It would be easy to start this blog with Jeremy Corbyn. After all, it seems as if he was part of a rabidly antisemitic Facebook Group, along with Paul Eisen, Gilad Atzmon, numerous other Holocaust Deniers, hard-core antisemites, white supremacists, and all the other wretched political ideologies that gather together to pretend it is about the Palestinians, and not the Jews.
But this has been a long haul, it is 4am, and I haven’t slept properly in weeks. I have been engaged in an exercise to analyse a secret Facebook Group called ‘Palestine Live’. Immersed deeply in an antisemitic soup was disturbing enough, but seeing names there that simply should not ever have stepped foot inside, gave an entirely new, and far darker feel to the entire exercise.
Corbyn was there in late 2014, he may have joined a year earlier, and every indication is, that he stayed in the group until shortly after he became leader of the Labour Party. Jenny Tonge is still a member, David Ward too. Clive Lewis? Go figure. It just shows how blind everyone is to anti-Jewish racism.
I quantified the level of antisemitism within the group, by analysing all those who shared posts over a two week period during February 2018. The level was 64%. When I extracted the Jewish anti-Zionists, the level rose to 73%. Nobody should be able to spend any time at all in that group, without understanding the twisted antisemitism that drives so much of the activity.
Mavi Marmara
The report was so large, I split it into two. The first looks at the founder and admins of the group, it contains Jenny Tonge and David Ward had too. Then there is Greta Berlin, from the ‘Free Gaza Movement‘. She engaged in an argument over Ken O’Keefe, and was clearly upset by the love the group had for him. It was a long exchange, and midway through she said this:
What she seems to be saying here is that Ken O’Keefe attacked the soldiers BEFORE any shots had been fired. This statement entirely negates their original version of events. The exchange supports Israel’s version, that the Israelis were not expecting resistance, they did not know ex-Marine O’Keefe had planned to attack them. O’Keefe was waving a gun around after disarming and capturing the Israelis soldiers, and only then, did the Israelis start to fire. Well worth a read (report part 1).
Jeremy Corbyn
Report part two starts with Corbyn:
Both Sandra Watfa and Elleanne Green have shared hard-core antisemitic material. The Max Blumenthal event, that saw James Thring talk in Westminster. Arranged in Palestine Live. All inside.
There are the anti-Zionist Jews too. All of them. Hanging out with Holocaust Deniers and white supremacists,. Teaching antisemites how to deflect accusations of antisemitism. Jewish Voice for Labour need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.
It is impossible to do it all justice in a blog. You have to read it. From the Mavi to Corbyn, to the sheer horror of what you will see. It’s intense. There are two files to download. 280 pages between them. But the big question, the really big one, is how was it possible to see all this antisemitism, and then go on TV and say it doesn’t exist. That is the question that some people really need to start answering.
AIPL Antisemitism in Palestine Live – Report Part One Download Link
AIPL Antisemitism in Palestine Live – Report Part Two Download Link
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Just started to read it . It gets off to a very bad start. It claims to set the antisemitism bar UNNATURALLY ( My emphasis) high. The meaning of expressions in a natural language cannot be set unnaturally. They are the most natural of things, arrived at by observation of the sum force of the uses of the expressions by the speakers of the language, in the case of English, the 1.5 billion speakers.
The dictionary compilers, having made these observations tell us that “ antisemitism” means hatred of Jews, prejudice against Jews, discrimination against Jews or some combination thereof. The speakers of the language overwhelmingly agree. It doesn’t matter who has “ adopted” some politically motitivated clap trap.
BTW, in passing, it is worth pointing out that the Labour Party has never “ adopted” any part of the batchit IHRA thing.
Anyway I am going to have some breakfast and resume reading. Hopefully, given all the time and effort David has put into this, things will improve.
Now we have a reliance on the likes of the Muslim hating / baiting Harrys Place and the nut job ” Daohne Anson” AKA David wotshisname. It will get better I just know it.
there is no reliance on anything external whatsoever. There are simply additional readings, and original articles where necessary. The research occurs in a completely closed environment. Nice try though
How about a Counter Chant like this?
From the River to the Sea,
paleSTINE Will Never Be!
Dumb Bellamy,
> the Muslim hating / baiting Harrys Place
Harry’s Place doesn’t hate Muslims, you ignorant twat.
It hates people who hijacked 4 passenger planes on 9/11, bombed London transport on 7/7 2005, bombed the Manchester music venue, beheaded Lee Rigby, bombed Pan Am 103, tried to set off a bomb on an inflight passenger plane with a bomb hidden in their sneakers and underwear, massacred the staff at Charlie Hebdo, massacred people at th Bataclan music venue, rammed people on Westminster bridge with a car, ran over people in Nice France during Bastille Day festivities, bombed the Boston Marathon, attacked the 1972 Olympics, massacred people in a gay nightclub in Orlando, hangs gays from construction cranes in Fascist Iran, massacred people in Mumbai, massacred elementary school children in Beslan, bombed 1,000+ year old Budda carvings in Bamiyan Afghanistan, ran over people on a bike path in Manhattan, operate rape gangs in Rotherham, stone girls to death over “family honour” slights, bombed the WTC in 1993, …
Dumb Bellamy, How can you be so pig ignorant?
What? and Harry’s Place and yourself don’t associate these vile atrocities you list with anything to do with Muslims or Islamic doctrine?
Zukorman, What is the common thread among the above listed (tip of the iceberg) atrocities?
0:30 second video
Meet and Greet: Socialist hilter and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVuIht_nzDU
Oh God now we have CAMERA, described as a ” medis fact checking outfit.” In reality a scurrilous propaganda outfit whose main researchers were banned by the Wiki editorial board for making a whole load of stuff up.
you are so funny. I always knew I liked you.
Well I have read part one. So far it is very much a case of nothing to see here.
I do not expect you to find or see anything Stephen. I’d be rather surprised if you did. It’s a bit like JVL walking in the group for years, going in front of the TV, and telling everyone they have never seen any antisemitism . Same same.
David having read the whole thing ( I probably am the only person that has and ever will) I have a couple of pieces of advice. First and most important, get more sleep. Also afford others what you demand for yourself, that is condemn them for what THEY say or write, rather than engage in lengthy exercises in tenuous guilt by association.
poppycock. If I walk into a pub, and a KKK guy is there, that is guilt by association. If I belong to a KKK club, it is a little bit different. You don’t get a free pass in a KKK club, just because you don’t write about it. Worse still, the JVL and FSOI guys are screaming there is no antisemitism in Labour. I think we can all agree that not only is that a lie, but their proximity to it creates a rather nasty smell. Why are Jewish people hanging around with White supremacists and Holocaust deniers. They are a disgrace.
There is no more antisemitism in Labour than there is in any other party. And I’ve never yet seen or heard antisemitism at a Labour Party meeting but that doesn’t mean it never happens. If you regard supporters of the boycott movement as all antisemites, you’re being ridiculous. Or those who say that at times the IDF in Gaza have behaved like stormtroopers. You don’t have the right to sanitise and censor people’s language.
I post a report about Holocaust deniers and Rothschild conspiracy theorists and people coming her calling me ridiculous and going on about the IDF. Absurd. Check my blog – it isn’t my fight. Did you read the report? Did you see the levels? Did you see how those saying there is no antisemitism were made to look fools? Nope, you just came here with the latest soundbite from the anti-Zionist forum, that deflects often enough to be a useful tool. The ‘there is no more antisemitism’ bit is equally as redundant. I am not talking about the whole party, only a part of it. If you wish to suggest that when the concentrated antisemitism in one part, is diluted in the whole it becomes statistically comparable with other parties, I’d accept that, but it is meaningless.
Thank you for engaging in conversation. I appreciate you’ve done a lot of work in preparing this report, but plainly we have wholly different preconceptions about the nature of antisemitism. For one thing, you dismiss the JVL as a front for antisemitic jews trying to defend the indefensible, whereas I see it as a polite, courteous forum for debate where there has (on its website) been not one solitary example of antisemitism. They do speak up for Palestine, and they do regularly criticise Israel. I would like to see a good mannered debate about these things, rather than the mud-slinging and overzealous criticisms of those who misuse the term Zionist. You may regard the term Zionist as much the same as “jew”. To some of us it connotes an expansionist policy whereby land is grabbed from the Palestinians in breach of UN resolutions. If the word Zionist is taboo we need a different word. But we also need to respect each other’s genuine wish to fight fascism and antisemitism and holocaust-denial, as these are beliefs we all have in common.
JVL have yet to apologise for hosting the Miko Peled. Peled mantained that the Holocaust was a legitimate matter for debate, but, confusingly, Zionism should be no platformed because we don’t speak to Nazis (apart from actual Nazis).
They show no engagement in wider Jewish interests or culture except in the context of being opposed to the world’s only Jewish state. What’s their angle on creationism and faith schools? On feminism? On Jewish literature? A big fat nothing.
Jon. I always engage in conversation. Either my arguments have merit or they don’t. If they don’t, why hold them?
A couple of things. How can ‘Zionism’ connote ‘an expansionist policy whereby land is grabbed from the Palestinians in breach of UN resolutions’. When Zionism predates the UN by 50 years and for the first few decades it was the international law that supported Zionism.
Secondly. A year ago, I wrote a similar report on antisemitism in the PSC. Inside the report were both Elleanne Green and Tony Gratrex. What FSOI (JVL) CHOSE to do was ridicule the report. They may have had their ideological reasons to do so, but it doesn’t excuse the defence of racism. This was a year ago. Today I publish a report where JVL are inside a group – and the two key admin are Elleanne Green and Tony Gratrex.
They may not be antisemites, but for the last year they have publicly stood on many platforms and denied antisemitism in Labour. So we clearly have an issue. I believe that for ideological purposes they deliberately blur the lines (just as they accuse their opponents are doing). This means they are protecting racists. It will form the basis of an open complaint I am making to UK Labour. Unless someone can explain to my why they were still covering for Green and Gratrex a year after my report was clearly in their hands, I am going to find it difficult to judge them in any other way.
“Jon” said
> You don’t have the right to sanitise and censor people’s language.
Yet “Jon” called for just that to one of my earlier posts.
“Jon” you are FULL of SHIT.
Happy Nakba for you and your Sand Nazi friends.
You are as bad as any antisemite. The fact that you direct your spleen at Palestinians doesn’t make it acceptable. You are the sort of person who should be suspended from any political party to which you belong.
Jon, You ae ad DUMB as any antisemite, racist, fascist, preening socialist justice warrior.
SORRY if I have zero tolerance for a group of people who proclaim they want to wipe Israel off the map and replace it with a 58th Islamist dictatorship.
You are the sort of person who would be welcomed back to the Laboor party after a short time out for being a naughty antisemite, wink, wink.
So this is interesting – David Collier runs a bulletin board of comments which include hate speech directed at non-jews. By failing to challenge and repudiate such speech, he is – by his own logic – condoning and adopting those attitudes.
‘Having read the whole thing’
literally half an hour after it was posted
I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t allow such a direct troll (the name) attack on any of the Zionists here. Can you make it a little more different….
ok
Bellamy, now Bellendy.
What gives?
“I probably am the only person that has and ever will” – I wonder if you, and the others of your ilk here, are false flag operations to show up the Jew-baiters for the lunatics they are.
> whose main researchers were banned by the Wiki editorial board for making a whole load of stuff up.
Exactly what load of stuff was made up???
Any link to what CAMERA made up that is not True?
Seems petty to deconstruct the language used by focusing on the minutiae of the subtle nuances of a single word. The thrust of the report exposes the depravity and casual racism of a swathe of the Left. You might find that worthy of your attention.
It isn’t the way he works. He needs to make it look as if there is a problem, even when there isn’t. When it is something as big as this, he chooses to attack two of the links. What is he going to do, have a go at me for finding dozens of holocaust deniers? For finding Corbyn and Tonge. For the Mavi story? For utterly destroying FSOI and JVL?
FSOI and JVL will give it one big yawn and move on. Or at least they would if they have any sense.
Stephen Bellamy on anti-semitism – one big yawn. Condemned with his own words.
Can we assume that the suspension of Glyn Secker, the Secretary of Jewish Voice for Labour, was triggered by David’s dossiers (the Part 2)? I’m guessing probably yes. And yet, it’s mainly guilt by association and the same with Corbyn. Are we really to see a Facebook group as a little club, like a golf club or social club, where the members all know each other and drink together at an imaginary bar? That isn’t how Facebook works. You join groups to find an audience, and if there are trolls and antisemites you ignore them. Personally I call them out when I see antisemitic remarks but many people feel it is impolite to start up a flame war, and they simply ignore the trolls and antisemites. I don’t feel that David’s dossier takes account of this. In general terms, though, we should all be encouraged to challenge antisemites wherever we encounter them.
You mean the Glyn Secker about which David wrote “Glyn Secker has had minimal interaction on the site” and “In any event, beside the fact he interacted on the site, and with Elleanne Green, there was nothing more of interest to the research.” Actual facts: David was scrupulously fair.
How about “Glynn Secker ‘heckled a leading figure in the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) during his speech to the party conference’ the year before”? Then a table which labels Secker as a “Jewish anti-Zionist”. And then calling him a member of highly antisemitic secret Facebook Group Palestine Live. It may be objective and fair, yes. But then you have to realise that the little lad in the Labour Party who makes these important decisions about suspensions, Sam Matthews “Head of Disputes”, seems to be barely out of university (I was about to say, nappies) and with little or no life experience, and he’s now suspending lots of people because he’s learned how to press the suspension button. Secker hasn’t been told why he has been suspended so my point is, quite likely it’s because of David’s Dossier. Perhaps he’ll be abruptly un-suspended after a few months, as I was. My offence had nothing to do with antisemitism. I’ve corresponded with lots of suspended people and none of them were accused of antisemitism.
ok I lied the above wasn’t my last comment. The above wasn’t my last comment. I have re read part two this time very slowly and with the greatest of care. The people that are David’s real targets are not found saying or writing anything remotely antisemitic. He can only whine about who they ” hang out with”. For example Corbyn, who I am not a fan of, he is a wimp, seems to be guilty of helping to facilitate a talk by Max Blumenthal. Anf of course there is LVL. Rosenhead is told that he shouldn’t be talking to certain people. Pots, kettles, glass houses and stones spring to mind.
