24 thoughts on “Israel. The two-stage solution”

1. Ha ha funny David. It is not you who decides who is Palestinian. Well, who is Israeli then ? More than 80% of Israelis hold their original second passports.
   Israel stinks with racism. They are looking for Jewish purity they disregard non Jews. This is not a country based on legal rights for all. One day demography will kick them out because they failed to make friends or peace in the area. One day they will be history. I do not think two state solution is a solution. just as much as I do not believe that there should be a racist fundamentalist country called Israel. I do not care about the names whether Israel or Palestine but I care that all should be living equal and in harmony. Your article does not support this but feeds into hearted and Israeli nationalist ideas. I do not know David when are going to feel for all people whether Jews or otherwise as equal?

   1. For goodness sake!! The issue is not who is Palestinian, but, rather, who is a refugee? Sorting this out is central to author’s thesis. Everything else you wrote is therefore irrelevant, “doctor”…..

   2. I think your post highlights one of the major problems with discourse on the topic. You didn’t read the post, you read what you wanted to. I said nothing of the Arabs living inside Gaza and the West Bank except to say they had terrible leadership and were used, by the regional arab leaders, who created for the most part, the tragedy that unfolded. As for the refugees. Like the people in Calais, they should have been dealt with at the time by the host nations. Yet once again these people were let down, forged into a weapon, and abused… The humanitarian cause is to pressure Lebanon to give the rights to the people born within its borders. Odd you don’t seem to consider this important.

      1. Thanks David
         I agree with your comments
         I was talking about right of return of Palestinians as I felt you are aspiring people to accept the crime of displacing people and has to accept it and that’s it. The crime does not vanish by time. Justice says that those people have to chose for themselves whether they would like to rejoin their families and return to their home land or stay in the other parts of the world.

         I wonder if you do not mind me commenting on your articles if so.I promise I wont but I felt this might narrow the gap between Palestinians and Israelis. When somebody want to make peace then has to make it with people who they consider enemies, you cannot make peace with friends?

         I noticed somebody is not happy I have put Dr in front of my name, eventhough I worked hard for this I do not mind removing that.

         Thank you for your reply
         Hussam

         1. Hussam

            I never have a problem with anyone commenting on the articles and debate is always welcome.

            I disagree with your comment on the ‘right of return’. Does my wifes family have a right of return to Egypt, to reclaim all that was confiscated from them in 1956?

            There is a difference between a political point and a humanitarian point. Suggesting that some children born in Lebanon should not have full citzenship because you are politically interested in applying pressure on a third party is a gross violation of humanitarian principles. That you still insist on doing this after 70 years of failure and with no end game in sight, simply makes the entire position sickening.

            As these descendants of the refugees outside of the conflict zone are embedded within the economies of wherever they may be, those nations refusing to give them full rights need to be pressured into doing so. This will just leave the Israelis and the Arabs who are still residing in the British mandate land. Any Arab residing in this land cannot really be a refugee anyway – he is living in his ‘homeland’ (this is why the definition needs to be changed, it has created absurdities intended to prolong the conflict).

            That these people are proving to be one of the major sticking points behind a failure to arrive at any agreement between those actually living in the conflict zone, it is only sensible to remove them from the equation FIRST.

            Then we can get down to what is real and what is not, without ‘one state’ radical pressure being applied from the outside.

            I wish no harm to anyone and only seek to find innovative ways of moving forward. If after a final settlement, if there is a state of Palestine and if they choose to offer citizenship to ex-refugees, and the ex-refugees want to go there, well then, what is the harm in that.

            1. David
               I do not think this is going to work. You have decided to prevent the right of return for those displaced and forced to leave their land and country behind. I am sorry for your wife but still we should not compare this to Israel. Not because another country has done wrong that Israel has to do the same. And not because some Arab governments killed more Palestinians that Israel can justify the same.

               discussion about refugees should start once peace talks finished many of its parts (if it will ever start). then those outside should be given the freedom of what will happen to them with free choice.

               I still do agree with you about all refugees whether Palestinians or others should be treated in the countries concerned with dignity and freedom according to international Law. No body can force countries to accept refugees as their own and give them nationality but at least give the all rights necessary to live their lives and work.

