It is Monday night, 23rd September. It has been a long day. Today was my second day at the 2019 Labour Party conference in Brighton.
On the first day I had spent my time looking at what was taking place outside of the secure conference area. Today I went inside.
The weather outside was cold and wet, so by the time I arrived the rain-free conference area was already crowded. I wandered around to get a feel for the place. There are numerous stalls set up on several floors but the ones that interested me were in the main areas on the ground floor.
As I walked past the Palestine Solidarity Campaign stand early on, the PSC Director Ben Jamal didn’t look happy to see me. It wouldn’t be the last time he would get to see me through the course of the day.
The issue of ‘Palestine’ was ever present. A perfect example was the Palestinian flag proudly displayed on the Momentum stand.
Out of interest I walked over. I didn’t say a word. As I approached the man held up a PSC lanyard.
‘do you want a Palestinian lanyard’
‘- no thanks’
‘there is a vote today on Palestine’
And that was it. The entire purpose of this Momentum stand appears to be to display the Palestinian flag, offer people a PSC lanyard and then tell people about a vote at conference on the issue of ‘Palestine’.
Do Momentum not have any other reason to be there?
I moved on. There are stands completely unrelated to peace, war or human rights, with piles of PSC lanyards that are left for people to take from their tables.
I came across ‘Labour Action for Peace‘. The person manning the stand was in deep conversation with another delegate. Someone from the Western Sahara Solidarity campaign had just given her a flyer. She placed it on her table. Apparently WSSC didn’t have a stand this year. There isn’t enough support. Not all ‘occupied territories’ are equal.
The single Sahara flyer aside, there were about seven piles of flyers in total on the Action for Peace stand. Only one cause was explicitly addressed. ‘Palestine’. Not one, not two, but three of the flyers were about Israel, including one outrageously that appeared to support the academic boycott.
I was asked if I ‘would sign up’ to receive information from the group. I couldn’t resist – ‘no’ I responded. I’ll be honest I said, ‘I think this issue of Palestine has suffocated real anti-war activism’. ‘Tens of thousands are dying in Syria, Yemen and elsewhere.’
I had gone off script so was simply rewarded with a blank stare.
I carried on. ‘I’ve spoken to ‘free Syria’ and ‘free Iran’ activists. They all say the same. Nobody cares about them – everyone is far too busy talking about Palestine.’
‘Palestine has been forgotten’ she said. If I was sitting on a chair I would have fallen off it. I simply looked at her. In response to my silence she simply held up the Sahara leaflet she had been given. ‘There is this’ she said.
It is as if the lights were on – but nobody was at home.
I walked away. In a secluded dark place, I came across a sad stand-alone’ table. A selection of a few flyers that people had left that had no home elsewhere. On that table was the flyer in the image on the left, from ‘Labour Friends of Yemen’.
There was no room for solidarity with Yemen on the stand of ‘Labour Action for Peace’. Tens of thousands of dead Yemenites, hundreds of thousands starving – wasn’t enough to get them to give up the precious space allotted to three separate Palestine fliers. This shouldn’t surprise anybody though – I did not come across a single stand anywhere in the conference that had information about Yemen. Or anywhere else for that matter. Oh no, sorry – there was one stall about Colombia.
Stop the War had a similar obsession. A rack of t-shirts. Only four mentioned a specific location. All were about Palestine. As an example, there is the ‘Free Palestine’ t-shirt in the image on the left.
I walked around some more, looking for some sign that Labour had an interest in international conflict beyond Israel –
There were none.
I made my way up into the balcony in preparation for the conference debate on international issues. It was already known that Brexit would take centre stage, but a motion had also been tabled for ‘Palestine’. I sat and waited. People begin to fill the floor below.
I spotted people getting their ‘Palestinian flags’ ready. I saw at least two runners, handing them out to people on the conference floor. Palestine, Palestine, Palestine. It was enough to drive anyone insane.
The obsession of the conference floor
The first thing I noticed when the floor filled up was how ‘white’ it was:
Whatever diversity there may be in the Labour Party, didn’t make it on the train to Brighton. This is just a bunch of privileged white people telling natives who live thousands of miles away, where to draw borders and how they should live. There is a word for that.
The speeches start. Emily Thornberry speaks. She talks about the big nasty nations, the hard-men leaders and all the troubles they are causing across the globe. Israel of course was on the list. Over and over again it was mentioned.
The floor opens up to delegates. Israel was lucky there is Brexit, but still – there is more than a few opportunities to hear some whoppers. 700,000 Palestinians were forcibly expelled the audience is told. Anti-Israel propaganda poppycock. It is met with a response of loud cheers and flag waving. The ‘free, free Palestine’ chant begins to fill the hall.
Another councillor speaks. I am a Palestinian he says. I am so proud he says. My father fled a village in October 1948 he said. 500 were killed in one night he said
I mean what? Even If we accept the rantings of www.letsmakeupnumbers.com/nakba/delusion – nowhere in either the civil or regional conflict did anywhere near this number die in October 1948. Luckily his father managed to flee. Sorry, I meant to say lucky he was expelled.
One delegate went off script. She mentioned the Uyghurs. There is near silence in the hall. When she had finished talking there was polite applause. A million plus in concentration camps? These people don’t care. There is surely someone in detention in Israel for attacking civilians with a knife that they’d rather be talking about. They doze off for the Uyghurs – but every mention of the word Palestine is met with loud applause and flag waving.
