Since the Palestine Live report was first published on this blog 6 weeks ago, the focus on antisemitism in the Labour Party has intensified. I am working on two related reports and continue to engage with the sewer where the antisemitism exists.
‘Labour Against the Witch Hunt’, the group set up by people like Jackie Walker and Tony Greenstein, along with ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’ are at the heart of the ‘defence’. People actively engaged in opposing all attempts to deal with antisemitism in the Labour Party.
Four days ago, the Telegraph published an article with a headline that reads ‘Jewish community lodge 1,000 official complaints against Jeremy Corbyn‘.
This was later shared in the ‘Labour Against the Witch Hunt’ Facebook Group (a few days ago, the group changed its status to ‘unofficial’). The comments under the post were so concentrated that they provide a near perfect example of how deep the problem in the party runs. I provide a full image of that post and the comments here:
It is a sickening thread. Many of the threats and dangers are contained within the single thread. The threat of deselection. There is the idea that the entire antisemitism issue is part of a hidden agenda. Then the notion that the Zionists are a cancer and it is ‘time to get’ them. Of course the ‘foreign agent’ of ‘paid’ performance is referenced.
The most troubling of them all is the point made by Alan Maddison. Maddison was for a while (and may still be) a strategist for the Jewish Voice for Labour group. He is the man behind many of the distorted claims over antisemitic statistics. In this thread he is actually suggesting the entire crisis may bring about a nett gain in votes for Labour. The claim that if Labour is seen as the party taking on the ‘elite’ (the ruling Zionists), Labour’s chances may be improved rather than damaged in an election.
This is the mindset of the people behind Corbyn’s defense. The idea that between the classic Jew-hate in parts of the ‘white British’ population and the anti-Jewish racism in sections of the BAME community there will be enough power to take this party all the way to Downing Street. Attacking Jews becomes a vote winner. If that thought doesn’t scare you – little will.
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207 thoughts on “Attacking Jews, the whole antisemitism crisis, will ‘be positive for Labour’”
Can’t see any reference by Maddison to attacking Jews. He is right in that there is no political detriment in refusing to be bullied by rabid Israelists. For my part if someones only interest in the LP is moulding its attitude to a foreign power then let them take their bat home.
“Rabid Israelists” Mr Bellamy? You are quite at home with epithets from Der Stürmer. Calling Jews names is what antisemites do, Mr Bellamy. Insulting Jews, is what antisemites do, Mr Bellamy. Trolling Jews or Jewish websites is what antisemites do, Mr Bellamy. What is an “Israelist,” Mr Bellamy? “For my part . . :” you are an antisemite. Maintaining British Jews are in league with “a foreign power” makes you an antisemitic conspiracy theorist: the “dual loyalty” antisemitic accusation. In case you didn’t know, you conform to the IHRA definition of antisemitism, Mr Bellamy, which the UK has adopted. So now, you can be known as “the antisemite Bellamy,” Mr Bellamy. That is, in case anyone didn’t know, Mr Bellamy!
Bellend is an idiot who posts his hysterical nonsense all over the Internet.
Mr Zionist the IHRA batshit thingy doesn’t apply to me.
And sanity, honesty, don’t apply to you either.
You did not see any reference to attacking Jews, because like Maddison. this is your mode of attack and you resent it being exposed to the bright light of inspection.
Again you alude to the anti-Jewish conspiracy theory of Jews having dual loyalties and working for a foreign power.
Most Jews are acutely aware of history and the way Jews have been maltreated and abused by every country in Europe, The Middle East and North Africa, and therefore will always have an extremely favourable and positive attitude to Israel.
The existance of Israel has improved the lives of Jews throughout the world (diaspora and Israel).
Jews have been able to live both their religion and peoplehood/nationhood in the open for the first time in +/-1800 years becausae of Israel and this seriously disturbs the Antisemites/Jew haters that resent the fact that their Jew-baiting past-time have been dramatically reduced
Indeed. You can smell the rage – How very DARE mere Jews answer back???!!!
Counter chant this…
From the River to he Sea,
Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!
“There is no political detriment in refusing to be bullied by rabid Israelists.” I am sure that, give or take a word or two, you would find precisely the same sentiments in Mein Kampf. It was repugnant then and even more so now. This is the cess pit that the regressive left wallow in and it stinks! And, yes, this is very frightening, indeed.
I have the advantage on you Jose. I have read Mein Kampf.
You see Jose all this batshit impacts on the LP’s electoral prospects not one iota. Here’s why. Joe in the street instinctively knows that it is batshit. Its like using Nazi analogies in discourse about Israel. Joe just doesn’t buy it.
And anyway since David is about to pull out 200 pages attacking Jews it ill becomes him to whine about Jews being attacked.
“I have read Mein Kampf.” Why am I not surprised??!!
” Norm” you have defamed me publicly. Get this taken down or I will be exploring my options on Monday afternoon. ( I don’t like to get up too early)
As usual, Mr Bellamy, you display the same arrogance of your previous musings, all of which demonstrate you have a “batshit” understanding. I can understand how you are envious and jealous of David, but your repeated nonsense is just that: nonsense or antisemitic nonsense, which makes you a smelly antisemite, since antisemitism is a sewer!
Mr Zionist that is a category mistake And that is all you are going to get for free.
But anyway how about Gary Spedding’s latest crowd funding effort. He does this periodically. Last time got 50 squids in four months. The guy is such a hoot. The lengths he will go to, to avoid getting a job.
Engaging with Bellamy / Armbach “ this way madness lies”
So true, Harvey. But he is right when he says his bigoted antisemitc friends don’t care about antisemitism, not when their ‘dear leader’ is waiting in the wings to force march us all back to the 1970s. While Mein Kampf is a warning to us, it is a guidebook to them!
Norm” you have defamed me publicly. Get this taken down or I will be exploring my options on Monday afternoon. ( I don’t like to get up too early)
” Norm” you have defamed me publicly. Get this taken down or I will be exploring my options on Monday afternoon. ( I don’t like to get up too early)
I sense a Greenstein exercise in crowd funding on the horizon. Or then again not
The problem facing the leadership of the Jewish community is one of balance of raising the issue forcefully but not making this *the* issue facing the whole country. (Which I think (rightly or wrongly) they have missed completely)
Whilst the issues are real for us what does it have to do with the issues facing ‘the silent majority’. So when a canvasser stands on the doorstep of the 99% with dilemmas that are relevant to them it’s going to be very easy to sideline this all as a smear not part of wider agendas/policy directions which people will the average person will connect to (regardless of its merit) as voters vote out governments
I guess not all would care to recognise this as a coalmine canary.
More details, please, on this Armbach character.
By openly declaring their readiness to exploit anti-Jewish prejudice these activists are outdoing Pascal Boniface who pointed to the fact that there are far more French voters of North African or Arab origin than there are Jewish voters to justify policies which pander to many (not all) of the latter’s extreme hostility to Israel.
Blagon out Armbach in and out Bellamy in
Oh my God I just love that. Cheers Harv
Paul, we absolutely have to expose how Labour and the left are exploiting antisemitism for political gain. I don’t think enough people recognise that fact. Fueling antisemitic prejudice is a tried and trusted route to power and those who stay silent are complicit. As David says, the end point is truly frightening.
I thought I’d seen it all on this Blog over the past 12 months. Alas, I was wrong, here’s an ardent Zionist (please note this word has not yet been banned, however the IHRA would like to see it banned) Norm telling readers of this Blog that its the Left that is weaponising/politicising anti-semitism.
My God man, can you tell me the person who you purchase LSD from, which is now hard to get in South Wales, as its the most powerful LSD I’ve ever witnessed.
Keep up the propaganda Norm, but lets remind you again your bullshite ain’t getting through, your lies are so blatantly transparent your a fucking joke.
Lucky for us critiques of ardent Zionists, Israel apologists and BS artists Israel’s own citizens are seeing the lie, as are growing numbers of decent Jewish folk the World over.
You must be spitting dummies that Natalie Portman has now come out against the Israeli regime, no doubt you’ll be calling for her Israeli passport to revoked, despite the fact she was born in Israel’s spiritual capital.
Natalie hasn’t come out against the ‘Israeli regime’, because such a thing does not exist. Nor is she a supporters of BDS. I imagine she is a Zionist and an Israeli who doesn’t like the current policies of the Netanyahu government and has just registered her displeasure. Counting people like her (Left wing Zionists) as being part of your number, shows how few and desperate you really are. You have this need to use internal dissent (moderate left wing Jewish opposition to a right of centre Israeli government) as a sign that these people, like you, support the haters. They don’t.
