Have you heard the one about the Jewish activists who said Kaddish for Palestinian terrorists?
The story starts in November 2015 during the ‘stabbing intifada‘ that saw a wave of stabbing attacks by Palestinians against Israelis. British students honoured Palestinian terrorists who died whilst killing or trying to kill Israelis.
The great invasion
Fast forward to May 2018. The Hamas are weak and facing unrest inside the Gaza strip. We cannot know for sure whether the idea of a border protest was really a grassroots movement or not, but if it were, it was soon hijacked by Hamas. They began promoting ‘peaceful protest’ along the Gaza border with Israel. Then using peaceful demonstrators as human shields, violent operatives could elicit a military response by trying to engage in attacks. Hamas was back doing what it does best, manipulating the narrative.
On the first day, 30 march, seventeen Palestinians were killed by the IDF. All male and aged between 19 to 32. Israel claimed most fatalities were terrorists. By the time 14 May approached, about fifty Palestinians had died. These included a group of six Hamas operatives who died handling explosives, and another four from the Islamic Jihad who seem to have died the same way.
What was absolutely clear on the morning of 14 May, was that with the explosives, kite bombs and armed operatives, the vast majority of fatalities had been engaged in violent activity.
The fourteenth May
Israel had been warning people not to attempt to cross the border. With Israeli citizens less than a mile away, there was no room for error. On 14 May between 59 and 62 people were killed. With the US embassy in Jerusalem opening the same day, international media played their role to perfection. They created a dual screen image. On the one side, celebrating Israelis, on the other dead Palestinians.
Watching the scenes from Gaza was difficult. The media doesn’t catch the firefight when eight terrorists reach the border. They don’t see terrorists laying explosives either. The media camera just zooms in on smoke and Palestinians in a crowd, as the death toll in the news ticker keeps rising. The obvious conclusion is that Israelis are just shooting into the crowd. Carefully selected or doctored images sent to the news outlets by the Hamas PR machine make it all worse. The word ‘massacre’ begins to appear.
The Jewish left
Since the violence of the Second Intifada exposed the mirage of Oslo, most of the Israeli left shifted a little to the right. They see themselves as the ‘pragmatic’ left. A minority took a different path and shifted to the left. A small band who sit on the borders between Zionism and non-Zionism. Still Zionist, but only to the extent that Israel already exists.
For the most part they agree with the sentiments of the anti-Israel movements even if they do not support the goals. They feel major internal discomfort when they see Israel behaving in a way they view as unnecessary. These Jews, normally young and from privileged Ashkenazi backgrounds, are part of a tiny minority of the community. They feel frustrated, and because their voice has been rendered so irrelevant by reality, politically disenfranchised.
The representatives
Groups like Yachad in the UK or J-Street in the US, formed to provide an ‘alternative’ voice for these people. They are hindered by three main factors. Firstly their support-base is small. Secondly they are currently politically redundant and thirdly, most potential support comes from a part of the Jewish community that is best defined as ‘disinterested’. To maintain public awareness of their existence, these groups have to make noise. This results in them taking action that will inevitably raise anger in the majority of the community. The publicity they receive from the backlash remains their best recruitment tool. The events of May 14th provided a near-perfect scenario.
The May 16th gathering
An event was advertised on Facebook called ‘Kaddish for Gaza’. It was hosted by a new group called ‘Jews against the killing in Gaza’. Organisers insist they are ‘unaffiliated’.
As with the extreme anti-Zionists like JVL these people create different groups to make them seem more numerous than they are, as well as to protect existing organisations from ‘brand’ damage. At the event people who flirt with Yachad and Jewdas and Meretz attended. Left wing Zionists and anti-Zionists together.
The Kaddish ringleaders
The person sharing the event in the image above is Amos Schonfield, of Yachad. He is listed as attending but does not seem to have gone. Amos currently represents Yachad at the Board of Deputies of British Jews.
Maya Ilany, the Deputy Director of Yachad, also indicated she would go to the event. I am not sure if she did. She apparently removed her name from the list of attendees on May 19th. I have asked her why she did this, but so far, have no response from her.
On Facebook, about sixty are listed as having attended this event. About twenty of these did not attend. I have no intention of listing all the names because I am interested only in the ringleaders. People in responsible posts who interact with Jewish youth from a position of authority.
Originally offensive
The event was always offensive. This people don’t meet at Parliament Square to say Kaddish for Jewish victims of terrorism. It is obscene virtue signalling and a perfect opportunity to stick two fingers up at the establishment. It is why many of those who attended have an image like this somewhere on their Facebook page:
The truth becomes known
During the early hours of May 16, the news broke that Hamas had publicly identified fifty of the fatalities as being operatives. Islamic Jihad had named three of the fallen as their own a day earlier. What this meant was that the list of 60 names the organisers were carrying with them, was effectively a list of terrorists. The nature of the event had changed from a distasteful act of virtue signalling, into a group of Jewish people about to say Kaddish for Hamas terrorists.
At this point, all the arguable legitimacy for the event fell away. They would be saying Kaddish for terrorists. Any responsible ‘influencer’ would understand the essence of the event had changed. The responsible thing, the ethical option, would have been to cancel the event. But they didn’t cancel, they went ahead, and that is unforgivable.
The event
Joseph from Israel Advocacy Movement made a video of the event which he uploaded to YouTube:
The man in the video screenshot who read out many of the names of the terrorists is Rob Abrams. Rob is the Youth Engagement Coordinator at the Jewish Council on Racial Equality. The other person who read out the names is Rachel Diamond-Hunter:
As an example of Rachel’s activities, here is a 2015 post from Malia Bouattia giving a ‘shout out’ to her for coordinating a ‘confront Israeli Apartheid’ event sponsored by BDS and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign.
Yochy Davis, a Zionist who came to witness the disgraceful event was visibly stopped from filming. Firstly by the bullyish Daniel Mackintosh:
Helping Daniel remove Yochy was an unidentified woman who spoke with an Israeli accent. She pushed Yochy, stood ‘guard’ over her for much of the time and tried to interrupt filming on more than one occasion.
Yochy was also interrupted several times by Jon Roiser:
Jon Roiser was there with Anna Roiser:
Anna is on the staff of the New Israel Fund. Here are both of them tagged into an image at the Yachad Gala 2018:
Other notable people listed on Facebook as attending (unverified actual attendance) include Annie Cohen, the Jewdas anti-Zionist who ran for UJS president. Also Charlotte Nichols from the Young Labour National Committee. Charlotte is a recent convert who spends time aligning with other anti-Zionists to attack some of those fighting antisemitism in the Labour Party on Twitter:
And yes, you read that tweet right. A recent convert belittling the great work Labour Against Antisemitism do by dismissing their input with the word ‘goysplaining‘. Another who did attend is Joseph Finlay, Jewdas founder, who describes himself as a contributor to the ‘New York Times and Huff Post UK, Vice, The Forward, Jewish Chronicle’.
Another attendee was Sam Alston. Sam was an intern at Yachad at one time. He now works for LJY-Netzer who work with hundreds of young liberal Jews.
Two more activists listed as attending but unconfirmed as being present. One was Ella Janner-Klausner. A ‘youth-leader’ from Netzer (RSY).
And part of the Jsoc at Goldsmiths.
Another was Charlotte Fischer. Charlotte works for Citizens UK as the ‘Senior Community Organiser with the Jewish community’. In 2015 Charlotte was named as one of the 40 ‘inspirational individuals poised to define Anglo-Jewry in the years to come’.
Another LJY-Netzer movement worker that attended was Simon Lovick.
Another LJY Netzer
Not to be left out, RSY-Netzer were also represented by Jake Cohen. Jake was one of two people who wrote a blog defending their decision to take part. The word terrorist does not appear in his article.
Perhaps it is not surprising RSY Netzer was well represented. The Director of Informal Education of the Reform Movement was in attendance. Josh Martin.
Jake Cohen was not the only attendee to write a blog AFTER the news about Hamas was known and in support of the event. Nina Morris Evans also did. The headline (courtesy of a Jewish News editor) suggested those people killed by Israel were ‘murdered’.
Nina wasn’t alone. She was with her mother, Abigail Morris.
Abigail is the CEO of the Jewish Museum. This is a list of presentations she made at the 2017 Limmud.
Finally, the Rabbi leading prayers at the event was Rabbi Leah Jordan
Leah is the Student and Young Adult Chaplain for Liberal Judaism.
Mitzvot and terrorists
The event itself began badly and got worse (Jonathan Hoffman’s analysis was published here). There was talk of how Israel ‘murders’ Palestinians. Mention of how protesting Palestinians are just performing a ‘Mitzvah’. Then the names were read out. All of them. Those that brought explosives to the fence, those that died in a firefight with Israeli soldiers. All the names. Including approximately 53 terrorists. Kaddish was said for them all.
The truly sickening thought is this. Imagine the eight terrorists had not been killed by Israeli soldiers at the fence. What if they had killed the soldiers, broken through, reached a neighbouring town and massacred Jewish residents. What then? Then there would have been none of these Jews in Parliament Square. As the Jewish bodies had been buried, these Jews would not have publicly come to mourn and say Kaddish. Think about how twisted that is.
There is little difference between anti-Israel activists holding a vigil for terrorists at SOAS, and the people who said Kaddish at Parliament Square. The actions of those who were responsible for not raising a voice against, or cancelling this event are disgraceful. Some of these people are involved in summer camps that work with children. I wouldn’t want my children near anyone who is connected with this, nor the organisations that allow them to act as ‘influencers’. They wanted to make the community angry. I think it is safe to say they succeeded.