Events and bodyguards
After a while, even I got bored. The speeches were predictable, the upcoming vote a foregone conclusion. It was time to go to another event. It isn’t as if there was a shortage. three events on ‘Palestine’ had been held the evening before, I’d missed a ‘Palestinian breakfast’ even in the morning and others were taking place throughout the day.
The one I chose was an event run by a group called ‘Labour & Palestine’ – which is not the same as ‘Labour Friends of Palestine’ – who were holding a separate event later on that day. The one I attended was organised by ‘Unite the Union’ and had MPs such as Diane Abbott and Richard Burgon speaking.
Not long after arrived I was provided with shadows by the event hosts. Even PSC Director Ben Jamal came to stand next to me, probably to make sure I was enjoying myself. Which I thought was considerate.
Events such as this are truly a journey into the surreal.
The horrors of Palestine
Speaker after speaker spoke of the horrors of Palestine. It really is an amazing thing to hear. I am standing inside an event deeply connected with a mainstream political party in the UK, but I may as well be at a Hamas propaganda rally.
The speakers have all been to ‘Palestine’. They’ve been because it is safe to go. They get met by delightful hosts who are all too willing to take them everywhere they have been told they want to go. These delegations get showered with love and talk of justice. When they return – they are activated.
The crowd is white. Just as the audience in the hall was. A mix of nasties. The toxic Miko Peled, the ex -Irish Republicans, the ageing Marxists and the antisemites. Mixed in with them are a few yet to be fully converted. Hanging around the back of the room were the Arabs. They weren’t participants – but just there to make sure all these naive puppets play their roles as expected.
The nation state law becomes something it is not. The Gaza blockade ‘doesn’t let anything in or out’. Lie after lie. This isn’t political opinion, but rather a twisted bubble of hate-filled balderdash. The audience get told that Israel demolished 10 – yes, that is 10 – houses. Excuse me for interrupting but have you seen the 500,000 people who have just been slaughtered in Syria? 10 houses. I am willing to wager that there is barely a council in the UK that hasn’t forcibly purchased and destroyed more than 10 houses recently.
Hostility and exit
As the vote on ‘Palestine’ in the conference hall ended, the event that I was at went from ‘full’ to ‘overcrowded’. I was surrounded by those who really do not like me very much. There were three other Jewish Zionists at the event, so when they event came to a close, we all made a speedy exit, but not before one of us was verbally attacked for the crime of ‘taking photos’.
I skipped the final event and left the conference to write this piece. It is difficult to describe what I make of it all. The obsession is beyond parody. In a truly perverse twist Labour have obsessed over the one ‘oppressed people’ who are actually in control of their own destiny.
Truth be told, if the Arabs wanted, the conflict could end overnight. They would receive the state they could have had so many times before – and if they chose could provide their own people with the freedom they crave. The problem is – that this is not enough for them. The Arab dispute is not about the ‘rights’ the Arabs don’t have, but rather an issue with the rights the Jews enjoy.
I can imagine that the truly persecuted people of the world, from the Rohingya to some of the Christians in Africa would jump at the chance of having just some, just some of the options for peace that the Arabs of Ramallah have received. Unfortunately, they have as much chance of that as they have of the Labour Party delegates even caring about their existence.
The obsession is beyond logic and beyond understanding. It is based on little but a pile of fictions and yet these people simply cannot get enough, whilst all the truly oppressed people in the world are ignored. And this goes way beyond ‘international issues’ – austerity, the NHS, housing – real problems that would need the full attention of the party – are not as important as ‘Palestine’. The delegates are even reminded – recognising Palestine will be *THE FIRST* thing on their agenda if they form a government.
So yes, the obsession is parody. But the hostility and hate against Jewish people that this obsession generates? There is nothing funny about that at all.
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135 thoughts on “The ‘Palestine’ obsession at the Labour Party conference”
” I am willing to wager that there is barely a council in the UK that hasn’t forcibly purchased and destroyed more than 10 houses recently.”
So, UK councils just bulldoze the houses and leave the occupants to their own devices, David?
Purchased? So, Israel compensates them for destroyed homes? David?
Snake-tongued you are.
“Truth be told, if the Arabs wanted, the conflict could end overnight. They would receive the state they could have had so many times before – and if they chose could provide their own people with the freedom they crave. The problem is – that this is not enough for them. ”
Israel’s conditions for peace are total subjugation to Israel. with Israel troops embedded within Palestinian areas and Israel controlling any weaponry that the Palestinians would be allowed. David paints not a truthful picture. Surprise surprise.
Perhaps you might give a fair and more comprehensive view of the situation ?
At present Arabs are the 3rd largest political party in Israel and.are helping establish an Israeli governing coalition. By comparison how many Christian parties are established in the government of any Arab country in the Middle East ?
The Arabs generally have a policy of Palestine “from sea to sea” with generous pensions granted to the families of Arabs who murder Jewish women, children etc. Is this what you would term a policy for peace ?
As to weaponry both Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank are well equipped with weapons. Perhaps you are unaware of the thousands of rockets Hamas in Gaza has bombarded Israel with. ?
Given the history and background why shouldn’t Israel request a limit on weaponry that the Palestinians are allowed. If the Palestinians really want peace what difference does one’s weaponry make ?
Finally you fail to point out that Area A on the West Bank is totally Arab controlled.
At any time Israel’s military can enter Area A for any purpose!
If Israel desires peace why does it not disarm also?
We know you are patholoically obsessed with David & Israel, but even an idiot knows the terms of Oslo. Palestinians have had total control over Area A & Area B but they share security in Area B – since Oslo! Do you imagine there is no cooperation? Dim, dim, dim!
