The blog on the Parliament Square Kaddish event was the hardest I have ever had to write. My research has taken me into some of the darkest anti-Jewish movements on the internet. I have got up close and personal with neo-Nazis, Rothschild conspiracy theorists and Holocaust deniers. I have worn a Kaffiyeh, walked with the Hezbollah and broken bread with people who think Jews are ‘evil’ and Israel needs to be ‘nuked’. Yet after all this, it was reporting on a small gathering of Jewish ‘peaceniks’ saying Kaddish for Hamas terrorists that hurt me the most.
I admit to being angry and sickened by that event in Parliament Square. The act was deliberate, public and provocative. It was designed to create a stir. Those involved have little cause to complain about the publicity they asked for, simply because the publicity they received was overwhelmingly negative. The stunt simply backfired on them.
But these people are still not ‘the enemy’. Those that really wish us harm are numerous and determined and deadly. The people at the Kaddish event are not ‘traitors’, nor ‘kapos’. Nor is there anything malicious in their activity. They are even unaware that they have been infected with a poison that is dripping from within the organisations that are supposed to ‘educate them’. These people are our kids. Our nieces and nephews and cousins and siblings and children.
Looking to put names to faces and then to find those who act as ‘influencers’ was soul-destroying. There was no joy in this. This type of research is one of the things I excel at, but there was no sense of accomplishment when I succeeded. There was only sadness.
Unbelievable support after Parliament Square
Recent events have temporarily distracted me from my ongoing research into the real enemies that face Jewish people. Having said that, I have received more messages of thanks over the Kaddish piece than I have received on any other piece I have done. Even more than the exposure of Jeremy Corbyn in the Facebook Group. This Kaddish action really hurt people. There was understandable anger. It was the sight of ‘our own children’ sitting in that square saying Kaddish for those terrorists who wanted to kill ‘our other children’ – the ones in the Israeli uniform- that really tore at the community. There were also a dozen messages from students who have had bad personal experiences with the blatant political leaning of community organised Israel trips. There is a slow poison dripping that results in actions like the one in Parliament Square.
We are used to receiving ‘two fingers’ as a sign of rebellion from those who are still seeking their identity. It’s okay, we get it. But this simply crossed all acceptable lines.
We have to be permitted our political differences. Not everyone can think alike. There will be Likudniks, those with a fetish for Yair Lapid or people who have nostalgic moments for a strong Israeli Labour Party. There will be those who will affiliate with movements like Meretz. On every issue you will find people both to the left and right of us all. Acceptance of diverse thought and opinion is a bedrock upon which our freedoms are built.
The issue with the Kaddish event was not simply one of political difference. Had these people sat down in a circle, sung ‘kumbaya’ and prayed for peace, I doubt I would even have noticed.
Being Jewish isn’t always easy
Following Jewish tradition isn’t easy. It means for the most part giving up on the ‘easy choice’. It is easier just to sit with your friends and eat that cheeseburger. Far easier just to say okay to the Friday night party. There are troublesome days when your plans conflict with important dates in the Jewish calendar. And damn those chickens in Asda (Walmart) look cheap. We all make our choices. For the most part the point between what we find ‘comfortable’ and what creates ‘discomfort’ is where the line is drawn.
Living in the Diaspora it is also easier just to give up on Israel. Or even to privately hold it as special but publicly refrain from supporting it. What we are witnessing against Israel is an unprecedented demonisation process that is beyond the realms of basic understanding. An anti-Israel narrative that is based on enemy propaganda and turbo-charged with antisemitism. To counter it requires knowledge and it requires effort. Just like going to the synagogue every Saturday, it is far easier just not to bother.
Sticking up for the truth
Watching scenes of Palestinians protesting in Gaza is not easy either. Even if you believe Hamas are fully responsible for the fate of every single person in Gaza, there are still far too many people who suffer the reality of living there. When Hamas led violence breaks out and people get killed, the thought that there may be innocent casualties should make us all feel uneasy. It creates discomfort. And discomfort is beyond the line that many are willing to accept.
It is easier just to join in the with the crowd blaming Israel, just as it is easier to go to work on Yom Kippur.
Not a personal attack on the Parliament Sq demonstrators
At the event in Parliament Square there was a catastrophic failure of moral responsibility. Too many of the hands involved in this event interact with Jewish children as ‘infuencers’. They are leaders in clubs, they take young Jewish children to Israel on trips. Not one spoke out publicly to suggest the action was wrong. Instead several are left publicly scrambling trying to defend the event even after it became apparent that the stunt had backfired.
I published a blog listing the names of those I saw as ‘ringleaders’, but I remain firmly against all personal vendettas. My intent was to highlight a problem and creating a toxic atmosphere that targets individuals does not address it. These people have been drip-fed a way of looking at ‘being Jewish’ and ‘Israel’ that goes far beyond forty-one naive virtue-signallers sitting in a circle. They really believe they are the ‘good-Jews’. These people act as if they possess superior ‘moral clarity’ and have turned ‘being Jewish’ into a modern universalist fad. They have been indoctrinated to create an interpretation of events that is entirely self-serving. These lessons were delivered from our own community organisations.
The blog I wrote on the Kaddish event set out to show that this is a systemic issue. Personal attacks won’t help anyone. These were not random outliers but integral parts of the community system. There has been a total loss of direction that emerges from within liberal and reform movements.