               I am not quite sure if you are really concerned about those refugees or otherwise for the sake of Israel demographic structure?

               I am not looking hopeful that a solution is going to work meanwhile. With all divided.

               There is only one solution that will finish the whole conflict (I suppose) which is the declaration of Israel leaders that Israel has changed to a Secular democratic country for all inhabitants. Then I believe all will start building the country and live happily. This is currently not an option for the Zionists who did all to build a Jewish state. Therefore struggle will continue and hopefully one day situation will change to the best for all rather than for one section in this country.

               The whole area is unstable and getting much worse than ever before (the Middle east) and I can not even see if a peace will be done or the equation will all change again.

               thanks
               Hussam

         2. The issue with “Doctor” b4 your name was that in using such a title, one expected to read reasoned, constructive comment or even informed debate. The following are not conducive to informed debate:
            “Israel stinks with racism. ”
            “One day they will be history.”
            “I do not believe that there should be a…..country called Israel.”
            “…looking for Jewish purity they disregard non Jews. ”

            Apart from the fact that not ONE of your statements is demonstrably accurate I am being polite here), I think u get my drift.
            Alan Meyer

            1. Dear Alan
               you have responded twice and it will be so ignorant from my side not to respect this and reply.
               thank you for your care to reply and clarify your position.
               My Comments were not meant to disturb anybody. I felt there is freedom to write and express my views and what I have formulated opinion wise on this matter. Yes I meant what I said and there are reasons and it is good sometimes to listen to the other side and see if there is something that needs to be changed. But I feel you are not prepared to hear any voice against Israel even if reasoned.

               I mentioned Israel stinks with racism and that is true. (Israel means all its borders currently including 1967 lands). I will give you examples but these are mere examples rather than the day to day life of such racism.
               Recently British diplomats were involved in trying to convince Israeli authorities to stop displacing its own Arab Bedwin communities and confiscating their lands. This is in the 1948 lands. If you are Arab you will be treated with inferiority in many aspects. another example do you know that there are streets for the Jews only and others parallel for other people. I do not like to go into more details as I will not finish.

               I have mentioned that one day they will be history. That is true. not because whether I wish or not. This is because Racism will end up into self destruction. sometimes countries take decisions that are not appropriate and then this will learn to disasters.

               Do you know that black Jews are treated with racism from white Jews.

               It is very easy to formulate all these reasoned sentences without difficulty.

               Yes again I do not believe that any country should be religious, I believe that countries should be secular for all to help and build this country. all live together will equality and respect.

               Yes Israel is looking for Jewish purity and this is a copy from their political eaders and until today if you are a Jew you can immigrate to Israel and given housing and money and all facilities inspite of the fact that other people displaced but not Jews are not allowed back.

               You did not mention that I said that Israel is a fundamentalist country and that is unfortunately true. As you are aware Zionists believe that God has gifted this land to them and then once there is a belief like this then this justifies killing and displacing people and make other suffer to fulfill that fantasy belief that God has gifted this land. Eventhough I can respond to this concept as well, but I will stop here.
               Fundamentalism does not belong to a religion but belongs to people who lives their beliefs and hurt other people and make them suffer

               When Libya was occupied by Italy, they were told that Rome was there and it is their country.

               Poor Palestinians, all countries been there, you name it they lived in Palestine, Romans, Greeks, Turks, Ismalic Rulers, French Napoleon etc. So any will claim this land as theirs.

               Israel on some occasions did not behave as a country. It behaved as Mafia assassinating people rather than bringing them to justice like all proper countries do.

               I believe that Jews Suffered badly from Europe and they deserve good status after all. Unfortunately their leaders did not chose the right decision to move to Israel/Palestine. I will always pray for them.

               I wish Israel will change. I wish they will be friends with all people. I wish that one day they will DO to earn peace and be loved by all of us.

               The weather outside so nice today and I think I have to go out. I hope I managed to give you some concepts from the other side of the World. I believe this will definitely bridge the gaps if not taken heavy hearted!

               Best wishes
               Hussam

         3. Hi Hussam,
            I have a little time now to respond to your reply to me, for which many thanks.

            Firstly, I’d say u are wrong in ascribing cessation of hostilities in 1967 as “borders”. They never were legally. They are not now.