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I simply don’t understand this. As a non-Jew who has worked quietly to support Israel for years, is proud to call myself a Zionist, who has written more than once about the moral standing of the IDF, who has defended IDF actions in this current mockery of a peace march, and more, how is it possible for Jews not to see how firmly they have placed themselves on the wrong side, hand-in-hand with the PSC and all the other haters. It is certainly ethically right to mourn the loss of any human life. But saying kaddish for terrorists is distasteful, not ethical. If they could find the names of those who were really civilians, including the children, praying for their souls might be acceptable. Barely.
Dennis
The trouble is many Jews have accepted the liberal narative that the Palestinians are the victims and Israel is a demon – JVP in the US use a figure of 5%
These Jews only constitute a small part of the community, but interested parties have magnified their message to levels far greater than their numbers warrant – it makes good propoganda and gives the appearance of disunity and confusion.
The enemies of Israel and the Jews are nobodies fool and are extremely good at what they do; they have the numbers, the finance and the backing of parts of a very supine media and political class
“they have the numbers, the finance and the backing of parts of a very supine media and political class”
Tut tut. Would that be conspiracy theory? That’s a heinous crime to certain groups … a blog in itself.
More rubbish, Davy. Is that really the best you can do? Do try and keep up!
Today, May 22, is the First Anniversary of the Manchester Arena bombing by a savage Islamofascist terrorist.
“The Manchester Arena bombing was an Islamist terrorist attack in Manchester, United Kingdom on 22 May 2017. A suicide bomber detonated a shrapnel-laden homemade bomb as people were leaving Manchester Arena following a concert by the American singer Ariana Grande.
Twenty-three people were killed, including the attacker, and 139 were wounded, more than half of them children. Several hundred more suffered psychological trauma. The bomber was Salman Ramadan Abedi, a 21-year-old local man of Libyan ancestry who had recently returned from Libya. After initial suspicions of a terrorist network, police later said they believed Abedi had largely acted alone but that others had been aware of his plans.
The incident was the deadliest terrorist attack and the first suicide bombing in Britain since the July 2005 London bombings.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing
Eurabia is learning first-hand what Israel has to deal with.
Checkpoints at ever airport in the world are used to screen passengers and luggage/cargo for attempts to blow up passenger planes.
“Twenty-three people were killed” … less than half those shot dead by constripted youth who were ordered to use live fire.
But Denis, they weren’t all terrorists. Hamas stated, and David now considers Hamas statements to be without question, that 50 of those shot dead by Israeli snipers were operatives from its organisation. Hamas, being the democratically elected gov. Of Gaza, runs the schools and hospitals. David smears them all as ‘terrorists’ in his typically deceitful manner, and in a couple of lines, blink and you’ll miss it. Why they were shot dead we do not know, yet.
As you say, Kaddish for innocents shot dead would be decent. Now that David has fouled your mind you too condemn the gathering.
David has done just as he sets out to do with each of his blogs. Deceive.
You’ve been Colliered
Dumb Davy, The MAJORITY of the dead were Hamass soldiers, terrorists, according to Hamass spokesman.
Why should we believe a Dumb Davy over a Hamasshole?
You lie.
Dumb Davy thinks Israel shot Hamas librarians. What a dumb-hamas-hole!
Dumb Davy, your Liein’ Taqiyya don’t work.
“Longer video of Hamas official admitting to 50 Hamas dead”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_6j-FMd_k
Happy Nakba!
Let me get this straight. If Hamas publicly and proudly declare that most of the dead are their Hamas operatives (and Hamas being a proscribed terrorist organisation therefore terrorists) we should NOT believe them? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_6j-FMd_k) But if Hamas say this was peaceful demonstration and the Israelis are a trigger happy bunch shooting innocent protesters we SHOULD believe them? Can you explain how this works please?
You pretty got it right Pamela. Further David doesn.t believe the number of claimed casualties on this day and previous ones because their ultimate source is Hamas but swallows hook line and sinker the boast that 50 of those killed on the 14th were our men and fails to refer to the thousands of non fatal casualties, the medics killed, the reporters killed, the kids killed.
This is not David’s finest hour and when I do get around to ” writing David up” this will figure prominently. Hooking up with the obscene Hoffman to conduct a vendetta against idealistic young Jews, with dark implicit threats about their omployments, is David at his worst.
The question is. Does David think Hamas are a credible source or not ?
They aren’t the source. It is the mistake everyone is making when they use this line. We already know that the IDF was concentrating on the violent operatives at the border. We also knew that (from Israeli sources) almost all fatalities until the 14th were operatives. Within hours of the violence Israel had already identified over twenty of those who died as terror operatives. Hamas confirmed what we knew. I don’t know if it were 48 or 50 or 52. It doesn’t matter. What Hamas didn’t do was dispute the Israel claim. That’s what matters. Everyone agrees. Almost everyone shot was a terrorist.
Oh I see. you are relying on Israeli sources. Well thats all right then. Eyeroll.
But of course, would you rather rely on the biassed BBC/CNN? Intimidated reporters that fear for their life and their job, if they told the truth (by the admission of few brave ones)?
I’d certainly trust the BBC as a source of new than Israel, collier etc.
Knowing Dumb Davy as we do, this statement about the BBC, should not surprise any of us!
Of course, Bellamy. There will be guilt decided for Israel before the facts are known, then an “investigation” that says they are guilty, and then over the next year or so, the realization that Israel was telling the truth, followed by weasel word apologies from various UN figures and such.
This time why not just cut to the chase and offer the mealy-mouthed, weasel-worded apologies up front? It would save time, money, and effort.
It’s not like Hamas’ schtick is a big secret.
So, Hamas(which, like Israel, is an elected government with a military wing) operatives —–> terror operatives ——> terrorists.
Bet you just love those simple join-the-dots books.
>’So, Hamas(which, like Israel, is an elected government with a military wing’
Lolz x 2
Israel doesn’t have a military wing then, David?
Hamas – Elected government!!??!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
just saying it isn’t my finest hour, like just repeating any of your usual put-downs, doesn’t make any of it true Stephen. Nor is it true to suggest there are implicit threats to their employments. Most of these people have jobs, and employers, that are neither listed nor relevant. I have only attached the details of instances where these people interact with other Jewish people, normally (not always) in a volunteer role. What is concerning is their ethical failure here in what is the primary function of that role. If it is nothing to do with the community, it absolutely isn’t mentioned. So I reject in full your implication.
As for Hamas and numbers. It is a pathetic argument. Nobody is denying that the IDF defended its border with live fire. Both Israel and Hamas agree almost everyone killed was involved with the terror organisations (no, we don’t mean filing clerks). There is LITTLE dispute on fatalities. There is a dispute on the wider number of casualties with anti-Israel activists pushing figures 3-5x larger than they actually were. Unlike dead bodies, these figures are far easier to manipulate, distort and misrepresent. I have no doubt the number was high. When you start talking about these as if *many* were kids, medics and reporters and therefore the fire was random, you are just regurgitating Hamas propaganda. You become their puppet. Stephen the Hamas puppet. Well done.
Oh I don’t think it was random David it is worse than that. I believe the Israelis when they tell me it was surgical and ebvery bullet was accounted for. I also think I get what is is all about but I sense a danger of getting drawn into an argument so will leave it there.
…if only you WOULD leave it there. But I suspect you have dumped another load of nonsense further down the page that I have not got to yet. 🙂
There is no rush Norm. Take your time
Actually, a fair analysis would show that yes, some unarmed civilians did die but, and this is the key part, the overwhelming majority of the dead were found to be Hamas fighters. Take the reporter who turned out to be a drone operator, after he died there was his “baseball card” the usual Hamas picture of their man posing with weapons etc.
There was nothing idealistic about the rally. By the time it was held there was overwhelming evidence that the demonstrations were anything but peaceful. Who brings meat cleavers to a peaceful demo? Palestinians? When is tearing down a border fence in the middle of a riot, peaceful?
But then there is worst part, Hamas charter is on the internet for all to see, as deranged a tract of bigotry call to genocide as one can find anywhere. The charter is who Hamas is, to ignore or excuse this is beyond the pale, when the people they target for genocide are Jews, the rally is literally insane. Where is their concern for the parents whose sons bodies are held hostage by Hamas? The rally is the delusional left at its worst.
You are wasting your time Ayatollah, the anti-Israel keyboard warriors here won’t let truth get in the way of some good Jew-baiting.
Another question for you Davy. Remember how we are always being shown photos of the ‘poor Palestinians” queuing to get into Israel? Standing miserably at the border crossings? We are told they are suffering, sick people and all they want is to get treatment at an Israeli hospital. So my question is this. Why aren’t they going to the Gaza hospitals that Hamas “run”? With the billions in aid poured into Gaza these must surely be the most fabulous state-of-the-art medical facilities in the world.
Is ‘Pamela’ oblivious and ignorant to the restrictions Israel places on Gaza, how it stifles its industry and keeps the population on a diet
Billions in aid? Think your getting things confused with the over $3.5 billion gratis advanced weaponry that US taxpayers have to cough up EVERY SINGLE YEAR to Israel for it to remain America’s fighting dog in the ME.
“With the billions in aid poured into Gaza these must surely be the most fabulous state-of-the-art medical facilities in the world.”? You’re one sick ‘lady’.
Davy: “keeps the population on a diet”!!!??? Read this fat boy…. https://www.albawaba.com/mena_voices/battle-bulge-obesity-gaza-strip-rise-672854
Conspiracy theories, Davy?