Lets remind ourselves of some of the people David hangs out with.
Jonathan Hoffman
Harvey Garfield
Melanie Philips
Stephen Pollard.
Mandy Blumenthal
But surely David asks they can see the racist stuff all around them ? Well David cross posts on Harrys Place which makes Palestine Live seem like ringa ringa rosy.
Like I said nothing to see here.
Wow, the people that loony Bellend lists (Hoffman, Pollard, Melanie Philips, Garfield etc) – they are literally literally literally worse than Nazis. innit?
Just fuck off, pondscum.
Who are your real targets, Stephen? Please stop with the lying, and let us know what your comment was intended to achieve. Cards on the table time now
I thought he was scoffing at David’s ‘guilty through association’.
You were obviously ignorant to the obvious.
So Stephen has come here to defend Corbyn, who he is “not a fan of”. Or a more parsimonious explanation – he is here to obfuscate, minimise and poke spurious holes at clear evidence of antisemitism.
No, think he sees no substance or logic jn David’s legendary claims of antisemitism under every stone.
It’s amazing how skilled certain people can be at not seeing antisemitism. Read. The. Report. How is David Icke not antisemtic (he believes Jews are reptile aliens?)
Is there IslamoFAUXbia under every stone? To those who push the IslamoFAUXbia trope, there is.
Mr / Mrs anonymous….I came here to defend Corbyn ? Really. Unyil he finds a bit of backbone he can burn in hell for all I care
That was exactly my point. You came here to try to obfuscate antisemitism.
Wasn’t it the IHRA definition that did that, Sum?
Right, Mike, you have a much clearer non-obfuscatory definition of antisemitism, under which presumably it’s fine to deny the existence of gas chambers, and which you’d now like to propound on rather than deal with the substantive issue of carefully documented antisemitism.
Denying the Gas Chambers??! Not me. But why would that be specifically antisemitic? Explain.
Hi Mike, everyone just saw you question why denying gas chambers is antisemitic. It’s not a good look.
It’s mean and nasty. Can YOU tell me why it is specifically antisemitic?
Mikey, Holocaust denial is Anti-Semitic.
Just like Slavery denial is Racist.
“Mikey, Holocaust denial is Anti-Semitic.”
Nasty and hurtful, but why antisemitic?
I am being schooled on ignorance from the kings of ignorance, who have never seen antisemitism, and believe it is all a plot to unseat Corbyn.
Of course it’s anti-Corbyn.
The 9/11 truthers are “of course” a plot to unseat Corbyn. The plot has certainly thickened… do tell more.
When a British Jew dares to sneeze, it’s of course a plot to unseat Corbyn.
Mike, swivel-eyed paranoia is not a good look.
British Jews are no less safe than any other member of British society, safer in fact than British muslims, apparently. Perhaps David should ‘research’ Islamophobia to be an even greater asset to the world.
Humbled to find myself included in such illustrious company. Much Appreciated Bellamy .
OK, then Counter Chant this..
From the River to the Sea,
paleSTINE Will Never Be!
thats helpful
This is my last comment on this. The thing I have been most looking forward to is Simon Cobbs talking like he has read it. And here it is o:)
SussexFriendsIsrael
@SussexFriends
26m26 minutes ago
Over the past few years @mishtal has often gone beyond the call of duty in exposing the anti-Semitism leeching from the pro-Palestinian Movement. However his latest report goes far beyond anything seen before & exposes the anti-Semites for all to see. We all owe him thanks.
3 replies . 6 retweets 13 likes
Go back to your pussy cat videos.
Edward that is an invitation I just can’t refuse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kgRFHaNo-Y
I have to admit that it’s a GREAT pussy cat video. 🙂
Mrs. Bates I presume?
The grand mufti of Jerusalem meets adolf hitler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVuIht_nzDU
Seems Hitler was above meeting Ishtak Shamir who sought a deal with him to attack the British in Palestine. So, he had SOME standards.
Mikey, Any Newsreels on Youtube,
like the one above I posted of Socialist hitler and your Grand Mufti meeting,
to support your ludicrous claim?
Let’s see what ya got, pal, yob, wanker, boob, comrade :-).
Edward wishes to see a video of a meeting that Hitler declined to have with Shamir?
Are you in an institution, Edward?
Mikey, Maybe your addled brain causes you to confuse the Grand Mufti with Itzhak Shamir.
Back to Reality, the video of Socialist hitler meeting, exchanging salutes, sitting together with your Grand Mufti shows all what kind of scum your pals are.
Come to think of it, the pussy cat must be watching what is happening to the Horror show called The Laboor Party.
Is this true David ?
Collier’s ‘guilt by tenuous association’ methodology could equally be applied to Collier himself.
Collier has been a member of a 27,000-member Facebook group called ‘International Community’ since 4 August 2016. Antisemitic and Holocaust denial content is posted in that group regularly, alongside Islamophobic material (as well as entirely innocuous pieces). I found numerous examples of hate speech there, none of which appear to have been challenged by Collier during his time in the group.
Debra R Cohen added Collier to the group. As can be seen from the example below (the screengrab with images of Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić), she has expressed genocidally anti-Muslim views in the group, which Collier doesn’t appear to have challenged either.
IslamoFAUXbia is a Crime Against Islamofascism/Terrorism/Jihad.
Just finished Part One David and you are due huge credit for this report. Readers outside the small clutch of opposing activists that post here will find the content extraordinary and compelling and ought to prompt far greater concerns about the prejudice against Jews that you highlight. It is quite telling that when faced with 90 odd pages of detail about horrific antisemitism, the only deflections that your opponents have left to them is a criticism of your language and the inevitable airing of personal grudges against people that are not you . I think that readers will draw their own conclusions on this. Great work
Part Two finished and the assertions at the core of Part One are simply and firmly reinforced, namely the prevalence in the UK of a horrific and aggressive prejudice against Jews. As for the desperate attempts to run interference and deflect from this issue with remarks like ‘nothing to see here’ I imagine that the thousands that follow David and the wider readership will draw a very different conclusion.
For someone who doesn’t think much of David ‘s research, Mr Bellamy doth protest too much. Stephen doesn’t actually say anything to refute David’s research. He can’t because he is incapable of saying anything that isn’t derogatory, sarcastic or asinine. Stephen trolls Jewish websites to promote his narcissistic fantasies that he is a clever fellow who can see through those pesky Jews! How many comments here Stephen? Yet, not a single, thoughtful response. Not a single point does Mr Bellamy make that does anything other than make Stephen look like an adolescent sulking! Do continue to mock, Stephen! The joke is on you every time!
Don’t forget Bellend’s equally vile mates here, A Zionist.
David’s research is exemplary, by the way.
I think David’s research is excellent. It is thorough and must have taken many hours. I can’t praise David Collier enough for what he does. Stephen Bellamy, on the other hand, is the opposite. Apart from his supercilious conceit, his painful and pitiful narcissism, he has nothing of note to actually say. What he does is to adopt Arthur Schopenhauer’s idea, which was written in “The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument”, even when there is no argument, as is the case with Stephen Bellamy. All one needs to do, is to put one’s opponent into some “odious” category and then attack. This is Mr Bellamy’s default. Since Stephen Bellamy had obviously not read David’s PDFs, all he could rely upon was “the smear”, the unfunny quips and nit-picking on David’s approach. Someone needs to explain to Mr Bellamy, that in the world of academia, it is up to the author to define and then to describe the methodology used in order to show what the author set out to do. David did this brilliantly. Therefore, as Mr Bellamy has nothing more than his narcissistic wind, he is unable to refute anything from David’s study.
“Stephen doesn’t actually say anything to refute David’s research.”
But David’s ‘research’ shows nothing. It just presents David’s ‘conclusions’. Very difficult to refute nothing!
The research shows plenty. You know that antisemitism you can never see? There’s about 230 pages full of it in the report.
Shall re-read both parts, looking for actual quotes and verifiable instances Wish md luck.
Your comment reads like an earnest attempt to prove that 1+1=3. The antisemitism is carefully documented: how do you refute it? Oh, that’s right, you segue into generalities and abstractions. We see you, Mike.
Oh I an not mocking AZ. This is a stupendous effort that makes me nostalgic for the days when I had such energy. Actually I don’t think I had such energy. My point is a simple and discreet one. David demontrates that there are some nut jobs, in the world but we knew that already. Certainly David did, he hangs out with a goodly few.
All I am saying is that David misses the target so far as his main objective is. That is to demonstrate antisemitism among senior LP figures and the wrong kind of Jews. He does not come up with a single instance of an antisemitic post by any of these people.
He also shows there are idiots in the world, not least Corbyn.
I don’t understand facebook enough to understand how these people got to be members of such a group. But that they could do so without sharing the ethos of the group is clear from the fact Clive Lewis is a member. Lewis is a highly committed Zio and a buddy of Jeremy Newmark of 20 years standing.
He also is jerk of the first order.
see here
https://bookburnersrus.wordpress.com/2017/11/06/clive-lewis-didnt-get-proper-guidance/
“I don’t understand facebook enough to understand how these people got to be member of such a group”
I rather think that you do actually.
You mean, Bellend could be lying????
Shame on you for suggesting such a thing.
Having just heard Chabloz giving evidence at Westminster Magistrates, I think I’m just about ready for anything. The public gallery was a horror show as one would expect , not the Nazi skinhead variety but Mittle Englanders. The type that tend their gardens and give pride and place to Facebook photos of their pets. Everyday middle class wrinkly Nazis. Too bad the courts had nowhere to take a shower to remove the all pervading stench of these people
Just hang one of those “Little Trees” Air Fresheners around the neck of those soiled wrinkly Nazis. That should help.
Unlikely.
Harvey – indeed. I have met the types in person. Pillars of the local community, but very much the sort of people who in another time and another place would have volunteered for special duties in the NSDAP, given half a chance.
I don’t know much about Chabloz beyond a few reports on the internet. If it is true that she denies that people were exterminated in gas chambers and calls Auschwitz a “theme partk”, then she is causing huge offence to a large number of people. My own grandparents were gassed at Auschwitz. But I don’t know of any Labour Party members who would ever attempt to defend her “right” to say such things. The most fervent critics of Israel (in the Labour Party) stop well short of claiming that the holocaust didn’t happen. If she is acquitted, it’s very likely that we need new laws to deal with this.
So now I’ve found Chabloz on Youtube performing her song “Survivors” in which she mocks those who survived the extermination camps and calls them liars. It’s such a vile song and so devoid of any artistic merit that I was too disgusted to listen to the very end. Reminds me of the Irving v Lipstadt trial and the various remarks that Irving was proud of having said. I don’t believe any decent person, whether or not they are antagonistic towards Israel, would attempt to justify her behaviour and her right to perform such a song.
“The most fervent critics of Israel (in the Labour Party) stop well short of claiming that the holocaust didn’t happen” – are you seriously claiming that no ‘Labour’ member at all claims this?
I am sure some of them do make this claim. And some others would be happy to see it repeated.
So you’re “sure” of that? Then please cite examples. Any member of the Labour Party who advocates holocaust denial will certainly be suspended and I’m happy to report them to the party personally.
I note that Corbyn called Mads Gilbert who, in an interview in Norwegian, supported the 9/11 attacks on the USA (https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/forsvarer-angrepet-pa-usa/65752046) his friend and said that he (Corbyn) would be delighted to invite him (Gilbert) to Westminster.
That’s our Jeremy.
David, is that it, is that your big expose trumpeted on your Twitter account? Oh dear! I can believe your assertion that you haven’t had much sleep. I’d go lie down in a darkened room. Maybe you’ll feel better in the morning.
It’s okay John. I understand that in the anti-Zionist circles they’ve all become desensitised to raw Jew hate and Holocaust denial. So it is only to be expected you talk down the report. In the real world the blog is viral, my phone hasn’t stopped ringing, the Labour party have opened an investigation, Corbyn has issued a statement, several papers are running articles and high profile people are running from the group. So let’s just agree to disagree because of our cultural differences.
“Corbyn has issued a statement” – sure, he will now expel all antisemites from ‘Labour’.
In your dreams, there is no chance that Corbyn will expel all antisemites from the “Labour” party.
Dear Mr Bellamy,
You object to the definition of antisemitism included in the report. Presumably you have a better definition, in which 9/11 trutherism, Baghdadi / Mossad myths, Holocaust revisionism, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Rothschild tropes, and claims that Jews control the banks are legitimate expressions of solidarity with the Palestinians.
At the moment you are coming across rather Comical Ali, with cats.
Someone
I have always thought the modern day Comical Ali was Mark Regev, without even the saving grace of cats
Right, but I asked you a question, and all you came back with was cats. Which leads me to believe that your sole purpose here is generating a mound of verbiage in a slightly tragic effort to obfuscate obvious anti-semitism. What you are doing is funny, but it’s also completely morally wrong – cats or no cats.
More spittle-flecked crap from the lunatic Bellend.
@JSW .Oh dear. Seems like we have one of Jackie Walker’s gophers on site.
I was not aware that Ms Walker had any gophers whatsoever Harvey. With this revelation, I’m going to send her a message via FB and see if she responds. i do know her little show had a reasonable review in a Jewish news organ. perhaps the Reviewer/Critic was a Christian?
Which ‘news organ’ was that . Note JFJFP doesn’t count.
David, you are right about the reach of the article; – http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-was-member-of-facebook-group-at-centre-of-anti-semitism-investigation_uk_5aa00289e4b002df2c5fc68d?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics
I think the telling remark by the Labour Party spokesman is “Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party has been an increasingly apparent problem, but this investigation reveals just how deep and entrenched it is within our movement,”
Of course there may still be a few people who believe that there is nothing to see here !