The Palestinian security team do a good job & their relationship with Israel is also good. If Israel goes into Area B it’s usually because of Hamas or Islamic Jihad but usually the Palestinians capture them.
You really should watch Fauda – you might learn something of the nature of terrorism.
I am sure you enjoyed the pathological UK Labour conference – they too are pathologically obsessed with Joos!
“You really should watch Fauda “?
Is that a documentary about Jewish terrorism in the 40s that enabled the creation of Israel?
Israel was created 4 000 years ago. It was by God’s decree. The same as Meccah/Makkah for the Muslims. Or should those Muslims be kicked out of Saudi?
Any kicking out was done by Jewish militia in the ’40s.
Yes, there WAS an Israel millennia ago.
Now, on land given to you by Britain you have created another ‘Israel'( the name chosen from a drawn-up shortlist).
You write “If Israel desires peace why does it not disarm also?”
I am afraid that I do not understand your thought process. Given the repeated attempts by numerous Arab countries as well as Palestinians to murder Israelis or destroy Israel, the result of a disarmed Israel would be many dead Israelis and a destroyed Israel.
When Israel was established in 1948 post the UN partition decision, 5 Arab armies invaded to destroy it . Israel won at a bloody cost – 1% of the population was the death total,( akin to the British dead in WW1) including the death of my uncle Max, the only Post WW2 male survivor in the family besides my father..
If the Arabs put down their weapons against Israel and accepted it there would be peace. If the Israelis put down their weapons their would be many dead Israelis.
Perhaps you missed the bloody brotherly love evidenced by Arab against Arab in Syria, Iraq, the Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Gaza etc ???
If Arabs treat their beloved brothers and coreligionists like that perhaps you could explain why non-coreligionists should expect different treatment ??
Almost 50 million non-Arabs(6 million estimated Jews among them) in the last century perished at the hands of non-Arabs.
You’ve recognised why neither should be unarmed. Thankyou.
“If the Arabs put down their weapons against Israel and accepted it there would be peace.”…… and there would be no Arabs in the region.
If Israel wanted no Arabs in the region, trust me Bubela, there would be no Arabs in the region. But Israel has tried for 70 years to make peace and foolishly they’re still trying. The
‘poor oppressed Arabs who these days call themselves Palestinians, unfortunately have no interest in peace!
Stripping its Arabs of statehood, moving its Jewish citizens into occupied land, eating up land that could be used as a Palestinian state(against International Law) is hardly a road to peace.
Should Israel annex the West Bank, Golan heights etc. and introduce one-man-one-vote democracy in the state as a method for peace?
Driving all the Arabs out wouldn’t be tolerated, Selfish. Wipe that illusion from your mind. Thus far it has been appeased by the world.
No illusion Michael, fact! If ever Israel wants the Arabs gone, they’ll be destroyed utterly. Lucky for the Arabs, that Israel is the nation of peace and not how you disgracefully accuse them of being!
Any total destruction of the region’s Arabs would spell the death of Israel.
If Israel disarmed, it would be destroyed. The Philistines don’t want peace – they want Israel’s destruction.
Nice commentary – love the irony.
Sometimes you must feel you are in an alternate universe.
All the best
Naw, you’re just believing all he describes.
What a fabulous true article, thanks john
Yep, It’s an article.
It’s an article every bit as much as you’re a piece of shit.
Just wondering what David will do next year when his prediction that the Labour Party dies has come true.
He could go and support the Friends of Israel that have left Labour … whichever party they are in at that time …. could be anything….. whatever principles they hold by then.
The idea pushed by opponents and the resident trolls here that we give a stuff about criticism of Israel and lobby to mitigate it is laughable and a lazy get-out to mask old fashioned antisemitism. In fact it isn’t even masked anymore.
We have known for 71 years that words don’t hurt us, knives and rockets do and to this extent neither the Tories nor the Marxists are our friends. Both have shelled out tens of millions in aid via the DFID to the Arabs who use it to pay terrorists to kill Jews and continue so to do.
Corbyn may have won a vote that allows him to develop a strong Pro-Arab, Anti-Israel policy. This changes nothing for us as it has long been the policy of all UK governments to help Arabs to kill us and support them post facto. Both sides are complicit and know precisely where the money goes.
Priti Patel tried to stop it and got elbowed for the crime of actually coming here to see for herself.
So whilst the trolls need to invent new reasons to make it okay to hate Jews, please don’t give them the free pass of thinking that we are bothered by criticism and that’s the thing that matters here. It’d be much more helpful if you stopped voting for governments in your fucked up country that supported Arabs murdering Jews and started calling them to account for wasting your money supporting Arab terror.
Talmudic devil twist everything around.. Nothing new here only familiar satanic plan.
“This changes nothing for us as it has long been the policy of all UK governments to help Arabs to kill us and support them post facto.”
Psst. The UK gov. has applied no sanctions on Israel for its actions.
Psst. The UK gov. supplies Israel with military equipment despite its actions.
And Israel provides the British government with selected military equipment too and most importantly – with intelligence. However it would be impolitic of HMG to admit it publicly.
A senior US Government official stated that Israel provided the US (and presumably others) with more quality information than the whole EU put together. Quite an achievement when the UK and vaunted MI5 and MI6 are included in the EU category.
BTW Mr Farmer – have you been to Israel to see for yourself ? Speak to Israelis both Jews and Arabs, Palestinians, travel around and see the facts on the ground and use your intelligence.