Portman does not desire to visit Israel because of its current ‘REGIME’ and events presently occurring in Gaza. Its that simple mate & the nutters in the Israeli Regime are spitting dummies about said fact.
If you don’t like the use of ‘REGIME’, tough, its a MSM trope usually directed at nation states that oppose neoconservative aggression, so, we can equally apply it to Israel, the USA or UK if you are on the Left.
Again, people are waking up to Israeli crimes, indeed, its now more than 4K Palestinians killed and maimed by the IDF since the latest demo’s by the Palestinians protesting against illegal occupation. Next, you’ll be denouncing those who stood up against Hitler in the Warsaw Ghetto!
Your apologies for Israel are crap and persons don’t believe it anymore.
You really do not know what you are talking about. Portman is a Zionist who did not want to go to AN EVENT because it would be seen as political endorsement of a specific party/person/policy. You say she does not want to visit the country which is hogwash. Israel is a democracy and you cannot take everyone who opposes Netanyahu as being a member of your Hamas supporting crowd. Same true for Jews globally. Portman won’t even endorse BDS-lite (settlements only), let alone the ‘lets kill a democracy’ BDS that you and your fellow nutcases promote. Like most empty-headed propagandists, everything is black or white to you and there are no shades of anything. Zionist thought is a spectrum and your attempts to re-characterise it as something it is not have completely disabled any chance you ever had of understanding events properly.
As Ever David,
Sorry to rain on your parade, but given Portman was actually born in Jerusalem after Israel seized the City in 67 I suggest its correct to refer to her as a US Passport carrying Israeli, or even a Palestinian, given many Jewish folk lived in the Palestine Mandate, before a bunch of Zionists turned the place into a racial endeavour, i.e., for Jews only. So, given Portman is actually native born in the Holy Land’s I suggest her opinion counts for more than yours. As for being an ardent Zionist, or even a liberal-Zionist, that’s a false narrative given, as stated, she’s bloody born in Israel, so, she’s actually Israeli regardless of race or religion.
Now, who’s the racist again David, because all you give a toss about is alleged racism against Jewish folk, which, lets be blunt, is a fucking joke when compared to the racism explicit in the Tories behaviour towards the Windrush generation. The Left is usually universal in its application of anti-racism, you ain’t mate, you are selective. And remind me again who’s the racist?
I look forward to your 1000 word response again David, which is laughable given the actual facts, facts you don’t like.
Lets remind ourselves again via this San Francisco Jewish Survey:http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studies/details.cfm?StudyID=852
You are the racist Chris. I thank you for highlighting it so perfectly in the last comment.
EXAMPLE ONE: My neighbour was born in Pakistan. He has lived here for ten years.
EXAMPLE TWO: Bill Blogs is a white British man who left the UK when he was three years old and has lived elsewhere most of his life
EXAMPLE THREE: My other neighbour was born in Ghana, but lived for fifteen years in the UK (5x longer than Bill Blogs). He is currently working abroad but intends to come back to the UK as soon as the opportunity allows.
All three hold British citizenship. Only the Pakistani born man currently resides in the UK. Yet on matters UK, Chris thinks the opinion of Bill Blogs counts more than the others because he was ‘actually native born’. Do I have that right Chris?
Sounds like a hard-core racist to me. As for the rest of your nonsense on top of being a racist, you’re also a fool.
My God you have a neighbour who ain’t white, I’ll give you a case of beer for that. All my neighbours are non-European period, so, if I’m a racist, I must be a strange one. Again, the Left applies anti-racism universally, there are no chosen few to concentrate on as all are equal, and when people discount this, they get attacked.
Of course, your politics suck, as do most Zionists politics, so, regardless of whether you are Jewish, Christian, African, Chinese etc. etc., if you are a Tory and engage in racist tropes you are a valid target of contempt.
Same applies to wanton warmongers, fascists and Totalitarian Centrists that blight the Labour Movement.
Totally empty commentary Chris and one that didn’t address the issue. Why does Portman’s place of birth, making her ‘native’ mean her opinion counts for more than others, despite her leaving her native land when she was just three? Are you big on this ‘native born’ thing, because it all sounds a little BNP to me?
What point is that you are enquiring about?
As for mentions of the BNP, strange, but I have lovely photo’s of you driver, Scoffie, hanging out with his EDL/Britain First chums from yesterday’s counter HSBC AGM demo – the picnic table cover, an Israeli flag, was a nice touch.
And I’m the fucking racist, please give it a rest as you are now going batshite crazy with your delusions.
Chris like most of his ilk, love the Jews that died in the Holocaust,
He hates Jews that stand up to his progresive racism that treats the west as shit and whites as guilty of all crimes because of ‘white privelage’.
He is the progresive racist that rubbishes the west while luxuriating in all, the benefits that west has created
His progresive racism dictates that colonialism only started in the 15th century and was the preserve of white Europeans alone, and ignores the fact that it has been practised by all tribes, clans and nations from histories beggining.
His progresive racism dictates that slavery only started in the 15th century and was the preserve of white Europeans, ignoring the fact that slavery has been practised by all races and religions and clans and tribes and nations since the start of history
In sum I would label Chris a hypocritical progresive racist who selectively chooses his pet hates in accordance with the identity politics that is so prevalent today
Intersectionality and victimhood are the hallmarks of his progresive racist bigotry and fury, as will be discernable when he posts his reply about the pristine beauty and purity of his progresive views on racism and the envireonment and all the other blah blahs. And how can anyone call such a dear chap a racist bigot. Heaven forbid. Whoops another typo ; he is bound to be a progresive anti-religous atheist. Believing in God/god is so yesterday for a progresive racist
As I said before Chris digs himself ever deeper into the cesspit. Antisemitism appears to be an issue he neither understands nor cares about enough to understand. Instead he seems happy to excrete the same antisemitic nonsense carefully manufactured, crafted and promoted by real Jew hating antismeites. So in Chris’s world Jews standing up in Parliament to complain about antisemitism are’ acting’, perhaps in the pay of Netanyahu, the pay of Teresa May (or even the ‘Lizard Folk’), depending on which particular cesspit he preferrs to wallow in. I suspect that Chris is one of these people who thinks that Zionism = Nazism (imagine how much you must hate Jews to even say that!). It might be that in Chris’s world the Palestinians only want to live in peace with the Jews, despite all the evidence to the contrary. And the armed Arab soldiers that try to breach the Gaza border fence are simply ‘peaceful protestors’. It might also be that the Arabs want to finish the job Hitler started – they say it often enough. It must be a dark world you live in, where the Jews are ‘always up to something’ and Corbyn is the only person who can save the world from the ‘tentacles of the Zionist monster’. You are are an ignoramus, simply here to ‘Jew bait’. Go and find yourself another hobby before you lose every bit of credibility you ever had.
Has David bitten you and given you a form of rabies, because you are now, as with David, positively batshite crazy. This Natalie Portman stuff must be getting to you.
You just have no clue what you are talking about, have you? I suppose being a Jew baiter does not require it.
The only one doing any baiting is you old bean. And you ain’t succeeding. Now off you go and vomit your bile into your rather large bile bag.
Some trolls smell brightly, some trolls burn long, but in the end they all melt down in a kettle of their own bile. You aren’t missed.
Natalie was born in Jerusalem
Part of Jerusalem was in Israel after 1948
The Jordanians ETHNICALLY CLEANSED every Jew when they attacked, occupied and annexed the west bank and East Jerusalem in 1948-51
The west bank and East Jerusalem were ‘Judenfrei’ between 1948 to 1967 and Jerusalem was divided. I am sure the Nazis and their followers would have been very proud. I am sure those progresive Communists were also proud
It was those progresive communisis that created the modern day anti-Israel Antisemitism as a weapon in the ‘Cold War’
Do go learn some history, there is a good boy
“Zionist thought is a spectrum ” …. as is BDS then(lite?). Therefore BDS is NOT about destroying Israel.
Of course BDS is about destroying Israel. BDS founders have explicitly stated that BDS lite doesn’t fulfill their goals. All that is happening is that people like Chris (see Portman as an example) take every criticism of Israeli policy or the occupation as indicating these people are supportive of their own goals. This is pure poppycock. Within the democratic Israeli system are several movements opposed to the settlements and who openly challenge them, and in some cases have called for a boycott. Left wing Zionist groups in the diaspora have also done the same. There is more than one argument taking place and the arguments within Zionism over certain issues has little to do with the anti-Zionist one. That anti-Zionists seek to make political capital from this is understandable but still nonsensical. The 3 aims of BDS are a call for the end of Israel.