Ian you should not believe everything Iain McNichol tells you
Oh Ian that was very naughty. That was Philips a LAAS nut job. Not a Labour Party.If you can’t contribute with sincerity it might be best if you don’t contribute at all.
OK maybe there was no insincerity but another example of how you don’t have the remotest fucking clue what is going on.
The mask is slipping. Your incivility is of little concern; your blase attitude to the carefully documented antisemitism rather is.
Except I don’t wear a mask Mr/Mrs anonymous
Stephen, I seem to have missed all the fun and only by chance came across Collier’s in-depth ‘DeepThroateasque’ Exclusive via HuffPost – God, all the travelling I’m presently forced to undertake make me miss so much.
Do I need to wear a flak jacket when visiting my folks in South Wales next week, just in case the anti-semites and racists come out and attack me? Perhaps some of my attackers will be wearing Corbyn masks! Never seen a KKK gathering in my home area, but will ask down the Pub where the gathering is, and if one is happening, perhaps Mr Collier and Scoffie will be in attendance, no doubt confronting actual anti-semitism.
you guys are out in force tonight. It’s a good sign. I count the effectiveness of my research via a complex calculation that uses both the speed of your arrival, and how many of you turn up. A good post today. thanks
Careful that there being being nothing decent on telly doesn’t give you false pride, David
Hi Mike, your trail of destructive and abusive ad hominem comments aimed at Dave exposes the complete inability to refute the carefully documented antisemitism.You’re tilting at windmills, and we all see you.
Someone, it’s not carefully documented anti-semitism, it’s carefully documented accusations of anti-semitism.
So there may be truth to the accusation that San Bernadino was a false flag Mossad operation? Or you have some other mitigation? No, you just bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and shout “CAN’T HEAR YOU”. It’s frankly embarrassing.
Yeah, yeah, blah blah, accusations of antisemitism are used solely to shut down all debate about Israel’s worse-than-Nazism behaviour.
Hi Chris, I take it t from your comment that your definition of objectionable racism is set to exclude violence at a level below that requiring a flak jacket; and violence emanating from anything other than sterotypical racists. You certainly fill me with complete confidence that you aren’t at all racist yourself, and that I would be completely safe in your company from violence.
Not a clue who you are, so lets call you ‘SOCK PUPPET’. However, as I’m forced to fly via the Middle East, maybe Doha or Dubai, I’ll have to don my flak jacket as soon as I depart from the Far East. Given the number of anti-semites in the UK, somewhere over 65 million, according to Colliers and Scoffie Hoffman’s figures, I’ll be forced to run a gauntlet of hate from the Middle East onwards. Luckily, I’m auto-excluded from the Labour Party for the crime of being a Green. I’m a big supporter of Ms Formby though, which of course, via some kind of association, must make me an ‘anti-semite’. I now believe the entire membership of the NEC must be anti-semites, and that includes all the jewish folk who sit on it. I’ll start an investigation like David shall I?
“I’ll start an investigation like David shall I?”
Make sure someone funds you firsr.
Hi Chris, I seem to have missed the bit where Collier claims “65 million antisemites” live in in the UK, and the bit where antisemitism is entirely acceptable if less than 65 million antisemites live in the UK, and the bit where Ms Formby is mentioned at all in either report (press ctrl -f and do a search – that’s right, she isn’t).
I know you’d like to characterise this as an internal labour party political struggle, but it really is about racism.
Sure, Michael – perhaps like those octopus-tentacled, hook-nosed bankers that run the universe at the behest of the Zionists?
Sure, spittle-flecked misquotations make you SO credible, don’t they, creep?
I would say you use cats to mask racism.
If you mean racism against squirrels you are probably right
No, I mean racism against your fellow human beings, which you seem to think is a laughing matter.
Mr/ Mrs anonymous let me tell you how it is. When the guys down at The Dock and Duck have had a few and the racist chit comes out Jews don’t get a mention.
I am sorry if this leaves you feeling left out and discriminated against.
On the other hand, in my experience, largely experience based on a particular nut job cat, squirels do get a bum deal
That’s fascinating, because as an actual Jew I get sworn at, threatened, have things thrown at me from car windows, the whole time, (my record was seven shouted comments, including one from a teenager holding a wooden branch threateningly, a drunk bloke who lunged and tried to throw me of the Redheugh Tyne bridge, and a packet of half eaten chips slathered in ketchup thrown from a car window – all in the course of 2 hours), but thank you for your keen observations on how denial of antisemitism should properly work.
The lunatic Bellend imagines that HE has ‘the remotest fucking clue what is going on’.
Seek help.
Your contributions appear to amount to wildly scrabbling around to obfuscate obvious antisemitism. There is an obvious effrontery to the way which you accuse others of not engaging with the subject in good faith while your entire engagement in this thread has consisted of wildly throwing mud at minor details and definitions, refusing to engage on the substance (i.e – the discovery of a vast cesspit of antisemitism in which senior politicians have wallowed) and hoping that some of the mud sticks somewhere
As well as being immoral, your flailing is drawing attention to your obvious panic – not covering it up.
” it establishes beyond doubt the indivisibility of anti-Zionism and antisemitism.”?
There you have it. A bold statement.
So, Mr. Collier suggests anti-Zionism and antisemitism are the same thing. Rubbish!
that is not what indivisibility means. Why are you twisting words to distort?
No intentional twisting. So, anti-Zionism isn’t anti-semitism then.
Why do you keep hitting me with these straw men?
Give your buzz-phrases a rest and attempt to reveal just what your view is.
Is anti-Zionism anti-semitic?
I have written about this so many times. Do I equate them. No, I don’t, although I do understand why some people do. I think it is errant because theoretically, a man who supports no nation states, cannot be a racist for not supporting Israel. The problem begins in the practical application, and there it gets messy. But they are not equal. I do believe however they are indivisible. If you pick one up, you’ll get the other. Malaria is not a swamp.
As in Zionism and Racism are indivisible, David?
Islamofascism and Terrorism are indivisible.
See 9/11, Londons’ 7/7, Paris’ Charlie Hebo and Bataclan, Nice France truck jihad on Bastille Day, Boston Marathon, .beheading of Lee Rigby and journalist Daniel Pearl, Theo Van Gogh, death threats on Danish cartoonists and writer Salman Rushdie, Orlando nightclub, San Bernardino, Pan Am 103 bombing, Beslan elementary school, Brussels airport, Manhattan bike path, Robert F. Kennedy, Brooklyn Bridge, Empire State building observation deck, Fort Hood, …
Islamofascism and Terrorism are INDIVISIBLE.
Hi Mike. Is “Mossad trained al Baghdadi” legitimate anti Zionist discourse in the service of the Palestinian people?
Mossad stole Mikes shoes and house keys.
That’s an unacceptable comment and does us no justice or favours. If you’re going to be abusive, insulting or racist about Palestinians, Arabs in general, Moslems – or anyone, actually – please don’t masquerade as a friend of Judaism or Israel. You’re neither, and I for one condemn and repudiate such puerile nastiness and bigotry. Our ways have to be better than those of our enemies, not competing with the worst of them to claim a shameful badge of dishonourable conduct. The justice of our cause and arguments means we have no need or excuse for descent into name-calling, ad-hominem attacks or morally unacceptable speech.
Yes, Mike, antiZionism (the destruction of the Jewish state) has to be antiSemitic. How could it not be?
Israel, its proper name, or the “Jewish state”, Norm?
Israel’s population is comprised of Jews, Muslims, Christians and others.
Anti-Zionism is opposition to Israel becoming a state run entirely in a Jewish fashion where Jews control everything.
So you believe that Israel has a right to exist? Congratulations, Mike, you are by your own definition a Zionist.
No state has a ‘right’ to exist, Sum. All have a right to a place where they can live and bring up their children.
I’m confused. According to you, no state (including Palestine) has a right to exist. I’m for self determination for critical masses (about 1-2 million for the smallest viable state) of people of whatever faith, race, and ethnicity.
No need for confusion, Sum.
So you belong to the Kumbaya school of political disengagement? I’m struggling to understand how you respond to the basic human need for a functioning government to provide services and security that we always needed throughout thousands of years of evolution, and square that with a commitment to democracy and human rights.
Democracy is a surprising word to use when you appear to support Zionism.
Democracy, Justice, Progressive are surprising words to use when you appear to support Terrorist “militant” “palestinianism”.
See the “palestinian” attack on the 1972 Olympics and the murder of Olympic athletes, the assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy, “palestinian” celebration of 9/11, Grand Mufti alliance with Socialist hitler, …
Yes, and Boruch Goldstein and Deir Yassin. If you lather in your own grievances and hide yourself to the grievances of others you convince nobody.
Hey Someone, 500,000 dead in Syria. That’s Muslims killing Muslims.
8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war – 1,000,000 dead. That’s Muslims killing Muslims.
Fascist Iran holding mass rallies chanting Death to America and Death to Israel.
I say “F U” to sheik yassin and deir yassin and Fascist Iran.
I also support Palestinian nationhood. You cannot be a consistent Zionist without it.
What utter nonsense.
Deir Yassin is a canard.
I’m not sure what you mean by cannard, but Deir Yassin was a fact. As was the rape of Arab women prisoners in Ramla and Lydda by Israeli soldiers in 1948 (testified to by none other than that arch hater of Israel, David ben Gurion).
It is a canard in the sense that it has been magnified by several orders of magnitude, for obvious reasons.
Just as B. Goldstein is used so as to pretend that all Israeli Jews are Nazis, whereas Abbas is a saint in human clothing despite his constant calls to murder Israeli Jews – which have resulted in many more Israelis being murdered than Goldstein ever murdered Arabs.
Deir Yassin is a gap in Leah’s knowledge.
Jordan is “Palestine” – and that’s on the East bank of the Jordan River.
If you are going to mention Deir Yassin you need to get your facts straight and not from the likes of Illan Pappé. According to Benny Morris, one of the “New Historians” there was no massacre at Deir Yassin, just as there was no “massacre” at Jenin in 2002 and despite affiormation from the UN, the antisemitic blood libel continues. What is always absent is what preceded Deir Yassin, so here is a brief reminder. A convoy of ambulances was attacked by Arabs and this was a massacre. Deir Yassin was a particularly bloody battle on both sides and there were errors made. As Morris describes, no one had any intention, of what then happened. Bad things happen in all wars, but it is always noted how when something that is sadly “normal” in times of war, when committed by Jews who, by the way, were fighting for their lives, all 600,000 (of whom 400,000 were Holocaust survivors) by the illegal invasion of 7 Arab armies who planned to destroy the Jewish state and kill all the Jews, it is the way in which “the Jews” are portrayed.
As for Goldstein. What he did was condemned by left and right and all inbetween. In other words, no one praised Goldstein. Yet, this isolated event, which was evil, is produced again and again, to “prove” Israel as being uniquely evil.
In 1947, having rejected partition for the second time, the Arab League promised the Jews, “a war of extermination and a momentous massacre . . .” comparing what would happen to the Jews with Genghis Khan and Adolf Hitler.
Had the Arabs accepted the right of Jews to live in their ancestral homeland, a mere 22% of what had been promised in international law; and had they not incited their people to kill Jews, which began in 1919 and had 7 Arab armies not invaded in May 1948, the nascent state of Israel, there would have not been any war and there would be peace. Instead, Arab antisemitism, which is not just imported from Europe, which sees Jews as inferior “dhimmis”, continues its antisemitic history, no different from the antisemitism in the UK, Europe and the rest of the world. Next time you mention Deir Yassin, spare a thought for the massacres of Jews in 1921, in 1929 in Hewbron, Jerusalem and Safed; and between 1937-39. Remember too the 1942 Farhud; and Husseini’s role in the extermination of European Jews and his plan, with Himmler and Eichmann, to exterminate the Jews in the Middle East. The Middle East is almost Judenrein.
Everything is a gap in the creep Mike’s knowledge.
To Zionist, a 2004 interview with B.M.
Benny Morris, in the month ahead the new version of your book on the birth of the Palestinian refugee problem is due to be published. Who will be less pleased with the book – the Israelis or the Palestinians? According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?
“Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field – they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village – she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.
“The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion., from a 2004 interview.
“The revised book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.
Mike! “Anti-Zionism is opposition to Israel becoming a state run entirely in a Jewish fashion where Jews control everything.” Really????? News to me! AntiZionism is opposition to Israel’s existence. If you object to Israel’s existence then you also support the massacre of Jews that would result. Don’t give me some stupid comment about Jews and Palestinians living together in harmony. Read the Hamas Charter to see what the Palestinians think of that!
I cannot by sensitive to the antisemitism of the left without calling out the wholly racist discourse of the right. This comment is deeply, deeply wrong.
Icke isn’t antisemitic … he’s insane.
Of course, antisemitism, being by definition irrational prejudice, is commonly found in people with mental health problems, which means we should completely accept irrational prejudice and get on with our lives.
And I presume you also see racism as irrational prejudice. I see Zionism as racism.
I see Palestinianism as racism.
Israel has people of all religions living there.
Gaza and Palestinian enclaves have no Jews living there – not even “anti-Zionist” Jews live in Gaza or Palestinian enclaves.
What is irrational about wanting to govern your own affairs? It’s good enough for the Israelis, and it’s good enough for the UK, and it’s good enough for the Palestinians.
Great. Democracy. Let the people vote on the laws. Let the population, be they Christian, Jew, Jedi etc. vote for how a country is run. Britain is Britian with British laws voted for by British people. Let Palestine(hopefully) vote for Palestinian laws. Let Israel vote for Israeli laws.
Britain is currently a ‘Christian’ majority state. Israel is currently a ‘Jewish’ majority state. Their current names will suffice.
Jordan AKA Palestine is currently a Sunni Muslim majority state.