Fighting for us, not for Israel
This isn’t a fight over Israel. Whether the Diaspora in the UK collapses or not, Israel will still be there. Israel will not stop defending itself from Hamas and Hezbollah to consider the idealistic notions of a small group of young privileged Oxbridge students. As these students actively set out to distance the university Jsoc from Zionism, Jewish people their age in Israel spend those years in military uniforms. At weekends, as students here head to venues like the Plush Lounge, Israelis their age may be standing guard, weapon at the ready. Israelis do not live in the same world as these students do.
If British Jewish students want to create a world vision where they think Israelis not only have choices, but continually make the wrong ones, Israelis will not lose any sleep at night. And if these same British students unite in London to say Kaddish for the very people who tried to kill those Israeli soldiers, those Israelis will see them as nothing but fools. Having our children believe Israeli children are ‘murderers’ doesn’t do anything but reinforce a lie. It doesn’t affect Israel, it destroys us.
These people, those at Parliament Square, are just symptoms of the problem. It isn’t those people we need to be looking at.
We have to fight back
It was our job to educate them. How have we failed so badly? How is it that young Jewish people being educated in community organisations repeat the false narrative spread by our enemies? Why do they weep at the stories put out by the Hamas PR machine and yet call Israeli news propaganda? Why have reform and liberal Jewish organisations let go of Israel, simply to liberate themselves from feeling the discomfort of dutiful adherence to the truth. The truth isn’t the same as some random piece of Shabbat observance. You cannot just let the truth ‘go’ to make life a little easier.
It has become routine now. These people, the ones who said Kaddish, they are the people taking the next generation of Jewish students on tours to Israel. What message will they pass on? We need to address this poison because Jewish people have to be Jewish if Jewish people are to survive. It means some of what we do cannot be the ‘easy choice’. Not every option we take is going to make us feel comfortable.
We have to fight back. We must as Jews stand up and fight for the truth. Even if it means others may not like us for it. We can start by teaching the truth to our children.
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154 thoughts on “The Parliament Square Kaddish. We have to fight back”
” The people at the Kaddish event are not ‘traitors’ ”
I beg to differ – Knowingly saying the Jewish mourning prayer for those who would destroy Jews is trachery
you credit them with a malice they do not possess Jonathan. *Most* of the people are Zionists. You can label them with as many names as you want from naive fools to galactically stupid, but they are not traitors.
You’re being naive David. They are Corbynista type jewhate scum. And yes treacherous traitors.
you know, when I talk to people on the left, they cannot differentiate between people right of centre. They see none of the myriad of shades between a Likudnik and a Kahanist. You display the same blindness in reverse
Counter Chant this…
From the River to the Sea,
Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!
How many Jews at university, not just Jews but all students, were left wing while there because it was cool; because that was where all the fun was etc etc.
Then they left uni,got jobs and started living in the real world where things cost real money and actions had repercussions and created responsibility.
Well not all those Jews in Parliament Square will stop with their left wing/radcal politics, but evidence proves that most will become part of the societies and communities they come from; So there will always be a small percentage that will work to destroy what they were
But if you allienate all that were there, all you are doing is ensuring that all will never grow out of this anti-Israel student politics phase.
Remember that intolerance comes from all sides and is as ugly from every perspective
Oh and Zionists don’t worship Jew – killers. Wise up David. They are filthy nufascist ultra lefties scum
These people are naive and foolish and cannot perceive the enemy for what it is, but they are Zionists. This isn’t JVL. These people flirt between Yachad and Jewdas. They’re students and most of them (not all) solidly support Israel on the 1967 lines. It doesn’t matter what I think of the reality of their political ideas, they are still Zionists.
Sam Alston, Amos Schonfield, Charlotte Nichols, Charlotte Fischer, Joseph Finlay, Maya Ilany, Ella Janner-Klausner, Rabbi Leah Jordan, Jon Roiser, Rob Abrams, Rachel-Diamond-Hunter, Simon Lovick, Jake Cohen, Abigail Morris, Shulamit Morris Evans, Josh Martin ….. None are ‘students’. Several are youth leaders. Roiser teaches students.
yes, and I wouldn’t want my children going to a group or tour led by any of those people. Nor the Jewish organisations that believe they should lead our youth. As a note, not all of those were present.
A Female “Rabbi” is as real as
A Female Ayatolla
A Female Imam
A Female Mufti
A Female Sheikh
Edward has Judaism as a faith. Surprising.
You are rabid, down to the bone.
Thank heavens/Moses/Abraham (all men, and rightfully so, as we men are clearly more saintly and holy).that you are very clear on the spiritual inferiority of women.
After all, it is they who start wars, devise new and better torture techniques, develop increasingly more effective weapons of mass destruction, and flat out lie. Meanwhile, we of the superior gender are socialized from our youngest years to be nurturing, attentive to others, non confrontational and outright kinder. Thank you for leading us, brother. Straight to the dark and deep pit, the Land of Forgetfulness.
David – The Ben White book promotion on Tuesday night at AI produced a new member of Jewdas. A man in his 70s who wanted to thank Jewdas for saying kaddish for his late wife. He was vehemently anti-Zionist.
No Jews were killed by the dead Palestinians.
But many Palestinians were shot dead by those described as Jews.
Dumb Davy, Jews, Christians, Muslims have been killed by live Palestinians.
In fact Atheists,Bahais, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Zoroastrians have been killed by live Islamofascists all over the world.
“No Jews were killed by the dead Palestinians.”