Stephen Bellamy, please answer my often asked question, which you in your unpleasant posts, have never answered.
I use the term ‘unpleasant posts’ because you are continuously being provocotive by making comments that attempt to offend while trying to appear quite academic/intellectual.
Your posts serve to alert readers of this blog to the constantly changing attempts to besmirch Israel by you and your ilk, while you try to find different ways to ply your trade without being accused of Antisemitism/Jew hatred
I asked for reasons why you called Israel
1) a basketcase
2) the most dependant nation in the world
3) and why you libelled Arkush by labelling him a ‘ Trump loving racist Tory Jew’
Your reluctance to answer the questions points towards your general animus towards both Israel and Jews
Number 3 is easy. I have never labelled Arkush that.
And Richard if you think I give a flying fuck about being accused of antisemitism/Jew hatred by the Hasbarafia you doubtless think there are fairies at the bottom of your garden
Is every Jew that supports Israel’s right to exist part of the ‘Hasbarafia’ (which I assume means the ‘propaganda mafia’)
I do so love it when you resort to cursing
I have always found that a sure sign of a tirade without a convincing story.
Do take your petty racist, anti-Israel/anti-Jewish rants and your unpleasant provocations and let them perccolate through your Israel obsessed mind, that they may eventually emerge as balanced, unbiased hate free ideas based on equality, fraternity and liberty,
Or you can even leave this site for pastures afresh, where people eat the same candy as you, and you can denigrate the only Jewish state and its Jewish citizens untouched by the realities of the Jew hate that exists and is helped on its way by the myriads of propogandists like yourself
Full marks for persistence Richard. Ever wonder why a troll becomes a troll? Aside from the narcissistic self gratification it’s just a loads easier way of winning an argument. The lads that struggle in the real world can get away with anything here without having to do very much at all. “Ooh I saw Squiffy stood next to Dave and he’s a twat. (copy and paste). Me for the win!” It’s hardly Black September and is entry level activism at best. Lucky none of this matters.
A valuble lesson I learnt from an excellent debater is that’ ‘you are not talking to the person opposite you, you are talking to the audience.
I don’t talk to trolls to convince them; I try talking to their audience.
There are enough reasonable people out there, who may need a little extra info to make up their minds, rather than leaving the field open to said trolls.
Putting ideas to paper also has the benefit of testing my own arguments where they can be challenged and therefore be improved upon
Trolls are sad losers who try to make up for their sad failed lives by finding a scapegoat to demonise.
Oh Ian thinks this is about winning an argument. Once more highlighting that he doesn’t have the remotist fucking clue what is going on.
Thanks Richard. Interesting perspective.
When his fellow cohorts are out demonstrating HSBC’s AGM today, Mr Collier is busy penning this against Maddison and making all sorts of unqualified aspersions again.
David, to be honest I’d be more worried about the fact that your Chief driver, Scoffie, has been photographed yet again with racists, unless of course the EDL, Britain First et al are not racist groupings, which is news to me.
Still, do keep knocking Labour, but can’t wait until next month’s Council Elections. No doubt the Bored of Deputies will be perturbed by what we witness then – hopefully a Tory Councillor wipeout.
Still, I notice Natalie Portman’s being targeted now (anti-semite & self hating Jew), which is strange because until her most recent decision not to visit Israel, she was flavour on the year.
Hey all, its rather late in Hong Kong, but will be staying awake to tune into Talkradio and catch up on some real combatting of actual racism, namely, Windrushgate with George Galloway. Funny how all the Parliamentarian Friend’s of Israel voted in favour of, or abstained from the 2014 Immigration Act, which is now biting them on the arse.
Can you please tell me the last time an actual Jewish person was kicked out of the UK, or for that matter a victim of rendition?
Chris Rogers digs himself ever deeper into the cesspit “Can you please tell me the last time an actual Jewish person was kicked out of the UK, or for that matter a victim of rendition” Once your Mr Corbyn gets into power he will make sure it is a daily occurrence!
You are such a propagandist of bullshite its positively unbelievable – evidence, mate, show me the fucking evidence.
Pot. Kettle. Happy Nakba!
Forget to ask Norm,
With the above histrionics, is this a script for a new play or movie, maybe one starring Smeeth and Berger, or John Mann or a plethora of other Israeli apologists. Again, with a script like that you’ll land a Tony, Bafta and Oscar.
Don’t think Natalie Portman will wish to read said script though.
Speaking of the Treacherous Trio, how can members of ‘Friends of’ a state that flouts the world’s humanitarian laws, regularly assassinates those it hunts in other countries, and uses live fire on demonstrators, be allowed to remain in the British Labour Party AND have the gall to attempt to topple the democratically elected leader of the party.
Speaking of the Treacherous Taqiyya pushers, how can members of a claimed “Progressive, Socialist Workers/Laboor Party” support people who
– murder people who ride London transport on 7/7 2005
– murder people exiting a concert in Manchester
– murder people walking across London and Westminster bridge
– behead a British soldier walking the streets of London
– attack athletes at the 1972 Olympics
– bomb passengers of Pan Am 103
– openly threaten the UK and Europe with 9/11 scale massacres
– operate rape gangs in Rotherham
– execute gays in Gaza (push them off rooftops)
– execute claimed “collaborators” and drag their bodies through the streets of Gaza as a warning
– establish “sharia zones” in the UK where Infidels/NON-Muslims are demanded to comply with sharia law in the UK
Tell us, pal.
How can members of a claimed “Progressive, Socialist Workers/Labour Party” be ‘Friends of’ a state that flouts international humanitarian laws and uses snipers to shoot unarmed demonstrators through a fence on their very own land?
Something funny about that. Free trips to the sunshine?
Shouldn’t Berger, Smeeth and Mann cross the floor to join the Conservatives who continue to happily supply that state with military supplies?
There is a Labour Friends of Palestine – How can members of a claimed “Progressive, Socialist Workers/Labour Party” be ‘Friends of’ a group that promotes jewish genocide, antisemitism, holocaust denial, Islamism, suicide bombing, misogyny, FGM, homophobia and campaigns to create another Jew free 7th century hell hole on the banks of the mediterranean. Perhaps members of the Labour Friends of Palestine would feel more comfortable in the British National Party where they will find lots of other like minded people. (…and I hear Nick Griffin is a big Corbyn supporter!!).
Chrissy, Can you fit through a broken passenger airplane window?
Slather some grease on your crapacious hide for good luck.
As I’m not obese, the answer to your enquiry is ‘yes’.
However, and realising your bowel does not operate properly, I hazard a guess, given the craps that comes outta your mouth, that you’d have great difficulty fitting through a regular doorway, never mind a A380 portal.
You tend towards the slender? Perhaps you can be sucked down the planes toilet with the rest of the crap.
I tend to avoid aircraft toilets if I can & much prefer utilising facilities at actual airports.
That you reference Galloway means that you must be an afficianado of RT, a TV station run by the Russian mafia headed by Putin, that specialises in selective news reporting to the gullible
“People actively engaged in opposing all attempts to deal with antisemitism in the Labour Party.” is how David describes the founders of ‘Labour against the witchhunt’.
Hope he’s not suggesting that creating the group is ‘opposing all attempts to deal witn antisemitism’ in the Labour Party. That would be a siily conclusion and stretching truth beyong its elastic limit, even for David. His alternating of sentences and phrases clouds his meaning at times. Intentional?
We must realise that historically, religiously, and linguistically (“dirty Jew”), Jews have always been evil virtually by definition. Hence, I think many people are not truly convinced that there even IS such thing as “anti-Semitism” — it would be like being “anti-Devil” (how is THAT wrong?). What’s more consistent — given the very definition of “Jew” — is that the whole “anti-Semitism” hoopla around Corbyn is Jew-devil’s work.
Thus to many people, Corbyn’s joining of Nazi Facebook groups for example, is innocent; while the real problem is his persecution by Jew-devils.
So yes; stamping out the devil is a net positive for Labour. Why the surprise?
I do not believe this post is real. If you do it again, I will ban you
Yes, it wasn’t nice. Just need to stop the ‘Happy Nakbas’ now or you’ll be accused of hosting a racist site.
Little ol’ racist Davy calling others racist.