The way Muslims are flooding into Eurabia, UK and France, in the not too distant future, Sharia Law will be voted as the Supreme Law in Eurabia, as it is in the Islamist Sh*tholes they fled from.
That’s because you have no idea what ‘Zionism’ means, pathetic creep.
My version of Zionism is taken from the Israeli national anthem (please excuse my Ashkenazi transliteration, that’s who I am) “lihyos am chofshi b’artzenu” “to be a free people in our land”.
Presumably yours is inspired by racist ideals where a Jew has more universal entitlements than a Gentile.
I don’t know what you seek to achieve by name calling, but if it is to convince me of either my own lack of self worth, or your own superabundance of worth, I’m afraid the effect has rather failed.
I was, of course, responding to the lunatic Jew-baiters – I had hoped that much was obvious, but apparently not.
I suppose that happens when newbies don’t bother to engage their brains.
PS. Who are these mythical ‘Palestinians’?
Those who have lived in Palestine for generations, Leah.
You refer to Jers who have lived in Israel or 3,000 years.
How many Muslims and mosques were in Jerusalem when Jesus walked the streets of Jerusalem?
So the Jews of Safed in 1920 were ‘Palestinians’, idiot?
Yes, of course, until Israel was born and they were given Israeli citizenship. Ask Nurse to explaiñ the concept to you.
Unhinged swivel-eyed lunacy from the usual source.
Muslims believe they have more Rights than even second class Jizzya paying Infidels.
And Muslim men believe that they have more rights than Muslim women.
What does it mean to Leah? Does it favour Jews?
What flavour do you favour?
How about a double scoop of NAKBA?
I believe the accusations laid at the feet of the Jewish state are false. I believe the sources of those lies are organisations and individuals who hate Jews and Israel.
That is anti-semitism if the charges brought against Israel are lies. So when Jeremy Corybn regurgitates some of those accusations the best i can say about him is he is badly misinformed.
The UN is not a bastion of truth and justice. I believe it has a deep seated bias against Israel.
Consider. With the discovery of oil in the 20th century, there has been a rush of Western powers ingratiating themselves with these Middle East oil dictatorships. the UN has consequently grown increasingly hostile toward Israel. The OIC, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (formed in 1969), is made up of 57 member states and the Palestinian authorities, and they always vote as one. They use oil as a weapon to blackmail / bribe countries into voting for resolutions condeming Israel, such as the zionism=racism resolution adopted in november 1975, when the Arab oil embargo was at it’s hieght.
The UNHRC has many islamic dictatorships as it’s members which have terrible human rights records. The UNHRC has adopted more resolutions condeming Israel than THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED.
Just think of some of the wars of the 20th century in the Middle East.
Arab-Israeli dispute, estimated at (80,000 dead) in total on both sides over seven decades
The Libyan incursion into Chad (100,000 dead)
The Lebanese civil war (150,000 dead)
The Eygptian invasion of Yemen (250,000 dead)
The Algerian civil war (1,000,000 dead)
The Iran-Iraq war (over 1,000,000 dead)
The Sudanese conflict (over 3,000,000 dead) has rumbled on since the 1950’s, hundreds of thousands of women and children raped, murdered or taken into sexual slavery by the Mujahideen, the holy warriors of Islam.
Slavery is rife in muslim majority countries over North Africa and the Middle East like Mauritania, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and doubtless other countries besides.
The Muslim Brotherhood owns Al Jazeera, which operates out of Qatar. The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organisation which has spawned such entities as the Taliban, Al Qaeda and IS. Saudi Arabia and Qatar fund IS. Boko Haram is funded by Iran. I don’t need to tell you what these groups have done to women, children and civilians.
That doesn’t include Africa’s “Great War” which is ongoing in the Democratic Republic of Congo, (over 5,000,000 dead)
Yet Israel is singled out for condemnation in the UN. Western governments and buisnesses, which own/control the west’s media, clamber to do buisness with these oil rich dictatorships. We have been fed a diet of lies about the birth of Israel and her behaviour on the world stage for decades.
Just think, doesn’t the media claim to give the facts and views of both sides of the conflict? When did you last hear the media report the claims below?
That land now known as Israel was at the end of the Ottoman empire sparsley populated.
That there was no country called Palestine or a Palestinian People.
That the Jews outnumbered the Arab population in Jerusalem since the early 1800’s.
That beginning in 1880, and in successive waves thereafter, the returning Jews built the modern infastructure of Israel, ie roads, farms, factories, hospitals, schools, water/sewage treatment, power stations etc.
That this brought in waves of Arab economic migrants looking for jobs.
That western Governments/Media have a bias against Israel because of the desire for Arab oil.
That the Jews did not throw the Arabs off of their land.
Even those who are die hard anti-Israel and reject the above assertions would admit the MSM does not report these claims, far less debunk them. Why is that?
https://wordfromjerusalem.com/…/the-case-for-israel…
https://wordfromjerusalem.com/…/the-case-for-israel…
A nice narrative.
Facts, that you cannot refute.
Mike,
I prefer post apocalypse fiction myself.
Kyle,
Been on a hasbara training course have you, and per part of the course, use pro forma responses. Heard it all before. Alas, does not excuse Israeli atrocities against innocent civilians, particularly all that resulting after 1982. Still, please keep it up as it makes Colliers Blog interesting.
Your intensive Taqiyya training has failed you.
You can’t always play the ISLAMOPHOBIA card in the aftermath of every Islamofascist terrorist attack. Times running out for that gambit.
If you focus on your own preferred set of grievances and ignore the grievances of the other side, you will convince nobody.
The reach of the article extends further drawing a much wider readership for the matter;-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/07/jeremy-corbyn-member-private-facebook-group-posted-anti-semitic/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5753438/corbyn-facebook-group-anti-semitic-posts/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/928717/Jeremy-Corbyn-Palestine-Live-Facebook-group-anti-semitic-comments-Clive-Lewis
This is no longer some narrow discussion between half a dozen activist shouting at each other across a blog. Thanks to David’s endeavours this is now a national story, the debate around which has moved way beyond the amateur responses of a few card carrying Jew haters here.
Old Bellers was right when he said that in his very narrow world on online activism I have not got a clue what is going on. It doesn’t matter anymore because as he knows perception is politics and there is a very large national readership that will be doing an awful lot of perceiving this morning.
Brilliant achievement David.
.
Ian, beware of multiple links – wordpress treat them like spam, so it gets caught and awaits moderation – like this one did
Thank you David. Noted.
I note that Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen have been imprisoned for racial hate crimes – covered in all the MSM on Wednesday. given Jonathan (Scoffie) Hoffman associates with Paul Besser, formerly the Intelligence Officer of Britain First, and Scoffie is a Cohort of David Collier, this must make Collier guilty of racial hate crimes, given his criteria utilised in his Big Report, i.e., Guilt by Association. Further, David Collier is a member of a FB Group with 20K members, many posts found within it are racist. Alas, Collier has failed to express outrage at said racism, and given his membership of said Group, by implication/association must himself be guilty of racism. The Pandora’s Box you have opened David, and criteria you utilise to spread faux anti-semitism works both ways. I’d be more careful if I were you, as those who live in glass houses should not hurl stones shall we say!!!!!
Anyhow, have now downloaded your Report and will read on my iTouch on my journey to London this weekend. Will make interesting reading, particularly the methods you utilise. indeed, one of your cohorts was posting on Free Speech on Israel earlier today, that’s my time not UK time, and quickly outed herself as an agent provocateur trying to elict anti-semitism responses from members. She needs to understand what undercover means and keep her gob shut. Still, she ain’t been barred as Free Speech really does mean Free Speech, which at least you honour here too.
Well, Chris, instead of wildly chucking vague accusations I suggest you buckle down and do what David does – carefully document all the racism you claim to be offended by. At the moment you come across as trying to relitavise antisemitism.
Chris, you will note that David’s work is being considered as sufficiently credible by news editors of papers like the Telegraph, the Express, the Mail and the Sun to be cited as source material for their headline articles on antisemitism in the UK. Do you really think that whataboutery, feeble allegations of guilt by remote association 30 times removed and filibuster anecdotes about fictional and always assimilated Jews from someone that cannot even maintain a consistent cover story will carry the same weight? The information is now out there and bleat as you may in this narrow space, there are millions of readers who will be drawing their own conclusions this morning.
I’m awfully sorry Ian, but don’t usually read Tory rags, particularly those associated with supporting fascism during the 1930s – I have been on HuffPo though, no less than commenting. Indeed, given much of what we read in the MSM is PR bollocks, I now use alternative sources written by those who have an actual understanding. Good try though, and as you no doubt read The Daily Heil and Torygraph, again, and by historical association, using Colliers criteria, this makes you a racist and fascist too. As stated, if you live by a sword of your own making, you’ll die by it too!
Not that spittle-flecked reference to which paper supported what 80 years ago, again …
You are a sad joke.
As to the Huff Post, which is a lunatic propaganda piece of trash NOW … oh, dear.
Ian, you are obviously not of this country.
ALL of the paers that you mention are supporters of the Conservative Party.
Mr. Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party. Any STORY that paints Mr. Corbyn in a bad light will of course be seized on and spread.
Newspapers aren’t there for readers to form their own conclusions, they are, as David’s blogs, to present a conclusion, however illogical and flawed.
What’s more Conservative than any of the Islamist groups like Al Qada, ISIS, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, Al Nusra, Al Shabab, Al Pacino (that one’s a joke)?
Conservatism is OK when the Ultra-Ultra Conservatives are those poor “people of colour”.
Edward,
Funny how many of the radical Islamist Groups you mention are covertly backed by no less than the Western Imperialist powers, just look at Syria & Libya. As for Al Pacino, he actually paid a visit to one of my mothers friends in the wilds of Wales quite a number of years ago, his bodyguard at the time was Welsh – quite a nice bloke in person allegedly.
Al Quaeda is covertly backed by Western Imperialist powers. Could you just explain 9/11 to me? False flag? Mossad? Or very much opposed to the US?
Err, EASTERN European Imperialist power RUSSIA OPENLY backs Syria AND Ultra-Right Wing, Conservative Fascist Iran.
Who would have thought that Progressives would back Right-Wing states?
Michael,
Funny you should add to this, I’ve responded to Ian in kind, but provided evidence of actual fascist support, and the British Union of Fascists was defiantly an anti-semitic organisation. So, Ian thinks its great that these anti-semitic supporting news organs carry memes by David Collier. Talk about guilt by association. Some good material on The Lobster too by way of some new books out covering fascism in the UK.
yes, well done (second part). That is exactly how guilt by association works. Good example. Find an extremist organisation that has a painting in the lobby, and then attack the artist.
you are a fool. Do you have any idea how long I spent yesterday with journalists, needing to nail it down for them PRECISELY, because they are all so worried about the slightest mistake and how much it will cost them. You live in a cult world that has disassociated itself from reality, whilst they live in a world where they get sued when they put in one bad word. You are conflating sensationalism with a lie. One takes the truth and manipulates it to make it better or worse than it is – or uses it to send a message. Propaganda if you will. The other is simply not true. You’ve convinced yourself they are lying, which is a very dangerous mindset to live in. In fact, I am quite proud of how my work holds up, and whilst I needed to send them evidence of particular elements to show I had researched the accuracy of it all, I was not once put in a position where they raised an issue I had not considered.
“you are a fool.”.
Not fool enough to take your imaginings and flawed logic seriously.
Michael, I’ll led Glinda speak for me…
Glinda: [laughs] Oh, rubbish! You have no power here. Now begone, before somebody drops a house on you too!
Ian,
Just to assure we are on the same page, and pay tribute to your testament that The Daily Mail carries reports containing aspect of faux anti-semitism reported on this Blog, here’s a decent article detailing the Mail’s support for UK fascism, which was highly anti-semitic (remember Cabal Street?). Now, by David’s own criteria, this link proves conclusively this Blog and David are complicit in anti-semitism. hoisted by our own petards no doubt. Here we go: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/revealed-the-extent-of-the-daily-mails-support-for-the-british-union-of-fascists/28/10/
Oh, that’s fine then. The Daily Mail supported facists, therefore the left gets a free and indefinite pass on anti-semitism. Not OK.
Cabal Street? I don’t remember it. Tell us all about “Cabal Street”. 🙂
You’re both missing the point. Your opinion of my politics is wholly irrelevant as are the journalistic agendas of the papers. The fact that professional editors have examined David’s reports and deemed them sufficiently credible to cite as source material for their headlines is the pertinent matter. You are simply setting your critique of David’s competence against their professional judgments and I am fairly sure which one will carry the greater weight
“and deemed them sufficiently credible”?
My, aren’t you being naive?
Ian,
Utter tripe, these rags you mention have no Professional standards, and that includes the bloody Guardian. Please see Noam Chomsky on this issue, or perhaps Chris Hedges, who’s views actually do carry weight.
Yes I know. It is that wonderful mindset again. Been reading about it for weeks. MSM are all ‘rags’ and not to be trusted. Instead, you collect your stuff from ‘reliable’ sources – Like, pseudo-science and conspiracy sites. Go read your news from those that ‘are the only ones willing to tell the truth’. It’s a cult, and you are displaying cultish behaviour.
Ah, a ‘cult’. Echoes of a previous blog? Another of your wild imaginings.
Chomsky??? THAT sad joke????
ROFL.
Chomsky is above your pay grade I’m afraid Leah.
I think Chris is trying to suggest that you are being paid to be here Leah (At least that what David Icke told him). No Chris, we are here, fighting antisemitism for free!!!
I think ‘pay grade’ is his euphemism for intelligence.
p.s. David tilts at windmills for donations.
Thicko Mike’s idea of intelligence: “Blah … blah … screech …”.
Mind you, Creep Chris is the same.
Wrong as usual, creep.