Go ahead – don’t be a coward. Israel has nothing to be ashamed of and a lot to be proud of.
“quality information” depends on what information you are seeking.
I’m sure UK intelligence lacks behind no-one.
Not sure sharing info with a Trump US is in the UK’s best interest.
Psst. DFID aid enables the Arabs to pay £893 per month to Kifah Ghanimat, the terrorist convicted of murdering Kristine Luken in 2010, believing her to be Jewish. She wasn’t. Both parties know where the money goes and continue to support a policy that encourages the murder of Jews.
I hear that Begin and Shamir were rewarded for their terrorism and murders by being installed as leaders of Israel.
If Ian doesn’t give a stuff I am wondering why David does.
Ian may have other forms of income.
Psst. Speaking of income, lets consider Ibrahim Ghanimat (brother of Kifah, above), current doing 16 years for the murder of Neta Sorek, a crime motivated entirely by the desire to murder Jews. He is receiving an income of £844 per month from aid provided to the Arabs by the DFID; implemented by the Tories, now adopted by the Marxists and they all know where the money goes. How come you nutcases are so keen to vote in parties from both sides that spend your money supporting the murder of Jews?
I don’t vote it only encourages them
Well I hope he doesn;t spend it all at once. Do they have some trndy shops in Israeli slammers
I bet Simple Simon wishes he had been holed up in one of them state of the art Zio nicks instead of rotting in that Exeter shit hole
Likewise I suppose Jewish militia murdered Arabs in 47/48 by only the desire to kill Arabs?
‘Supposing’ eh! Let’s get back to what we know. Consider Qasem Araf Khalil Atafra, convicted Arab terrorist locked up in some state of the art Zio nick for murdering Dvir Sorek; motivated by the desire to kill Jews, gets £813 per month from the Arabs via the DFID aid fund. All the UK political parties know where this money goes yet continue to support a policy that promotes the killing of Jews.
Pretty standard now to see the antisemites prioritising the murder of Jews over support for the NHS or construction of affordable housing.
You actually believe David’s hasbara that the Labour party is an antisemite party?
You’re a simpleton, Ian.
Speaking of simple, lets think about Husam Al-Qawasmi, the Arab terrorist convicted of murdering three Israeli teens Eyal Yifrach, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Fraenkel, 16, in June 2014. He had his monthly ‘salary’ increased in July to £930. The simple motivation was to kill Jews and get paid. This is possible because the UK gives the Arabs aid funding and knows that they pay it out as salaries to terrorists that murder Jews.
So, if you vote in the UK and whether you are Tory Liberal or Marxist, the people you support know where the DFID money goes and have chosen to support this over and above funding healthcare for the elderly and the support of the most vulnerable people in your country.
“the people you support know where the DFID money goes and have chosen to support this over and above funding healthcare for the elderly and the support of the most vulnerable people in your country”
More Kay-rap from Ian.
More HERsterics from “Mike Farmer”.
Lets get back to what we know……I do believe that was a question Descartes asked himself. His answer amounted to ” not very much”
You make some very serious allegations against DfID.
As in the past I have had dealings with DfID at Secretary of State, Minister of State and Permanent Under Secretary level,(I was involved in Development Aid to Africa, not the Middle East) I look forward to reading the evidence to back up your allegations of what amounts to criminal behaviour.
I note that you claim that two brothers are paid different monthly stipends,
“DFID aid enables the Arabs to pay £893 per month to Kifah Ghanimat”
“lets consider Ibrahim Ghanimat (brother of Kifah, above), current doing 16 years for the murder of Neta Sorek, a crime motivated entirely by the desire to murder Jews. He is receiving an income of £844 per month from aid provided to the Arabs by the DFID”
Why is that?
No doubt you have researched the issue before making your allegations, so you should be able to answer that simple question.
Interestingly, IF your allegations are true the stipend paid monthly is higher than the basic state pension paid to pensioners in the U.K.
I will enjoy watching a Government Minister explain that to the British people.
Gerald, rather than attempt your funny cross examination approach, you promote two obvious questions. Why are you providing cover for antisemites here and can you confirm that it is this DFID with whom you are associated? Perhaps the answer to the second gives a clue to the answer to the first.
So, UKLFI, a collection of well-fed worthies on the basis of a possible link have cut off a possible source of donations to an organisation seeking to ease the suffering of people worlwide.
As wth Israel we see the usual vindictiveness of these subhuman Zionist minds.
“MIke Farmer” was borne too late to be her Fuhrers first bride.
It’s time to “pull the plug” on the Sharmuta of ISIS.
Speaking of ‘easing the suffering’ let’s think about these Arab kids that are being deprived of essential operations because the aid funding is being diverted to pay terrorists to murder Jews. Priti Patel saw this for herself and in trying to stop it got pushed out.
This from Al Hayat Al-Jadida
Makes sense I suppose. If UK voters aren’t bothered about their own health services, why should they be bothered about someone elses?
” Priti Patel saw this for herself and in trying to stop it got pushed out.”
Another colourful interpretation of reality from Ian.
From The Daily Express Nov. 9, 2017,
“She has already apologised to the Prime Minister on Monday after failing to disclose a series of 12 meetings with senior Israeli figures during a family holiday in the country in August.
It has since emerged that she then held two additional meetings, one in the UK and one in the US, following her return from vacation.
In a further development, there were reports that during her stay she visited an Israeli military field hospital in the occupied Golan Heights.”
She broke the ministerial code of conduct more than once in holding undisclosed meetings. That is why she ‘considered her position’ and resigned.