Again for fascist pigs like you, “Nakba” is a term used to characterize the1948 FAILURE of 5 Arab armies, none of which was an army of an existing “palestine”, to defeat Israel and take the land for themselves.
So Happy Nakba!
‘Jews as evil’ has nothing to do with the ‘happy Nakba’ comment and they don’t equate. I personally wouldn’t use it (happy Nakba), because the Arabs did suffer a ‘catastrophe’, so I am ethically uncomfortable with ridiculing innocent people (of which there were many) who suffered misfortune. Having said that, the ‘Nakba’ is a name given to something specific which simply did not happen (a planned one-sided battle to ethnically cleanse Arabs) and is a political weapon created explicitly to attack Israel. That’s it – that is all it is. The ‘Nakba’ is an invented political tool, whilst the ‘catastrophe’ the befell the Arabs is a historical period during which many of their own people, their own leaders and the Arab nations around them went to war with a Zionist movement that was fighting for its own survival. All 1929-1949 events take place within that historically factual paradigm and the ‘Nakba’ narrative is simply created outside of it. I therefore understand people who wish to ridicule a fairytale, but don’t do it myself because in the real world event people really did suffer.
Yourself, as a reader of Benny Morris, know that Arabs were driven out of their villages and the villages(hundreds of them) destroyed.
These people term it the Nakba. Are you stating that when they refer to that disastrous time for them that they are using it as a “political tool”?
Can others therefore refer to the ‘Holocaust’ and its contemporary mention as a “political tool”?.
As any reader of Benny Morris would know SOME arabs were driven out. Many also fled. In some towns, where Arab irregulars had taken up positions, I imagine the Haganah felt it necessary to empty the villages. It is both logical, understandable and practical. I also imagine a few over-zealous units over-stepped. None of this is the ‘Nakba’ – which is not a tale of civil war. A civil conflict happened, there were massacres on both sides and it is a fact, that with an impending invasion, the Jews needed to retake control of the roads (they had lost this during February and March). Can you explain the heavy losses of the Haganah in your Nakba narrative? Any story that does not place events into the context of a civil conflict that extracted a heavy price from both sides is pure poppycock and deserves derision.
The idea that the Arabs needed to be forced out is illogical and goes against everything we know about civil conflict. The Jews had nowhere to go. Can you give me a single reason why Arab families in order to protect their children from a civil conflict wouldn’t have taken them to safety? Isn’t that what human beings do?
I have no interest in you equating a tiny localised civil (and then minor regional) conflict that saw perhaps 20,000 casualties, with an industrial killing program that wiped millions of innocent civilians off the earth just because they were not seen as genetically pure.
“The idea that the Arabs needed to be forced out is illogical”?? Why was it done then?
The Jews wanted themselves to be the majority, obvious.
Pointless talking to you because you don’t listen and just repeat verbatim what you said previously with no explanation or justification for your views and comments
Quite obvious that Edward’s racism is encouraged and allowed by yourself because it’s not against Jews.
Corbyn posts perhaps 2 posts onto Facebook sites where there only about 0.001% antisemitic posts over the year and he’s the devil incarnate.
Got you, David.
Davy, another twisted sick tool.
You should study some history; especially the history of war
In every war you will get
1) Damaged buildings
2) Destroyed buildings
3) Injured and wounded soldiers
4) Dead soldiers
5) Injured and wounded civilians,(men, women, children and aged)
6) Dead civilians (including men, women, children and the aged)
7) REFUGEES fleeing the war in panic and fear, always refugees.
8) In past conflicts slaves were taken as war booty; but thankfully not today
9) Certain armies amd clans and tribes have used rape as a weapon of war (I have heard Israel being accused of racism because Jewish soldiers don’t rape Arabs,)
This is the nature of war
The split between India and Pakistan in 1947 resulted in over ten million refugees and an estimated half a million dead
If you are trying to say the 1948/9 Arab/Israeli War was any different to other wars, then it would appear that you have an agenda that ignores fact and truth
But its slightly less offensive than the drivel served up by the usual suspects here…….!
Offensive to an Arab? a Jew? …. or is racism racism, full stop?
To some people, some kinds of racism are “progressive”.
How about banning scum like Rogers, who claims that the IDF ‘murders’ ‘unarmed’ peaceful protesters?
Any Port(man) in a storm eh Chris?.
Here in the real world of proper things going on, victory is celebrated when we discover a tunnel full of Arabs in our country and we destroy it and them before they can kill our citizens. We win when we neutralize an Arab with a knife who has tried to stab one of our grannies or young mums or when one of our F-35s has totaled an Iranian lab making the chemical weapons that have been killing thousands of Syrian kids and threatens us.
Conversely in the pretend world of Activism Lite, you lot fall over yourselves when some fucking minstrel from Hollywood doesn’t show. Win of the week eh! Copy and paste ’til your fingers bleed.
Says everything really about the real world versus the lads in Costa on HuffPost doing shtick on social media. You said “..any stick to beat them with.” Don’t make me laugh.
Please remind me in the past three weeks how many Palestinian protestors, none of them armed, have been executed and maimed by your blood thirsty IDF, all commanded by an entirely racist, warmongering government. Again, under the conditions laid out after the Nuremberg Trials, all those involved in this disgusting behaviour, and that includes the snipers, are liable to prosecution at the Hague, and hopefully, being strung up by the neck for their crimes against humanity.
Nothing! NOTHING! scares the anti-semites more than when Jews fight back!
Heck I suppose killing and maiming 4000 persons in three weeks, none of them armed, is really challenging. And don’t implicate decent jewish folk in your racist murders and foul occupation. Again, you are batshite crazy and many Jewish folk globally are awakening once more to these horrors, perpetrated allegedly on their behalf. Talk about Hitler’s willing executions, we now have Zionists willing executioners. DISGUSTING.
4000 “paleo-stinians” killed and maimed by smoke from hundreds fo burning tires that they set on fire to create a smoke screen to attack the anti-terrorist wall, killed and maimed by being forced as slave laborers to dig tunnels used to attack Israel, killed and maimed by Hamass for being accused of working for Israel.
Hamass terrorist attacks thwarted? Priceless.
Hamass, STOP HIDING BEHIND CIVILIANS!
I love the racism you drip with, and this Blog drips with. Lets see, you, Leah27z, Norm and quite a few others reflect wonderfully on Zionism, namely its a racist project, always has been and always will be. And, persons can witness your racist bile here if they ever visit.
Great stuff as its good to know what our enemies are all about.
As far as I have seen, the only person who has been racist on this blog-post is you. Tell us more about your apparent belief that white Brits have a more valid opinion than immigrants?
As I’m an immigrant myself, none too sure what you are discussing, unless of course white Jewish folk in the UK are being kicked out of the UK like those from the Caribbean. Evidently, their plight, like that of the Palestinians means fuck all to you.
Again, are Jewish folk living in a ‘hostile environment’ in the UK?
In answer, its no, but if we believed your nonsense Jewish folk who have integrated into and live peacefully as UK citizens allegedly will shortly be suffering Pogroms.
Again, I’m the racist. Really!!!!!!
No doubt, you’ll be giving some support to Marc Wadsworth on Monday, or, because his folks were of the Windrush Generation, he don’t count.
Positively disgusting, continually inventing faux anti-semitism/ anti Jewish sentiment whilst other honest folk suffer greatly, which shows clearly where your priorities rest.
Again, no word of contrition from you over Scoffie, who yet again was openly consorting with known racists on Friday. But, they were white Jewish racists, so they don’t count in your warped equations.
Thankyou, Chris for “continually inventing faux anti-semitism/ anti Jewish sentiment “. Word perfect summation of David’s paid work.
“kicked out of the UK like those from the Caribbean” – name the ones ‘kicked out’, you revolting dreg.
Rogers the screeching thick tosser.
Chris, when you are in a hole stop digging. There is nothing racist about supporting Israel’s right to exist. But it is racist to want Israel’s destruction. Thanks for confirming that you consider Jews who support Israel (and presumably the 99% of mainstream Jews in the UK who support Israel’s right to exist) to be your ‘enemies’. The reason why we need Israel is to protect Jews from people like you.
Here we go again with the good Jew, bad Jew malarky – sounds very anti-semitic to me old bean does that old chestnut, particularly with your emphasis on ‘mainstream’, so does that mean those Jewish folk who fit the Jonathan Hoffman criteria of what a ‘real Jew’ is, all other Jewish folks being non-persons no doubt!