Again Chris, you miss the point. Your view on professional standards in journalism is irrelevant. The editors that cited David’s reports have already validated them as credible, attributable source materials. Whether you support their agendas or not is beside the point. Whether you believe that 23 million monthly readers of the Daily Mail are all fascists is irrelevant. The 4 papers that carry the story this morning have a net monthly readership of a little over 60 million people (source NRS) many of whom will use this information and others sources to draw their own conclusions on the issue of antisemitism in the UK. Again I suggest that David’s report is being given far greater respect and weight by far more people now than you would like and you have no choice but to allow people to form their own views.
Hum Ian…….doubtless David will get his well deserved day in the sun, no pun intended. That does not trouble me in the slightest. However, and this is merely a technical point, your figures are a bit wierd. There are 25 readership days for a national daily in most months. You can probably do the maths yourself……..
“The editors that cited David’s reports have already validated them as credible, attributable source materials.” Sorry, the criteria is not ‘credible’ but ‘useful’ … as ‘antisemitism’ in David’s blogs.
Look guys, scratch at any straws you want but the readership numbers are from the National Readership Survey, not mine and any semantics that you want to play around with are irrelevant. The papers have written their pieces, they’re out there and the millions that read them will use them to draw their own conclusions. Your attempts to demean and discredit the source material and the author are probably best taken up with the papers and their editors rather than bleating here.
So, you credit the Sun and Daily Mail as believable newspapers, purveyors of truth?
You live in Israel, don’t you?
But then Ian Prince Willie will trap his finger nail in the door and welll….. You talk like there has been some kind of game changer. Dream on
this pretty much sums it up….
Martin SE5
@Martin_SE5
Follow Follow @Martin_SE5
More Martin SE5 Retweeted
I’m Corbynsceptic but this is weak conspiracy theory crap. If you’ve got a smoking gun, you don’t need 2 massive PDFs to make the point. All they’ve proved is Corbyn joined a FB group and occasionally made a brief comment when someone tagged him and he got a notification. https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/971304905628635137 …
Again, my view is not the point and a total irrelevance. That these papers has a huge daily audience of millions of readers online and in print is a matter of fact. It is irrelevant whether you view every single one of them as a fascists or anything else. David’s report has given them a chance to read about the issue of antisemitism in the UK and form their own views. If this emotes greater sympathy for Jews and possibly for Israel then this is something that you will now have to tackle in a different way from now.
“David’s report has given them a chance to read about the issue of antisemitism in the UK and form their own views. “….. and to be informed about the murderous attack by heavily armed Israeli commandos on an unarmed vessel in International waters which resulted in the shooting dead of 9 of the passengers, the abuse they later suffered and the confiscation of their equipment and footage. Also included in his report are witness statement attesting to the savagery.
Well done David.
That was also the report which also criticised the protestors for ignoring the actual humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza, needless confrontationalism, attempting to breach a lawful blockade, organised violence, found that the IDF’s use of force in rescuing their own kidnapped personnel was justifiable, as well as documenting incidents of unjustifiable IDF force, theft of personal property and rough treatment of prisoners? Your selective reading convinces nobody.
‘Unarmed vessel’?
You need professional help.
The blockade was 100% lawful, idiot.
Yes, unarmed. The commandos were not.
some say legal, somd say illegal. What wasn’t legal was the murder of the 9 Turkish nationals.
Spittle-flecked nonsense.
Actually I think this sums the whole thing up.
Martin SE5
@Martin_SE5
Follow Follow @Martin_SE5
More Martin SE5 Retweeted
I’m Corbynsceptic but this is weak conspiracy theory crap. If you’ve got a smoking gun, you don’t need 2 massive PDFs to make the point. All they’ve proved is Corbyn joined a FB group and occasionally made a brief comment when someone tagged him and he got a notification. https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/971304905628635137 …
It does indeed. Clear evidence of vile antisemitism, and the loony left want to characterise this as an internal Labour war. Can you not just see this for what it is – racism?
Is this the truth David ?
Collier’s ‘guilt by tenuous association’ methodology could equally be applied to Collier himself.
Collier has been a member of a 27,000-member Facebook group called ‘International Community’ since 4 August 2016. Antisemitic and Holocaust denial content is posted in that group regularly, alongside Islamophobic material (as well as entirely innocuous pieces). I found numerous examples of hate speech there, none of which appear to have been challenged by Collier during his time in the group.
Debra R Cohen added Collier to the group. As can be seen from the example below (the screengrab with images of Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić), she has expressed genocidally anti-Muslim views in the group, which Collier doesn’t appear to have challenged either.
Stephen, even Winstanley wouldn’t stoop to that. It’s the difference between research and blatant empty propaganda. I went out of my way to discount people. I have hundreds of names attached to the group that I withheld, some I even contacted privately to nudge them about their presence. Elleanne’s strategy is to add people and then continually tag them to see if they will bite. My report makes ABSOLUTELY CLEAR from the beginning:
From Part 1 – page 40. BEFORE I talk about members:
There are even people who did share, of importance, that I did not include because it would have been an unfair attack. They did not have to enter the group to share the material. I needed specific activity inside the group, and even then in direct connected to the people who were involved in the report. I went out of my way to discount people. It kind of shows the level of your argument, you actually went out and made that nonsense a blog.
Is this true David ?
Collier’s ‘guilt by tenuous association’ methodology could equally be applied to Collier himself.
Collier has been a member of a 27,000-member Facebook group called ‘International Community’ since 4 August 2016. Antisemitic and Holocaust denial content is posted in that group regularly, alongside Islamophobic material (as well as entirely innocuous pieces). I found numerous examples of hate speech there, none of which appear to have been challenged by Collier during his time in the group.
Debra R Cohen added Collier to the group. As can be seen from the example below (the screengrab with images of Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić), she has expressed genocidally anti-Muslim views in the group, which Collier doesn’t appear to have challenged either.
Stephen, even Winstanley wouldn’t stoop to that. It’s the difference between research and blatant empty propaganda. I went out of my way to discount people. I have hundreds of names attached to the group that I withheld, some I even contacted privately to nudge them about their presence. Elleanne’s strategy is to add people and then continually tag them to see if they will bite. My report makes ABSOLUTELY CLEAR from the beginning:
From Part 1 – page 40. BEFORE I talk about members:
There are even people who did share, of importance, that I did not include because it would have been an unfair attack. They did not have to enter the group to share the material. I needed specific activity inside the group, and even then in direct connected to the people who were involved in the report. I went out of my way to discount people. It kind of shows the level of your argument, you actually went out and made that nonsense a blog.
Not that ‘Islamophobic’ nonsense again …
Bellend, does anyone actually read your pathetic blog?
Wow, you didn’t swear. Is the Rabbi round?
Right on cue, the unhinged idea that all supporters of Jewish self-determination must be Orthodox Jews.
It would seem so
https://bookburnersrus.wordpress.com/2018/03/08/source-for-the-goose-and-all-that/
24 hours into the life of a report deemed so credible as to be cited as source material for several national dailys and still no coherent response from the author’s opponents. It must seem remarkable to readers that when most people are flatly rejecting antisemitism or racial prejudice of any kind in the UK, there appears to be a small group who prefer to criticise and demean those that attempt to highlight it. Again I suspect that sensible readers gathering their own information will see this for what it is and decide for themselves who is on the right side of this argument and who most definitely is not.
I wasn’t aware there was an argument Ian. What exactly are you denying ?
Stephen Sir,
Is there any substance to the claim being made on several Blogs that the Zionist trolls behind GnasherJew, the infamous hate sock puppet Twitter account, is actually operated by the host of this Blog, namely one David Collier – its been assumed it was a few nutters masquerading as Labour Party members, but if Collier is linked to it, that’s quite substantial.
Further, a few fruit bats have invaded the Free Speech on Israel FB Group. The FB Group Collier mentions in his non-event EXCLUSIVE, I’ve never heard of, however, I’m not into FB too much and usually quite parochial in the public groups I belong too.
I am keeping my eye out for the hordes of anti-semites that Collier suggest exist, so will be looking at the Japanese Suicide Cave and recently found hidden Japanese war time tunnels where I reside. The locals who were forced to dig them were executed after the work was completed, but they are extensive and the anti-semites may be in residence there. I’ll need some caving gear though!
David is always linked to everything. He is not Gnasher, and whoever thinks he is, clearly hasn’t read the report properly. In other words, the person who made that connection is very silly and didn’t read the report.
You are always looking for antisemitism Chris. What about all that antisemitism in the report?
The reason the reports are so clinical is because it completely detaches Israel from the story. They say we conflate, so I remove that deflection. How can anyone defend this? The concentration levels of hard-core antisemitism are visibly too high to discount, which in turn makes it clear that the issue here is with Jews, and not Israel.
This has been very much the point of response David. Your reports entirely focus on antisemitism and prejudice in the UK. I imagine that there are many readers that fail to see why someone that works so hard to highlight racism and antisemitism has opponents at all. It is only when you read their posts that you realise the truer motives. As you say it is easier and more acceptable to attack Jews when you doing so under the cover of attacking Israel.
If I dislike Bedouins, should I criticise Israel, Ian?
David,
Everything you produce is politically motivated I’m afraid, you have real form Sir. Real form indeed. Still, having yet checked more formal/officail sources for race hate crimes in the UK for the period 2013-2017, your hightened rhetoric does not chime with the actualities produced by HM Government, the CPS or the English & Wales Constabularies. Indeed, the country with the lowest incident of racially motivated crime is my own, namely Wales, which came as a welcome surprise.
Do keep up the hysteria David, and as ever, its a welcome distraction to the daily grind to read this Blog, although, at least be honest about your political motivations.
Didn’t see an answer to the question there Chris. Do you want to try again. Once you put aside a few anti-Zionist Jews, 3 out of every 4 posts in that group is made by someone who shares hard-core antisemitic material. That’s an obscene level. What are your views on it?
David,
Any Blog I read and find interesting I may be inspired to comment upon, particularly if said Blog is of a political or economics nature. As I’ve never visited the FB Group you mention in this “startling account” allegedly, I can’t really comment, but your motivations personally Sir are of an extreme political nature, which is fine by me as we live in a democracy and I favour freedom of speech.
Now, your Report will be scrutinised by me on my 27hr journey to London in the coming days, and I’ll then no doubt slag it off on the Blogs I actually inhabit.
As a rule of thumb I try not to visit Blogs I deem below the belt and usually am more concerned with realities in my own, small neck of the woods, namely our crap broadband or some finds of historical interest, like hidden Japanese wartime tunnels.
With regards your continual attacks on the Left, and in particular the Labour Party, obviously my bias means I’ll always come to the defence, unless the alleged crime is so severe, and with substance, that action must be taken.
Anything else Sir?
“obviously my bias means I’ll always come to the defence, unless the alleged crime is so severe, and with substance, that action must be taken” – so tweeting blatantly antisemitic stuff is not deemed a severe offence by this lunatic ….
Leah,
Oh how I enjoy being savaged by a sheep with no teeth. As for being a ‘lunatic’, thankfully I have no mental health issues, but know many folk who do. lets keep it to fruit bats shall we.
Further, given the UK has stringent anti-racism and hate crime laws, any breech of these need to be dealt with. As no criminal laws by any of the material presented by Collier has been broken, everything else is but opinion I’m afraid. At least I’m honest in my biases. Tally ho!
If I have no teeth, what makes you imagine that you have, creep?
At least, unlike you, I have a functioning brain.
Leah,
Functioning brain!!! Please don’t make me laugh and please don’t swallow all the propaganda you seem afflicted by. As for calling me a creep, is this because i question the motives behind this Blog and rely on official Government, Department and Constabulary statistics for racist incidents, among these proven anti-semitism. Now, please go back out to the garden and continue playing in your sand pit.
Wow, the creep Chris is being sooooo mature … I am impressed.
Do fuck off, thick ignorant pillock.
Pot. Kettle.
Happy Nakba.
Leah,
You do seem to get lost in your own bollocks I’m afraid. How’s Scoffie’s Blog, not seen you posting of late, however, i do require new glasses, which may explain my ignorance on some of your more crass posts, of which, your last response is surely a clanger.
From the creep who tells me to play in the sand pit.
But idiots like Chris can never see their own vileness.
You need more than new eyeglasses.
You need a psychiatrist. One who prescribes anti-psychotic drugs to treat your psychosis.
You are wasting your time David. I
witnessed plenty of these types yesterday in the public gallery cheering on antisemitic Holocaust denier Allison Chabloz.
Just to tie this down.
What is a Holocaust Denier?
1) One who denies that the Holocaust ever happened.
2) One who denies that 6 million Jews died in it.
3) One who denies that it was only against Jews.
4) One who denies it started with Jews.
Info please.
I imagine that readers will be wondering why posters here are asking questions about Israel in response to a report about prejudice and racism in the UK. None of the mainstream news media that used this report as source material focused on Israel so I assume that like much of the other posts from opponents here it is irrelevant.
Wasn’t there reference to the Mavi Mamara, attacked by Israeli commandos in that murderous raid? Don’t think that was in the Thames.
or in sane English: boarded by Israeli soldiers when it refused to obey a lawful call to stop, after which the ‘humanitarians’ on board attacked said soldiers with murderous intent.
The said soldiers were resisted by unarmed passengers. One passenger dis-armed one of the soldiers yet did not attempt to murder the soldier but instead hid the weapon. Fully armed Israeli commandos then proceeded to kill 9 unarmed Turkish nationals using their weapons. That was legal?
The resistance was unlawful, and the passengers were armed with lots of lethal stuff, as a cursory check by anyone sane (so not you) will show at once.
Wow, these people were saints, they didn’t try to murder the soldier – I am humbled by their holiness.
The IDF action was lawful, you pathetic idiot.
Guns? Grenades? Rubber bullets? Automatic weaponry? IDF issue?
You sad sad creep.
Nakba? Yep.
Neutralized terrorists? Yep.
IDF issue.
Old Chinese saying
Never bring knives to a gunfight
Indiana Jones vs Swordsman – 26 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs
That’s what I call hate speech. Quite vile, and it ought to be moderated out.
