrs Ian.

  10. David, I think that the way that this section looks now was always inevitable. In fact, looking back into the archive to check these things, it hasn’t really changed too much over time.

    Your articles are brutally divisive and naturally promote the polemic. Almost all of the current posters come here now to get a job done; to play out a role that requires nothing more than volume and repetition. This means that there is little scope for serious on-topic discussion, reasonable exchanges or any degree of sincerity.

    On the recent occasions when civilians have attempted to offer genuine comments you will have seen how quickly they are targeted for abuse.

    To sum, your opponents are only here to disrupt and deflect the threads and your supporters oblige with reciprocal and equally abusive counter ensuring that things descend very quickly. There are almost no middle grounders now and it is hard to see things changing.

    For this reason, my opinion would be that unless you have the time and the inclination to moderate this section you should consider shutting it down. I cannot see what value it adds to your work and your reputation especially when there are other options available. You have shown a huge amount of toleration and fairness in allowing all posters here to express themselves in the most horrific tones – on both sides – and I imagine that you would show the same non-censorial transparency in the future in circumstances where contributions were on-topic, free from personal abuse and hate speech as defined by you.

    1. I am not out of sympathy with Ian’s conclusion. After all the right to free expression does not encompass a right to a particular platform or a right to be listened to. In David’s position I would shut it down,

      Though what Ian would do for juvenile titillation without being able to post about commenters wives and their sanitary issues is anybody’s guess.

    2. you may be right Ian. It isn’t like I am a newbie to the way these discussions deteriorate. I am a veteran of chat-rooms and online message boards. It has always been an issue of moderation. I remember the Lonely Planet ditching their political discussion board during the early days of Intifada 2, because the venom over the Israel question required too much work from the moderators. I’d rather keep than dump, so am currently looking at different boards to see if anything can be done here.

  11. A suggestion may be outsourced moderation to a couple of ‘trustees’ . This opens up a very different problem; one of trust in transparency and impartiality.

    I imagine that the ‘cons’ will scream foul the loudest but the ‘pros’ will also need to be sanctioned to avoid the sorts of descent that has been seen so frequently. The onus could be placed on posters to behave with a visible code of conduct, transgression of which would result in censorship. That is less hard to do. Posters should also be overt. Anonymity is a tool that promotes misbehavior amongst the weaker members and could easily be legislated for in the rules. Those that lack the bravery for this, on either side and opt out will be no loss.

    If these basics could be implemented then the most challenging question remains ‘who?’ I have no doubt that the candidate does not exist within the current crop of members, any of us. With your record and reputation for tolerance thus far you do not want to lay yourself open to charges from members of overt bias via the mods. Maybe a couple of anonymous bods to start as a trial and then the proof of the pudding ….as they say.

    I think that is fair to add that on a shortlist of 1000 candidates Bellers should be 1001st and me 1002nd. He’ll be happy with that.

    1. I am not bothered what happens, when it happens or who makes it happens. Every thing changes, every thing passes. Even eternal Israel o:

      1. But anyway back to allegorical Gnasher

        He said, is allegorical a compliment ?

        I said, sort of

        He said, am I really allegorical ?

        I said, if only.

        He said, and that recently arrived nut job schizophrenic Ian , I mean Sooze , with her own private room with the best window sill veiw in the house that you are trying to civilise, is she allegorical too ?

        I said, well yes but not as allegorical as you.

        He said, well you should have stuck to boy cats where you have the benefit of some experience, I am not sure girl cats are your thing

        I said, Gnash life is an adventure

        He said , yeah thats what that rabbit whose head I ripped off this morning said. hahaha

        I said Gnash don’t you have some scent spraying or something to do ?

        He said, yeah see you later. What time’s supper ?

  12. I have just skittered through the comments made by by pro and anti protagonists. Although I feel that the anti protagonists are just a bunch of wind up merchants, the reality of all this is the freedom of speech so if the anti Zionists want to take the piss out of the Zionists, in my opinion it is an abuse of the freedom of speech. There were handfuls of Hezbollah supporting assholes in the Al Quds crowd that see murder as a solution to the Israel-Palestine problem. Anybody want to argue with that?

    1. So, opposing a racist ideology is taking the piss is it Mr Abramov?

      Well, instead of me having ago at your rather one-sided interpretation, here’s the former Middle East Correspondent of tThe Guardian, Mr Jonathan Cook, assisted by one Steve Bell – I suppose they too are both anti-Zionists, and therefore Antisemitic?