            U r in error re international law where land is taken in a defensive action. nasser close the Starits to Israeli shipping in May. No juror would disagree that, in international parlance, this is a declaration of war.

            Keeping a hostile population under control is NOT racism, nor is it applicable to Israel which has male and female Arab Muslim judges jurors and policemen men and women…

            The population is hostile as a consequence of refusing 14 peace offers and three stunning offers of statehood. In 68 years, there has never been even ONE offer of peace from what u term “Palestinians”.

            With regards to the Bedouin and what u term their “1948 lands”, the Northern Negev was LEGALLY Israeli territory approved by LoN in principle and the UN in practise. As such, the Bedouin are today subject to Israeli civil law like anybody else.
            As for Arabs being treated w”…with inferiority…’ per ur claim, NO Arab Israeli is discriminated against. Arabs from the West Bank are subjected to inspections in order to ensure the safety of the Jewish population which it abuses as sons of monkey and pigs and with whom they refuse to make peace.

            There has NEVER been a “Palestinian” people, nation, country, state, culture or language in history, ever. From 48-67, it was all about Nasser’s pan-Arabism. After ’67, Arafat took advice from Vietcong spin doctors (true) and reframed the arab antisemitism and murders as a struggle for “national freedom/independence” when it fact it was the same old Arab-Israeli war by another name!!

            Regarding Arafat’s re-framing of his aim of a Judenrein Middle East as a “national struggle”, u would be unable to explain why there was no “Palestine” created between 1948 and 1967 when Arabs themselves RULED both Gaza AND the West Bank including East Jerusalem……

            Jews, you maintain, will one day be history. As we approach 5776, I am confident that Jews and the State of Israel wish you and Muslims the world, over a further 1,400 years of existence.

            U also maintain that you “…do not believe that any country should be religious…” Of course, u gloss over existence and vagaries of the various Islamic Republics thruout the world and the historicals fact that nationhood arose out of shared culture and religion. You would destroy the entire world and re-make it in your own image???

            Re. ur point abt Israel being a fundamentalist state with all that connotes: I would guess that u have never been there and that u r merely influenced by the tales of those others in much the same vein s Herodotus wrote about his “travels” in Egypt and about the “palestinian people” who lived in the coastal strip….!! As u know, the man had never travelled to either place as was just relaying information from other travellers…….And of course, the Tel Aviv LGBT festival is an international event which draws 10s of thousands of like minded visitors of every race color and creed to its city boundaries every year. Trying doing that in Teheran, Qatar, Islamabad, Kabul or Jakarta which I assume u will say are not fundamentalist islamist state capitals…..

            Finally, I am pleased u hold Israel in good esteem overall and will even pray for the country. Every little helps! 🙂 However, Israel is a legally created entity in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq were created. If those entities are entitled to live in peace within secure and defensible borders as Islamic Republics (not Lebanon…), then so is the State of Israel created at approx the same time.

            About this there can never be any discussion or de-legitimisation.

            I wish u well. personally.

            However, I could never support the herd mentality and bloodlust of many Muslims and Europeans in their call for the delegitimisation of the Jewish State. yes, it is a matter of education for the vast majority of people who sound off on social media about the issue know very few facts of value/relevance or legal integrity.

            The State of Israel is a legally created entity created at the same time as a paralle state for the Arab residents of British Mandated Palestine.

            That those Arabs were exploited by Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon for their own worldly territorial and ideological greeds, is , ultimately, an issue that Arab Muslims themselves need to deal with.

            It has never had anything to do with creation of the Jewish State.

            Keep well.
            Alan Meyer

   3. In “The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument” the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer explains that even when one’s argument is weak, it is possible to win the argument by putting one’s opponent into some “odious” category.

      Well done!