Which industries are being stifled? Tunnel digging? Arms imports?
You’re and idiot.
Then there is the Gaza obesity problem.
>’Hamas, being the democratically elected gov. Of Gaza’
Lolz.
“Watching the scenes from Gaza was difficult.” for David.
Lolz?
Not difficult for Davy to watch, because he really digs that antisemitic war propaganda type pornography. It gets him off.
Obviously Davy, you are one of the traitors of our people together with the ones that shamed us the purge day. Anyone seeing the pictures and videos of the ” peaceful” protest at the border, the incendiary kites wrecking havoc and burning acres and acres of fields, the swastikas on the kites, the burning of tires and the black thick smoke, the discourse of the Palestinians screaming we will go in and kill Jews, we will take their hearts out of their bodies, everything we saw disqualifies your rhetoric and your lies. You and all of you should be spit upon.
“You and all of you should be spit upon.”?
Come, come ‘Delia’ …. shot dead surely …. that’s immature Israel’s present answer.
Davy is as comfortable condemning Israelis for shooting people who are trying to kill them as he is excusing those people for trying to kill them.
Periodicly I reread the Hamas and PLO charters in their various incarnations.
This serves to remind me of the people and organisations Jews and Israel face.
Hamas, the PA, the PLO and all the other groups (to many to name; and shades of Life of Brian) all have two audiences; the Arab speaking world/street and the foreign (English and other MSM),.
The two narratives are so different, but with the help of MEMRI, PLO Watch and other organisations and individuals the truth is out there
Until the world sees through the camoflage of lies that emanates from the various Palestinian organisations and their backers there is no chance for peace and a two state solution
Counter chant this..
From the River to the Sea,
Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!
A close friend wrote to Yachad and yachad replied that they were not involved in this event. One of their members advertised this on a personal webpage. Yachad disavows having anything to do with this event.
Marlene. I do not think they were involved officially at all. In fact, I believe they may have realised this was something they didn’t want or need from the beginning. That I grant you. But it is still a little deeper than your remark suggests. It wasn’t just that one person advertised it on his Facebook page (your use of the word personal in this instance makes me feel you are here with an agenda). The Deputy Director of Yachad also indicated she was going to go. Let us give her the benefit of the doubt and say this was just an empty sign of support. This isn’t my problem with them.
I believe Yachad perform a service to the community. My stance angers many of those who follow my writing. I have had run-ins with Yachad in the past and I will again in the future, but beyond Yachad is a cliff over which lies anti-Zionism. Ronnie Barkan, the anti-Zionist Israeli who runs Boycott from Within told me once he views Yachad as the enemy. He thinks they are in the market for the same students. If Yachad were not there, do we have a voice that can reach these people? Some may argue we don’t need one or that we can reach them with our traditional organisations. Politics doesn’t work this way. It is a spectrum and you need every base covered. If Yachad are stopping some young students from shifting to the ideas of Ronnie Barkan, they perform a function. They catch a few from falling over the cliff. I have seen Hanna (the big cheese) work on a student audience in a debate. She is good at what she does and has a message that works with the audience it was designed for. I had no complaints about her arguments. I am not ‘anti-Yachad’ by default.
Their failure here was one of leadership. I get the leadership didn’t want to go to the event. I imagine they got annoyed when key figures showed sympathy. On the day of the event when it became clear how many terrorists had been killed, I imagine also they told these figures to back away from it. But where was the vocal public leadership? If these people suggest they are a guiding light for Jewish students – then where was it when these people needed leadership?
They had indirectly told their supporters to go. How did Yachad let a group of young people make so obvious a mistake? Many of those who turn up are people they know well. It is the failure of the moral voice of the left, not a single voice spoke up, that I think is the most troubling aspect of this. Not one? Nobody? Not a single person wanted to stand against the crowd and publicly suggest that saying Kaddish for terrorists isn’t the right thing to do? That’s the total failure here.
“saying Kaddish for terrorists”?
That dishonest slur again.
not dishonest at all. Nobody is saying every one of the 59+ killed was a terrorist. The consensus seems to be that most were. But unless you are suggesting that NONE OF THEM WERE (Including the eight who died in a firefight whilst trying to cross the border) then these people said Kaddish for terrorists.
How many of those for whom ‘Kaddish’ was said were terrorists, David? Got a figure given “THE TRUTH MATTERS”?
“Longer video of Hamas official admitting to 50 Hamas dead”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_6j-FMd_k
Happy Nakba!
The truth matters, but not to you, Davy.
Well they need to tell their staff this is beyond unacceptable.
If you’re a member of Hamas you are, presumably, supportive of its aims as set out in the movement’s charter. Hamas exists in order to destroy Israel. If you work towards that end you can hardly complain if Israel kills you.
Is Geoff supportive of every entry in the manifesto of the political party that he votes for?
Very unlikely.
“Is Geoff supportive of every entry in the manifesto of the political party that he votes for?” These people were not out on a bloody picnic!!! Don’t be so bloody stupid Davy. Whats the matter with you???
“Whats the matter with you???” It’s the humanity, Norm. It won’t concern you.
When Abbas passes away, will he merit the reciting of Kaddish as well?
http://myrightword.blogspot.co.il/2018/05/mahmoud-abbas-and-caricature.html
Did they ‘do Kaddish’ for murdering terrorist Menachem Begin, leader of Irgun? I know that Israel reverdd him for his terrorism.
Dumb Davy once again projecting Islamofasist pride of
9/11, London’s 7/7, Paris’ Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan, Bastille Day in Nice, beheading of Lee Rigby, Daniel Pearl, Boston Marathon, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Garland, Mumbai, Nairobi, Bali, Beslan, Bamiyan, Manchester, London and Westminster bridges, Brussels airport, Manhattan bike path, Ottawa, Copenhagen, Sydney, Moscow subway, Halabja poison gas attack, executing gays and girls in Fascist Iran…
onto Israel.
Happy Nakba Dumb Davy!
Hopefully David will have more luck with this vendetta than the previous ones.
This isn’t dangerois to anyone. But it does make it impossible to resist the conclusion that David isessentially a hater. A conclusion I have tried to avoid. It seems there is no depths to which he won’t sink to live out his hate for the wrong kind of Jew and for self promotion. Fortunately his vendettas are always ineffective. Despite his claims nobody is, in fact afraid of him. I am disappointed to have been forced to these conclusions.
yawn
You can do better than that David. yyyyyyyyaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnn
you know I have come to the conclusion my old chum that you are rather an emotional thing. You get really flustered for a few hours when I produce something like this, and wave you arms about in the air in indignation. You both demonise me and belittle me with more personal and vindictive comments. You’ve even returned with the ‘write-up’ threat which we haven’t seen for a while. It all seems a little, well, neurotic. Because in a few hours, you’ll have calmed down and we will see a Stephen far more in control of himself. Fascinating.
I am not flustered David, it is a bit of a turning point. I have always tried to see the best in you. People are always telling me you are a racist, and I keep saying no he isn’t ( not an easy position to hold when you have such a penchant for the company of the most appalling racists). I will maintain this position. The conclusion I can’t avoid is the conclusion that you are an obsessive hater and vendetta addict.
It is kinda liberating in a way.
well that’s a bit foolish considering at every opportunity I blur faces and do not list names. There were over thirty people at this event I have every intention of protecting. All of them said Kaddish for terrorists. I even just partially defended Yachad in a comment on this very blog. But hey, you are free to reach any conclusion you want if it makes you feel better.
“…..Kaddish for terrorists.”
David is using the Goebbels ploy of repetition.
As they say ‘Imitation is the sincerest form ….”
No. Hamas is using Goebbels ploy of slandering Jews. And they do so every single day. It’s not a secret, yet Western sheeples go along with it.
You missed your vocation David Analysing what makes these people tick with their complex neuroses is a full time occupation
Not quite Harv. David’s full time occupation is evolving into attacking Jews
Stephen, if David makes you so upset you could always fuck off. Whatdoyathink!!!???
Norm I think that this blog spot is a unique and invaluable road map, I would never voluntarily leave it. But you know nothing and nobody is indispensible
I learned that on my very first job I got on leaving skool as a carpet salesman. I was a brilliant carpet salesman and I thought this would enable me to tell the boss to fuck off with immunity The rest is history…..
Mr. Whitesnake summed it up best: “And you can get out of my face, you fucking wanker!” You’ll find a lot of these sad, misguided fucks at Limmud UK. They are not the only ones ashamed that they are Jews.
But it was not just idiots from Yachad, etc. Check out, for instance, the arrogance of Ilene Prusher – a two-bit journalist who thinks she’s Kate Adie – writing in Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-why-is-israel-using-lethal-force-against-the-protestors-of-gaza-1.6092579
As an ex-journo who realised – as Ms. Prusher should have – that he had to find another career, I can tell you that even her Wiki AUTObiography adds up to not very much. And now she is teaching at a Florida university that no one has heard of. Which says it all. Talk about “reprehensible”…
Oh my God its Mad Mike. LTNS. Hope you are keeping well. Hows the bike ?
“And now she is teaching at a Florida university that no one has heard of. “???
So you, a nobody, HAS heard of it and knows that she teaches there. 😉
David Sir,
Will you, Scoffie and the other luminary Zionist head cases you hang out with, among them of course Nuddering (Saul Freeman) be travelling urgently to New York City to burn at the stake two elderly Jewish Holocaust Survivors who had the temerity to denounce one of your’s and Scoffie’s most ardent followers at a Book Reading gathering organised to promote Prof. Finkelstein’s latest tomb – Gaza – following hot on the heels of last Monday’s massacre of Palestinian’s at the Fence?