Before you carry on worshiping at the shrine of ‘St. Priti’, that is the same Priti Patel who is now Home Secretary.
The field hospital was treating the injured from the civil war in Syria.
It was only treating Syrian injured as a humanitarian gesture.
Israel received no payment or recompense from anybody/international agencies.
This was funded by the Israeli public
There should be no political fallout from viewing a humanitarian gesture such as this hospital ( unless you think that Jewish hands taint humanity)
As far as monies from the DfID is concerned; the department is doing all in its power to conceal what it knew about the way the donated money has been used
It is being forced to reveal its knowledge as a result of the Information Commisioners rulings
Money is fungible; so money donated from DfID can be said to be not used to fund terror against Jews, despite the fact that it frees up money from other sources to be used to fund terror against Jews
The audit company for these funds has admitted that its audit was cursory as per its remit, while the DfID maintained initially that the audit was done in great detail
For the DfID it is better for the report/audit info to be suppressed to conceal the fact that they do not have any detailed idea of how and where the money was spent
Richard who the Field Hospital was treating, and who was/is funding it is not the point. The point is that Patel broke the ministerial code by making an undisclosed visit. That she had made a number of other undisclosed visits as well was the reason she resigned.
Ian claims that,” This is possible because the UK gives the Arabs aid funding and knows that they pay it out as salaries to terrorists that murder Jews.”
If you can substantiate that claim, which I am sure you will agree is a very serious claim, with evidence I would like to see it.
Because the final sentence of your post clearly contradicts Ian’s claim, “For the DfID it is better for the report/audit info to be suppressed to conceal the fact that they do not have any detailed idea of how and where the money was spent”
The Health services have worsened under the Tories. Labour(who David works feverishly to prevent in Government) would improve them. But David is more concerned with the welfare of Jewish-Israelis than he is with the citizens of the land he lives in.
If Ian cares for Arab kids he could lobby his government to stop destroying the Palestinian economy, and yes, withholding Palestinian taxes IS stealing, irrespective of the reason for the theft.
So the answer to my question is..?
Sorry Gerald, you lost me when your main concern was the pay differentials between the Arab murderers.
Anyway, you seem more comfortable providing cover for antisemites here, so that’s that really.
Interesting that your response to anyone requesting that you provide evidence to substantiate the allegations you make, is to claim that they are ‘providing cover for antisemites here’.
So to query your claims Ian is to support anti-Semitism?
Yes I’ve come across that kind of Stalinist orthodoxy before. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.
But if you are that insecure in the validity of your allegations, that you cannot substantiate them. Then I suppose it is logical to brand anyone who queries or disagrees with you an anti-Semite.
Ian thought you were in his little gang. Now he’s upset.
Poor lonely Ian.
Farmer I am not in any ‘gangs’ little or large.
You know, as anyone who reads the posts on this website will know, that on many occasions I have asked you to substantiate your claims.
I do not apologise to you, or anyone else, for doing this. If anyone makes a claim in a post, then they should be prepared to substantiate it when challenged.
I stand firmly by this piece of Stoic philosophy. “If anyone can show me, and prove to me, that I am wrong in thought or deed, I will gladly change. I seek the truth, which never yet hurt anybody. It is only persistence in self-delusion and ignorance which does harm.”
Now if that means that some people want to label me a Zionist, or someone who gives cover to anti-Semitism, or even a Red Fascist Spider from Mars, that is their problem, not mine.
Time then for you to substantiate your claim that I am an antisemite, Gerald.
“Time then for you to substantiate your claim that I am an antisemite, Gerald.”
I accept the IHRA Working Definition of anti-Semitism.
I claim that the content and intent of your posts have, on a number of occasions, fallen foul of that definition.
I am not going to get into a sterile debate about the acceptability of the IHRA Definition. Farmer you may not accept the Definition and you may disagree that you are an anti-Semite, that is your choice.
Now, if you want to claim that the intent and content of your posts NEVER fall foul of the IHRA Working Definition. That will be an interesting exchange.
Not specific enough, Gerald.
Farmer you asked me to substantiate my claim that you are an anti-Semite.
I have explained why I consider you to be an anti-Semite.
Whether you agree or disagree that the intent and content of your posts have breached the IHRA Working Definition, is a matter of your opinion.
I have explained why I reached the conclusion that your posts are anti-Semitic, I have informed you of the Definition I accept to define anti-Semitism. That is sufficient.
Sufficient for Gerald to generalise.
Which of the could be/may be creations do you have in mind, Gerald?
Don’t you mean I could be/may be antisemitic?
Farmer are you denying that the intent and content of many of your posts have breached the IHRA Working Definition of anti-Semitism?
Yes, or No Farmer.
The IHRA def.
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
Yep, Gerald. I deny that I have breached it.
Not surprisingly Farmer you left out a lot.
“◾Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
◾Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
◾Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
◾Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
◾Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
◾Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”
Yes Farmer I am stating that YOU have breached ALL of the above.
All anyone has to do, and that includes you, if they need confirmation is to look through all your posts. If they do, your breaches of the above are there for all to see. Unless they are blind or stupid.
No. Those you have mentioned are not classed as being añtisemitic(would be hilarious if they were).
They are classed as ‘may be’.
Israel has recently introduced its racist Nation Law to bestow on its Jewish citizens an additional right. Bibi has also stated that non-Jewish citizens are not a part of the state of Israel. i.e. Israel IS a racist endeavour.
No Farmer You LIE!
The wording is not ‘may be’ but ‘may serve as illustrations’.