   4. You are totally misgiuded Dr Hussam: The Jews are the indigenous people of the Holy Land…. The Covenant was made by God between Himsekf and the Jewish People for eternity. Successive Moslem and Christian conquerors made sure the Hebrew/Jewish people remained conquered and weak for about 1865 years since the unfortunately unsuccessful Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba in 135. This revolt was to regain control of the Jewish land, the kingdom of Judea which was conquered by the Romans. My maths tells me this is nearly 500 years befor the Moslem religion was started. In this period and thereafter the Jewish people were subjugated and persecuted well into the 20th century. All Moslem claims to this land are false. They are conquerors. They (and you included) are using all the tricks and terminologies from other historical events and situations of other nations and distorting the facts to vindicate each Moslem attack on Jewish land. How us it possible that Mislems deny the existence of the Temple in Jerusalem and have recreated a narrative to give themselves ownership of a site to which Jewish claims predate? Is there one set of “International Laws for Moslems and none fir the Jews?? The Jews have now, with the protection of God, reclaimed their ancient land; no amount of lies nor false accusations are going to change this. If Allah wanted Arabs to have this land then all the events over the last 100 years would have been different. Unfortuntely there are egotistical and greedy individuals amongst the Mislems and Arabs who are inciting Arabs in the area with hatred and false claims. I am afraid you all don’t listen to Allah; he is telling you all ” NO. This land belongs to the Jews”. That is why you are always losing the battles. Open your eyes and ears!

      1. Actually, the Jewish people only held Canaan for two hundred years… They lost it, Why?

         1. I was given to understand the Palestinians lived in the area centuries before the Jews settled in Canaan? Am I wrong, Sue?

   5. Dr Hussam
      In point of fact it the Arabs themselves who deny the existence of a separate “Palestinian” National Identity. They themselves state that Palestinianism is merely a Potemkin Village propaganda ploy.

      [http://tinyurl.com/Arabs-No-Palestinians] – Collected statements. (Start on the bottom of page 148) Auni Bey Abdul Hadi testifying to the Peel Commission in 1937 running through Yassir Arafat in a 1970 interview with Italian journalist Arianna Palazzi.

      It does not get any clearer than this – [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen] – “The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity.”

      This is from an interview on Egyptian TV in 2021 – [http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3389.htm (Time Index 1:34)] – Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad (Al-Hekma TV (Egypt) – March 23, 2012: “Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis”

      [http://sarahhonig.com/2015/06/18/another-tack-mahmoud-abbass-careless-candor/] Abbas: “the relationship between Jordan and Palestine is the relationship of one nation living in two states.”

      Even Haj Amin al-Husseini (the Patriarch of Palestinianism) stated as head of the Supreme Arab Committee testifying to the UN in 1947:
      “An additional consideration of great importance for the Arab world is racial uniformity. The Arabs lived in a broad expanse stretching from the Mediterranean Sea to the Indian Ocean. They spoke one language, and shared a common history, tradition and aspirations. Their unity was the solid foundation for peace in one of the most central and sensitive regions in the world. For that reason, it does not make sense that the United Nations should facilitate the establishment of a foreign entity within that well-rooted unity.”

      the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.” In fact, Palestine is never explicitly mentioned in the Koran, rather it is called “the holy land” (al-Arad al-Muqaddash).

      Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

      “We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.”

      We also see this in the founding documents of Palestinianism. Article 1 of The Palestinian National Charter states: ” . . . the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.”
      [http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp]

2. There’s nothing I can really comment on here, Dave. It’s essentially what i might have put if I wrote this article. On a parallel line, it may well be time for Israel to annex the West Bank and have done with it. Israel should not permit its well being to be determined by what others (I’m looking at the UN and EU here….) might think of her. Of course there are myriad other considerations, including the not insignificant economic blackmail, but, after 68 years, it is time.

3. Israel a racist fundamentalist country?
   What planet are you on?
   That term applies to EVERY Islamic country on this planet.
   Let’s get one thing straight, there never was and never will be a state called Palestine.
   It is a name was given to the region by the British Mandate pre 1948.
   It was the land of Canaan and that was given by Gd to the Children of Israel escaping 400 years of slavery at the hands of the Egyptians.
   I believe that a two state solution will not work.
   This is because the Islamic culture cannot be trusted to live in peace.
   it is in their nature to not only push Israel into the sea but to kill all Jews.
   Islam behaves like the Fourth Reich with its followers the new Nazis.
   Israel should have its biblical borders which extend into what is Saudi Arabia today.
   One of the most cultured and intelligent Arab leaders was the late HRH King Hussein of Jordan and his regime killed more “palestinians” in its time then the Israelis have been accused of killing to date.