You are ignorant about our community and I can’t be bothered to elaborate on what ‘mainstream’ means. To people who think the way you do we are all just ‘bloody Jews’.
“But it is racist to want Israel’s destruction. ”
Also racist then to refuse the creation of a Palestinian state.
Molotov cocktails, sling shots with stones propelled at high speed have often been proved to be lethal
But when a mob, egged in by self-declared Jew hating genocidal armed groups attack a country with the publicly proclaimed intentiom of breaching the border and destroying that country, then the government of that country has the express duty to repulse those mobs.
If you , in your distate for Jews protecting themselves, objects; then so be it.
If they had not attacked Israels border ther would have been no confrontation.
And your disingenuous conflating of the dead and wounded to make it look worse can only be explained by your hared of Jewish Israelis who refuse to roll over and die like the good Jews in the past did
You may hate us and wish us dead; but at last we fight back to defend ourselves from the rabid Jew hating mobs that you love and support with such zeal
I know something that scares anti-semites more.
An anti-semite LOSING to a Jew.
Doubt there’s much wrong with your memory Chris. Remember your irritation when your Hamas mates admitted that 80% of those killed were their fighters?
More bollocks. Were these protesters armed with sniper rifles, assault rifles, hand grenades, tear gas or any offensive weapon, apart from stones and the odd knife. You lot, that those in israel and global supporters, are a sick bunch. Again, folk globally are waking up to the facts, not barbara fiction. End of.
Anyone know what the loon Rogers is screeching about this time?
The dribble that gets posted on this Blog by persons suffering from acute rabies, which I believe is rather dangerous. That and the fact Natalie Portman as upset ardent Zionists by not wishing to visit Israel in wake of the present murders going on in Gaza, obviously the most peaceful & humane IDF have only managed to kill and maim 4000 in three weeks. Have you been over to grab a sniper rifle and contribute to this murder Leah by any chance?
The thing is this latest Gaza thing is destined to be Israel’s Sharpeville. Or have I said that already ?
twice. Just as wrong now as before
Yes, yes, we know, Jews defending themselves are ‘murderers’.
Fuck off, deranged creep.
Chris Rogers Every hilarious comment you make exposes your unrelenting hatered of Jews, ooops sorry Zioinsts. (We know you absolutely love Jews!!) “Again, folk globally are waking up to the facts, not barbara fiction.” Who exactly is Barbara Fiction, you jew baiting DOLT!
Don’t blame me for auto-correct, I just type and post, but Hasbara is a sod to get out for some strange reason. Nevermind, hope you are enjoying the killing fields of Gaza, all done in the good name of Jewish folk. No wonder Natalie Portman is pissed off. I’d be pissed too.
“…. hope you are enjoying the killing fields of Gaza, all done in the good name of Jewish folk….” Antisemitic nonsense! You keep proving my point that you act like a Jew hating scumbag, well done!
Your anti-Semitism charges are getting most boring. That I stand in solidarity with all Jewish folk in Israel and Internationally who are opposed to the brutality expressed in Gaza by the Israeli regime in power does not make one anti-semitic, it actually states clearly I’m a humanitarian. If Israeli Zionists and ardent overseas Zionists, many of whom are certainly not Jewish, are happy to have support from overtly fascist nutters and Christian fundamentalist nutters, that’s not my issue, its actually yours. Again, you keep claiming that the Jewish community internationally is a monolithic entity, which is an expression of anti-semitism by you, as the fact remains no Jewish monolithic entity exists. Again, its great to see folk internationally, and within Israel, cotton on to the fact that Israel is an Occupation Power that brutally represses the Palestinian’s in their own lands – folk aren’t stupid Norm, but you certainly are. Do wake up and smell the coffee, or at least tell some truth, rather than sell propaganda continually.
More deranged hysterical nonsense from Creepy Rogers.
Are we now on the hand holding stage of our relationship Leah? I mean, they go in stages & once you get past the hate stage, you’re into new territory. Can you make sure your nails are short and clean please as don’t like dirty nails, too many germs for my liking.
We’ll Chris, if you don’t believe Hamas and you don’t believe us then all that’s left for you is to make stuff up. “End of.” Love it.
In non-mossad related news I see that the Head of the Hamas drone programme and their Head of nuclear research died mysteriously in Tunisia and Malaysia in circumstances involving their bodies being riddled with bullets. This begs the question; if we’re blockading them how are they all getting out?
It looks like the Head of Hamas Drone Programme was busy in Saudi Arabia last night, many thought a coup had been started. Turns out it was a toy plane.
Nah, their boy is well dead. Not sure we did that one though. Normally our targets meet an untimely end when a large fridge freezer unexpectedly topples from a fifth floor apartment balcony at the precise moment that they pass beneath. Quite tragic! On this occasion I hear that all of our white goods are accounted for.
Well, well, well. Looks like David’s been telling porkies.
Now, I’m aware Scoffie Hoffman is @LabourAgainstAnti-Semitism, despite being a raving racist and probably a National Front voter – the Tories being too leftwing, but surprised to learn that the hosts of @Gnasherjew are probably your blog host, Mr Collier, together with Richard Millett, Joe Goldberg & Steve Silverman. Is this correct David, I mean you have bugger all to do with the Labour party, so must be scarred shit of Corbyn with all the crap you host on this Blog. Looking forward to chatting with my Counsel colleagues about this, if indeed its actual fact?
Wonder if Stephen Bellamy can shed light on this little matter?
Fraid not but that list is certainly the kind of head bangers you would expect. Probably Saul Freeman as well.
many thanks, unlike others, instead of spreading malicious rumours, I’m happy to make enquiries first and go to the horses mouth. However, apart from Scoffie and Mr Collier, I have no idea who these others are, among them your mentioned Saul Freeman – maybe I’ve been visiting Jewdas too much, who are very good on Scoffie and his ideas.
Saul Freeman @nudderingnudnik
Saul is an off the scale headbanger. He makes Scoffie look sophisticated. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was involved in one or more of the nut job accounts
Jewhaters, oops sorry ‘humanitarians’, planning and scheming on David’s blog, now. David is far too generous – I would have banned both of you for triggering my antisemite detector, months ago.
That reminds me of your being banned from the JC blogs for mysogony and threats of sexual violence.
“That reminds me of your being banned from the JC blogs for mysogony and threats of sexual violence.” I have not been banned from anywhere. This is Defamation. Get it removed or I will explore my legal options on Monday morning.
Go for it Jose. I have the relevant emails from Jenni Fraser and Pollard to the complainant. Your legal options are few so you will still have time to take a dip in the briny before lunch.
I solicited my cat Gnasher’s opinion about whether I should sue you for all the unfounded allegations of antisemitism you have directed at me. He said ” nah just find out where he lives and I’ll go shit in his stereo headphones.”
Who on earth do YOU think I am?
You really imagine that Bellend has enough brain cells to be able to think?
My daughter once had a most vicious dwarf hamster, it drew blood all the time and certainly did not like being caged – we allowed it to roam the living room freely and nest in a old sub-woofer. If I had the bugger now, probably would name it GnasherJew in honour of these assiduous witchhunters.
Swivel-eyed Bellend accusing others of being head bangers.
I am nowt to do with Gnasher and I seriously doubt (am pretty positive) Jonathan is not LAAS. Your post is merely a sign of the rubbish you read.
Most strange, but on a LBC show only a few weeks ago a listener called Jonathan Hoffman actually rang int and admitted live on air he was associated with @LAAS – must be a different Hoffman no doubt, despite the fact he’s on LBC quite often.
The phone call I refer too was at approx. 11.00am on 26 March – if its someone impersonating Scoffie, I’ll send a strong letter to LBC in complaint about this issue.
Help me in my weakness, I heard the jester say.
As they carried him from the courthouse and were taking him away
Anyway ” Norm” I don’t have the power to take it down and I am sure your influence with David is much greater than mine. I am sure if you ask him to take it down he will. Otherwise people can only conclude that you are not as wounded as you are making out
I’ve already taken Legal Counsel on this matter from a Barrister friend & sad to say you cannot slander or defame an anonymous person, namely a sock puppet on a person who does not post under their actual identity.
The litmus test is would your average visitor to this site have any idea who Mr Bellamy is referring too, if referring a comment to a person who hides their true identity, which actually applies to you as I have zero idea who you are. And in Law, I’m considered an average Joe.