And that is precisely why.
Dear Elliot, it’s so refreshing to perceive so much kindness and love dripping from your venomous words. It’s a bit of a challenge, but I strongly detect your compassion and caring for all people (“Jew-killers, filthy nufaascist ultra lefties scum”).. No doubt there is a very special place reserved for you in the after-life. But who knows where? It’s so good to see a good Zionist cling to the mercy and acceptance taught in the TaNaKh. Yes, hate is so desirable, and so comforting as it makes things much clearer and easier to choose sides with a rabid commitment. May you reap what you sow.
Noted that the ‘Zionists’ are more fractured than the main political parties here today.
there does seem to be a lil trouble at mill
Stephen, perhaps I should come back to reject the “terrorist” lie when they’ve finished arguing.
firstly, it would be handy if you tell us why you are surprised Zionists are in disagreement? Or why you needed to ‘note’ we are as fractured as a UK ‘political party’? A little insight into your understanding would be helpful here.
….. as would the long waited definition of ‘Zionism’ from yourself.
Doesn’t work here. I have covered Zionism 100 times on the very website on which you comment. Stop deflecting. I would like to know why you were surprised there were disagreements between the Zionists and why you compared arguments between Zionists to the squabbles of a UK political party.
This just shows how much you do not understand ‘Zionism’ at all. You treat ‘Zionists’ as you do a political party. A total failure of comprehension. Just like Chris with his idea that Israel wasn’t diverse, you come along with another cracker. How can you obsess about something you know nothing about.
Obsessing over a subject of which you know nothing is the characteristic of anti-Semites throughout the ages.
I think the really important thing is to ensure that these people and orgs are fully aware who and what it it is that have declared on them
I don’t think anything is being declared on anyone or anything. I would imagine any larger call to action would fail badly.
I think so too. So what does fighting back mean ?
my message is always one of communication and education Stephen, I rarely falter from that. I see much of ‘progressive thought’ as alien to me because it builds on assumptions and then removes central pillars from discussion. It acts as a religion does, which is why I see so many similarities between the movements I research and cultists.
David seems to think that being Jewish is like spending every day at the Alamo, Stephen.
Like most I was disgusted by what I saw at this event. Not only was it an affront to our brothers and sisters in Israel but it was an affront to every single one of us who has had to say Kaddish for a loved one. This was a protest aimed to shock the Jewish Community in the UK – to shock into a condemnation of Israel. But as David has said, it backfired and the shock to us, the majority of the British Jewish community is that British Jews have sunk so low, so disgustingly low as to make a mockery of the very religion that they proclaim to be members of. I am not in the slightest bit religious – I have in the past described myself as an atheist Jew and had heated debates about the existence of God. But never would I mock the religion that sits deep in my neshuma. These people owe the community an apology. The fact that one takes a wage from the community as CEO of the Jewish Museum in Camden is a complete piss take. She should be fired immediately for bringing the Museum, it’s Trustees and the Community into disrepute. And then the lot of them should be shipped to Israel to live on a community on the Gaza border. If they want to show sympathy with a ‘side’ let them know the truth of which side is threatening and which side is the threatened.
“And then the lot of them should be shipped to Israel to live on a community on the Gaza border.”
Which could mean the Jewish-Israeli soldiers breaching the border destroying an Arab village while driving out the inhabitants and building a town, renamed of course, on that land. Been done before, many times.
Perhaps call it, let’s see …… Sderot2?
Is that what I said? Stop putting words into the mouths of others.
I posted “Which could mean ….”.
Damon – Your comments come over loud and clear. Whether one is a frum Jew or an atheist is neither here nor here, so do not feel bad about your neshomoh. If this was the Nazi era, these Jews may well be supporting the Nazi movement while blindly walking in too the gas chambers. In other words, they are incredibly stupid. I do not see them as a threat, but I do see them as pathetic.
You have such vitriol to Jews that have different views to yourself. You have that vitriol BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS.
Message to David, here you are, David, real antisemitism at last.
Politics is a variable.
As individuals grow their perspectives, values, priorities change.
If we lock what are essentially Jewish kids out of the community, that’s it; they are gone.
Education is the only real answer.
And a community that welcomes back its youth after their mad flings with whatever is faddish and progressive.
I speak from experience
If as someone said, a person is in a position of responsibility within the community, then the answer is to engage the organisation that person works for; or withold support and finance for that organisation until one is satasfied with the result.
It is a big problem in the US and many organisations have had to deal with it.
Problem is to many people that are drawn to work in those type of organisations are what I call ‘lefty liberal neo-fascists’ who tend to be intolerant of any views and ideas other than their own
Whenever I see education being the answer I immediately worry about who is doing the educating. Stalin thought education was the answer too.
Of course. I mean, look what happened to you. Sad.
Same applies to the “anti-zionist” neteuri karta. Ship ’em to Gaza.
Let’s see how tolerant Hamass is with “real Jews” of neturi karta type.
I suspect that when Hamass stokes the anger against “zionists”, the neturi karta would be a easy, within reach target for Hamass’ impotent rage against “zionists”.
Wow, such a hate fest.
May I remind the HATERS we actually have something called plurality here in the UK, and actually in many other far flung places. However, such notions of plurality, tolerance and respect for others views is most absent in many of the extreme-Rightist Blogs one visits – which is why I think its morally correct to challenge much of the crap that comes out of them.