      Anyway, here’s the link to pop in your pipe: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-06-11/corporate-media-illusions/

      1. I oppose racist ideologies.

        I oppose Al Qada, ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, Taliban, Boko Haram, Al Nusra, Al Shabab, Socialism.

        Do you too Crazy Chris???

        1. Edward the Trump Idiot,

          Just a reminder, but most of the Groups you have mentioned are fashioned by the Western Elites. Indeed, did not a former UK Cabinet Minister visit a little field hospital in the Golan Territories that was run by your brave Israeli lads – she was forced to resign as a result. Alas, it treated many an ISIS fighter. Funny that you idiot.

          1. Israel treats the wounded in a field hospital and you use that to make up stories and attack them. Quite the sicko.

            1. Her first time in Syria? How did she end up there, invited perhaps?

              Photoshoot?

              1. How many British Muslims went to Iraq to fight and came back to the UK instilled with the fighting Jihadi spirit?

                London’s 7/7 ring a bell?

      2. Rodgers da da

        Cook is anything but an unbiased observer and news reporter
        The language of his contributions is always one sided and would be more in place in the op-ed pages of newspapers.
        He is not a news reporter, but an op-ed writer as I said above.
        Nothing wrong with holding a position and taking sides.
        The problem arises when you try to use Cooks opinions as fact, which they patently are not as they only ever portray one side positively and the other side negatively. Again I say that is not news reporting but opinion statementing

        1. Galber,

          One day you’ll remove he scales from your own eyes, although your ardent Zionism may make that difficult.

          Personally, I don’t see what you have to gain from most of the bollocks you espouse, or your unrelenting love for the Sate of Israel, which, lets be blunt, is but a piece of the Ruling Elite jigsaw that many of us are opposed too.

          Still, please do keep shilling for your Masters, thankfully I have none and kiss no ones backside, unlike your good self – just another Middle Class elite arse wipe in my humble opinion.

  13. When we quote ‘facts’ aren’t we relating that which we think is true, speaking our own version of the ‘truth’?

    Blogs are thus.

    1. no.
      It is a fact that 6 Arabs labourers were killed by Irgun grenades as they waited for work on 30 Dec 1947. It is a fact that the immediate Arab reprisal saw 39 Jews killed in response. What justifications all these people had – that is arguable within the ‘truth’ you wish to support.

      It is a fact that Arab irregular armies entered British Mandated Palestine from January 1948 in order to
      a, disrupt Jewish attempts to supply their towns
      b, develop anti-Jewish forces within Palestinian towns
      c, hold every position they could until May, when the British left and the Arab armies could invade.

      These are facts. When the Arab narrative ignores them in order to create a mythical story of Zionist aggression against a passive Arab population it is not a ‘truth’, it is a lie.

      The partition was historical fact. Discussing the rights or wrongs of the partition itself is not a ‘fact’ – that we can debate.

      The inability to distinguish between fact and opinion is at the root of what the Arabs call their ‘narrative’. The Jews were also guilty of this, but since the 1980’s have come a long way in removing many of the ‘myths’ they had supported as fact. This has created an ‘imbalance’. Where one side is closer to the truth, but the other is still stuck neck high in mythical quicksand. As it stands the Palestinians still refuse to accept their own agency, historical events and natural cause and effect. They created in their storybooks a devil that doesn’t exist, and you cannot make peace with the devil. Only when they begin to master ‘truth-telling’ over events of 1917-1948, will it become possible for everyone to move forward.

      Until then, you are welcome to your own opinions, but I won’t let you get away with distorting historical truth.

      1. What is the status of the assertion that the LP has a problem with Jews ? Is that a ” fact ” ?

        What is the status of the assertion that antisemitism is increasing in the UK ? Is that a fact ?

      2. ” Only when they begin to master ‘truth-telling’ over events of 1917-1948, will it become possible for everyone to move forward.”

        Do you really think that ?

        Is it not more important to tell the truth about 2018?

        Is that almost all the 2000 people killed or maimed by Israel on the Gaza border recently were Hamas terrorists a fact ?

        1. of course I think that Stephen, because there is no common ground until it happens. We cannot discuss 2018 (which is what we should be discussing) until there is a seismic shift.

      3. I think that we have different definitions of truth, David.

        Hamas operatives? Hamas members? Hamas terrorists?

        Those praying for dead Palestinians? Extremists?

        Where those truths you stated?