The full wording is “To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations:”
Either you have read it and are too illiterate to understand it, or you LIED deliberately.
Gerald, if they MAY serve as an illustration, then they also MAY NOT.
I don’t know which is the more flawed.
Your failed attempts at logic, or your failed attempts to write cogently in the English language.
Taking no lessons in logic from an Israelist, Gerald.
I am correct.
Farmer I would not attempt to give you lessons in logic, or in English language comprehension.
To give you Farmer such lessons would be as fruitful as trying to teach a shrimp to whistle.
For the same reason, it would be trying to teach the shrimp and you something you are both incapable of.
Quite right that you refrain from giving lessons in logic, Gerald.
The obsession with Israel, Zionism and Jews stems from something deeper than mere interest and a supposed compassion for Palestinians
If they cared for Palestinians, they would have helped ensure that a state existed for them
From all my encounters with these so-called lliberals, all they are interested in is Israel and its purported wrong doings (many times based on hearsay, rumours and conspiracy theories)
Quite sad, and extremely worrying really
If Israel cared for Palestinians, they would have helped ensure that a state existed for them
Not when the Philistines’ dream is to destroy Israel, you twit!
… and the Zionists’ dream is to inhabit the whole of thd region and preevent a Palastinian state ..? Just as vile.
NOBODY wants a “Pal-e-STINIAN” state. Not even fellow Arabs/Muslims.
Would you allow a “state” for people who don’t really want a state but want every Jew in Israel to pack a suitcase and move out of Israel. Because that’s truly what the fakestinian Arabs in Gaza, Judea and Samaria want–from the river to the sea.
Spokeswoman for the Palestinians?
David tweets -“Another day at the conference. The Labour obsession with ‘Palestine’ is beyond parody. But the hostility and hate against Jewish people that this obsession generates?”
There has been no hostility against Jewish people.
Try to tell the TRUTH …. which matters.
“There has been no hostility against Jewish people.”
Farmer unless you are a) at the Conference, and more importantly b) omnipresent.
You cannot state that with any certainty.
Another one of your lies, that you ‘believe’ because it fits in with your own warped and twisted anti-Semitic version of reality.
I wanted to clarify something here for anyone who is interested (or myself if no one who posts here IS interested): I don’t hate Muck Framer on a personal level, since we never have met (and never will meet) and he could be the nicest gentleman in the real world for all that is possible know. I dislike him because he comes here with 100% unanimous bad faith in the belief that the runner of this blog and the 99% of commenters who share his factual stance (myself included) is/are at all times A) an idiot, B) a liar, C) a coward and most of all D) unwilling to bend to a total agreement of Muck Framer’s worldview. Since David is not A-B-C at all–and IS in the D category for valid reasons–then we’re left with Muck as an asshole troll who doesn’t contribute anything useful or positive to this site’s raison d’etre. That’s why I can’t stand Muck and will make sure to let that feeling be known until the blessed day when he packs up his tent and takes his circus somewhere else. Kisses.
Poor Ben … have a lie down now.
Nothing poor about it, troll. Appreciate the “concern” for my well being, but for legion reasons you’re not someone I’m going to take life advice from. I stand by everything I wrote about you. All of it.
Why David’s recent attack on Amnesty?
Perhaps this …. Amnesty urges UN member states to demand release of database listing companies operating in the illegal settlements.’
How many Arabs did Jewish miltia forcibly remove from their villages and land, how many villlages did the Jewish miltiia raze to the ground if not 700,000 as you have read, David?
Howmany were driven from their villages by Jewish militia if not 700,000?
800,000 Arab Jews driven from their homes synagogues and businesses in Iraq, Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Yemen, Afghanistan, Fascist Iran by Arab/Islamofascist militias.
And TODAY Arabs terrorize fellow Arabs/Muslims – resulting in 500,000+ dead in Syria – preceded by 1,000,000 dead Arabs/Muslims in the 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war where POISON GAS was used.
And 9/11, London’s 7/7, Easter Sunday massacre in Sri Lanka, ISIS videos of Islamofascists beheading captives, Charlie Hebdo magazine office massacre, Pan Am 103 bombing, beheading of Lee Rigby and journalist Daniel Pearl, failed assassination of Pope John Paul II by a Turk, assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy by a “Pal-e-STINIAN”, ….
…. and Hitler was an Arab? … or like you, an hater?
SHlTlerand his Arab ally – the Grand Moooofti.
The greatest Haters are Arabs/Muslims because they hate Arabs/Muslims too.
David tweets – Radical Islamist terror groups #Hamas, #Hezbollah and #IslamicJihad are military wings of the Boycott Israel movement #BDS.
David is a bad-mouthing trickster.
We are all waiting for the DFID to release the documents on the way they say the money was spent.
DFID use the excuse that the money trail was audited, but the auditors refute that
Lawyers for Israel (LFI) made a request for these papers, but DFID declined.
LFI then went to the Information Commisioner, who ordered the papers released as it was in the public interest.
DFID appealed that decision, and to the best of my knowledge very recently dropped part, or all of its appeal.
So at this present stage we are awaiting an appraisal of those papers that have/will be released to LFI
In the meanwhile the Palestinian Authority (PA) pays people who have murdered Jews a payment (salary, wellfare payment whatever) while they are unable to pay the full salaries of their employees
Hopefully the evidence to back the claim that monies given to the PA are used to finance terror against Jews wil be conclusively proven
Again I repeat; money is fungible and any monies given to an entity frees up other monies to be used for other purposes which may be at odds with the reason for the origal donated monies
Richard, when the documents and the complete audit trails are released I shall read them.