Let me note some details for you: A highly disruptive Zionist Jew, not unlike Scoffie, attempted to derail Prof. Finkelstein’s Book Launch gathering. This young fellow, who’s name we are unaware of was politely put in his place by members of the public and Finkelstein himself on the premise that after Finkelstein’s presentation he could raise the first question.
Our young, ardent Zionist, after an hour long reading by Finkelstein was duly allowed to raise his question, whereby he castigated Finkelstein for wasting one hour of his time, and could have saved everyone 60 minutes by stating from the off that “Israel had not right to exist.”
During this exchange, all caught on video and hosted on Social Media, a very agitated elderly gentleman approached our young Scoffie and denounced him, further, and in no uncertain terms, this OAP stated that Israel’s actions in Gaza that week were no different to the suffering perpetrated against himself by Nazis during WWII – the elderly gentleman in question being both Jewish and a Holocaust survivor, which is now verified, this gentleman was supported in his denunciation of this young Scoffie by another elderly woman, who herself was also jewish and a Holocaust survivor.
In light of these facts, and the ‘New Antisemitism’ meme you push relentlessly, together with the fact that under the 11 Bullet Points attached to the IHRA Definition of Antisemitism, that any equation or comparison between Israel and the German Nazis Regime constitutes Antisemitism, I must enquire if you’ll be catching a flight direct to New York, no doubt with friends from GnasherJew & LAAS, to track down these Antisemitic miscreants, shame them on Social media via your usual dog piling methods, before burning them at the stake for being Israeli Heretics?
I’m really looking forward to this witch hunt, particularly given these two Jewish individuals, who expressed the same horror many other human rights proponents express, no doubt constitute an existential PR threat to Israel, and as such, must be silenced by means of accusing them of being Antisemites and Self hating Jews.
Of course, the PR sting in the tale is the verified fact that both individuals are not only Jewish, they so happened to suffer hugely at the hands of the Nazis’s and their willing executioners across Europe by having the greatest luck of escaping death at the hands of genocidal maniacs – the event that both witnessed being truly horrific.
What say you David, or, as Ian Kay will pronounce, I’m making all this up, despite all evidence being uploaded to social media clearly outlining events.
No doubt Nuddering (Saul Freeman), as with young Charlotte, who you lot have dog piled all week, will beI take it the one carrying the actual torch to ignite the fire pyre that our Holocaust survivors must be burned upon?
Chris. So one man thinks Israel shouldn’t exist and writes books and two other people who like those books think Israels behaviour is like the Nazis. Was that the essence of your post?
David,
As you are most certainly aware, so please don’t beat about the bush, said claim about Israel’s existence was actually made by someone with a personality much like yours, namely the Zionist rabble rouser who was put in his place by a well mannered audience made up of a significant number of Jewish folks, the folks you deem ‘self hating Jews.’
Further, the Nazi comparison was made by a Jewish Holocaust survivor, actually two of them, which was clearly detailed in my Post and is clearly captured by video of the gathering itself last week.
Now, given your hounding of those who transgress your interpretation of the IHRA definition of AS, specifically the specially crafted 11 examples of AS, I’d have thought you and your cookie crew would be hot tailing it to a plane to cross the Atlantic and capture these two Jewish critics of Israel.
Will you address the enquiry please, not deflect.
What are you going to do about it?
Will Mossad be tracking these two Holocaust survivors to drag them to Israeli for prosecution?
not sure what this irrelevant deflection about the opinion of two people has to do with this blog. Nor do I see its importance. These type of discussions are the arguments of propagandists. You can find people who will agree with anything. I don’t do rabbit holes. Never did. Never will.
David,
You are out condemning persons continually, Jewish or non-Jewish, who condemn utterly Israelis Occupation of Palestinian lands and the punishment the Israeli states issues out to the folk living in Gaza.
Why have you ignored the question and claim it has nothing to do with your Post or this Blog, when it has everything to do with your Post, namely a collective of Jewish folks in New York listened to a speech about events in Gaza given by Prof. Finkelstein and based on the contents of his new book.
Please address why you are either unwilling to comment on the fact that two elderly Holocaust survivors equated Israels actions in Gaza to similar Nazi actions. And why, as with the Jewish youths outside of Westminster, are you not condemning these two Holocaust survivors as you condemn everyone else.
Has your reluctance to engage got anything to do with the fact that not only were the OAPs jewish, they were, and self identified as, Holocaust survivors, and far from other audience members condemning these two honourable Jewish folk, they applauded their actions against someone of a similar bent to Scoffie.
The UK public deserves an answer David, actually from both you and Jonathan Hoffman, given you profess to be an expert on these issues and denounce and dog pile anyone who does not worship at the alter of Israel.
In future I will delete any posts of yours that makes a claim you want a response to that does not provide a link.
FYI. I just deleted one.
Nice to see that you’re finally taking out some of the trash.
David,
You watched the Video hosted on Social Media yourself, and my enquiry was directed explicitly at you – do you deny you did not see the Mobile Phone taken video now – as for the link, I did not Pin, and would need to go through 1,400 persons posts on twitter since last Saturday in order to find the Video, which popped up on my own twitter feed. So now you insist the exchange took place as described by myself from the notes I took.
Chris. I am at a loss to understand why you think this man’s opinion warrants special attention. If I find 100 Holocaust survivors that disagree with him, what does that mean? If the vast majority of Holocaust survivors disagree with him, then what? The video is a propagandists tool. That is all it is. Yes, I saw it. I had to go and search for it after you didn’t link to it. Please do not ask for comment on something that you do not link to again here. It is really bad form.
First, the left always lies.
How they adore Finkelstein who dares to compare Hamas and Hezbollah with the anti-Nazi resistance of WWII. Well, if you want to annihilate Israel, use the Swasitika (Hamas kites) and the Hitler salute (Hezbollah rallies) then you are not the resistance you are the Nazis and given the target is Israel, the surviving remnant of Europe’s Jews, there is nothing to talk about. Just as Hitler allied with Stalin in 1939, today’s left allies with Hezbollah Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. And the response of the Jewish people will be to survive. If it takes the Mossad or the IDF sobeit. The heirs of the real resistance will stand against the Finkelsteins, the Corbyns and the Hezbollahs and we will win.
So take your lies and narratives and watch Israel thrive and her enemies fail.
Rodger imluck
A 10 000 word essay.
Why
What has brought about the change
Or is it all just cluck=a=whacky=deedle=dook
Richard G “A 10 000 word essay. Why? ” I have said it before, and I will say it again, Chris and Stephen earn a dollar a word, paid for by Israel’s enemies. Davy earns nothing because he is dumb. They are the propaganda stormtroopers of the vile antisemitic left.
Norm Akbar!
Does anyone know who Mr Whitesnake is? Because in my view he should get an award.
Ellie Phillips,
Its Mr Joseph Cohen, who has much form, as well as giving him a medal, will you no doubt be having a relationship with Mr Cohen, who’s actions captured on video on many occasions cause joy for many, joy in the fact that he’s a thug who should be locked up in prison.
No it isn’t. If you are stating Joseph Cohen is a thug who should be locked up in prison (because of actions caught on video), I’d suggest you have just defamed him.
Horrifying that Scoffie refers to this blog being ” published simultaneously ” to a pathetic diatribe of his.
Interesting too.
Ian ?
It was a co-ordinated release. We had helped each other with some of the footage and decided to publish at the same time. I have worked with Jonathan before (for example on the Suarez report) I speak with him quite often, and would be happy to work with him again on a larger project. Jonathan has a ‘particular set of skills’ that are an asset to anyone engaging in research. I don’t let the ridiculous assumptions of others interfere with my own judgement of people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBH6XONDpes
Well he does have a particular set of skills, for sure
Stephen
Judging by the traffic on Davids site , he has been succesfull
Your blog always seems quiet
SO what do you reckon
That Stephen’s blog contains unarguable facts, while David’s blog is built on questionable accusations?
Stephen
So it’s personal attack on David now
BoD, Jlc Arkush etc not enough for you
Or are you jealous that his site is busy while yours is deathly quiet
Oh I am not in it for glory Richard and I know exactly what I am doing, what is achievable and what isn’t. To be honest I would much prefer to be sitting on a bench overlooking Roaring Water Bay, watching the whales and thinking about referring expressions. But duty calls, its my unwelcome little Shiralee..
I used to have a look around it but indeed no one goes there. Even Greenie get more action – at least when Gert from Bridlington is not doing porridge .
I used to live in Bridlington
Rodgers bodgers
Were they Holocaust survivors or Holocaust escapees whose parents were clever enough to get them out before the Holocaust began?
Gablbor,
You may rejoice in slagging off elderly persons, over 80, who managed to escape the gas chambers, others don’t. The OAP self identified as a physical Holocaust survivor and wanted to knock the block off the Scoffie impersonator disrupting a peaceful and well mannered Book reading.
The disruptor was a lone disruptor and the other members of the audience applauded to PAPs actions – the Scoffie impersonator squirmed in his seat and made a very lame excuse once it was known to him that his detractor was no ordinary bloke, quite the reverse, he’s somebody who knows a great deal about actual Antisemitism, namely an expressed hatred of Jews that results in physical harm to Jews.
Do I take it you too will be packing your bags to journey to NYC to seek out these ‘self hating Jews’ and exact punishment on them for daring to suggest Israel’s occupation of, and treatment of Palestinians in Gaza is equivalent to the persecution metered out to Jewish folk from 1938-1945 in Nazi Occupied Europe?