        1. you don’t seem to get it at all Davy. Behind every government action there are hidden conversations, motivations, secrets & often, lies. For the most part, the records of a democracy eventually become available to view. This rewrites history. One of the sides in this conflict has made that correction. The other hasn’t. Which means that pushing a concentrated Arab narrative of the conflict is to take a pretty stupid position. It is to accept that you are pushing a myth but declaring that you don’t care you are because your anti-Israel bias isn’t actually interested in what is true or factual. It is only interested in how you can subvert discussion. Which is why you act like you do here.

  14. It is a fact that Arab irregular armies entered British Mandated Palestine from January 1948 in order to
    a, disrupt Jewish attempts to supply their towns
    b, develop anti-Jewish forces within Palestinian towns
    c, hold every position they could until May, when the British left and the Arab armies could invade.

    What makes those facts ?

    1. That it is what they were financed and instructed to do. There were additional elements that were not universal (each player had his own localised goals). It is a lie to say they were not there. It is propaganda to downplay their size, existence, motivations or effect.

        1. Hi Stephen

          Whilst you seek to whisk us off into a philosophical wonderland (below), the simple answer must be by empirical research and evidence.

          You have asked about the facts supporting the following:

          See the below supporting evidence for these facts from the paper “Palestine 1948: the cryptography of the Arab volunteers: E Tauber”

          The motivations for the irregular forces are dealt with as part of the introduction to the main thrust of the paper (on page 38):

          “The organization’s military forces were divided into three types: officially enlisted
          troops – the semi-regular mobile striking forces, intended for attacking Jewish settlements and transportation, and composed of armed and constantly mobilized warriors, who were armed and funded by the Arab Higher Committee; garrisoned troops – warriors defending their own towns and villages, partly financed by the Arab Higher Committee; and volunteer fighters – warriors assisting in the defence of their hometowns and able to provide themselves with arms and equipment without the support of the Arab Higher Committee. The number of regular combatants was in excess of 4000, assisted by several thousand additional volunteers on an irregular basis.”

          These statements are referenced by the following sources:

          Isa Khalil Muhsin, Filastin al-Umm wa-Ibnuha al-Bar ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni (Amman: Dar al-Jalil lil-Nashr wal-Dirasat wal-Abhath al-Filastiniyya, 1986), 303; Badri, Harb fi Ard al-Salam, 99; Muhammad Tariq al-Ifriqi, Al-Mujahidun fi Ma‘arik Filastin 1367h–1948m (Damascus: Dar al-Yaqza al-‘Arabiyya, 1951), 27–8; Qusari, Harb Filastin, vol. 2, 46–7; Muhammad al-Sha‘ir, Al-Harb al-Fida’iyya fi Filastin (Beirut: Matba‘at al-Gharib, 1967), 179; Tauber, ‘Army,’ 435.

          You can read the whole article here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/16161262.2013.755018

          1. Peach I didn’t ask about facts supporting the statements I asked by what test the statements were deemed to be facts. You seem to be offering an evidential test.

            As I said elswhere ” facts” don’t have an independent existence they are adopted as such

  15. “Is it not more important to tell the truth about 2018?”

    Today’s date is the only date that matters Bellers. Although the notion of truth is not something that we’re going to talk about here because neither you nor I have any inclination to that pursuit.

    David is the only person that comes close and this is evinced every day when he invites us all into his house and then stands by whilst some of us repeatedly shit in his airing cupboard.

    Truth is never going to be a currency here as you know. It is neither sought nor expected with any sincerity. If it was then people would be more interested in discussion than provocation. They are not.

    This will continue to be a minor adjunct to a useful social commentary; one of hundreds, on the way that Jews and Israel were regarded in this particular point in time. Others may refer to it in footnotes when considering wider issues like UK politics in the 21st century.

    Broadly speaking though, our posts are worthless to David ( and everyone else ) as we agreed yesterday, although I recall you did some excruciating language contortion to avoid the appearance of concession and that in itself typified the nature of posters and posts here.

    Today, the truth about 2018 is that Israel exists and that many people have an opinion about this. By close of play tonight several may have written something about it. Others will follow up their opinions with actions; discussion, agitation, violence. Most will live. Some may die. Tomorrow and the days after neither of us can say. That’s how it is.

    BTW – liked the cat shtick. Solid response to my ‘Mrs Chris’ bollox.

    1. …and one truth about 2018 is that the Palestinians can only have their own state if they agree to remain occupied and controlled by Israel.

      1. Dumb Davy, JORDAN is “palestine”, and it exists on the East bank of the Jordan river. In fact the Queen of Jordan is a “palestinian” too.