Still, if you want to waste money, please be my guest as both Solicitor fees and Barrister fees are most expensive – never mind the fact, if you cannot recover costs its a useless exercise. As the old adage goes: You can’t get water out of a stone, so unless Mr Bellamy holds some assets, yours is a dangerous path.
I have a great wealth of intellectual capital Chris
Great exchange today lads; Activism to be admired.
Don’t fret Norm. Chris gets all his legal advice from his imaginary mate “Cohen from America”, the lovely lapsed Jew. If he’s out to lunch then it’s “Cohen, the fictitious ex IDF Welsh coal miner with the mail order tranny bride” who may or may not also be a lapsed Jew. Seriously, his descriptions not mine although some of the details tend to change from time to time.
Alternatively, I do have a spare fridge in the store room.
As anything I state can be very easily ‘verified’, from University sources, to actual experience of working with Counsel on some very large UK criminal law cases, your snide, crass remarks truly are reprehensible. Again, as I don’t hide, as I’m easy to communicate with, it just shows how bone idle you actually are. As CP Scott reminds us: “Comment is free, but facts are sacred.” So’I’ll stick to facts and not flights of fancy.
Further, our one Legal Counsel is both ex-British Army and was involved in the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland on the Unionist-side of the equation, still, lets not let facts get in the way of your bolllocks and slights.
“Verified” in inverted commas Chris! Does that make it a euphemism?
You’ve always been way too inconsistent for this game. Your back stories have more holes than an Arab tyre protest and the sincerity shtick needs much more rehearsal.
Still as Lyndon Court remind us ” The lies of a stranger bruise as a silken caress.”
Would you like to test it in Court Ian, that’s how confident I am of the life I’ve lived and persons I’ve associated with – mostly boring stuff, but realty is like that.
Next you’ll be instructing me I was not born in Monmouthshire, which then changed to Gwent and finally I ended up born in Torfaen – all the same fucking place mate, but you need real knowledge of said change to understand it.
Anything you say can be verified because, as with all good propogandists , you play with words yet say very little of import.
Even yours facts are vague; playing with words as I said before
Actually this is all very interesting. ” Norms ” little wobbler is kinda illustrative. The norms and the Edwards and the Leahs and the Ians of this world think nothing of accusing someone of being of the same mind as someone that instigated the slaughter of around 6 million Jews, about twice as many Slavs and a few million assorteds. This is ok . But imagine if it was directed at somebody that cared.
Norm has become Abnorm!
Yeah like the brain in Young Frankenstein. Abi Norm Al
Ta for the name check Bellers.
What is equally interesting is what David has chosen to take down
How interesting is it Bellers?
About as interesting as interesting gets Ian
How interesting is that Bellers? More than when you get a vegetable in a rude shape?
HHHmmm maybe not as interesting as that.
As interesting as that thing that Lou Ferringo could do with his pectorals?
Dunno never heard of the fella. You do have some wierd interests.
Just establishing the “How interesting to Bellers is stuff David does” range; Not as interesting as a carrot shaped like a cock but maybe as interesting as a wobbly man-boob. Thanks for participating in this survey.
It was the John Lewis voucher that tempted me.
Test what Chris, you’re inability to hold onto a consistent back story on social media? Is that a thing now in your fantasy world? What’s the penalty, 10 years in Blockchains?
If you can’t even be arsed sticking to your story you can’t expect us to believe you’re a serious activist can you. ” ..any stick I can find to beat them with” Brilliant.
I’m not into blockchain personally, but know quite a number of advocates for it strangely enough, most notably within the Insurance sector. My isn’t life boring!
Perhaps trying some activism would do the job. Clearly writing fiction about made up people and causes isn’t working for you when you can’t keep your stories straight from one thread to the next.
Remind us what you said about “…using any stick to beat them with.”
What don’t you like about persons attacking imposters within political parties – I have zero tolerance for Totalitarian Centrists and want them removed from the Labour Movement, so yes, any ammunition to beat them with is welcome. Remind me again please, how can Ms Maureen Lipman leave a political group on a weekly basis – she’s a Tory end of.
Check these copy and paste jobs Chris. You can’t assume that one size fits all the sites you troll. This is probably why you can’t keep your stories straight from one thread to the next. I think this one was probably intended for one of your other groups.
The only ones who don;t seem to want a state are the Palestinians
They have fouled up Gaza after 2005
Arafat walked away in 2000/1 and started an intifada
Abbas walked away in 2007/8
Richard I think that the EU put a clause in the contract that gives the Arabs £38m per week in aid funding, saying that if they make peace they stop the gravy train. As billions now reside in private Swiss bank accounts, this may not be high on the priority list of the Arab leadership. Probably not something that pricks like ‘Davy’ are too keen to think about either.
Are you celebrating this little fact from the Times of Israel about the murder of a youth in Gaza?
Does it make you happy to be associated with this Regime, which allegedly is a liberal democracy:
“Confirming what was already clear on a video of the incident, *the Israeli army itself* now says that 14-year-old Ayoub, an unarmed child, was merely “heading toward” the Gaza Strip perimeter fence when a sniper shot him in the head.”
Trust all Israeli apologists are happy with this. Alas to point out this disgusting behaviour makes me a anti-semite, Jew baiter, murder of Jews and any other BS that can be launched at me.
Great stuff chaps and lasses, hope you are proud, hope Israel represents your values, namely killing unarmed Palestinians as if its a sport.
When the little three month old Hadas Fogel was murdered by Palestinians by decapitation because she was a little Jew that lived in Itimar, did you celebrate.
Your friends in Hamas and Gaza certainly did celebrate in typical Palestinian fashion, by handing out sweets and candies; this is a Palestinian practise that is indulged in every time Jews are murdered by them.
Was it not your Communist hero Stalin that said ‘ kill an individual and make a martyr, kill a million and make a statisic’.
The fact that you are able to obsess on one death caused by Israel proves just how few Palestinians are killed in the Arab & Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
The killing of about half a million Syrians, including Palestinians, in Syria by the unelected and unrepresentative semi-dictator Assad and his regime, and the failure of the ‘progressive liberal lefties’ to protest proves my point about Stalins maxim and the selective outrage of said lefties.
Palestinians in Yarmouk are once again suffering at the hands of the Assad regime and its Russian and Iranian helpers
But SILENCE on that by the great and good liberal Chris
Is that another one of your copy and paste jobs doing the rounds Chris?
Richard, we should remind ourselves that on another thread Chris said he supported Assad because he’d met the Queen. Then again Chris’s causes do change from day to day and apparently depending on which site he’s trolling.
Another thing our dear Chris likes is to bring up Natalie Portman as evidence of Israel failing.
What the dear lad does not know about Israel and Jews is our enormous ptopensity to self critisize without jettisoning everything in the process; and that includes Natalie who had adequately qualified her statements and actions
This is why Israel has one of the most dynamic democracies and independant judiciaries in the world, maintained in times of over 70 years of war. An enormous achievement by any standard.
How many countries in this funny little world of ours allow members of their legislative body to openly call for the destruction of their countries and work in tandem with the countries enemies in a time of war
Now we wait for the neighbourhood nasties to surface and curse all for having the temerity to love ones country/countries.
How easy it is for haters to thrive; and haters never seem to constructively contribute to their societies
Richard, I’ve mentioned before a great book called The Last Englishman that biogs the life of a guy called Alfred Wintle. He once said that the worst sort of chap was the one “that claimed to know your own home town better than you and he ain’t never been there.” The ranks of the naysayers swell with these types, none of whom have anything to say nor the expertise to say it, as you rightly observe. They simply take advantage of the opportunities that social media offers to vent against Jews in a way that they would never have the courage to do in real life and gain a couple of seconds of self gratification in so doing; basic narcissism of the “Ha! Win for me” variety. Not real activists who would never have the conviction or the genuine concern to put themselves in harms way for the cause in the way that most of us have had to do here. They certainly don’t care about Arabs but do like a nice dig at a Jew, obviously from a very safe distance. Wimps!
All in all this site continues to be a useful resource to show how articles attacking antisemitism attracted response from so many antisemites, their various styles and the tactics they used to spray paint the virtual walls with their propagandist sloganeering.
In a few years when the current crop of UK politicians have all croaked it and the accusations of smears against one or other are redundant, it will be interesting to see what brilliant new excuse the Jew haters produce for hating Jews. I look forward to reading about it here.