This is why I don’t do these rabbit holes. Two elderly people who don’t know what is happening in Gaza making comment. Chris, can you in future at least provide a link to something you comment on. It is a really bad habit not to do so. I’d much rather it dealt with the topic of the blog though.
David,
No rabbit hole, I actually took notes from the video evidence as it appeared on Twitter – Finkelstein Twitter feed in fact. However, and unusually for me, I did not Pin that post, something to do with being Dog Piled for having the temerity to call out Luke Akehurst as a ‘Gammon’, which he got a little annoyed about.
Anyhow, as you are one of the chief Witch Hunter Generals, I’m confident that your inquisitorial skills will allow you yourself to track down the Video I’ve related too, identify the two miscreant OAP Holocaust survivors, and then slander them left, right and centre as Antisemites – perhaps Scoffie Hoffman will assist you, maybe with taxi driver Garfield and the three of you can co-author and co-publish your findings.
I actually look forward to this as it makes wonderful PR.
Further, did you attend the Israeli Embassy sponsored PR marketing skills training workshop with Luke Akehurst, which stated an ‘PR Existential Threat’ to Israel existed in light of events since 30 march in Gaza – funny old world ain’t it David?
Of course it is a rabbit hole.. I have seen the video
We know there are a few people who survived WW2 as Jews who fled to Europe or the States and are now anti-Zionists. A few. We do not know if most of these few are Holocaust survivors (survived the Holocaust rather than survived the war). In any event that too is irrelevant. This person was what, 10 years old when the war ended and has no real idea of what is happening in Gaza. What he says is disgraceful ‘YOU are doing what Hitler did to the Jews’.
So to turn any topic into a discussion over the opinion of the memories of a ten year old boy who is comparing something we are unsure he experienced with something he hasn’t experienced is indeed a deflective rabbit hole. Like I said, you can find people who believe anything. You can even find someone who may have survived the Holocaust who will say something totally disgraceful to a Jew. In means nothing and is of use only to propagandists looking for soundbites.
David,
There is no Rabbit Hole and you are denigrating persons over 80 years of age who witnessed events in Europe firsthand. Are you instructing me these two elderly OAPs are pig ignorant, that they have received no education in the USA, that they have zero knowledge of events in Israel, and therefore must be suffering from Alzheimer’s because their opinions as Jews does not chime with yours – which essentially is what you have just claimed.
From my perspective, these OAPs were persons to be commended for expressing empathy for the plight of others and defending universal human rights – I’d actually give them a medal for shouting out an actual pig ignorant fool who tried to disrupt a gathering of those wishing to discuss serious issues as they pertain to Israel & Palestine.
Straw men, deflections and rabbit holes. In any crowd of 100 of anything, there will be a % of people who get it wrong. Using them as evidence of anything it pathetic. To suggest that because I point out you rely on exceptions for your arguments, you turn to suggesting I am ‘denigrating’ them. Just more straw men, deflections and rabbit holes. All this from someone who thought the UK was more ethnically diverse than Israel. Pathetic.
Just because two alleged survivors make the false comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany does not make them right but it certainly helps you in your desire to defame and delegitimate Israel.
In Wartime Europe, 75% of Jews under occupation died; life expectancy of those under 14 and over 40 was almost zero- by way of contrast Palestinian population and life expectancy have only increased since 1948 and dramatically increased after 1967. So, even if they did suffer through the Shoah, they are wrong. As for your use of their suffering in league with the genocidal terrorists seeking Israel’s destruction, well, that is your morality as in, you have none. You are no different from the KKK and the Nazis, just a different flavor of bigot.
Jonathan is noisy, but never poses a physical danger to anyone
He disturbs Jew haters, Antisemites and Israel haters because he is loud enough that he can’t be drowned out by the antis who hate what he has to say
That is why these antis try go after him; because they are unable to argue and debate with him
Oh if you say so Richard, its not something that lends itself to sensible argument. The best thing is simple exposure and empowering people with the reality. The reality is Scoffie is a moronic racist habitual liar. And is totally ineffective except when he is bullshitting some hapless Norfolk Methodist pastor and conning him into thinking he is someone of substance and importance. And then a simple illustration of the reality wises up the Norfolk pastor. It is not difficult. Scoffie is easy.
Like for example
https://www.jewdas.org/jonathan-hoffman-anti-zionist-hero/
Or…..
https://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/jewish-chronicle-defames-the-british-israel-coalition/
Or……
https://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/honathan-joffmans-application-for-chief-rabbi/
Like I say Scoffie is easy
But of course the quickest and easiest route…..
https://bookburnersrus.wordpress.com/the-crazy-world-of-yonatan-schoffman/
Galber,
I prefer that well known stalker and taxi driver Harvey Garfield myself, who’s Scoffie’s doppelgänger. However, Cobb and Cohen take the biscuit, particularly if they act as a trio with Paul Besser.
Chris
When you were kicked out of Labour without right of appeal, did you ever imagine you would be in such infamous company as Ken Livingstone and Tony Greenstein? Don’t be shy. Asking for a friend.
Rodgers da bodge
Were they Holocaust survivors or escapees.
Too many Jews like Finkelstein have made a fortune out of misuse of the Holocaust.
I have met many Holocaust survivors, and have never heard any of them denigrate Israel.
I have met a number of Holocaust escapees who left before the Holocaust began, and quite a number of them do castigate and demonise Israel
The difference between survivor and escapee is vast
Stephen
If you say so it must be4 true
But why do you and your friends reference Jonathan so often if you think he is a waste of space
Methinks you are all a little scared of him because when he barks you all whimper
Don’t be silly Richard, I am merely pointing out how easy he is. I am more scared of my sisters pet canary’s retarded cousin. The implications for David are of course obvious.
Rodgers da flik
My my my ; you certainly manage to distort and misrepresent simple questions in simple English
Where did I question the Jews in any manner
I simply posed the question; ‘are they survivors or escapees’ with an explanation to the question
That you are unable to decipher simple English makes one wonder how you can claim to have been some form of lecturer in something somewhere
Galber,
Please undertake your own Research/Witch Hunt, I’m busy Witch Hunting Philipp Cross for the £1000 quid reward money.
Galber,
As for your reference to teaching, i do have something to say about that and have been discussing the issue in a serious manner with Welsh assembly Members and a few Parliamentarians, namely the impact of the IHRA definition of AS and the 11 Bullet Point examples on the German History School of Thought pioneered by Martin Broszat, of which my own university lecturer’s were part, as well as Prof. Ian Kershaw up in Sheffield, whom a number of my peers studied under – it would seem the teaching we received and types of questions asked of us now breach the IRHA Examples, which means my Professors are all Antisemites, which is indeed strange as in the late 80s and early 90s we were at the cutting edge of History & Politics studies related to Weimar Germany and the Hitler State – frightening the consequences of this ‘new Antisemitism” promoted by Collier & Scoffie here in the UK.
Rodgers of the dodgers
You seem to be unable or unwilling to differentiate between survivors from the concentration camps and escapees from the Nazis before they could get corralled and sent to the camps.
The two groups have distinctly different experiences of those days which can colour their perceptions of Israel
I have yet to meet an actual camp survivor who denigrates Israel
I have met escapees that denigrate, and escapees that laud Israel
Rodgers da
You are referencing the video so post a link to it as you have mastered the link postage bussiness
Galbor,
I’m not a Witch Finder General & do not need to provide links to a Video that is freely available on twitter and that’s in the public domain – usually I’ll provide links when I pin/reference stuff, I did not pin this video, I took notes from it. I’m confident if you address your concerns to Prof Finkelstein no doubt he can assist, but it was attendees at his gathering who videoed events on a mobile phone, not a professional cameraman. Now, do your own research and allow me to find my £1000 pot of gold in relation to Philipp Cross.
yes you do. I have told you. If you post something against that asks for a comment without providing a link to the source I will delete it. This is a basic of all debating etiquette and an expectation of basic manners can be made here.
Rodgers
The IRHA is not a legal document; it is an advisory or guidance paper
It has been adopted as a guidance note by a number of countries and organisations to deal with what was becoming a major point of contention in circles where it was needed.
Until a better document can be introduced, and more importantly accepted, it is here to stay for the forseeable future.
Giving examples of historians and their work from the past is disingenuous, times change.
Years ago it was acceotable to be derogatory to people because of their race,creed/colour/sexuality and the like, whereas today that is totally taboo.
If those historians were writing today there would be totally different content animating their discourse than was the case in a previous century
Rodgers
If they are defending and supporting human rights, why are they trying to deny it to Jews
The Hamas and PLO charters are quite explicit in calling for the destruction of Israel, while denying any Jewish connection to the land of Israel
Jews actually are called Jews after the name of Judea which is that area around the city of Jerusalem (much history there from Roman times and the book by Josephus)
That some Jews deny that connection of Jews to Israel is well known and irrelevant for our purposes here
“The Hamas and PLO charters are quite explicit in calling for the destruction of Israel,”
Has Israel been explict in calling for the creation of a Palestinian state? No? Bit two-faced then.
Dumb Davy “Has Israel been explict in calling for the creation of a Palestinian state? No? Bit two-faced then.” This guy is proof that you can’t fix stupid.
“Has Israel been explict [sic] in calling for the creation of a Palestinian state?”
The idea that Israel should be responsible for creating a “Palestinian” state is a bit rich. Be that as it may, Israel has gone farther to actually creating one that the Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations, the UN Charter, (none of which ever called for such a thing, even the terminology would have been meaningless), the PLO, Hamas, etc.