   1. Actually, the Jewish people only held Canaan for two hundred years… They lost it, Why?

      They only held Canaan for 200 years though…

4. Another fascinating article David. I agree the Arab World has used the Palestinian Arabs as Pawns and UNWRA has become part of the problem not the solution .It is morally repugnant that so called “Hamas “leaders live in opulence in other countries with bank accounts of Billions of dollars while those they claim to represent live often in conditions perpetuated by these very same people. You pose the question How do you make peace with people, who by and large, refuse to accept the presence of Israel? The Doctor who says “One day they will be history”. and “Israel stinks with racism” is evidence of those who do not believe in the Jewish people having a right of self-determination. Whilst people hold these views peace will remain a dream for those who want to see lasting peace and security for all

5. The analogy between Palestinianism and addiction pathology is quite apt. Addiction invariably involves three actors; The Pusher, The Addict and the Enabler/Co-Dependent.

   Pushers ensnare their Addict victims for personal aggrandizement and money. The kleptocratic autocratic Palestinianist leadership are a textbook example. From the efendi Haj Amin al-Husseini, through Arafat, Abbas, Meshaal, Haniyeh, Nasrallah. . .their obscene personal wealth and perquisites, accumulated while those they claim to represent, languish in poverty under their thuggish jack boot speaks for itself.

   The Addicts salve their disappointments, failures and lack of prospects by blaming these conditions on an extrinsic source. The temporary intoxication they obtain by violently acting out, against those, they have convinced themselves, are their tormentors, in “martyrdom operations” and pointless Pyrrhic “victories” distract them from the misrule of the Pushers; and allow them to avoid the difficult self-examination necessary to change their choices and hence their life’s (and their people’s lives) trajectory. Left unattended, their real problems (the stifling corruption of their leadership, unattended and collapsing infrastructure, the lack of robust civic institutions {a free press, the rule of law, democratic governance), self-defeating hate indoctrination in lieu of education, bloody internecine conflict, ordinary crime. . .} left unaddressed these fester and grow ever worse; making their lives unliveable. It requires ever increasing does of the intoxicant, for ever less effect to silence the voices in their heads; that remind them of their disappointments,d failures; and lack of a viable future.

   The scientific literature on addiction describes the denial mechanisms Addicts employ [http://www.peggyferguson.com/userfiles/10846/file/NewPDFSw_CartButtons/AddictionWorksheets/Defense%20Mechanism%20In%20Alcoholism.pdf] Projection, Rationalization, Denial, Blaming, Avoidance, Deflection, Manipulation, Hostility, Lying. . . . these are the sum of Palestinianist discourse.

   These mechanisms are shared by the Enabler/Co-Dependents; such as Dr. Hassan above.

   “More than 80% of Israelis hold their original second passports.[Lying – 72% of Israeli Jews are sabras and ineligible to hold a foreign passport. Russian immigrants forfeited their Russian citizenship (no Russian passports) as did those who were expelled from Arab/Muslim countries]
   Israel stinks with racism. [This ad hominem slur is is an example of Avoidance and Lying] They are looking for Jewish purity they disregard non Jews. [More of the same] This is not a country based on legal rights for all. [Lying – 20% of Israeli citizens are not Jewish yet they enjoy full citizenship rights and can be found in all segments of Israeli life {http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/p/eoz-posters-for-apartheid-week.html#.U-UtgfldUtF} One day demography will kick them out because ‘they failed to make friends or peace in the area.’ [This is Projection and Blaming {http://www.mythsandfacts.org/Conflict/6/rejectionism.htm} and {http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1691} This also ignores 1400 years of Muslim pogroms against Jews {https://www.facebook.com/notes/david-arthur-levy/muslim-pogroms-against-jews-prior-to-zionism/10152225862404115/} David Collier explored this history in some detail as well {https://david-collier.com/?p=1151}] One day they will be history. [Rationalization and Denial] I do not think two state solution is a solution. just as much as I do not believe that there should be a racist fundamentalist country called Israel. [ad hominem Lying] I do not care about the names whether Israel or Palestine but I care that all should be living equal and in harmony. [Glitering Generality – The implication being that David does not believe in Truth Justice and Apple Pie – So it is a form of ad hominem/Lying/Deflection/Avoidance] Your article does not support this but feeds into hearted and Israeli nationalist ideas. [Denying Jews the same right of self-determination, the Arabs claim for themselves, is a form of Projection] I do not know David when are going to feel for all people whether Jews or otherwise as equal? [Projection – All Israeli citizens live under the rule of law; equal for all. It is the divinely sanctioned Muslim apartheid of Dhimmitude {http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/by_lecture_10oct2002.html} that is an exemplar of inequality. This last is couched as an “Appeal to Pathos” which is a form of Manipulation.]