Lets keep up the hatefest please as I’m enjoying sharing links to this and shall be posting more links on more internationally viewed Blogs later today – its about time the World woke up to the fact that many ultra-Zionists are stark, bonking raving mad. And many of them post on Collier’s Blog.
As a further reminder, should any harm occur to those brave Jewish souls who expressed sympathy with the Palestinian’s plight, lets just hope that the Metropolitan Police Force are aware of who exactly are making extreme charges and issuing much hate towards persons who did nothing wrong – they deserve medals for challenging the bigots.
Oh Chris, I see your posts frequently surrounded by hate that you never call-out or comment on. Hate that you are perfectly comfortable sitting alongside and feeding. You are the person who obsesses over Israel without knowing the first thing about it. Your ‘faux’ demeanor shouldn’t fool anyone.
I’m most happy calling out the madness I witness here, its as if one of us lives in a cave and views but shadows – still, I’ll call out warmongers, callout those who have no right claiming to be of the Left, when all their pronouncements make them followers of what’s deemed the Right, or extreme Right in many cases – I do after all like matters & things in their correct place.
Plurality means persons being in their correct Groups, not corrupting other Groups, which is what the Blairite neoliberal, pro-war Brigade undertake – so honesty is of import, but lost on others, such is the world, but what’s on offer these past two days in rather illustrative of a madness that really does require some kind of attention.
Still, lovely to see the tag team of you and Hoffman in its full glory, something really to behold and shared far and wide.
you keep missing the point. You’ve done it again. I worry about you at times. I see you ELSEWHERE sitting very comfortably in sewers of hate without calling it out. Why is that?
Mr. Rogers – I am not sure you fully understand the background and passion that has evolved from this debate. Israel is gifted as being the most pluralistic nation in the ME. The UK is also pluralistic. This does not mean that we Jews, who are passionate about the only Jewish homeland (the size of Wales) in the world, that is surrounded by varying degrees of hatred, should remain silent when renegade Jews say the mourners prayer for a people that want to destroy the Jewish homeland. At the moment, there is a tiny fringe of idealist Jews who believe that the Arabs have been hard done by…..That is fine, but I will not tolerate these Jews mourning over them where the records show that the vast majority of Gazans were paid to face the Israeli army. Your thoughts please?
Wales is content to be the size that it is.
An amazing comment, and a give-away showing adamant bias and total refusal to grasp reality. Wales is not surrounded by enemies who seek its utter destruction and annihilation of its citizens. So the sneering reference by Stephen is an irrelevancy to the actual situation. Israel is quite content to be the size it is, and has shown this in peace treaties with Egypt and in peace offers to the Palestinians. The decades-old Hamas Charter frankly extended its pledge to annihilate all Jewish Israelis to all Jews around the world, until Fatah forced a face-saving revision just a few months ago to allow the P.A. to pretend to the world in English that it had a unified functioning “state” — while in Arabic its own leaders endorsed the full Hamas Nazisitic antisemitism.
“Israel is quite content to be the size it is”??
Wonderful, dismantle the settlements, bring the settlers ‘home’ and end the occupation allowing the Palestinians to have their state(as you have).
If only the Israeli gov. were as reasonable as you are.
Arabs/Muslims flooding into Eurabia prove that Arabs/Muslims are NOT content with the size of the Ummah.
That’s why Muslims are now roughly 9% of the UK and France, and growing, demanding more and more.
Looks like Eurabia is heading for WW3 and it’s unconditional surrender is in place.
Where fo you live then, the Wild West US? Ho ho.
Hi Hio Silver!
And Happy Nakba!
Back to the pig pen with you, and that’s where you’ll stay until you behave yourself.
Happy Nakba Dumb Davy!
If only. The Palestinians had multiple opportunities for a state. In 1948. From 1948 to 1967, when no settlements existed. In 2000 and beyond. Each time they refused, aiming instead to only have a state if it was born on the carcass of the only Jewish State. Why do you have such problems believing what the PLO and Hamas charters explicitly state. “Settlers” came home from Gaza. What is your whitewashed explanation for the results of that experiment? Sorry if Israel has no intention of committing suicide. Even if some settlers are wild haired (but not murderous) true believers.
“Settlers” came home from Gaza. ”
Exactly. Back to Israel, where they belong.
Hamas won the vote to run Gaza. Israel vindictively put restrictions on Gazan produce.
But the Arab settlers are still there.
Nope. The Quartet placed financial sanctions because Hamas would not adhere to previously held agreements after they won the elections. After Hamas took absolute control of the strip by violently ousting Fatah the blockade began.
Why do anti-Israel activists just spout lies all the time?
Israel didn’t place restrictions and block Gazan produce from leaving,David?
Your statement was wrong. As is almost every statement you make. I answered your question factually. Don’t try and play games with me. I have no patience for you whatsoever.
Israel didn’t place restrictions and block Gazan produce from leaving,David?
Nice straw man. Well done.
So, you don’t know?
So that’s all those cuddly ‘palestinians’ want, eh? Just a little place of their own? Hilarious.
Well, the Palestinians are currently under the control of the out-laws at the moment, who wouldn’t want to have their own place?
Nice one, Stephen 🙂
Those comments about intolerance on the right!
The intolerance on the left is no less offensive and dangerous; in fact it may be more dangerous due to the fact that it is masked in the language of ‘human rights’ and is thus seemingly more kosher than the same views of the right voiced in less pretty camouflage
Your knowledge of the Jewish community is as woefully inadequate as your knowledge of Judaism and Antisemitism
Firstly Jews do not resort to violence until provoked by threats to life and limb, and often even then they turn the other cheek Jews tend to shout and argue; that’s the Jewish way.