  16. Rodgers the flighty one

    You are strange.
    You accuse me of being a middle class whatever shilling for the elites.
    Well you know what; I’m proud to be all of that because the world we live in has been so enhanced by middle class values that more of the world are able to share in the wealth that has been created by that middle class.
    Poverty as a percentage of people on this planet is lower than its ever been, where less people live in food poverty than ever before, and the list of improvements is endless
    No doubt you will return with statistics trying to disprove the above, but many of those statistics take a particular issue in isolation ignoring how the world as a whole operates.
    So to give one example; more people are living in poverty than ever before, but that ignores the fact that there are millions more people alive today than in yesteryear, and the percentage of the world population living in poverty is at a much lower percentage level of the world population than it’s ever been.
    Europe is a perfect example. 150 years ago most Europeans lived and died in poverty while today it is a fraction of the population that lives in poverty; and these benefits are expanding to the rest of the world.
    I don’t expect a ‘lefty liberal neo-fascis progressive racist’ like you and your ilk to understand the reality, as you lot tend to deal in airy fairy, while the rest of the world gets on with building a better future .
    But that is life
    And I am a proud middle class Zionist that loves Israel and the UK amongst others
    So climb back into your hole of hate while we all continue to better the world

  17. Stephen

    You are a wanker
    The Labour party is a lifeless shell as are all organizations
    It is not the Labour party that has an issue with Jews; it is certain members of said Labour Party that has issues with Jews.
    Sort out those Jew hating Labour Party members and Labour does not have a problem with Jews.
    Simple mathematics to all those with even only a smidgen of a brain to do the calculus

  18. David

    One other issue that our Arab bretheren need to also come to terms with is there attitude to jews who they rate as second class citizens that should have no rights and privelages other than those bestowed on them by their Muslim rulers/overlords.
    To see Jews making a success of life while they wallow in self pity and lassitude just fuels their resentment even more

  19. Rodgers the perverse

    So Israel sets up a field hospital to heal victims of a war taking place in their neighbours territory and you find that to be a problem

    What type of perverse hatred do you conceal in your secret innermost being against Israel (and by extension most Jews) that you can find a humanitarian gesture like that suspect.

    You and your intolerant fellow travellers are really something to be pitied if that is your take on doing something as basic as offering succour to the injured of someone elses war, especially when there is no reward for offering that aid; You truly are sick

    1. “against Israel (and by extension most Jews) “??

      Richard, “most Jews” do NOT live in Israel, preferring to live elsewhere.

      The field hospital in the Syrian Golan is an obvious PR stunt. Israel has shown itself to be vindictive to non-Jews many times.

  20. Stephen

    You always were rather week on the mathematical side

    2000 dead recently in Gaza and you did use the date 2018

    Either you are losing your marbles or you are following Chris into fact distortion territory; most of the jury is out on that one

  21. Stephen

    Your question is unclear
    Reword it to make it less vague, maybe even a little specific; although that is beyond your malignant attempts at humour as evidinced by your past postings

  22. Declaring something to be a fact and something else an opinion is not helpful without supplying an acceptable test for the determimation. Otherwise the assertion deserves to be dumped into the opinion folder.
    Poor Rene Descartes made a similar error. Rene got to thinking about what he could know. He eventually came to the conclusion that he could only know of his own existence, by virtue of him having asked the question. He thought therefore he was.
    Now if Rene had asked himself the necessary prerequisite questions he would have reached different conclusions. What does it mean to say we know something, what does knowing look like etc. These are hotly debated questions, and we don’t know what Rene’s conclusions would have been because we don’t know which sides of the debates he would have come down on.

    An assertion is not a fact and another an opinion because David says so.

    Say out of this Ian you are an idiot. And that is a fact hahahaha

  23. Stephe

    Every now and then you despoil your record by offering something intelligable, rather than your normal antagonistic bum fluff.

    Either you have given up on puff or you are rightback on it in a big way.

    Just be careful because intelligent discourse and you are at odds with each other, in effect on opposite sides of the spectrum

  24. Which of these assertions in an assertion of fact and why.

    Israel exists
    I am a wanker
    My mate Moshe is Jewish and therefore has an unbreakable connection to the land
    Water boils at 100C at sea level. ( an interesting one )
    Scoffie Yoffman is the most ridiculous idiot in the Israel/ Palestine bubble ( an even more interesting one)
    At least 50 of the 62 people shot dead by IOF snipers on that day were Hamas terrorists.
    The IOF are the most moral army in the world
    Israel is a crappy racist kleptomanial basket case.
    The enough is enough demo was a spontaneous reaction to the frustration and distress of the “Jewish Community”
    One side has made the necessary corrections the other hasn’t
    Every member of the delegation has a firm grounding on the conflict history. They are also highly active in the fight for truth
    This was a group that included key representatives of Sussex Friends of Israel, North West Friends of Israel and the Israel Advocacy Movement. Yet at no point did we look out of our depth.