   No doubt, if Dr. Hassan chooses to reply, he will fall back on such non-seqjuitur arguments as – “The citizens of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas must be allowed to vote in Mexico’s elections; and enjoy all the other rights and privileges of Mexican citizenship (as well as US citizenship.)” He will make spurious and fraudulent claims of violations of “International Law”. He will invoke the Bandwagon Fallacy and every other trick in the propagandist’s handbook. He’s already deployed the Ad Hominem, Glittering Generalities, and the Appeal to Pathos. Testimonials, Transfer and Cherry Picking will not be far behind.

6. Hussam,
   You’re argument rests on the false petitio principii proposition that there exists a “Palestinian” national identity distinct from that of other Arabs.
   Strict constructionist Islamists reject the entire notion of “Nationalisms”. One is either a part of the Ummah (the Dar-al-Islam) or the realm of the Infidels (the Dar-al-Harb.) Well, in theory anyway. Sunni, Shi’a and other Muslims violently disagree as to whom the “real” Muslims are; and have no qualms about shedding copious amounts of takfiri Muslim blood. We are witnessing the latest round of the Sunni/Shi’a Guignol in Iraq and Syria as we speak. With a staggering 11 million Muslims killed by their co-religionists since 1948 [https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims-2/]

   Nationalism becomes an organizing principle in the Middle East only in the aftermath of the collapse of the Ottoman Caliphate; with the establishment of the current collection of Arab/Muslim states. Beginning in that time period Arab leaders have expressly disavowed the existence of a distinct “Palestinian” national identity. Until 1964, when it is concocted as a Potemkin Village propaganda ploy.

   [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen] – “The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity.” Keep in mind that this is from an interview in 1977; fourteen years after the invention of Palestinianism.

   When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
   “We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.”

   The distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.” In fact, Palestine is never explicitly mentioned in the Koran, rather it is called “the holy land” (al-Arad al-Muqaddash).

   Haj Amin al-Husseini (the Patriarch of Palestinianism) stated as head of the Supreme Arab Committee testifying to the UN in 1947:
   “An additional consideration of great importance for the Arab world is racial uniformity. The Arabs lived in a broad expanse stretching from the Mediterranean Sea to the Indian Ocean. They spoke one language, and shared a common history, tradition and aspirations. Their unity was the solid foundation for peace in one of the most central and sensitive regions in the world. For that reason, it does not make sense that the United Nations should facilitate the establishment of a foreign entity within that well-rooted unity.”

   This link will take you to a collection of such statements. (Start on the bottom of page 148) Auni Bey Abdul Hadi testifying to the Peel Commission in 1937 running through Yassir Arafat in a 1970 interview with Italian journalist Arianna Palazzi. [http://tinyurl.com/Arabs-No-Palestinians] (including the Mohsen quotation)

   Or this, from an interview on Egyptian TV in 2021 – [http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3389.htm (Time Index 1:34)] – Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad (Al-Hekma TV (Egypt) – March 23, 2012: “Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis”

   Or this, Abbas: “the relationship between Jordan and Palestine is the relationship of one nation living in two states.” [http://sarahhonig.com/2015/06/18/another-tack-mahmoud-abbass-careless-candor/]

   We also see this in the founding documents of Palestinianism. Article 1 of The Palestinian National Charter states: ” . . . the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.”
   [http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp]

7. Hussam,
   You claim to advocate for “reasoned” debate. Yet your discourse is all unsupported ad hominem assertion resting on cherry picked factoids; and easily debunked falsehoods.
   “Jews only streets” – [http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/06/myth-of-jewish-only-roads.html]
   There are also roads in this area that Jews are prohibited from using [https://www.commentarymagazine.com/culture-civilization/religion/judaism/the-myth-of-jewish-only-roads/]
   Adalah’s “Discriminatory Laws in Israel” database is hokum [http://www.ngo-monitor.org/press-releases/adalah_s_misleading_charges_of_racism/]