BTW, what’s the big need? It’s not like there was ever a distinct Palestinian people. There are also all sorts of peoples, real ones, ones with unique histories who actually fit the definition of a people who don’t have independent states of their own. There are all sorts of ways for ‘palestinians’ to participate in a polity without having their own independent state. It’s not even that I necessarily oppose them having such an awkwardly ahistorical state under the right conditions. Up until and including this very moment what the leadership(s) want is actually just an Arab state built on the corpse of a Jewish one.
When you support them, this is what you support.
Dumb Davy, JORDAN is “palestine”. It’s on the EAST bank of the Jordan River and the Queen of Jordan is a self identified “palestinian”.
Has Bellers calmed down yet?
I recall he always gets really cross when Yachad is mentioned. If memory serves this goes back a few years when I saw his posts for the first time. He was writing in support of an article opposing charitable giving to some of the most vulnerable people in society. The ingenious reasoning that informed the opposition was that the donors were Jews and the organisers had an ulterior motive. I think this may have been the start of a series of his personal grudges, the outpouring and chronology of which has been a matter of record here almost monthly ever since.
Anyone know why the mention of Yachad pushes the dial on the Bell-o-meter off the scale? Sid Applebaum may know.
Like I say I don’t do personal grudges and if I did the alleged personal grudges would go back way beyond the time(s) you reference. It is no sin to be hopelessly ill informed but flaying around like you know what you are talking about just makes you look stupid.
Dear dear Ian Yachad are nothing to me. They are Zionists that perpetuate the myth of the Two State Delusion you idiot. There is nothing funnier than someone dipping their toe into something they know sweet fuck all about. I assume ” charitable giving to some of the most vulnerable in society ” to which you refer
https://wordpress.com/post/bookburnersrus.wordpress.com/3167
Idiot eh! That hurt.
“Nothing funnier….” You mean it’s funnier than a massive fat bloke going off the diving board on a Space Hopper?
Yeah funnier even than that.
Idiot and Stupid. You really do have it on you this afternoon!
Sorry Bellers, but now you’re creating a timeline of longevity for personal grudges that you don’t have?!!
It’s all well and good calling me names but you’re not being very clear here. When you spend so much time on the individuals rather than the issues and then angrily deny it you must see how this makes you look. For heavens sake man you’ve used the last couple of articles here to copy and paste huge extracts of your own blog that were only about individuals. If you’re not doing personal grudges then you are at least helping them out when they’re busy.
Stop flaying about Ian. You claim personal grudges and put a time on their origins. I merely am saying that if there are such grudges your timing of them is wrong. I am being perfectly clear it is you that are flaying around.
Writing about individuals is not the same as having a grudge against them. For example when Scoffie raises his ugly racist head, particularly, when being holier than thou , I slap him down. If I had a grudge I would be seeking him out.
it seems that many people here have gone off the subject of this blog and it has become a place for personal insults. I commend David (think its David) for putting this together. it does appear that all parties admit 53 of those killed were Hamas and Islamic Jihad members so for Jews to say each of their names then read out the holy Kaddish prayer is very disturbing. I have seen many news items over the past week however this is truly the worst and most upsetting of all in my view. Many of these people are leaders at the Liberal Jewish Summer Camps for kids and there are many parents who are now worried that this type of activity and teaching may be passed over to their children. Personally i think they should be removed from the summer camps and given other roles or at the very least the LJY movement should make a statement confirming that these sort of views will remain personal and not be discussed with the children some of whom are very young. thankyou
” it does appear that all parties admit 53 of those killed were Hamas and Islamic Jihad members ” … Not at all.
We’ve only Hamas’s word that they were ‘operatives’ of the elected gov. of Gaza.
Some of the posters on here are questionng whether IF they WERE Hamas operatives why that is a reason for Israeli snipers to shoot them dead.
It is David’s smearing of them as “terrorists” that you have swallowed that fills you with disgust. A smear is all it is until it can be comfirmes as true.
So you are saying that we were not sure they were terrorist (even though Hamas a terrorist organisation say they were members) but then again we are not sure they they were not and still the holy prayer which i recite for my late parents is used for members of Hamas and Islamic jihad.. Do you not think that before they decided to go ahead more time should have been given to confirm the facts and then a rational decision could have been made. Not that i agree but couldn’t they have gathered and lit a candle or pray for peace no instead they decide to recite the holyist and most sacred prayer for Jews. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. It is appalling and deeply upsetting.
No, you don’t strike me as a seeker outer Bellers. More a guy from the Chris stable who says stuff like “our dead” from the safety of a leatherette recliner in Starbucks with a nice milky drink to hand. Still it did mix it up a bit today to see the Bellometer wavering. It establishes a reassuring differentiator between you and the cretins that bleat from behind the net curtains.
The first duty of any coffee is not to be milky
Anyway it seems like this david/Scoffie vendetta is going the way that Scoffies vendettas always go
” It looks like its dying and its hrdly been born”
Ian,
First, I can’t afford Starbucks, and as for bleating, well, if standing up for persons oppressed, murdered and maimed is bleating, so be it. However, one likes to be on the right side of history, which regrettably, you certainly ain’t as you are unable to exhibit any empathy whatsoever for those your nation (Israeli) is oppressing. Again, grow a pair of balls and have the temerity to condemn your government, as i ofter condemn the fucking government that claims to represent me, which in most instances it certainly does not, unless of course I’m a supporter of wanton warmongering like the likes of Luke Akehurst et al.
Chris, the relative circumference of my ancient genitalia will have as much impact on world affairs as the occasional posts on social media by a bunch of strangers, anonymous or not.
Your remarks do evince a knowledge gap when it comes to Jonny Israeli. Condemnation of our elected representatives is a national pastime here. It is our right and is something that we take very seriously. We shout at them loudly, publically and often. However, unlike the less tolerant neighbors we don’t get chucked off buildings or dragged half dead behind speeding motorcycles when we raise our voices. Of course Hamas says they do this so it may not be true.
Most of our politicos learnt their craft from their US and European peers and just like them they are mostly self serving, deceitful opportunists. What we do appreciate is that they prioritise the safety and security of our country and its citizens and take the steps necessary to minimise the threat of being killed by Arabs . We continue to elect Bibi because his rich American tones make him sound the most convincing on this subject and most people would say “so far, so good”. Unlike Bellers, I would never vote for the guy; nowhere near right wing enough for my blood-lustful sensibilities. But I do appreciate his delivery.
So in summary, my testes will remain concealed. Death from ranting is more likely to come from blood pressure than public stoning and Bibi’s seductive baritone is a big vote winner.
Ian touches on an important truth here. What ” liberal Zionists ” in the Diaspora that fret about Bibi need to understand is that Bibi understands Israelis better than they do and that is why he keeps getting elected. That and my fraudulent postal vote.
nonsense, he keeps getting elected because he sits as head of the largest party between those that consider themselves the leftish ‘pragmatists’ and the religious right. It is a quirk of the Israeli political system. It is true that by and large Israelis consider him by far the best on offer at the moment (even many of those that hate him), but his lack of opposition is down to the system, not because of any relationship between him and the electorate. It would be near impossible to unseat the Likud even though they only get 25-30% of the vote. If there was an election today, he would probably walk it.
David that is an account of what being elected looks like. Not an explanation of why. And of course ” it is all Bibi’s fault ” is an important play in the Israelist lobby play book.
Ian,
As I stated, empathy, which you seem ceaselessly not to exhibit, although many other brave souls do, is an important human feeling.
Personally, I’m sick to death that those who speak out about Israeli State actions, undertaken in your name, are slandered at every opportunity with the same old tropes Collier signals continually here, namely, persons are ‘Antisemites’, persons are ‘Jew Haters’, persons are ‘Jew Baiters, or, as Collier expressed yesterday on this thread, persons deny Israel the right to exist or call for its destruction, which is utter crass nonsense – although continually utilised to slag off anyone who expresses sympathy with Palestine’s plight.
Which is why yesterday I enquired if David and many of the contributors on this threat would be calling out two elderly Holocaust survivors for condemning Israeli’s actions in Gaza – I think their opinion counts, alas, others consider them ‘Self Hating Jews’, which is an insult and grave injustice.
If you want a proper go at this Bellers we can do. I doubt you do, but so what?
In part, for Bibi you can read Blair or Cameron; two guys that had a very good understanding of the requirements for electability and the ground on which it was necessary to stand to achieve sustainable success. Moreover Bibi grasps how much he does and does not need to do to keep the train rolling.
He is a highly skilled political operator both domestically and internationally and despite the public utterances from the spokespeople in global organisations, mostly for a target gallery, his tenure has enhanced the prestige of Israel in most of the right offices around the world.
When election times come the voters typically consider most of the things that you or I would; the health and welfare of our families, the amount of money we will be taxed and more importantly the frequency of our bin collections. But here the conversation always turns to which guy is going to do more to protect us from Arab terror, Iranian nukes and other existential matters that dwell in a very real way in our minds. Again Bibi for the win. Israelis trust him here and it does not matter one jot what the diaspora thinks; not the liberals to whom you refer or even the big US lobby that will often make some noise to remain relevant but ultimately roll over when the rockets start to fall again on Sderot and Ashkelon.
In my life time and probably yours we will never have the luxury of a viable, concessionary, dovish opposition. There is zero trust in the Arabs for this and as recent events in Gaza have shown this sense is well placed. In any event our short history shows that most concessions result in dead Jews. And that is nobody’s cup of tea. So it looks like the Casa Netanyahu plaque will endure a while yet; certainly longer than the Blair/Cameron variants.