I was referring to the little rhyme about “Paleswine” at the beginning of this thread.
Jon, Where have you called for moderating out
– slurs and calls for death against Jews and Israel
– various epithets against Jews
– various conspiracy theories linking Jews to nazis, ignoring real links between Muslims (Grand Mufti) and nazis and the fact that mein kampf is a best seller in the Arab world
Calls for the destruction of Israel?
You know, like Free Speech for me, but not for thee?
If you are too sensitive, I suggest you get off the Internet and spend your time in a progressive quilting circle next to Red Ken
I can’t reasonably be expected to moderate it out. I can oppose it, I can not agree with it, but I have made an open declaration to allow as much anti-Israel rhetoric as I can swallow. I have stood by that solidly for three years and some comments towards me have been extremely nasty. Given that, it would be extremely unfair of me to delete every vile comment the other way. Where I have seen something, I tend to comment and ask people to keep it cleaner. It doesn’t help anyone. Given what is occurring elsewhere, we have everyone in a basket here and it is relatively calm and should be appreciated for what it is.
Thanks for supporting Free Speech and exposing hypocrisy in British, “progressive”, socialist, “anti-Zionist”, anti-war” circles.
Edward. Why ‘swine’?
Well, for an Israel supporter David is quite tolerant. JewishNews doesn’t publish 50% of non-supportive posts and Melanie Phillips blocks anyone who doesn’t fawn over her every word.
Micheal,
Yes, we must pay David some regard here, which i’m humble enough to offer.
With regards Phillips, I think she lost the plot many years ago. Indeed, I can remember her writing in The Guardian for quite a while. Anything that flows through her quill or keyboard can usually be trashed, alas she gets paid for the drivel she produces. A hint for David perhaps?
David already exhorts his supporters to fund him, Chris.
Yes, I expected a thicko like you to be unable to understand M.P.
Edward, can you stop with this one please. It was the top comment, and it completely misrepresents the site. Given the religious context, the use of the ‘swine’ or the pig can be read in a really nasty way and doesn’t do me, you or anyone any favours. I saw a comment that criticised me for leaving it, and the more I consider the use of ‘swine’, the more uncomfortable it makes me.
on second thoughts, I deleted it. Please don’t use the term again. I don’t think it is acceptable, here or elsewhere.
I can be tolerant of it from their side – I have no need to be tolerant of it from ours.
David, you may have noticed that the reach of your report now extends beyond the mainstream press and into the very bowels of Wheel-tappers and Shunters readership. You even get a name check.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-probes-claim-anti-semitic-12150951?utm_source=google_news&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=google_news&utm_content=sitemap
No doubt their editorial agenda is altogether more wholesome in the eyes of your opponents.
The Mirror is a loony tunes of ‘Labour’ worship.
“A spokesman for the Labour leader added: “Jeremy Corbyn and the whole Labour Party condemns and campaigns against anti-Semitism in all its forms.” -LMAO.
wow Ian, the Mirror, that’s a first for me. Thx for bringing that one to my attention.
Seems David has made it in the world of fiction.
What kind of “fiction”?
9/11, Londons 7/7, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Manchester, Brussels airport, Lee Rigby, Daniel Pearl, Theo Van Gogh, Danish cartoonist of some guy named Moohammed, Salman Rushdie, Boston Marathon, Orlando, San Bernardino, Beslan, Mumbai, Nairobi, Bali, Madrid, Sydney, Copenhagen, Pan Am 103, Sneaker bomber, Underwear bomber, Times Square SUV bomber, Fort Hood, Garland, Nice France, Westminster bridge, Chelsea section of Manhattan, execution of gays, stoning girls to death, FGM, dress codes for women and men,
Checkpoints at every airport in the world to screen passengers???
David, or should I call you Dr Goebbels?. It is clear to me that you and your Zionist cohorts are getting desperate. You are clearly grasping at straws to discredit decent people who only want to see justice for fellow human beings and to stop an evil regime from orchestrating more wars. You on the other hand are defending a racist criminal state. You do this while Israel quietly gets on with the plan to annex area C of the Palestinian territories. Hitler would be proud. Shame on you. You also fail to recognize scholarly debate when you see it. You’re acting very much like a 16th Century Papal emissary attempting to quash any form of dissent from Vatican supremacy. Grow up.
LMAO. Not a bad one as a false flag to show up the unhinged aspect of Jew-baiting. Perhaps a bit too obvious.
Oh, here goes Leah again with her famous ‘Jew Baiting’ quip. Never mind the fucking murders of innocents Leah, lets focus on ‘Jew Baiting’ instead (the aggressor playing the victim game again). Lift the needle love as you are trapped in a groove and the noise being emitted is most grinding. But hey, lets ignore the crimes of Israel and focus on a shite FB Group that no bugger had really heard about until Colliers supposed world shattering exposition, one politically motivated to tar the leader of the Labour Party, who funnily enough, expresses sympathy to the Palestinian’s. Great stuff ain’t it Leah?
The Laboor Party is self-destructing.
What was once “Progressive” is now REGRESSIVE, Reactionary, Fascist, Racist, Islamist, Terrorist supporting (hezbola, hamass, 7/7).
So nobody above is comparing Israel to the Nazis, you swivel-eyed lunatic?
Oh, dear, ‘tarring’ the great leader. So no ‘Labour’ politicians have ever ever ever made antisemitic comments? Really, creep?
David, Your blog is attracting the kind of people, like Mike Sumner, who are still upset that their side LOST WW2.
Mikey, If Israel, Zionism, were the problem, then Arabs/Muslims would be living in peace and respect with NON-Zionists, NON-Israelis, NON-Jews. Are they????
Muslims can’t even get along with fellow Arabs/Muslims. So how do you expect Arabs/Muslims to get along with Infidels?
Edward,
Your comment is amusing, particularly given the fact of three European Crusades to plunder the Holy Lands. nice folk the Crusaders, they killed anything that moved, similar in fact to the IDF& IOF.
Further, and if its not lost your attention, a rapprochement is occurring between Iran & Iraq. Don’t think Israel is none too keen on this, never mind the bloody Yanks.
What years were the Crusades?
What year is it today?
Imperialist Fascist Iran is on the march to Mecca. The ayatoolahs want to take it.
1,400 years of Intra-Islam battles aren’t anything to sneeze at.
Sure, sure, and the Arabs never invaded MENA and Europe, murdering and plundering as they went.
You really are a first-class fucktard.
How ignorant you are Edward. You don’t know anything about me. Who the fuck are you to say “their side lost WW2”. My contention is that Britain certainly did not win WW2, neither did Germany, rather it was avdisaster of epic proportions for most of Europe and the Far East. The USA & USSR “won” and then we had the cold war (which seems to be re-emerging. Somewhere a great folly has happened. The treatment of post WWI Germany may be the reason. Britain’s support of anti-semitic Poland another. Hitler’s support for Zionism another. (without whose mutual support Hitler would have been finished).
What a racist thing to say when you lump all arabs/muslims together. Like European white Christians have always got along….? What about the Reformation? The 30 Years War. WWI & II. How ignorant of you to imply that all Arabs are the same. They have their differences just like we do.
If you support Israel then you are supporting a criminal racist state.
Sumners Eve, The Allies WON WW2 when your friends agreed to SURRENDER, UNCONDITIONALLY to the US, UK and SU.
Now why would a whiney “progressive” fascist like you support a Racist, Criminal Islamofascist death cult that has, and continues to murder so many innocent people?
Mike, if you don’t mind, I’d rather you didn’t call me Dr Goebbels. My mother is into Genealogy, and like all Jewish families, we have chunks missing from the tree. I find it distasteful that you choose to reference a Nazi when you talk to me. Putting the question of Israel and the Palestinians aside, as I often do when I am talking to people who understand little of the context and receive their news from ihatejewsanddontcareabouthetruth.com, I have to say I am not the one who fails to recognise scholarly debate. I had the misfortune of having to watch one of the few ‘debates’ you managed to find an opponent for, and because of the research, I had to sit and listen to the whole damn thing. The more I come across what you write, the more you remind me of Adrian Mole, and his continual insistence on regarding himself as an intellectual.
Your intelligence is limited, you have a bee in your bonnet over the Holocaust, and you are trying to come across as if you know something, when it is quickly and brutally clear that you don’t. You found a few people who tap into your twisted vision, but remain utterly incapable of placing those ideas into coherent thought. What’s left is just an idiot muttering into a computer screen.
For those interested, the link is here: I suggest not bothering to listen to the first ten minutes. You’ll get a grasp of what is going on quite quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AylHmyALmEk
Lol. What a jumped up little toad you are. Yes, tell people not to listen to the first 10 minutes, that way they won’t get the correct introduction and spirit of the discussion. I’d be happy to debate this subject with you any day of the week but I suspect you would be too scared to. You’re probably one of those those bigots who regards all of history open to examination and revision….except this one thing; in other words a hypocrite. How narrow minded of you. Even Raul Hilberg revised his views (and brought the wrath of the Jewish lobby on his head). If everything about the official Holocaust history is true then why are we not allowed to even discuss it? Thanks for the plug though David. Hopefully people will watch this debate and realize just what the so called “deniers” are saying, i.e. that they do not deny the holocaust but rather question some of the details. If you think that’s a crime then why don’t you fuck off and go live in Germany where it is a crime. People who watch will discover that David Irving has never written a book about the holocaust (my opponent thought he had. Just shows how dumb one looks when one assumes….). You will look dumb too.
Anyway David. Well done for focusing on what really matters: Don’t worry a toss about about the millions of Palestinians whose lives have been destroyed, the hundreds of children killed and maimed in the 2014 onslaught and continue to be killed every week. Just prioritize protecting the feelings of a minority group. And I do NOT advocate their feelings should be ignored, on the contrary the rights of ALL minority groups should be respected.
As for you ad hominem attacks on me, how the fuck do you know anything about my “intelligence”. I’ve been studying the history of the Palestine conflict for the past 20 years. I’ve read just about every book published. What have you read?
Your case is wearing thin and this pathetic charge of anti-semitism just proves to me you are grasping at straws. As Socrates said: When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the Loser!
Mike, please excuse the direct intrusion into your dialogue with David. Your contribution is helpful and I hope you will forgive my presumption but I have circulated it widely. The purpose of this was to demonstrate that when reports of this type are produced and garner responses like you own they reinforce with absolute certainty, the Zionist dream in the Jewish State. Thank you.
That’s Ok Ian. I hope you’re being genuine though. I’m always open to reasoned debate. If you are genuine then I apologize for my occasional bad language in the above. Can’t help being human…
absolutely agree with this 100%. Nothing reinforces my Zionist outlook more than this research.
Zionism = Racism. Thanks for clarifying your position David.
Does that level of distortion count for an argument where you come from Mike. Good to know.
No racist element in Zionism, Dave?
No racist element in Islamofascism, Socialism?
Mikey, How could you be so disingenuously ignorant?
No racism in Zionism, Edward?
No racist elements in Fascist Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Sudan, Sweden, Norway, UK, Scotland, France, Socialism, Islamism, Michael?
No racism in terrorist palestinianism, Mike?
Thick, ignorant, deranged. That’s Mike in a nutshell, as embodied in this moronic crap.
Here’s another of my debates David. I’m arguing the opposite side of the challenge:. Hope your readers will be enlightened.
https://www.qallout.com/debate/3693-israel-was-justified-in-launching-the-june-1967-war
And another. I like this one best I think. Please do try to challenge my facts…if you’re up to it David.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-0kldIH9hU
The title of the debate is: Israel was founded on terrorism. In it I demonstrate how David Ben Gurion (for one) planned to take over Palestine by first destroying 100 Palestinian villages (plan Dalet), and ethnically cleansing their populations.
Well that is a lot of twaddle Mike. Plan Dalet was only put together in spring of 48, and that was in response to heavy casualties on the roads experienced by the Haganah due to irregular Arab forces that had illegally entered British Palestine to kill Jews. History isn’t what you want it to be Mike. How do you blame a plan from Spring, on the outbreak of hostilities 4 months earlier?
Thanks, always good to hear alternative viewpoints.
Hi Mike, I watched just 5 minutes of this. Realised that this kid had read Oren’s book and all his ‘knowledge’ was gleaned from that book. He started to mumble and flounder. I couldn’t watch any more of it. I began to be embarrassed for him.
Mike, I think only you could consider debating the origins of the six day war as ‘the other side of the challenge’ to Holocaust Denial.
do you mind toning down your insults towards me please Mike. You are free to comment here (unlike my lack of freedom in posting on sites you inhabit), but it is my blog, so I at least expect your responses to be free of vulgarity. After all, if I can talk to someone who promotes Holocaust denial even relatively politely, I am sure I can expect that person to treat me with respect. And I have no interest in straw men arguments about Palestinians either. When you have spent as long as I did inside Palestinian towns, helping build businesses and bridges (you know actual pro-palestinian actions rather than just ‘hate the jew’ stuff), perhaps you could criticise. I can also assure you it is highly unlikely you have read more than I have, seeing as you (in another post) start to go on about Plan Dalet in some type of conspiratorial manner. Biting into the concept of a conspiracy, and then reading as much as you can on it, to reinforce your understanding of that argument, is not healthy or productive. It would certainly leave you ‘uber’ vulnerable when you come up against someone who has read both sides and formed a historicity fully supported by additional research in The National Archives. But hey. what do I know.