  25. Fishing with three rods today Bellers?

    Careful of Chris. “…any stick I can find to beat them with.” Don’t want his clammy mitts on your rod.

  26. Mrs Stephen; “Here’s your tea love; pie and gravy liked you asked for.”

    Mr. Stephen; “You say pie and gravy but I’ve only got your word for it. Is that an assertion of fact and if so why? “

    Mrs Stephen; “Look love, I’m not going through this every tea time. The wrapper said it was a pie, it looks like a pie and if you stop your jabbering and get your gob round it, it will taste like a bloody pie”

    Mr. Stephen; “Things are never as they seem though and pies never exist as fact entirely in isolation. They are adopted as such”

    Mrs. Stephen; “Right, I’ve had enough of this for one night. I’m giving this to the dog.”

    Mr. Stephen; “That’s not a dog. It’s a cat.”

    1. Not sure that a Zionist citizen of a state that labels settlement goods as ‘Made in Israel’ and insists the Golan is theirs should be discussing ‘facts’.

    1. Coincidence you mentioning your survival. Sid Applebaum touched on the same subject recently.

        1. That’s lesson 8 in the Hamas field-craft training, when walking under 5th floor balconies with suspiciously placed fridges perched on the edges.

  27. Also the essential safety tips for the Gaza tunnelers when working too near to the water table to avoid flooding.

    1. Come on Bellers. You’ve got to be quicker. I’ve got a great one coming up next.

    2. Naw, wasn’t the water table, was Israel encroaching into Gazan airspace to bomb within Gaza territorial waters.

      Yep, the same Israel that whines when ONE drone almost enters its own airspace.

  28. Also the instruction from the quality controller at Moonpigdotcom when he sees that your Christmas card from the site only has the vertically written letters U-N-T.

  29. Think I’ll leave it there. You can get back to your pie and your mutt.

  30. Oh come on Bellers. It’s only banter. If either of us actually gave a toss about any of this……….

    1. Wonder whether antisemitic ( in the real, non-Collier sense) remarks can be classed as banter? Mmmmmmm.

  31. “Good to hear that @sajidjavid is ‘vowing’ to proscribe #Hezbollah. But it’s enough TALKING about doing something and time to start actually doing it. There is NO excuse for seeing THAT terrorist flag waved on these islands. ”

    The reason (no excuse needed) is that Hezbollah as a party is NOT proscribed in the UK. Only its military wing, which did NOT march through the streets of London.

    Was the flag of Israel, whose military wing killed or maimed over 4,000 Palestinians recently, on show on our streets?

    1. Dumb Davy, What is the difference between the flags of Hizbolas “military” and “political” wings?

      How does one recognize the different “wings”????

      I believe there is NO DIFFERENCE and claiming a flag with a gun on it is “political” is Total BS.

      1. “How does one recognize the different “wings”????”

        By what they do, Edward!

        How does one recognise a dead Gazan child from a dead Syrian child?

        By looking at who bombed the area they were cowering in!

        1. Dumb Davy – Just how does one determine whether the Hezbola flag being flown is that of the “political” or “military” wings?????

        2. Dead Syrian children murdered by Islamofascists who drop barrel bombs and poison gas on Syrian cities.

          Dead Gazan children murdered by Islamofascists when they are used as Human Shields for Hamass.

          Dead Afghani children murdered by Islamofascist Taliban.

          Dead gays and girls, murdered by the Islamofascist regime of Iran.

    2. 4,000 maimed by smoke inhalation and burns from burning tires and indiscriminate shots by Hamassholes.

      4,000 hoping for a monetary payout from Hamass.

    1. I suspect that David’s next blag will condemn those demonstrators as he seeks to lobby for the maintaining of the multi-ethnicity that distinguishes Israel fron the UK.

    2. ‘Former mayor joined protest: ‘the residents of Afula don’t want a mixed city, but rather a Jewish city, and it’s their right. THIS IS NOT RACISM’ ???

      He must be the village idiot.

    3. Now the UK and Ireland are learning about “multi-culturalism” that imposes Islamist and Third World values on those island nations.

  32. Stephen

    Offering you facts or ny other form of discourse is akin to pissing on a can of dead worms while having sex on mars with a limpet mine
    In other words a perfectly futile endevour

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