My impresion is that some of the Antisemitism/Jew hate today is as a result of the fact that since Israels rebirth, Jews are no longer the perpetual victims; Jews now stand up for themselves rather than taking all the sh-t that is thrown at them, and that seriously pisses some people off
All your talk of tolerance etc sort of wiiffle away when your ignorance of Judaism and Antisemitism exposes itself by your use of the use of Antisemetic memes that have their origin in the likes of ‘The Protocols’ and similar. (previous posts)
I do NOT accuse you of Antisemitism; I accuse you of ignorance
I’m glad we finally agree on something, namely I’m no bloody Antisemite. As for the ignorance charge, well any comparative analysis between Wales and Israel throws up many similarities between the Ruling Elite and power structures – in Wales my own fellow Welshmen were treated as second class subjects by their English overlords, who also happened to all worship within the Body of the Church of England – we fought this oppression in Wales and, likewise, the Irish fought it, hence my support for egalitarian, inclusive societies where all are treated as equal in all walks of life, rather some being more equal than others, which is the case you have in Israel. Allegedly I’m pig ignorant though.
You are more stupid than ignorant. Why anybody would even read such utter tripe is beyond me. Here is one of many differences. Israeli soldiers defend against those that come to kill them. Your soldiers have recently been way across the globe in wars that killed more people than the entire Arab – Israeli conflict.
“You are more stupid than ignorant”
Again David’s arrogance and hate seeps through.
The targets for our soldiers are those that kill civilians.
Israel targets the civilians themselves.
you are a bit if an idiot too then. Are you suggesting that more civilians have died in the Israeli /Arab conflict than in recent wars the UK has been involved in? I mean is this ridiculous piece of fiction really what you are running with?
I’m ‘suggesting’ that Israel willingly bombs areas where suspected Hamas are, knowing full well that nearby civilians will also perish … as Syria does.
Remind us again Dumb Davy, who TARGETED CIVILIANS on…
9/11, London’s 7/7 (Underground and bus), Paris’ Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Bastille Day truck jihad in Nice France, Manchester, Pan Am 103, Boston marathon, Pluse nightclub in Orlando, San Bernardino, Mumbai India, Nairobi Kenya mall massacre, Brussels airport, Moscow subway, Beslan elementary school, Halabja Iraq, Bali tourists, Luxor tourists, Coptic Christians in Egypt, journalist Daniel Pearl, filmmaker Theo van Gogh, Danish cartoonists, writer Salman Rushdie, Rotherham rape gangs, acid attacks, stoning girls to death over “family honour”, shooting girls in the head for wanting an education, 1968 assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy?????
British Muslims or Muslim Brits or Muslims killed innocents on London transport on 7/7 2005?
“Firstly Jews do not resort to violence until provoked by threats to life and limb, and often even then they turn the other cheek Jews tend to shout and argue; that’s the Jewish way.”
That may be the UK Jewish way, may be the French Jewish way …. certainly not the Israeli way.
Dumb Davy, Israel fights terrorism.
Eurabia appeases terrorism.
Hamass, Hezbola, ISIS, Al Qada, Taliban, Boko Haram, Muslim Brotherhood, Al Nusra, Al Shabab TARGET CIVILIANS.
See 9/11, London’s 7/7, Pan Am 103, Paris, Nice, Mumbai, Nairobi, Bali, Orlando, NYC, Garland, San Bernardino, Boston, Toronto, Ottawa, Copenhagen, Bali, Luxor, Cairo, Palmyra, …
It certainly is the Israeli way. The Israeli way is a jewish way. Your problem is you live in the UK. The media there has been awful for quite some time. When I first looked in at the British media coverage of Israel a dozen years ago I was aghast at how almost criminally slanted it was. It still is.
Gaawd Chris. This is like having to explain a joke but if it helps you to comment in a more sensible manner then why not.
You seem unaware that some of the people that attended the stunt are youth leaders from Jewish Youth Groups. Almost all of these groups organise and run summer schemes where they take children on tours of Israel for a couple of weeks in the summer. The children are normally aged around 14 upwards. These tours are essentially social experiences for the children but also include cultural and educational programmes in which they are taken to various museums and places of historical interest. They are always designed to be very gentle experiences and entirely devoid of politicisation or evangelism. This is what the parents of the participants expect and these criteria generally inform their decisions on which of the several tours they send their children on. In the last year or so it has emerged that certain groups or at least leaders within those groups have broken ranks and chosen to promote an agenda that went beyond the scope of their role and of the programme as advertised. This has caused concerns amongst the parental body. These are young leaders acting in loco parentis who are exceeding the remit of the permissions given by parents in the consent forms that they signed.
It is a fundamental requirement of each group to meet specific standards of governance in order to be allowed to conduct these tours. This includes a full disclosure to parents of the programmes of the tour and social, cultural and educational inputs from leaders and local guides and representatives.
David’s reports have identified some of the people who may be involved in the leadership of these tours and in so doing has offered information about them to the parental body to which they are entitled.This should have been informed by the groups themselves. From the tone of the responses it would appear that this has been useful information and may or may not call into question whether certain of the groups have fulfilled the minimum requirements of disclosure placed upon them.