Well you are better placed to understand this stuff than me.
Interesting tweet from Adam Wagner
Adam Wagner
Verified account @AdamWagner1
May 22
Adam Wagner Retweeted Adam Wagner
If any of the protesters has any trouble at work or with communal orgs as a result of this protest I would be happy to assist for free to discuss their legal rights. Email me
Adam Wagner added,
Adam Wagner
Verified account @AdamWagner1
1/ I just read a blog post linked on FB which I won’t link to. A few days ago there was a protest outside Parliament by a handful of Jewish people against Israeli killing of Palestinians in Gaza. The protesters said ‘kaddish’, a Jewish memorial prayer for Palestinians who died.
Show this thread
2 replies . 11 retweets 34 likes
I guess Ian will want to talk about carrots again
Adam Wagner
Verified account @AdamWagner1
May 22
3/ The Jewish org I mentioned is calling the participants in the protest ‘traitors’. It has ‘named and shamed’ some of them. It has called for their sacking from communal posts they hold. See the awful excerpt below
Nah, Chris was keen to discuss my wedding tackle this morning so I’m steering clear of any more ‘Carry On Activism’ from you lot for now.
Although, if you do have anything that genuinely interests you I’m here for a while. CST, JDL, Betar Ultras, The Hilltop Massive, Knitting Nanas of Nahariya, all very hardcore.
“Now they have been named, I call for action to be taken against these ten. By the Board of Deputies under the Code of Conduct; by the Labour Party; by Liberal Judaism; by Yachad; by others. I also call on communal leaders – including the Rabbinate – yes, including the Chief Rabbi – to speak out to condemn the obscene event. It should surely not be left to a few bloggers to show the red card.
These people should not be allowed within 100 miles of Jewish children or students.”
Signed J Hoffman esqu
It is not unreasonable to regard David as a co author since it was a synchronised joint enterprise
(((Jonathan Hoffman)))
@jhoffman1
May 21
Who was behind ‘Kaddish for Hamas’? We ‘name and shame’ at 10pm tonight
of course it is unreasonable Stephen. I clearly wrote my own opinion above. These people are not ‘traitors’, nor ‘kapos’. Nor is there anything malicious in their activity. They have been infected with a poison that is dripping from within the organisations that ‘educate them’. These kids are our kids. Our nieces and nephews and cousins and siblings and children.
David, could you please elucidate on this rather vile statement you have just made, a statement that clearly indicates you are against children being schooled together: “These people are not ‘traitors’, nor ‘kapos’. Nor is there anything malicious in their activity. They have been infected with a poison that is dripping from within the organisations that ‘educate them’.”
As an egalitarian and anti-racist I’m 100% opposed to Faith-Schools, 100% against Private & Independent Schools and 100% against Grammar Schools – all children are equal and should be educated equally as equal citizens within the Nation State – no if, no buts.
This multiculturalism that places equality above all else is well practiced in Finland and should be adopted elsewhere – you just desire division, which I’m opposed too.
Thank god my own daughter is educated within the moral stands I abide by, is totally adapted to other cultures and ethic groups, be they European, Asian, African or South American – my daughter shares her educational experiences with more than 15 nationalities, and the school has also educated Jewish children in the same environment.
No doubt, my daughter must be poised by these experiences, particularly given she expresses no racism to others, or condemns others religious belief, or think she’s superior to any one else she associates with on a daily basis.
Shocking stuff David, but its nice to know our education system and culture disgust you, one that’s very much multicultural, despite what racists may hope/aspire for.
my word you are an idiot. Do you ever actually open your mind to think about what the other person was saying, or is it force of habit that has you misread the way that you do?
David,
Really, lets recap: “They have been infected by a poison that is dripping from within the organisations that ‘educate them.”
What organisations are these David, are they Schools, are they FE Colleges, or are they Universities or are they Social Clubs they may belong too, such as Jewdas, or just Pubs they may visit?
Again, you seem to be castigating a multiracial society, one that treats all with respects, and that includes numerous Institutions & Organisations that go to great lengths to be inclusive and not exclusive.
Such bile exhibited to these young adults who express empathy toward the suffering of others is to be welcomed, not denounced.
No Chris. Try a little harder.
David,
Despite your own, and Ian kay’s best efforts, I’ll stick resolutely to the beliefs and values system that all are born equal, all are the same and that all should be raised in an open, inclusive society where hatreds are not allowed to fester – as I’ve first hand knowledge of a culture that one could hardly call diverse, which itself was caused by economic considerations, I’m pleased I’ve lived in multicultural cities in the Uk and overseas – we have ethnic conflict in Asia, but at least where I reside, although but a small speck, I’ve never seen explicit racism, although acknowledge its existence.
Again, I’m glad my daughter is schooled to respect all and not hate anyone, or fear anyone.
I’m also confident, that when she’s older and wiser that she too would express empathy and sympathy to all who are opposed and brutalised.
Again, I congratulate members of the UK Jewish community who express solidarity with Palestinian peers and condemn Israel for its brutal actions.
Chris seriously, you’re not addressing the point being made. You’re making a speech about something else. This has been pointed out to you sincerely but you are choosing not to listen. I assure you with honesty that this is making you look foolish to everyone. I have tried to help with advice but you have rejected this. I can do no more.
I don’t think Chris is the brightest spark TBH. I see him argue elsewhere. There seems to be a blind obsession to him that is too rigid to be easily explained away. Far too often he makes remarks that display his ignorance on topics that are the basic building blocks required to engage in discussion on Israel. This exchange is a perfect example of how his vision is skewed. Your description of him ‘looking foolish’ is extremely apt.
Ian, you and I know that Rogers is thick, ignorant and driven by unhinged bile and hatred.
you’re still talking crap. I lived in Israel for 19 years. You haven’t seen multicultural until you have lived in Israel.
“all should be raised in an open, inclusive society where hatreds are not allowed to fester” – except your literally deranged hatred of Israel, eh, Chris you little shit?
David,
The next time I require someone to perform a dance on a pin head I’ll happily invite you to undertake the task – I’ll stick to my universalism and egalitarianism, which is morally and ethically the correct thing to do if we require a decent World for all to live in.
However, such considerations here, and your adherence to Israel seem rather at odds with the ecological disaster awaiting us all, so will be interesting to see where Zionists will place Israel once our ecosystem is destroyed and the Middle east is unable to sustain human life.
Crazy Chris’ inability to understand any one else is due to his Ultra Narcissism.
It would be more accurate to describe the little POS Chris Rogers as being 100% opposed to people having freedom, e.g. freedom to educate their children the way they regard as effective and moral. No surprise there, then. He is a pathetic Stalinist.
Leah27z,
I’m pleased we’ve witnessed again the full, vile output of your keyboard. Alas, since when has inclusiveness and universalism been the domain of Stalinists – indeed, and if memory serves me correct, Finland is not a Stalinist state – actually the Finns successfully fought off a Stalinist invasion. Still, hate away.
Fair enough then I assume you distance yourself from Scoffies call for action to be taken ?
I am absolutely against all personal vendettas. What the blog shows is a systemic issue. A loss of direction from within liberal and reform movements. That is what should be addressed. Bashing someone on the head for doing something stupid is a ‘teach someone a lesson’ approach. Not my style at all. I don’t think any of the kids should be thrown under a bus.
And the grown ups ?
🙂 never one to miss a trick are you Stephen. I believe there has been a major failure of moral judgement. The Museum woman’s moral judgement is of no interest to me. With those who lead younger kids, it becomes problematic. I personally wouldn’t want my children to be influenced by them so currently would choose different organisations to send them to. So yes, here too I am addressing the organisations rather than the individuals. I think it is best described as a ‘groupthink’ environment. You don’t address groupthink by firing the employees, because the employees aren’t the issue. These are process issues, environmental ones. So you address the process and the environment. Problems such as these are not about an individual. In fact getting rid of individuals rarely addresses the problem but rather is used as a way of avoiding it. Both sides – the ‘victim’ and the ‘faulty system’ use individuals being punished as a way out – as a scapegoat.
David, if it is the case, as you state, that those who organised the Kaddish for Gaza should not be “thrown under a bus”, why, then, did you collaborate with Jonathan Hoffman, a totalitarian ideologue who has called for their excommunication from Jewish communal organisations?
I am not interested in your descriptions of Jonathan. I disagree with Jonathan on many things but I am not opposed to working with him on specific projects. These people engaged in a stunt they knew would gain publicity. It backfired on them. I cannot take responsibility for that. My role is to put facts down in writing and to give what I believe is a considered opinion. This I am doing. Given some of what I have seen in the last 24 hours, I am writing a second piece because I am deeply uncomfortable with some of what has been said.
David it does not seem to me that it backfired on them. You and other usual suspects are whooping it up but not to any great effect that I can see.
It backfired. Your face is pressed firmly to only one part of the window.
Could be so. I guess it depends which part
Assuming you have children (or nephews/nieces or friends’ children) … Do you think it’s OK for someone who says Kaddish for terrorists to be in charge of a Jewish youth group eg on an Israel tour?
Well Scoffie seems to think you are on all fours as they say
“Jonathan Hoffman, a totalitarian ideologue” – I see that Josh is the latest idiot starting to post here.
Please don’t try that one, fool. There is no distance between us: “Some of these people are involved in summer camps that work with children. I wouldn’t want my children near anyone who is connected with this, nor the organisations that allow them to act as ‘influencers’. “
Scoffie if I was looking for a role model for kids you would deffo be my first choice.