   Arabs should be the last to inveigh against “religious discrimination” given their treatment of the Ba’hai [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%ADs], the Yazidi [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Yazidis_by_ISIL], and the Copts [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts]. The Arab Christian communities of Iraq have been extirpated [http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/613149/ISIS-barbarity-100000-Christians-fled-Mosul-one-night]. The Christian Population of Bethlehem dropped from 90% in the 19th century down to 60% in the 1990s. Today Christians make up less than 10%. [http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4692/christians-holy-land]

   Not to mention the divinely sanctioned Muslim Apartheid system of Dhimmitude [http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/by_lecture_10oct2002.html]; expresed todayin demands that non-Muslims pay the Jizya or face death.

8. Thanks for the reply Hussam. I would like to answer u in full and will do so when I am NOT reading this (surreptitiously…) at work. 🙂
   Regards
   Alan

9. David, this is the problem; you may not define the identity of other people. But this is what Israel instrinsically intends to do. Think for a moment that Israel considers its citizens as “districts” (Arab, Circassian, “Christian”, Druze…).
   That is the problem with Zionism, David.
   Your proposal basically consists in dismantelling the Palestinian identity. By emphasizing that Palestinians have “other passports”, you point out that they should assimilate to those countries and be somehow culturally or politically forced to belong forever to their history and have their identity uprooted forever from the history of the land of Palestine.
   Apply your argument to the Jews: they all had “other passports”, why didn’t they assimilate to other countries and nations?
   You say “Tell the British born girl she is British. Tell those with Jordanian citizenship they are Jordanian”. And why not telling Lieberman he is Russian? Or other Jews they are Americans or Europeans? In fact, it’s simple: who are you to tell people what they are? Communities decide who they are alone. You will not decide the history of other people. They will not let you do so.
   It is really relevant to the understanding of things – you should think about it – how to be “a Zionist” implies precisely emphasizing of be “proud” of a Jewish identity as a form of non-assimilation, that is something kept and cultivated through the history apparently “against” what other people would see as the most natural, convenient, functional or rational way of building an identity. This rigid idea of “separation” that is inherited through centuries protects a sense of proudness and self, a self-consciousness and a sense of community, a sense of comon belief, shared ethos and national truth.
   But the very same pride of non-assimilation that is the “national religion” at the root of the Jewish identity, is precisely what you *don’t want Palestinians to have*.
   You want them to assimilate or maybe to build build some other nation-state (maybe similar to the Zionist idea of state) so to build a different identity somewhere else.

   I said that this relveals the problem, because it shows the root ot the confclict. The root of the conflict is that Zionism is an ideology that entails the denial of the Palestinian identity, and vice versa. And there is no way out from this.

   1. you read this all wrong. This isn’t about an argument over identity but of rights. Who are you to work to deny the rights of the Palestinian because you believe that he has another right you want him to have fulfilled? Let us first ensure they all have citizenship. Don’t play games with peoples lives.

      Secondly, being an African American isn’t a denial of identity or rights, it is an expression of them.

      Thirdly, you have history on its head. The Jews in British palestine were murdered because they were Jews, the partition did not come about because of the Jews, partition arose because the Arabs wouldn’t stop killing them. That led to partition in 1936 and eventually 1947.

      Fourthly, thank you for driving home my point. The Palestinian ‘right of return’? When does it end? How is it not just a weak mirror of Zionism? What happens if those that are there, don’t want them to come?

      Finally, don’t play games about Jewish identity, nor compare it to Palestinian. I accept that the people who fled or were expelled from there in 1948 went through conflict and a problem exists, but don’t bring them together as if the people of Gaza, Jerusalem and Nazereth are ‘one’ people different from the people of Amman. Nor forget it was their own leaders who let them down, continually, including rejecting the very partition the Jews accepted. That rejection led to civil war. That civil war was to prove to be a catastrophe for some of the Arabs (not all, some are part of the best and most free society in the area – so they didn’t do too badly out of it).

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