I imagine that as a parent yourself you would be similarly predisposed to know as much as possible about any group or individual that is acting in loco parentis with your children for several weeks and seek reassurances that the scope and content of the programme meets your expectations.
I hope that this summary enables you to take a more informed position on this matter.
That is 99.99999 recurring per cent meaningless waffle.
Never mind Bellers.
99.9 is Dumb Davy’s IQ.
That would mean that I was normally intelligent. Wish to revise your assessment?
Dumb Davy, clearly you are NOT intelligent. You are sub-normal and suffer from a severe case of OCD that blinds you to history and current events.
i.e. 9/11 passenger plane hijackings, London’s 7/7, Paris’ Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Bastille Day in Nice, Manchester, London and Westminster bridges, Boston Marathon, Orlando nightclub, San Bernardino, beheading of Lee Rigby and journalist Daniel Pearl, murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy on June 6, 1968, Pan Am 103, Mumbai, Nairobi mall, Brussels airport, DC Beltway, Rotherham rape gangs, death threats against Danish cartoonists and writer Salman Rushdie, 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war, Fascist Iran executing gays and girls,Dress Codes for men and women in Fascist Iran, Hamass use of CHILDREN as Human Shields, British Muslims threateing the UK and Eurabia with 9/11 scale attacks, Sharia Law No-Go neighborhoods in London, …
Dumb Davy, were your biological parents as Dumb as you or were you raised in a depraved and deprived environment?
Nope. 99.9* is Normal.
98.6 is Normal.
You Dumb 99.9 Davy are feverish and sub-normal.
Brilliant Edward. 99.9 is sub 98.6. Fuck I love this place
Such open-mined, non-bigoted youth leaders are to be applauded, not referred too as ‘poison’, so I welcome their empathy and respect for life and human rights – so no hassles if they were teaching my own kid.
That is your opinion
If you sent your child to a camp advertised as progressive, and it was subsequently proved that it had leaders who were fascist, what would you do?
I called you a ‘progresive racist’ with reasons explained previously because you only see one side of every issue, and thus fall into the trap of the intolerance you so voiciferously denounce
“That is your opinion”
This is an opinion blog, Richard …. led by David opinions, then we give our opinions.
I have given full answers to this in my dialogue with Ian Kay.
No, I would not allow my kid to have anything to do with Rightwing political extremists – these Jewish folk are not extremists, they are decent human beings derided by maniacs.
Chris, that’s fine but this is not an abstract point. It is an absolute requirement of the groups to offer full disclosure if they are to maintain an accreditation for their leaders to act in loco parentis. It would appear that they may have fallen short here and that is a problem for them.
David’s reports have amplified this issue and caused the parental body to re-think their decisions.
Imagine paying for your child to participate in a tour and you had opted into it on the understanding that it was a promotion of the State of Palestine and its historical landscape and later discovered that that one of the leaders was a passionate Zionist who promoted an altogether different agenda. Still no hassles?
The central point of youth group governance here relates to disclosure. If it was absent then the groups have a problem.
David’s reports have amplified this issue and caused the parental body to re-think their decisions.
Which oarental body or did you just mke that up ?
Ian, what is the basis for your assertion that “David’s reports have amplified this issue and caused the parental body to re-think their decisions”?
” Which oarental body..” (sic)
The parents of the children that have registered to participate in the tours. Are you questioning whether the children have parents Bellers?
No. Cn you specify those among this body have re thought their decisions ?
Hello Josh. No assertion, simply a clarification of the requirement for compliance of youth movements, including but not exclusive to those registered as charities in circumstances where they run summer schemes, tours and excursions.
I have indicated the requirements placed upon them relating to disclosure prior to parental consent and the risks for failing so to do. There is nothing to add to this.
In terms of David’s report it appears self evident that he has amplified this requirement and as such has prompted parents to revisit the process in order to gain the reassurance that they may need. Again there is nothing more to add here.
I trust that this answers your question.
Ian, restating your original assertions does not constitute an adequate response to the the question addressed to you. Can you cite one specific case which “caused the parental body to re-think their decisions”, in response to David’s claims of the politicisation of Jewish education within Progressive Judaism?
Josh, you appear to be doing the same thing of which you accuse me. Simply restating the word ‘assertions” ignores my response. My word was clarification, in this case the requirements for compliance with the regulations in place for youth groups running summer schemes, tours and excursions and the risks of neglect thereof. I will leave others to make assertions about the ‘politicisation of Jewish education within Progressive Judaism’.
Neither me nor Gnasher can see a specific case in there.
Look Ian’s claim is that somebody or somebodies have rethought their decision(s) . Specifically who and what decision(s)
It is looking like as if at the time Ian didn’t have a country to live in he didn’t count ga ga land as a country
Its lucky I don’t associate with neo-Nazis extremist or allow them near my own daughter. However, I fail to grasp the the idea, that’s implicit in your response, and at hysterical level by Collier and Hoffman, that these Jewish folk constitute any threat whatsoever to Jewish kids, be they teaching them in a school environment, or acting as guardians on outings/visits.
I’m afraid to say, I’d not want racists taking my kid anywhere, or teaching her, never mind sex abusers – which these young, brave jewish folks certainly are not.
Evidently, we’ve now reached a new low, whereby only mad Zionists can teach Jewish kids and escort them on visits, is this what you are implying?
Now, would you want Jonathan (Scoffie) Hoffman, who allegedly is a decent bloke who means no harm to anyone, anywhere near your own child, or escorting them on visits, be they in the UK or the Holy Lands?