As for the Holocaust, they are many excellent scholars working on and questioning elements of the Holocaust. Here too, you jumped on an outlier, and read up on that to reinforce the conspiracy you have already bought into. I’ve read, I’ve read arguments against the revision, and as the person you were debating with so quickly pointed out, all the people involved seem to have an ulterior motive (their hatred of Jews). You quickly discarded this as irrelevant. And that says everything about the way you ‘study’. Their hatred of Jews isn’t irrelevant, it is everything, because it means they are tainted, and their vision skewed by their motivations. It is like reading a book on evolution written by a vile racist, because sure enough, there will be an element in his theory that accounts for why he thinks black people are ‘lesser human beings’ (and racists actually do this – I know, because I clicked on the links on Palestine Live). It’ll be pretty, and all wrapped up in scientific jargon, but it will still be racist crap. Do I think people should investigate whether ‘black people are lesser human beings’ – no I do not – because it is a vile racist piece of crap, that only racists get involved in.
Plan Dalet?
Benny Morris interview 2004
What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion order. Is that right?
“Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948, the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population. Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July 1948].”
Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?
“From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer. There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population] transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created.”
Ben-Gurion was a “transferist”?
“Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist.”
Did you just not address my post by spamming an entirely irrelevant interview? I have been in contact with Morris. Have you?
750K “palestinians” fled Israel.
800K Jews fled Arab Muslim countries, in fear for their lives.
It’s a wash in population transfers, both sides should be compensated and get on with their lives.
Meanwhile Muslims are slaughtering Christians in Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Algeria.
You chose to ignore inconvenient facts. OK by me, comrade.
The Palestinians wish to go back to the homes they were driven from. The Jews, living in their homes, don’t wish to return to theirs.
A Palestinian in Israel is safer than an Infidel in some Islamist SH*THOLE, the type of Islamist SH*THOLE that the refugees are leaving and heading for Eurabia and its Benefits.
BTW, How many mosques were in Jerusalem when Jesus walked the streets????
There’s a lot of points there Michael. Suffice it to say that Plan Dalet is a matter of historical fact and was put into operation. I’m not sure whether you’re excusing it or not. Population transfer is contrary to International Law in any event.
There was a Population Transfer between India and Pakistan in 1947/48 too.
There’s a Population Transfer going on TODAY between Syria and Eurabia – There are no Arabs dropping Barrel bombs and using poison gas on the UK, for the moment – but there are Arabs murdering and raping Brits (Rotherham)
David. I will tone down my insults against you if you desist in your schoolboy assumptions about me. I am not “promoting holocaust denial”. Genuine denial is a ridiculous notion. I merely say there is no such thing as a SERIOUS denier, i.e. that the revisionsts do not deny it. If you are too stupid to grasp that then you’re dumber than I thought. As to the “racist” element, I don’t deny Irving (for instance) is a racist, but that is another subject. Zionists, like Nazis are also racists so count yourself among them. As to the Jew-hating thing, it is interesting to know that Irving, Zundel et al had no hatred for Jews before their revisionist work but experienced such treatment toward them by Jews that made them hateful. How would you feel if you received hate mail and break-ins from Arabs? Did you know that David Irving lost one of his daughters? He subsequently received a black wreath with a sarcastic comment attached. Nice eh? As to Irving’s assertion that “More people died on the back seat of Sen Kennedy’s Car..than in those gas chambers at Auschwitz” He was pointing out that those buildings are fake, a fact later substantiated by the Auschwitz authorities themselves. That is not to say it disproves gassing, merely that tourists were being misled. Why should we have been lied to over that? Let’s just have the truth please.
A, Zionism is not racism. Anyway, according to you, Zionists can hate Arabs because Arab actions have made them hateful towards them. That is your logic not mine. You would justify me being Islamophobic because I receive threats from one of them. Do you actually listen to yourself? This is Nazi talk. ‘Look what these people have done to our country, we are right to hate them’.
Why did you say that if someone hates Jews, it should not discount his work as a Holocaust Revisionist? Why do you think that Nazis seem to be the type of people that want to attack the historicity surrounding a horrific crime against Jews? And what do you think their motives are?
If Zionism is not racism, please tell us what it is David. We are all ears…
Modern Zionism is the national movement of the Jewish people. It was brought about as Europe began to seek a solution to their ‘Jewish problem’, and it was proposed by some Jews as the best answer, and a fulfillment of their rights as ‘a people’. Even putting aside all ideas of nationalism, from the perspective of its origins, it is as racist as the idea of a home for battered women is sexist. There were Jews that disagreed – mainly the Bundists. That idea perished in the Holocaust in a Europe Bundists had argued was safe. Had the UK opened its doors to British Palestine as they should have done, millions of Jews would have been saved. Zionism was a movement to save the Jews from extermination (although at the time they just thought that meant persecution and occasional Pogroms) at the hands of those who saw Jews as alien. It is very difficult to see this as racism.
Lol. Of course it is racism if the State you want to create firstly exterminates or excludes its indiginous population and then makes one (its own) ethnic population supreme within that state. Isn’t that similar to what Hitler wanted for Germany?
Sumners Ever, Has the population of Jews in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Algeria, risen or fallen over the last 70 years?
How many Muslims were there in Jerusalem when Jesus walked the streets? How many Jews?
Happy Nakba!
How ignorant of you to assume you have read more than I. How do you know? Are you psychic? As for Plan Dalet, how is that “conspiratorial”? It is a matter of recorded history. My point was that since Ben Gurion was the leader of the JA (Jewish Agency) and therefore the de facto official representative of The Jewish Nation, his plan led to the creation of the Israeli State. That proves Israel was created by terrorism. Are you proud to know your first PM was a terrorist? How about the others, Shamir and Begin? Please advise.
there are too many assumptions in your logic and you answer no questions yourself – why do you skip over questions? Plan Dalet is not conspiratorial, just as JFK was assasinated, Charlie Hebdo happened and so on. The event itself is not the conspiracy. The conspiracy is how people take a planned military response – Plan D (after plan A, B & C), and make it something that it wasn’t. It was a military plan put together to address a strategic problem on the roads that the Jews needs to keep clear so as to deliver supplies to remote villages. The Jews had been given the right to have their state, the Arabs opposed that right, civil war broke out, and within that struggle the Jews devised a military plan to control the area before Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded with their armies. How on earth is that ‘terrorism’? The alternative was complete destruction. Can you imagine what would have happened had the Jews lost and do you have a better idea as to what the Jews should have done, 8 weeks before 5 armies invaded and whilst they couldn’t even supply their own villages because Arab irregulars were destroying their convoys?
David. Just to address your question “how is that terrorism”. Are you aware that Sir Richard Catling, deputy head of the Special Branch of the Criminal Investigations Division in Jerusalem between 1944 -47 left a Top Secret file in the Rhodes House archives of the Bodleian Libraries, Oxford University. In that file is a memorandum labelled “Memorandum on the Participation of The Jewish National Institutions in Palestine in Acts of Lawlessness and Violence” , dated July 31st 1947 (almost a year before official Statehood, and before the November 47 Partition Plan). This and other documents provide evidence of the Jewish Agency’s intent to take full control of the land of Palestine and on the ruthlessness of their operations against the said inhabitants including their removal, transfer, expulsion, and killing.
The Memorandum goes further. As a result of its investigations the Department itemizes six areas of subversive activities undertaken by the Jewish Agency against the British Mandate Government, and I quote:
“a. Maintenance of a secret army and espionage system
b. Smuggling, theft and manufacture of arms
c. Illegal immigration.
d. Violence and Civil Disobedience.
e. Seditious and hostile propaganda
f. Encroachment upon the civil rights of Jewish citizens (Jews of dissenting opinions were intimidated to get them into line).
Jewish national institutions have placed the legally constituted framework at the disposal of the para-military organizations” Unquote
The figures: I refer to a 10 year period 1937 to 1947.
Palestinian Arab civilians killed by Jewish Terrorist gangs: 1030 plus many thousands more wounded.
British Servicemen & civilians killed by Jewish Terrorist gangs: 135 plus many more wounded.
Is that terrorism David? Please advise.
again, you are not debating, nor discussing, you are skipping anything that doesn’t suit your argument and trying to pull me around like a dog. Can you please provide a source for your figures, so I can address them please, preferably an online link?
duh, I gave you the source in my text, namely Rhodes House archives of the Bodleian Libraries, Oxford University.. I’m sure you can get over there. Anyway I notice you haven’t accepted my debate yet. I’m free most weekday evenings after 7pm (except Monday).
I will check the source provided. Can you explain why the total casualty figures for the period are far lower than those you suggest are mentioned in that particular source? A standard Wiki search shows recorded numbers are much lower. Is it possible he also included Arabs killed by their own and British forces, and the document meaning has been distorted?
no response?
Sumner Eve, Happy Nakba!
Today Muslim terrorists kill Brits IN the UK.
7/7, Manchester, Lee Rigby, Westminster bridge, bomb passenger planes like Pan Am 103, run rape gangs in Rotherham targeting Infidel girls,…
Should we look at Muslim terrorist attacks OUTSIDE the UK?
Who the fuck do you think you are? How dare you denigrate the memory of the Nakba? Would you do the same with the Holocaust? No. And what the fuck have “muslims” to do with Palestine? You racist fucking moron.
Sumners Ever, I think you don’t like me. ;-(
I notice that I have tears streaming down my face, tears of Laughter.
I LOVE THE NAKBA! (the Nakba being the failure of 5 attacking arab armies, none of which was the army of an existing “palestine”, to continue the Holocaust and Moohammed jihad against the Jews of Medina) and massacre Jews)
GO F*CK YERSELF you dumb fascist clown.
The Arab armies that invaded did so only after the Jewish Terrorist gangs destroyed 100 villages and ethnically cleansed around 350,000 Arabs. Just like Britain & France went to the aid of Poland in 1939, the Arabs had allies too (or are they not entitled to help each other?). Most people don’t actually know about this, they believe that “poor little Israel” just wanted to live in peace when those nasty Arabs attacked them. So, The Zionists were the aggressors and as such deserved to be stopped (just like the Nazis). In the end the aggressor prevailed and took a far greater portion of land than had been allocated them under res. 181. Many prominent Jews outside of Palestine were appalled at the behavior of their compatriots. Rightly so!
The Arab irregular forces were already operating inside British Palestine by January 1948, a policy already having been set in place in Cairo about *two weeks* after the partition plan, when the ideas of destroying any Jewish nation were discussed. You are writing history backwards to suit your argument. The armies themselves could not enter until May, because the British were there. I am not arguing for a ‘virgin birth’, and I fully believe (within reason) the Jewish side took advantage of opportunities as they were presented with them. As any side would. I also believe that in a brutal civil war, mistakes happen and individual units can over-step, even badly, but none of this is relevant to the discussion at hand – which is you demonising them and taking everything out of historical context, because you need to pretend that the truly problematic and violent side, the Arabs, were innocent victims of a brutal racist movement. That story you are spinning is not founded in historicity. The Jews were fighting for their survival, and the Arabs did want to destroy them. The end goals of both being
a – Jews – a state they can call home
b – Arab – the destruction of the Jewish idea and probably the destruction or deportation of most of the Jews there
Those are the outlines of the goals of the two sides. You seek to demonise A. Given the raw reality, I would call that poppycock.
I am still waiting for a link to a source for your figures
5 Arab armies didn’t help your so-called “palestinians”, it was a hoped for land rush so that Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia could expand their territories.
Did Jews live in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan before 1947? WHERE ARE THEY TODAY??????
The Israelis proved that Jews CAN fight and WIN.
Happy NAKBA!
How many prominent Muslims are appalled by Muslim terrorism that murders people ALL OVER THE WORLD?
Where is the Majority of 1.5 Billion Muslims to fight ISIS, Al Qada, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Al Nusra, Assad, Fascist Iran? It should be EASY to muster a couple of million Good Muslims to destroy terrorist Muslims.
Indeed Edward. He is supporting the ‘Virgin Nakba’ myth.
How dare you. That’s like saying “the Jews had it coming”. Why is it ok for anyone with an ounce of self-respect to say such a thing? You’re clearly a Nakba denier.
what on earth did I say that annoyed you so much. I thought you wanted the ‘truth’? We must all speak the truth and cut out the political corectedness… isn’t that your line? What happened to your consistency?
Sumners Eve, I don’t deny your “Nakba”, I celebrate it like people celebrated the end of WW2 and defeat of Euro fascism and Imperial Japan.
I celebrate your Defeats. Your personal Nakba.
David,
I watched the above video out of curiosity. The fellow Siegfried on the right spoke sensibly and intelligently, and I can’t believe he spent all that time listening to the babbling nonsense of the guy on the left (I can’t believe I listened to all his nonsense too). Was that the Mike you were responding to? If so, your statement above sums up Mike rather well.
“…but remain utterly incapable of placing those ideas into coherent thought. What’s left is just an idiot muttering into a computer screen.”
Wow, what a fool.
indeed. And yes it was him. He actually considers himself something of an ‘intellectual’. Shocking wasn’t it. I am in half a mind to offer him a debate on 1948, just to expose just how little people like this actually know.
Let’s do that debate David. Anytime you like. Tell you what I’ll create that debate right now. You can click on the link that takes you too it, join the debating platform. We’ll then agree a time and do it. OK?
Just sorted it: I’ll put the link below. I hope the title will cover things though I’d like to start around the end of November 1947 when Israel’s ethnic cleansing began. You’ll need to sign up to the debating site. You’ll also need a microphone (don’t use a built-in laptop mic as one gets distortion). Ok David. Ready when you are:
https://www.qallout.com/debate/4696-israels-1948-war-was-a-war-of-aggression-on-its-part/record
oh please quit the bravado, I’m an old hand at all this. We can have a perfectly reasonable debate here, and if you do want me to talk to you about it, rather than a public video, I am more than willing to meet up for a chat. We can talk all about 1948, and I will even listen to your ‘tales of the Holocaust’.
Ok David. I understand you’re too frightened to do the debate. People like you often chicken out; reason being it is recorded and published on youtube for all to see for the rest of time. All your shortcomings will be laid bare. If you’d rather meet in private then sure, let’s meet up. Where do you suggest?