Ian your comment about knowing your own home town better than you and they aint ever been there is so perceptive. When my liberal zionist friends in the UK bang on about the evils of Bibi I just point out that Bibi understands Israelis way better than you. Is why he keeps getting elected
And you seem to regard David as more permanent than the transient sun. I doubt he would claim that
Stick to your shtick Bellers. Where Israeli politics is concerned it’s obvious that you haven’t got the first fucking clue what’s going on.
Well I know that Bibi gets elected cuz the Arabs are voting in droves.
Though I am clever enough to understand the difference between cleverness and expertise o:)
Thank God I’m neither English, nor have ever participated in any Colonialist endeavour.
And not one of you ardent Zionists has offered anything but bile at the murder of unarmed kids ordered by Generals within the IDF at the behest of the Israeli State.
At least being called a communist is better than anti-semite for a change, but the excuses most of the Israeli apologists make are lamentable – none of your are humanitarians or even human in my humble opinion.
” the sea oh the sea its a sure guarantee. Long may it flow between England and me “
Dear chap; you use the plural ‘the murder of unarmed kids’.
Are you using multi image specs to help distort your vision, or is the distortion a natural brain deficiency
You lot, that’s ardent Zionists, many of whom are certainly not Jewish, are willing executions of youths, but don’t take my word for it, here’s a transcript of Brigadier-General Zvika Fogel’s 21 April Radio interview in Israel, speaks volumes does this:
“Ron Nesiel: Greetings Brigadier General (Res.) Zvika Fogel. Should the IDF [Israeli army] rethink its use of snipers? There’s the impression that maybe someone lowered the bar for using live fire, and this may be the result?
Zvika Fogel: Ron, let’s maybe look at this matter on three levels. At the tactical level that we all love dealing with, the local one, also at the level of values, and with your permission, we will also rise up to the strategic level. At the tactical level, any person who gets close to the fence, anyone who could be a future threat to the border of the State of Israel and its residents, should bear a price for that violation. If this child or anyone else gets close to the fence in order to hide an explosive device or check if there are any dead zones there or to cut the fence so someone could infiltrate the territory of the State of Israel to kill us …
Nesiel: Then, then his punishment is death?
Fogel: His punishment is death. As far as I’m concerned then yes, if you can only shoot him to stop him, in the leg or arm – great. But if it’s more than that then, yes, you want to check with me whose blood is thicker, ours or theirs. It is clear to you that if one such person will manage to cross the fence or hide an explosive device there …
Nesiel: But we were taught that live fire is only used when the soldiers face immediate danger.
Fogel: Come, let’s move over to the level of values. Assuming that we understood the tactical level, as we cannot tolerate a crossing of our border or a violation of our border, let’s proceed to the level of values. I am not Ahmad Tibi, I am Zvika Fogel. I know how these orders are given. I know how a sniper does the shooting. I know how many authorizations he needs before he receives an authorization to open fire. It is not the whim of one or the other sniper who identifies the small body of a child now and decides he’ll shoot. Someone marks the target for him very well and tells him exactly why one has to shoot and what the threat is from that individual. And to my great sorrow, sometimes when you shoot at a small body and you intended to hit his arm or shoulder it goes even higher. The picture is not a pretty picture. But if that’s the price that we have to pay to preserve the safety and quality of life of the residents of the State of Israel, then that’s the price. But now, with your permission, let us go up one level and look at the overview. It is clear to you that Hamas is fighting for consciousness at the moment. It is clear to you and to me …
Nesiel: Is it hard for them to do? Aren’t we providing them with sufficient ammunition in this battle?
Fogel: We’re providing them but …
Nesiel: Because it does not do all that well for us, those pictures that are distributed around the world.
Fogel: Look, Ron, we’re even terrible at it. There’s nothing to be done, David always looks better against Goliath. And in this case, we are the Goliath. Not the David. That is entirely clear to me. But let’s look at it at the strategic level: you and I and a large part of the listeners are clear that this will not end up in demonstrations. It is clear to us that Hamas can’t continue to tolerate the fact that its rockets are not managing to hurt us, its tunnels are eroding …
Fogel: And it doesn’t have too many suicide bombers who continue to believe the fairytale about the virgins waiting up there. It will drag us into a war. I do not want to be on the side that gets dragged. I want to be on the side that initiates things. I do not want to wait for the moment where it finds a weak spot and attacks me there. If tomorrow morning it gets into a military base or a kibbutz and kills people there and takes prisoners of war or hostages, call it as you like, we’re in a whole new script. I want the leaders of Hamas to wake up tomorrow morning and for the last time in their life see the smiling faces of the IDF. That’s what I want to have happen. But we are dragged along. So we’re putting snipers up because we want to preserve the values we were educated by. We can’t always take a single picture and put it before the whole world. We have soldiers there, our children, who were sent out and receive very accurate instructions about whom to shoot to protect us. Let’s back them up.
Nesiel: Brigadier-General (Res.) Zvika Fogel, formerly Head of the Southern Command Staff, thank you for your words.”
Dear progresive racist.
This is not a serving officer; he is offering his opinion.
That the amount of fatalities in the war between the Arabs/Palestinians versus Israel/Jews is so low is testament to the restraint shown by Israeli soldiers.
Your view of Israel and Jews is so abysmaly low that whatever you say is tainted by negativity.
As I have said before, the genocidal armed groups in Gaza have made no secret of their intention to try and destroy Israel and the Jews.
They word their statements to westerners differently to statements in Arabic as they attempt to sway the views of the ‘lefty liberal neo-fascist coalition’ of sundry academics and students and others by using ‘THE USEFUL IDIOTS’ of the west (another one of Stalin reported sayings)
I repeat what I have said before;
While Jews were being slaughtered, you and your ilk looked away, and then wondered why the Jews did not resist.
Now when Jews resist and defend themselves,you scream blue murder and expect us to roll over and be slaughtered like the good Jews of the past.
Well sorry old chap; WE WILL DEFEND OURSELVES, we will not allow Jew haters to kill us without resisting whether you like it ,or not
You are truly an insult to the human race. You accuse me of much, none of which has any basis whatsoever in truth & display all the humility of those who engaged in genocide under the Nazis. You are a disgrace and your very words are here for all to see.
Thankfully, the only persons I wish harm to are those who wish to engage in wanton warmongering and the murder of innocents, whom I’ll willingly execute myself.
Now fuck off to whatever hole you crawled out of and spew your bile on yourself. Shameful stuff, positively shameful stuff. And you fuckers talk about anti-semitism and living in fear. What utter bollocks – you are callous, unrepentant apologists for murder, willing executioners who bring shame to all those who died during WWII.
“…whom I’ll willingly execute myself”.
Is this a job application Chris? Do you have any experience in this field? Any examples of this? Are you a member of a professional body or accredited in any way? Can you provide references? We can pass this onto HR but I can’t promise anything.
Dear progressive racist
I do believe that I have touched a raw nerve
Your facade, your mask, of bonhomie tolerance and liberalism has fallen and your foul mouthed tirade says so very much about you
That you can get so super angry when I say that Jews will defend themselves against the self-proclaimed genocidal armed groups of Gaza who oft and openly state their intention and desire to destroy Israel and the Jews, confirms to me that you prefer commemorating the dead Jews of Europe while vilifying the living Jews of today.
It is you and your ilk who looked away while the Jews were being exterminated by the Nazis while asking why the Jews did nothing to protect themselves.
It is you and your ilk who now scream blue murder when Jews defend themselves against those who would kill them
To be honest I am quite happy to be insulted by you because I celebrate life and liberty for, and with all who would share the same with me; I do however reserve the right to defend myself , and my family and friends against those who would kill or do us harm.
So go on; spew out your vile hatred and accusations.
Israel is alive and celebrates 70 years of immense success in uplifting Jews from centuries of fear and abuse and worse at the hands of many Christian and Muslim countries and groups.
Successes in medical and industrial research and technology, making the barren desert bloom again, absorbing nearly a million Jews Ethnically Cleansed from the Arab/Muslim lands of North Africa and the Middle East only because they were Jews are the things I celebrate as a beacon of light in this wonderful world of ours.
So you go on spreading your bile while we Jews go on trying to better the lot of all the peoples on this planet
Oh , and have a good day
Nice to know what the World is dealing with, as far as Israel and its xenophobic supporters are concerned, be they Israel’s own citizen’s, namely the Jewish one’s, or the overseas Zionists (both Jewish and non-Jewish) who apologise continually for Israel’s sin’s, which are now legion.