“Again I repeat; money is fungible and any monies given to an entity frees up other monies to be used for other purposes which may be at odds with the reason for the origal donated monies”
Yes, Richard I have read and heard that many times before. Although ten years or more ago it was usually the claim that aid money was used by corrupt African dictators to buy, private jets and luxury yachts.
There are many good books by Paul Collier, and Dambisa Moyo that cover the problems with the use and abuse of aid.
Another David tweet – What the @UKLabour Party Conference has shown us is that some local councils are happy to accommodate racists & Jew haters. Giving them council property to use & treating their Jewish residents as unwanted party-poopers. Well done @BrightonHoveCC – you are an absolute disgrace.
Another cryptic neurotic outburst?
Suggest a bib, to catch that dripping hate.
I had a very interesting conversation with a Palestinian woman a while ago in which we both agreed on the negative effects aid has had on the Palestinians
She had held positions of some seniority in international financial institutions and the PA according to her bio
As far as she was concerned, only strictly monitored humanitarian aid should be allowed in
It was an extremely interesting conversation in which we were joined by someone from what I always assumed to be Hamas. He also agreed with us about the aid
Was this convo down at the Dog and Duck Richard ?
… after 10 pints no doubt.
So the main UK political parties share a policy of sending aid to the Arabs and the Arabs confirm that they will continue to pay the murderers of Jews
The response from contributors here; questioning payroll disparities and picking at the procedural propriety of individual UK politicians. No thoughts whatsoever on a policy that funds Arab terror and encourages the murder of Jews. Shameful.
Ynet news …… Next you doubtless will be linking us to The Dandy and The Beano
Look on it as aid aimed at helping poor Arabs who have had any chance of self-sufficiency stymied by Israel and the US having a portion of it diverted, while many times more (over $3.5 billion EVERY YEAR) is aimed at ensuring Israel’s military can kill many, many more Arabs and expand into Arab populated areas OUTSIDE of Israel.
But not as shameful as an alcohol-sodden Golf Club bore blathering on ad nauseam, then bursting into tears and accusing anyone who questions him as being in league with the ‘bullies’ in the bar.
Ian did THAT?
Bet Ben Gurion came in after 9 pints and also chatted with him.
And speaking of three pointless humans let’s think about Samer Mina Salim Arbid, Kassem a-Karim Ragah Shabli and Yazen Hassin Hassni Mjames; the Arab terrorists arrested for the murder of 17 year old Rina Shnerb in August near the Israeli village of Dolev.
These murderers will each receive 4000 NIS per month from the Arab leadership as a reward for killing Jews. Hospitals and care facilities will not be built as aid funds from the UK will continue to be diverted to pay the salaries of terrorists.
The US knows this and has acted to cease huge chunks of its aid funding following Taylor Force. Did the main UK political parties miss the memo, or do they simply not care? As I said, shameful.
Ian you have pretty much the same disability as Scoffie. You go through life labouring under the assumption that you saying something makes it so. Geralds disability is a little different. He thinks WIki saying something makes it so.
Stephen I rarely use Wiki and on the occasions I do it as a signpost to verifiable sources.
But if it helps your bruised narcissistic ego to believe that I am only repeating what I read on Wiki, then carrying on doing so.
You have my sympathies, particularly after Japan humiliating Ireland at Rugby yesterday.
To save you asking, or looking it up on Wiki, Wales Beat Australia this morning.
Yeah I watched it. In the light of your current interests I will treat you to my favourite Irish joke.
Paddy and Mick were working on a north Dublin building site when it started to pour with rain
Paddy………..well its too wet to work outside today what shall we do.
Mick………..lets go to the cinema
Paddy……….good idea whats on ?
Paddy………eewww no I don’t like sex movies
Mick…………its not about sex you eejit its about whales
Paddy……….well I can’t stand the fucking Welsh either
Thank you Stephen you are most kind.
And I for one could not give a flying fuck what ” the main UK political parties ” care about or which memos they do or do not get
And you make weird and wonderful comments, and when challenged obfuscate and change the subject to avoid having to answer the stupid comments you make
Collier tweet – This time @jeremycorbyn hides behind a Jewish person who said prayers for dead Hamas terrorists.
The Jewish person said prayers for those butchered by the Israeli firing-squads at the fence …. on Gazan land. Most were claimed to be “Hamas operatives”.
David spins that as ‘terrorists’.
Apparently it’s evil to pray to your God for those you disagree with.
And speaking of saying prayers for Hamas terrorists let’s not forget mass murderer Ibrahim Hamed, who is serving 54 life sentences for planning several terror attacks in which 54 Jewish people were murdered. His monthly salary has been raised to 7000 NIS (£1,666 on the current exchange rate) He isn’t troubling the Jewdas Kaddish crew yet but his payments should trouble anyone in the UK that votes and pays tax. Their money is encouraging Arab terrorists to kill Jews rather than funding affordable housing, opening hospital wards and subsidising school meals. Grotesque.
“rather than funding affordable housing, opening hospital wards and subsidising school meals. “??!?
Israel demolishes houses, raids hospitals and bombs schools, Ian. Destroys airports and power stations. Do keep up. Even murders on ships in International waters.
Not so much in the UK where UK tax revenues could be used to support UK citizens rather than Arab murderers.
Mind you from what I’ve seen of your screwed up system and the regular attacks on UK police and servicemen by Arabs on UK streets you guys like to support terror at home and abroad.