Anyway are you suggesting that David agrees with you that action must be taken against ” these ten”. Tell us the people want to know
Stephen. For all the disagreements that may exist between Jonathan and I, playing divide and conquer here won’t work. I am far closer to him, than I am to you. We agree the action was horrific. We agree that it should never have happened. We agree that the influencers there are a problem. We agree the organisations behind them are dripping with poison. We agree this infection is spreading and quite well funded by organisations such as the NIF. Trying to push along the dividing lines is pointless. Disagree with Jonathan on what he says, disagree with me over what I say and stop playing silly buggers.
David, people like Bellend ARE silly buggers. So what do you expect?
action must be taken against ” these ten”. Scoffie claims you agree on that. I just was wondering if that was the case.
Reply
You see David your ideological compatibility with Scoffie is not of interest to me.Well I guess it of passing interest. But it really is nobody’s business but his and yours. But the extent of the coordination of attempts to discredit people in their communities, and threaten their living is everybody’s business. The targets are entitled to understand just who and what is coming after them and why.
And they will so understand
Chris, David has already offered a response here. But I would add this. You have completely misunderstood the point being made here and responded to something else. In order to respond to the right point you will need to gain some awareness of the broad tapestry of Jewish youth work and its role in that community in the UK. David’s post relates to this subject area. Your response does not.
As a serious point and with absolute sincerity I can offer you advice here to broaden your understanding and prepare you for a more informed discussion. I chaired a children’s charity in the UK for 23 years which ran OFSTED accredited youth centres and local authority endorsed youth leadership training programmes. I have a detailed understanding of the mechanics and regulations of governance that apply in child centered provision and can help you appreciate the actual point of David’s post.
Alternative you can just continue to type speeches about your prejudices towards the education system in the UK that will cause even Bellers and the anonomistas to sigh.
Was all this in the time you didn’t have a country to live in Ian
Nibbling again Bellers? Better stick to baiting the other bloke. The one that you absolutely don’t have a personal grudge against.
Is that a yes or a no
These people are utter scum. That’s all that needs saying.
I guess you won’t be saying anything further then Leah. Thank fucking God for that
Another of Scoffies infamous vendettas
https://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/rabbi-danny-rich/
And another
https://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/the-dan-sheldon-affair/
And another……this is the funniest
https://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/hoffman-and-mick-davis/
I don’t know this bloke Bellers, but do see an irony in your attack on his ‘vendettas’ when you’ve spent the last couple of threads doing exactly the same thing with massive five scrollers about your pet targets pasted from your own blog. You’re two sides of the same coin.
Me and Scoffie two sides of the same shekel. Gnasher gave me an evil look and said I hope you aren’t buying my dreamies with shekels.
Ian not only do you not know this bloke you don’t have the remotest fucking clue what is going on
Yeah, I do Bellers but feel free to keep the slogan trending. I know you get a kick out of it and I’m happy to play along. It takes nothing away from the fact that you and this bloke are both playing the same game, so much so that if you don’t create some more distance between your respective tactics you’ll have Chris really flustered and won’t know his Squiffy from his Bellers
Aw Ian referring to David’s mate Scoffie as this bloke is not very nice
“Carry on Nibbling”
Chris,
I see no problem in any of your “Down our way” shtick. It’s an essential part of your style and you have obviously decided that this the best way for you to do you when you come here.
However there are times when I can’t stand by and watch you make a complete embarrassment of yourself. You’ve done it here with your total misunderstanding of the subject matter and have banged on about apples when everyone else is discussing pears. I tried to help you but you blanked me.
Now you’re at it again. You’ve done your customary switch and decided that ecology is your topic of the day. This was the quote;-
“…your adherence to Israel seem rather at odds with the ecological disaster awaiting us all, so will be interesting to see where Zionists will place Israel once our ecosystem is destroyed and the Middle east is unable to sustain human life.”
If you have any real interest in this subject area you must know that Israel leads the world in de-desalinization process, solar energy harvesting and Agri-Tech. It’s all in the public domain and easily verified by the most cursory of research or attendance at any one of hundreds of global trade events or conferences. I know that you will have to characterise this in your normal way as hasbara because that is essential to your position but you will just look foolish if you try that approach and in any event will be betraying your concerns if they are real.
Like it or not Israel has the only sustainable ecosystem in the region and exports most of it around the world including countries with some of the most hostile and inhospitable climates. You will recall that we had to drain swamps and make deserts fertile so we have a lot of experience of this. So when you step away from your keyboard persona you may want to reflect on the fact that by the time we celebrate our centenary we will, in all likelihood be supporting not only ourselves but also very large sections of human life in the region.
You’re welcome.
Ian
That goes a little way to explaining Bellers animus to named Jewish individuals and organisations
You seem to have rattled him to the core by tickling his tootsies
Stephen
The mask has fallen
You are not a preprogrammed rebot shovelling inanities
You have emotion like us
You bleed like us
Amazing
Earth shattering
The Bellers is rattled and shows emotion
And the weather has changed and it’s a bit cooler
Stephen
Your link refused me entry
Richard, It may have been the realisation that he was behaving exactly like the bloke that he’s always getting narked about; accusations of personal attacks and then some massive copy and pastes here doing exactly the same thing in the same way. If a ‘Scoffy and Bloffy’ act ever makes money remember you heard it here first.
Rodgers da Chris
Two days ago I met a real Holocaust survivor; he was about 3/4 when the war began and he spent time in the Lodz ghetto before his mother managed to escape and go into hiding with non-Jewish Ukrainians/Poles.
This much I could pick up as he refused to go into detail, and said I could read his books as he didn’t talk to much about that period.
He and his mother went to Israel about 1950 where he was educated and did army, worked, raised a family etc etc.
He complained vehmently about the current Israeli government, which in Israel is a national pastime; but at no time did he denigrat the State of Israel.
He complained about how difficult it was when he first arrived and more.
In fact, critisism of the government is done by supporters and foes alike; it’s mandatory because politics is sustanance.
But he never denigrated Israel and only said it was where it was and its a tough neighbourhood and you battle to survive anywhere, and he didn’t have to run anywhere.
There was also another survivor and an escapee there – and they didn’t denigrate and demonise Israel either.
A very interesting evening it was.
Rodgers de bodge
You demand that everyone must be equal, go to the same schools, be educated using the same subjects taught in the same manner. All very nice and altruistic
The Soviets, Red China, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Pol Pots Cambodia, North Korea (and many more); they all subscribe/d to that formula. And look where that got them ad us.
Just because your philosophy is of a type and mine is of another does not ‘neccesarily mean that either is right or wrong; it does mean that educational methods can be controlled and manipulated by unscrupulous individuals and organisations to further their own means/agenda.
Insofar as Jews are concerned, we are very wary of ‘controlled equal education’ because it invariably leads to bad things happeng to us when things go wrong and an easy scapegoat is neccesary.
This is talking of our history from the distant past to the present
Varied and different educational systems offer a far more balanced outcome as there is less/no barrier to inovation and free thought
Chris
Once again I must reiterate that you are ignorant of the the Jewish community in the diaspora and in Israel.
You ignore our history because you are unaffected by it.
We on the other hand cannot afford to ignore our history, because if we ignore it we may misread the present which can lead to catastrophic consequences for us, without ever touching tne non-Jewish world.
We look at Israel as more than just a country/haven/refuge; we look at it as a home.
So when our home (Israel) is under attack we rush to protect it, each in our own way.
And because we are aware of the way the world didn’t protect us in previous periods of anti-Jewish hate, we will ensure that we have the means to defend ourselves when we are attacked.
Especially if those attacking us have stated publicly and often that they intend to do us harm (try reading the Hamas charter which is unambiguous in its intent, and the recent ‘revision to that charter is nothing more than a panacea directed at a western liberal audience)
Galber,
One word only: “FINLAND”
Josh
David has often said that Judaism is a broad tent and that the views of Jonathan exist as much as that of Jewdas even if you or anyone else finds some of those views offensive.
Jonathan calls for the excomunication (your term) of these Jews
Jewdas calls for the deconstruction of the state called Israel without considering the resultant calamity that would befall most of the Jewish people
Which is the more dangerous
v
Rodgers
Israel is in the forefront of designing sustainable eco friendly systems that enhance and better human existance
The Palestinians on the other hand are at the forefront of damaging the environment by
1) Investing in war making tunnels and rockets instead of investing in proper waste water and sewage systems. Israel treats and reuses most of its waste water; while the Gazans pump all their waste water onto land or into the sea.
2) Burning rubber tyres that polute the environment with toxic smoke containing all manner of pollutants, that also damage the lungs of the Palestinians themselves
Whereas Israel doesn’t need to invest in war-making items. It gets those free from US taxpayers, $3.5 million worth, every single year.
Israel has industries that allow it the means to do whaf it does. The Palestinuans are strait-jacketed and restricted on what they can do. This you know, and approve of.
Suspect that tanks and jets aren’t eco friendly, Rich.
Rodgers
Finland
Not that long ago when Finland was under threat from those beatifully gentle and loving people of the USSR led by that cuddly old lovely called Uncle Joe, their choice of saviour and friend and ally was kind ole Uncle Adolph and his retinue of honest and kind gentlemen who never hurt a fly.
Today wonderful Finland exists in a utopian vision of wellfare and generosity, but only possible because of its reliance on the cheap labour of Asia and Africa for its cheap manufactured goods and the security umbrella of NATO and the US, and the import of the excess youth from those countries to do the dirty work of Europe
An unsustainable vision to my mind