No more excuses, no more Hasbara bollocks, you seem to celebrate the murder of innocents and then blame said innocents for their own deaths – I suppose they shot themselves in head at 400 meters with their own personal sniper rifles?
If my own country engaged in such debauchery I’d be ashamed, that my own Nation State, namely the UK, has a pretty god damn awful historical reputation is already shame enough – hence my opposition to imperialist warmongering on the coat tails of the USA.
Those who fought against the Nazi’s in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising must be turning in their graves – they’d have never wished this shit on anyone, even the German’s.
The progressive racist
Do you ever read what I post, or do you just go in to melt down and attack the computer wnen you see my name
As a matter of fact I have never called for the killing or death of anyone as you would see if you read my posts; though that is what you called for concerning me (my execution).
Now then how would a little hater like you know what the fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto were thinking; or are you now claiming to be a psychic as well, knowing better than Jews about Jews and their experience.
Years ago I did have the pleasure of meeting over a period of time, quite a few fighters from various ghettoes and partisan groups, and thus have far more realistic idea of what they thought.
But then truth and reality are not your forte in this matter as your entire raison de’etre on this site is driven by your hatred for all things pertaining to Israel, which includes most Jews. (never said all)
The only Jews you seem to tolerate are those good Jews who think and do like you. You know those good Jews that stay still when you want them dead.
I repeat; when people threaten to kill us, we will defend ourselves whether you approve or not.
Notice , I said DEFEND ourselves when attacked.
I have not called for anyones death
If this is English you cannot understand, then get someone to help you read it.
A note about hate; it is like a poison that affects the health. My suggestion to you is see a doctor if these spells of hatred persist. For the sake of you and your family
Now have a good day, there’s a good lad
Please stop taking the piss. You, that is Israel, has not been under attack from unarmed persons protesting in Gaza against an illegal occupation. Illegal under the UN Charter no less. As ever, I’m the racist for defending human rights. Give it a fucking rest man and own up to this filth you support, namely the murder or named civilians.
Another copy and paste there Chris?
Not too sure what sewer you inhabit. And, to be honest find it very difficult to believe you have any children given your bloodlust for the murder of Palestinian youths – you are no different than those folk who brought us the Holocaust, that is, you actually revel in this disgrace and demand more of it.
Have you no shame man?
Which of your personae are you posting in now Chris?
Well I have to hand it to Ian I didn’t know the plural of persona. I guess this proves that if it were not for Israel the world would be up the creek without a paddle
Another obvious copy/paste job Chris? Spot them a mile off.
Hows this for ‘copy & paste’ Ian. Fuck off you disgust me for your support for murder. Can I be clearer?
Do cintrol your language; its rather unbecoming
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and since then Hamas has dedicated irself to making war against the Jews.
Recently it tryed to soften its language by tinkering with its charter, but basically their aims are still the same, the destruction of Israel
As I have repeatedly said, when the safety of Jews was in the hands of others, Jews died
Now we look to ourselves to ensure the safety of Jews, and as such we will make the necessary assesments as to the threat levels that exist and respond accordingly
Seventeen years ago Jews in Israel were being blown up in restaurants, cinemas, supermarkets, busses and hotels by the likes of the current rulers of Gaza, Hamas and others.
Now its pretty safe in Israeli cities and the Governments intention is to keep it that way
The Palestinians have ignored or walked away from every Israeli peace offer. because as Arafat was repoered to have said,’ if I make peace with Israel I’ll end up like Sadat
So until the Palestinians give up on trying to destroy Israel. a low level conflict with a small number of casualties on both sides will continue.
The mayhem and carnage that exists in Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan and numerous other places is a stark reminder of how seriously bad the situation and the death toll can be; so Israel defends itself while Hamas tries to maintain its credibllity by gambling with the lives of the people of Gaza
I find the assassination of innocent unarmed protesters in Gaza ‘rather unbecoming’ Galber, their murders that you support – so cut the BS & howling. You support the murder and maiming of innocents, among them youths – one day those giving the orders in israel and those carrying our said orders will be brought before The Hague and tried for war crimes. End off.
Chris, I will not moderate out your opinions, nor try to close down your voice. However much I oppose it or believe you are at best, insincere. But I can ask you to please tone down the personal abuse. This is clearly a website that supports the truth (which pretty much runs parallel to the Zionist narrative – with a few detours) and the narrative you support is well, poppycock. If you wish to attempt to expose us as liars, you are free to try. If you wish to play with the exception – rule strategy (bring examples of Zionist exceptions to suggest they are the rule, whilst claiming any anti-Israel transgressions are the exception rather than the rule) – you can do that too. I don’t care and there is absolutely nothing in your arsenal that can concern me. But as I am giving you free reign here to attempt to test out your propaganda, I can ask you to remain at least slightly civil. Some of your recent posts have been nothing but abusive. Given what you post about me elsewhere, I have every legitimate right to bounce you out of here, but I think you are funny. So I don’t really want to.
David – In a BTL comment in a response to a previous blogpost of yours, Chris likened his principles to those from the French Revolution. At the time, I had just finished “A Place of Greater Safety” by Hilary Mantel and it struck me that what followed the 1789 revolution with its ideals of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity was the Reign of Terror. I wondered how Chris would square his political philosophy with such an outcome. If Chris’ vitriol from this thread were reflected into actions, I think I have my answer.
Tangentially, but interestingly, despotic authoritarianism seems to follow such revolutions. The Russian Revolution was also followed by a series of purges and in China, the revolution culminated in the Cultural Revolution. Given the probability/possibility for such outcomes, it seems to me that Socialism would work best within a purely consensus based framework rather than the imposed model. The kibbutz movement demonstrated a practical example of this. On this basis, I wonder why those with such ideals in the UK have not set up kibbutz style organisations within which they can live freely, equally etc? It certainly meets a ‘think global, act local’ philosophy with reduced risk of subjugating those of the population that do not want to live in this way.
Chris – You will note that many of the architects of the French and Russian Revolutions including Danton, Robespierre and Desmoulins; Kamenev, Zinoviev and Trotsky (to name but a few) met the same fate as Louis XVI, Antoinette and the Romanovs. Today’s revolutionary can easily be tomorrow’s dead traitor so be careful what you wish for. Instead, have you considered opting for a practical and peaceful form of socialism? You could be form a communal farm in Wales. If history is anything to go by there would be less bloodshed and a whole lot more liberty, equality and fraternity.
Thanks Peach. The Kibbutz within the UK idea would go the same way as the Israeli version. The trouble with any hard-core socialist enterprise that exists within a more capitalist system is that the dream dies with the founders. As children grow up in an environment that is materialistically ‘wanting’, they cannot help but be attracted by the bright lights of the city and how much money city kids have in their wallets.
Dear progresive racist (my reason for using this term was explained earlier, and can be repeated if necessary)
I have repeated often that we Jews are not marching to our slaughter anymore, and so we will DEFEND ourselves against all comers, incuding Hamas in Gaza.
There exists a de facto, if not declared war between Israel and Hamas.
If Hamas attacks Israel, directly or indirectly, Israel has the right and duty to DEFEND itself and its people; this is called the ‘right to self defence’. You will even find it the charter of that bastion of ‘institutionalised anti-Israelism, the United Nations
Your constant repetition of the terms ‘murder’,’murderer’, ‘assasination’ and ‘unarmed’ are meaningless without context.
These are all key terms repeated ad infinitum, following the dictum of Stalin, Goebels or someone similar who said ‘If you repeat a lie often enough it will eventually become the truth’.
Now to a person like yourself who appears to believe that Israel does not have a right to exist in any borders, this is meaning less
To most Jews Israel does exist, and believe that until the Palestinians attempt to make a real peace, Israel has the RIGHT TO SELF DEFENCE
When they stop trying to kill us, we will no longer need to respond and DEFEND ourselves
You are not a serious or sincere contributor here Chris so there is no reason to offer serious or sincere response.
Reading about Chris vilfying you on other sites, does he do that to me as well, and if so which sites
Have a good one
I haven’t seen any comments about you specifically although he makes references to the Zionist posters here as a group. He is prolific online and he uses his real identity almost wherever he posts, so he isn’t difficult to find. When reading him, you realise how lost he is in he hate though. I have rarely, if ever seen him question propaganda material however distorted it is. It just gets swallowed hole. He has rather a dark image of Israel in his head. And one far removed from reality.
As I said earlier on, ‘if you repeat a lie often enough it eventually becomes the truth’ (Goebels, Stalin or someone similar)
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