“regular attacks on UK police and servicemen by Arabs on UK streets”
Not only is that a sweeping generalisation, it is without any shadow of a doubt a vile racist ‘comment’.
If some repugnant racist retard had written and claimed there were, “regular attacks on UK police and servicemen by Black people, or Jewish people, on UK streets” they would quite rightly be condemned and banned.
It is not acceptable to make sweeping statements and racist comments about Arabs either.
No ifs, no buts, anti-Semitism, racism, and Xenophobia are ALWAYS wrong. They should never be tolerated.
No surprise there.
You’d think with these blogs that antisemitism is a special thing, the only racism to care about, the foulest ‘crime’.
David blogged a short while ago an opus along the lines of ‘where there’s a knife there’s an Arab’ or v.v.
David is for TRUTH, David fights Racism. Hilarious.
Antisemitism is racism, no special case….. and the LP accusations currently being trumpeted the modern ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’.
And speaking of toleration let’s think about the role of the EU in supporting the so called ‘pay to slay’ policy of the Arabs. Their aid funding is no more than bridging finance to enable a bankrupt regime to prioritize killing Jews over caring for their own.
That everyone here is fine with this is quite shocking.
“the so called ‘pay to slay’ policy of the Arabs”
Another generalisation that is clearly racist, as well as being stupid.
If it was right to ban Farmer, for a limited period, then it must be right to ban Kay for his racist remarks against Arabs.
“The EU again in June donated 15 million Euro to the Palestinian Authority (PA). As Palestinian Media Watch has exposed, this is the second such donation.
The announcement of the donation, exposes both the EU’s open bias against Israel and its immoral support of the PA’s “Pay for Slay” policy.”
Do you really get your opinions from two hacks working for a Zionist propaganda rag?
Read the level of their output above. Pathetic.
p.s.Farmer was banned for ‘exposing’ that David’s tree-planting for heroes ruse was in fact touting for trees in Jewish areas.
All houses are affordable fuck wit
Nothing racist about the pay to slay statement.
Whenever Jews in Israel are murdered by Arab terrorists, there are groups of Arabs in the Palestinian areas who celebrate by letting off firecrackers and handing out sweets and candies.
There have been many videos of these celebrations, and the Palestinian leadership has never been reticent in making their positive feelings apparent when discussing the perpetrators of these killings of Jews (in Arabic; not English. See MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch archives for evidence of this)
To create the state of Israel Arabs were killed by Jewish terrorists.
Israel installed two of these killers as PM.
Jews are no holier, no more evil than any other race.
I am sure that you are intelligent enough to see there is a difference between referring to ” Arab terrorists”, “groups of Arabs in the Palestinian areas ” and the bald generalisation “Arabs” that Kay uses several times.
It is that, I am calling out as a racist generalisation,
Using such racist generalisations, only gives ammunition to those who brand Zionism and Israel as racist endeavours.
And speaking of bald generalisations let’s come back to Taylor Force here.
The US realised its taxpayer funded aid was being used by the Arabs to reward the murder of US citizens and shut it down. The UK and EU seem as disinterested as the contributors here and both deflect rather than address the issue of Arabs murdering Jews for payment from public funds. Truly shocking.
That’s Ian’s analysis of why a subset of Arabs attack a subset of pro-Israelis is it?
Nothing to do with occupation, abuse and destruction of Pslestinian identity.
It’s for money.
Wonder if this slight could be considered a trope?
Wonder what the US taxpayer funded $3.5 billion of military aid per year that Israel receives is being used for.
Humanitarian aid for poverty stricken holocaust survivors … or to fund the shooting dead of Arabs on their side of the fence?
And speaking of survivors, or lack of them, lets think about Majdi Za’atri. the Arab who murdered 23 Jews in a suicide bombing whilst they were traveling on a bus in Jerusalem’s Beit Yisroel neighborhood. Those murdered included 7 children. There were no survivors. To June this year he has been paid 706,800 shekels ($188,996) by the Arab leadership from funds diverted from UK and EU aid.
Of course everyone seems much keener to deflect away from this somewhat inconvenient topic. Ironic really that we hear so much bleating about austerity in the UK and who is to blame. However when the opportunity is presented to consider how these aid funds from the Tories ( almost certain to be sustained by the Marxists if they ever get in) may be better directed to the NHS rather than to promotion of Arabs killing Jews, complete silence.
Wonder how much of the over $3,500,000,000 annual military aid that the US lavishes on Israel was used to kill over 500 children during the last attrition on the Gazan enclave, Ian?
No doubt Trump will put a stop to that too.( if his action was not because of Arab hatred)
Israel is also a kept country.
p.s. you seem to be the new Edward…. mmm.
And speaking of the suffering of Arab children due to Arabs paying other Arabs to kill Jews, let’s return to this from Al Hayat Al Jadida;-
The only response to this has been deflection, a few puny insults and an admission of complete intransigence. If anyone actually cared about Arabs there would be an outcry about this and outrage at how UK aid funding supported by Tories and Marxists pays to slay. Instead, total silence. Truly grotesque.
why should we care about Arabs Ian. They dont need us, they have got you.
If anyone actually cared about Arabs the world would have reigned in Israel’s racist and expansionist policies.
Israel behaves as a rabid loose dog.
Farmer I am in a generous mood.
So let me give you a free English lesson.
Reign, is to rule as a Monarch.
To rein in, is to restrain.
I’ll waive my usual fee, on this occasion.
Your a star. 😉
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