Rodgers da bodge
Do you not read and assimilate the information that Ian offers with his posts
Read the first line of your reply to get an idea of just what Ian has said
He is saying that the tours are misrepresenting what they are offering if they say they will do something while the team leaders politisize their contributions without parental permission
Good lad. I think you’re getting my point now Chris. You may think you know who is looking after your daughter but if there is a failure of disclosure, it may mean that one of her youth leaders emerges as a person with values and practices wholly at odds with your own. No doubt you would be furious about this and demand to know why you were not given this information. This is why regulations exist to ensure that this sort of thing doesn’t happen. Parents have an absolute entitlement to be informed of these things by the youth groups and it is a great credit to David that he is doing for them what the youth groups ought to be doing themselves.
We sign off on this stuff with the School where I reside & have have implicit trust in those I place my daughter with – I care little if her Teachers go on democracy protests, indeed I’d encourage it – as long as they are not sex predators or neo-Nazis I’m fine. Again, these people have nothing to disclose, they have acted honourably and you keep telling me they have not.
Once more, I’d be happy for them to take my child on any trip and if they wish to discuss religion, or Israel, I’m fine with that – its called education, its indoctrination I’m opposed too.
That’s right Chris because schools have a rigorous procedure in place to validate the people whom they employ. Youth Groups in the UK that organise summer schemes, tours and excursions have the same responsibilities and the parental body is entitled to receive the same disclosures and assurances when leaders act in loco parentis. You remarks about sex predators and Nazis are noted so i would ask whether you would put people in the same bracket who say Jewish memorial prayers for IDF soldiers who die in conflict with Arabs or extol the virtues of the Jewish State?
If those I’ve placed confidence in to look after my kid in my absence, be it on day time activities or actual trips, why would I object if they had said prayers to IDF soldiers or speak of Israel/promote Israel – all life is important, as is loss of life and I’d don’t question the existence off, or beget the State of Israel, I just want you chaps to stop killing each other and live in a peaceable manner where all are equal and treated equal.
Again, I’m opposed to actual deviants and political extremists being allowed to look after my kid – I may disagree with Zionism in general, however, if I stopped by child being cared for because the person so happens to be Jewish and supports the State of Israel I’d be a bloody racist, so I have no objections. I do have objections if the persons exhibit tendencies like Jonathan Hoffman, which are beyond the pale.
Trust that answers your enquiry in a honest manner, particularly because I do have Jewish peers who are Zionist and I’d not stop my own daughter associating with them or their kids – political differences are for adults to discuss, not kids.
Never in the history of mankind has so much bollox been spouted in so short a space #Ian
Aaah Bellers. Was it the “Scoffy & Bloffy” gag?
Ian my hands keep hovering over the keyboard meaning to say something pertinent but I just don’t know where to start with bullshit you have been spouting on this post. Maybe at the weekend, the weather not looking too promising
Before or after you ‘write up’ David? Will it have a five scroll copy and paste from your blog about someone that’s narked you?
Ian there you are in paradise. Eternal Israel which is destined to survive even the end of the sun’s main sequence. Why do you trouble your pretty head over lil ole us. Just curious.
Serious question or are we doing shtick?
People take a view on what is worthwhile and what is not in this rather short life of ours. You will have done this yourself. None of us reach the same conclusions so we have choices if or when challenged; Bat your corner, persuade others to think like you or demean those that don’t. I’m here to do one. You’re here to do another. The choices we make eh?
But why here ?
I once watched a guy spend hours doing one of those sand sculptures on a beach. He was really skilled and even though it was fucking hot day and he had little shade, he worked his arse off and produced something truly amazing for a very appreciative audience.
There were two lads in the crowd who’d seen the attention that the guy was getting and wanted some for themselves. They didn’t have any worthwhile skills so used the only tool in their locker and dive bombed the sculpture.
I hate shit like that.
Know what you mean. I have spent many hours watching guys and gals making mud bricks in a near eastern valley and making structures to shelter their families and their animals.
They were really skilled and it was invariably fucking hot and there was usually no shade.Nonetheless they worked their arses off and produced some amazing stuff for an appreciative audience.
Every once in a while some snivelling kids with nothing constructive to do with their lives and so were playing at tin soldiers would come along. Your son and his mates might have been among them sometimes.
Anyway having ascertained that these wonderful structures had been put together by people whose ethnicity they despised, they would flatten them.
I hate shit like that.
But anyway I was merely thinking that the Beersheba Bugle hosts some lively blogs you might have been more concerned to police those.
David, you assert that you “remain firmly against all personal vendettas”, yet, in concert with Jonathan Hoffman, you decided to publish the names of those who organised the Kaddish for Gaza. As a direct consequence of your actions, those whom you publicly identified were subjected to an orchestrated campaign of harassment and intimidation, which has included death threats. The question, David, is whether you are now prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions and acknowledge the gravity of your misjudgment?
Josh makes a good point David. You are a public figure now and with this profile comes responsibility. When these chaps chose to perform their stunt on Parliament Square in the middle of the day with cameras and megaphones you may have at least warned them that in so doing they may have been jeopardizing their anonymity. Moreover you may have had a quiet word with the ones that posted articles in online media channels like the ToI suggesting that by-lines and images of themselves may further break their cover. Perhaps filming themselves and sharing the coverage was also a tad ill advised if the objectives was quiet and respectful private prayer. You’re just another Oskar Schindler. You could have done more.
Suppose you have to mingle if you want to stalk others, Ian
There was no misjudgement Josh. The video of this public event was uploaded to YouTube. A second video live-streamed the event. Several of the people involved in this catastrophic ethical misjudgement serve as ‘influencers’ or leaders of youth in the community. I am aware of the ‘influence’ I have and believe I use it with consideration and responsibly. Many people were not named because their attendance isn’t relevant to a conversation the community needs to have. What I did, however uncomfortably it made me feel, was the necessary thing to do.
David, you claim that you have sought to use your influence with “consideration and responsibly”, yet, over the last couple of days, you have posted a series of grossly inflammatory tweets, in which you have baited Progressive Jewish communal organisations, some of whose members were involved in organising the Kaddish for Gaza. Can you explain how your actions are compatible with the norms of civilised dialogue, which you purport to uphold?
Yes David and as Josh was probably going to remind you, you are under oath.
Is this how fourth year students on Law conversion courses express themselves these days?
David’s pro-Israeli, as such nobody will expect him to honour or follow his word. Bibi and Trumpy too. Most untrustworthy.
Dumb Davy is pro-Pali, as such nobody will expect him to honour or follow his word. Abbass and AyaTOOLa Khameni too. Most untrustworthy.
Josh Robinson, Can you point us to examples of groups of Muslims saying prayers for the Non-Muslim dead and injured victims of Islamofascist terrorist attacks?
ie. 9/11, London’s 7/7, Manchester, London and Westminster bridge car attacks, Paris’ Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan, Bastille day truck attack in Nice, Pan Am 103, Lee Rigby, Daniel Pearl, Theo van Gogh, ISIS beheadings, Boston marathon, Orlando, San Bernardino, DC Beltway, Madrid train attacks, Bali, Mumbai India, Nairobi Kenya mall attack, Moscow subway, Beslan elementary school attack, Buenos Aires Jewish Community Center bombing, US Embassy in Nairobi bombing, Manhattan bike path car attack, 1993 truck bombing of the WTC (an Imam who was involved with that attack died in prison without expressing remorse), …
Except the vendetta against Jeremy Corbyn. Same as Friends of Israel MPs Smeeth, Berger etc.who continue their vendetta against him. Strange how these apologists for a state that shoots dead Hamas operatives willy-nilly, on their own land.
Amazing that they are allowed in the British Labour Party.
“I was merely thinking that the Beersheba Bugle hosts some lively blogs you might have been more concerned to police those.” says Stephen.
As long as there are more tales of ‘Scoffy & Bloffy do Gap Yaar (minus 3 months)’ I have to stick around.
That’s why I support the David Horowitz centre. They are fighting this battle of our time over in American universities. That’s where the rot started.
Thanks for all you do.
This is less interesting for the blog itself than for the 100 plus comments which shine an illuminating light on what David and Ian are aligned with.
Such a tease Bloffy. I was looking forward to reading about Child Protection guidelines or recommendations of disclosure to youth groups from the Charity Commissioners; anything in fact that that related to my alignments. You must have posted the wrong link. Maybe you mixed it up with one of your massive copy & pastes about people that nark you from your own blog. You know, like your yang Scoffy.
Not me Ian. I am clever enough to know the difference between cleverness and expertese. So I would not, for example get into an argument with David about the history of the” conflict.”
“Child Protection guidelines or recommendations of disclosure to youth groups from the Charity Commissioners. ” is your area of expertise.
David is at least generous enoughto share his expertise with ” the readers.”. Since you are too lazy to help ” the readers” out in this way I have done the job for you.
I have subsequently googled “Child Protection guidelines or recommendations of disclosure to youth groups from the Charity Commissioners” . And guess what comes up that ” relates to your alignments ” ? You are right, sweet fuck all. And certainly no requirement to disclose what dead folks a youth leader may or may not have prayed for.
In other words, as I have pointed out earlier you have been engaged on an exercise designed to baffle ” the readers” with batshit.
The truth matters
….Even if I can’t spell expertise…
S’allright, Stephen. David can’t spell ‘operatives’ …. or ‘members’ …. keeps putting two ‘r’s into them.
Pleased to have re-prioritized your focus onto the protection of vulnerable kids for a few seconds. We’ve got all the time in the world to do the regular nonsense.
Have you got your non-contextual copy/paste about Scoffy ready as the first response to the next piece?
Ian, I’m gonna buy a bagle in readiness for Davis’s next attack. Wouldn’t want to be accused of antisemitism for never having eaten one.
Think I’ll buy a beigel, too.
David gets a dishonourable mention
I’ll have you know that David is aware of ‘the influence’ he has, Stephen. 😉
Kicking sand in peoples faces again Bellers?
“…. Israeli children are ‘murderers’”……… Isn’t that ‘…. Conscripted and ordered to be ‘murderers”?
Ask yourself the same question
You miss the point entirely
The parents of some of these children are led to believe that they will be in a particular environment, while certain of the staff educate and lead with an agenda totally at odds with what was expected.
If your child went into a situation like that, and you were only aware of it after the event, I have no doubt you would be pissed of because of the misrepresentation.
And it happens to the best of parents, because it is caused by misrepresentation – period.
Comparing Wales to Israel is akin to comparing chalk and cheese
There will always be basic similarities, but substantively there is very little common ground starting with the fact that Israel exists in a war zone and all that entails
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