Hey tell you what David. Meet me tomorrow (Sunday) in the lounge of The Dolphin Hotel, St Ives, Cambridgeshire. say…3pm? It’s nice and quiet in there. I’ll be wearing a long black coat. I don’t have any tales of the holocaust I’m afraid, neither do I have any fixed ideas on the subject. I merely want to know the truth and have not been brainwashed into believing things that make no scientific or documented sense. Let me know if you can make that appointment. If not then I’m free for a meetup there almost any Sunday. cheers.
I cannot do tomorrow, and Cambridgeshire isn’t my locale, but next week is a distinct possibility. If that works, lets pencil it in.
Do you agree to a search, including cavity search – all done by the Mossad and MI5.
Hey, Sumners Eve, I know your type. Watching movies about WW2, rooting for the Nazis to come out on top, and being disappointed that the Nazis ALWAYS LOSE in the end.
And you know who controls Hollywood… wink, wink.
Try watching Seinfeld, especially “The Limo” episode. You’ll like it.
Mike I am not frightened to do anything, and I told you, stop with the bravado… If I challenge Pappe to a debate, his refusal to do so isn’t necessarily borne out of cowardice. I am not going to take you seriously unless you stop with the childish behaviour.
I missed your previous post (my apologies). OK , let’s pencil in for the following Sunday then. We’ll confirm here nearer the date.
How about a meeting at the BBC, after all go through the BBC offices checkpoints?
OK with the Mossad attending your meeting?
Well I see you have deleted Edward’s hate speech comment (don’t worry though, I took a screenshot first). Strange that it took you 2 days to delete it…And you haven’t banned him either…strange again! Want to do that debate on Sunday next? Same time, same place…
Mike – will you drop your attitude or leave. Either – or. I really do not mind which. I really have absolutely no requirement to permit people who promote Holocaust ‘revision’ (read denial) to comment on this site at all, let alone be courteous with them. Whatever screenshots you have or have not taken mean nada, because you hang out with a load of rabid antisemites, who at the end of the day, need to hide in the shadows. The comments are nothing to do with me, and weak attempts at guilt by association ARE THE ONLY THINGS YOU HAVE. How sad is that, that I can produce a 280 page dossier, and you are left creeping around trying to make something look other than it is? Me – I am a liberal, and an anti-racist – you hang out in a sewer. My work gets put into print that can be distributed in major news outlets, yours has to hide away in dark places for fear of social rejection. The fact you have spent years in a forum where Jews are called demons, and suddenly think you have a right to come here and criticise is outstanding. I do not have to answer to someone who feels comfortable in a forum run by people who share Nazi material, nor do I have to take you seriously. So either drop the crappy pretentious attitude and accept your are ONLY HERE because I am too nice a guy, or you can just stop commenting. It’s your choice. Either way, I don’t give a damn – but there is NO third option available to you here.
David. It seems I can’t reply to the comment you left below this one. Strange…
You seem to make a lot of assumptions about me; about “who I hang out with” for instance. How do you know who I hang out with? And if you feel that anyone who questions history must therefore be a nazi or ansisemite then you really are one dumb fuck. Your disassociation of hate speech on your blog rings a little hollow when you have accused Elleanne of precisely the same thing. You expect to disassociate yourself yet do not excuse her. How hypocritical. Would you have deleted it if I hadn’t pointed it out to you? Do you expect Elleanne to monitor her page 24/7? Anyway, enough excuses David. You said you “had a good mind to debate me” so when do you want to do this? Tell you what, I’ll even pay your travelling expenses (within reason, say up to £100). I’m all for a polite, gentlemanly debate. So, are you a man of integrity or just a bullshitter? Sunday next, 3pm, same place.Postcode for satnav PE27 5EP. Hope to see you then.
It isn’t strange – there is a limit to the number of nested comments. stop seeing conspiracies.
I released a detailed report with about 150 names. Those people who personally shared antisemitic material and public figures who PUBLICLY deny the existence of that material even though they clearly interacted closely with those that share it or had discussed its presence in PL. Elleanne Green is the central figure of the group and has herself posted over 100 such items. None of this has anything to do with me, or this blog.
It boils down to this. I listed 150 names out of a membership of 3280. I had lots of antisemitic posters I didn’t make public because as I MAKE CLEAR IN THE REPORT, it wasn’t about that. That means using my strict and professional standards that 3130 people were deserving of privacy, consideration and the benefit of the doubt. If I apply your standards I should immediately release all 3280 names. Is this not the case? Do you think I should release the full member list?
I don’t give a toss over how many names you want to release David. I just want you to put your money where your mouth is and show up next week. I watched your youtube thing where you talk your racist claptrap about Palestinian refugees. It’s quite disgusting. In fact it’s “sickening to listen to” (sound familiar). You’re a lightweight. you’re clearly used to talking to your sycophantic Zionist fans who will clap your every word no matter how vacuous. If you think you’re up to a proper debate then I’m here. If not then I’ll assume you’re just full of horse shit, like so many of your type.
Nothing racist in that video at all far from it. The Palestinians are most certainly victims, and especially those locked away in camps in places like Lebanon. It’s a shame your Geo-political awareness of the region is so low, that anything which doesn’t suit your world vision is labelled as racist. I am for the people living in places like Ramallah – you are not, as my video so clearly explains. Racist? My word. And light weight? You’re kidding. My publisher doesn’t think so – and sure enough, hopefully you’ll be able to stock my book soon enough – take it down from your shelf and read it/ You’ll learn loads.
Why don’t you care if I release names? I won’t because that isn’t who I am. Although both of us know, that if it were the other way around – you guys would have dumped the whole load. You’re like that — vindictive, especially when it comes to Jews.
And I told you that you can stop with the grandstanding. If I challenge someone with a far greater grasp of historical knowledge than me to a debate and he ignores me – it doesn’t mean he is full of anything, it just means he doesn’t think wasting his time on me is worth it. ‘Hey Benny Morris, be down my local at 12pm on Saturday or I will know you are a coward’. I mean really, how old are you? Remember what you are and where I found you. As it happens, I am more than happy to do a debate, because I have something to gain from it. Hear, near me. London, Stamford Hill. There is no reason I should have to travel to Northampton just to whip the backside of a pathetic internet mouse who hangs around in antisemitic forums and thinks hard-core antisemitism shouldn’t discount the work of someone researching the Holocaust.
Sumners Eve, How about you arrive, wheeled out like Hannibal Lecter? I think you might be rabid.
Or you could go to Gaza and have your meeting on the Israeli side, after you go through the checkpoint.
I actually don’t consider myself an intellectual (don’t remember saying that). again you’re assuming. let’s do that debate. Should be easy for you if you’re so well-read.
Get the BBC to host it. Should be interesting.
No I won’t stock your crappy book thank you David. Reason being I only stock quality books. Sorry about that. I can only think you’re such a conceited piece of shit who thinks he knows everything you can’t even imagine other people may have read more than you. You make the most puerile and ignorant of assumptions about me that aren’t even worthy of a reply. How do you know your knowledge is greater than mine? Got a crystal ball? Put your money where your mouth is you jumped up little weakling. You are clearly just another bullshitter too scared to debate a serious opponent. How weak and silly you look. If you don’t want to travel here then accept my on-line debate. Do you want the link again?
I’ve seen your online debating. I fell asleep in between the pauses. Trouble is, I know the way conspiracy theorists work. They have a few out of context documents that they produce to ‘prove’ something they don’t actually prove. Doesn’t work well on camera, where someone can be left arguing against something that isn’t real and they haven’t seen. Works well for people like you of course, because it isn’t based in the real world and doesn’t have to stand up to real scrutiny. More than happy to meet up, where I can explain to you exactly how you have misused the document you present, but will do so near me. You clearly fail to understand how each player carries his own bias. It’s a basic error of wannabee historians who pick carefully selected elements from a pyramid of documentation and say ‘look – this is the real truth’. That’s pretty much what Suarez did. He could read a document and take the one sentence that supported him, even if the rest of it contradicted his argument. It is what Morris suggests that Pappe does. I mean Pappe creates the secret ‘consultancy’ and makes it sound virtually ‘Elderesque’. Conspiracy nonsense really. Consider it the offer of a free lesson from someone who most definitely knows more about the Mandate and civil conflict than you do. Face it, a couple of days ago you had no idea irregulars had infiltrated into the Mandate area in early 1948. I mean come on, that’s like basic.
Lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb_uOBX7GW8
Sumners Ever, There already is a Two-State Solution you ignorant douchebag.
Israel and Jordan.
once again, you understand nothing about what has happened to the Palestinians if you think there is any racism at all in that video.
Try this for David’s true racist opinions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb_uOBX7GW8
Melanie Phillips AKBAR!
http://www.melaniephillips.com/
There is nothing racist there, it is totally supportive of the Palestinians. 100%.
Looks like Corbyn’s attack dogs have been called into action. You really hit a sore spot David. Now Guido has posted your incredible research
https://order-order.com/2018/03/07/corbyns-posts-in-anti-semitic-facebook-group/
Norm, anti-Zionism is not being against an Israeli state, but an Israel run by Zionists.
News to Norm, obviously. Write it down, Norm.
Go to Gaza and offer yourself as a Human Shield.
Hamass needs target practice.
Oh Edward, you can do better than that. May i remind you some people actually took this advice and tried reaching Gaza via a flotilla of boats. Said boats were attacked and those aboard this humanitarian venture prevented from reaching Gaza, prevented by Israeli naval vessels. So, your advice is bollocks.
‘humanitarian venture’ – ROFL. You really are unhinged.
Hamass needed more Useful Idiots for Human Shields? Good.
All the ship had to do was present itself as travelers do at airport checkpoints all over the world for screening.
Bollocks? Humanitarian venture? Bollox.
Do tell us what ‘Zionist’ means, pathetic pillock.
Leah,
In your instance it, that is Zionist, means BIGOT and fucking idiot.
Of course I can direct you to the relevant page in the English Oxford Dictionary. Alas, allegedly doing so would be construed as anti-semitism by a hasbara troll such as your self.
How’s Scoffie by the way, I keep asking in light of his far right racists friends being sent to jail this week, must be harrowing for him. I mean all this guilt by association, and my God he has some associations on the far right. And still, Collier refuses to severe their relationship or denounce his bigotry.
Chris, You are just a harmless Sociopath with anger issues.
GFY
Edward,
“Sociopath”, that’s a strong word and totally inaccurate, I do have issues with ‘sock puppets’ and cowards who prefer not to represent their views personally, i., at least have the courtesy to use their real name, which, like many, you don’t do. And this applies to both sides of the divide I’m afraid.
Still good deflection, although not sure about anger issues, its opposition to HYSTERIA I have in spades.
Looks like I touched a nerve pal.
Chris Rogers = John Smith
Which works better for you? Talk therapy or anti-psychotic drugs?
The screeching hysterical thick ignorant bigot Chris calls ME a bigot and an idiot … talk about lack of self-awareness …
Well David has been Emporer for a day or two.
Unfortunately the Emporer has no clothes
https://bookburnersrus.wordpress.com/2018/03/08/source-for-the-goose-and-all-that/
Stephen, that is simply childish.
Well we maybe will discuss that in a calmer place at a calmer time. Maybe we won’t. Personally I prefer to think of myself as child like rather than childish o:)
Is it real though?
Remind me what an emporer is. Maybe related to an emporium .
It’s a character from a fairytale that highlights how masses can be conned into agreeing with others that something exists even when they themselves see no evidence of that something whatsoever …. as in David’s fanciful instances of antisemitism under every stone, in every sentence etc.
…and yet it was deemed sufficiently credible to be cited as source material for articles on antisemitism and racial prejudice in almost every national paper and online news source in the UK yesterday. It seem that none of them share your view.
Outlandish claims sell newspapers …. as in ‘WW2 plane spotted on Moon’.
And this really is the point. Your view of David’s report and of the existence of antisemitism is irrelevant. The view of the news editors was that it was worth inclusion in their articles and now, as a result, a far wider audience can judge for themselves away from the extreme views of the activists on either side.
I remain shocked that people are more motivated to attack those that raise the issue of prejudice than in attacking those that practice it. Others here have called David’s report ‘hysteria’ as if there is some formula which indicates the point at which prejudice towards a group becomes a legitimate issue worth highlighting and prior to which it is just something that must be tolerated. I wonder if prejudice against Jews is the only form that is considered in this way. Is the ‘Black lives matter’ campaign hysteria? Is the campaign to out male sexual predators hysteria? Are the many campaigns that highlight racial and sexual discrimination in the work place hysteria or the drive to eradicate prejudicial views against people based on their sexual orientations hysteria? Of course they aren’t, so why just the one that report on prejudice towards Jews?
“I remain shocked that people are more motivated to attack those that raise the issue of prejudice than in attacking those that practice it.”
Does Zionism favour Jews?
You miss the point. David’s report raises the issue of prejudice towards Jews in the UK. Why would HE be attacked for reporting on it rather than those that practice it?
Dumb Bellarmy,
The Emperor Has NO Clothes = Islam is NOT the Religion of Peace.
I’m not sure if this is the full set David.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/08/labour-suspends-party-members-in-antisemitic-facebook-group
Another name check as well and I’m sure that their characterisation of you as ‘businessman’ is entirely in line with their tabloid-tagging policy. It will certainly leave some of your detractors a little moist of trouser this morning.
Ian I am sure David is finding your self appointed role as his minder more than a little embarrassing.
Actually Stephen, I worked damn hard on this one. Sleepless nights and all that. I am going to reward myself with a couple of days of enjoying the coverage if you don’t mind. Before tomorrow, where everyone forgets and it all goes back to just as how it was before. Or maybe JVL and Maddison will help delete lots of offensive posts and come out with a statistical analysis of how in reality, this is little more than a local church group, that had a couple of Zionist infiltrators who posted stuff to make them look bad.
That sounds like a plan David. Enjoy.
Spare a thought for me. I am going to read it again
your childish stunt made a blog by Jackie Walker in Medium. Well done. Unbelievable. Is this the way you guys work – she pulls Winstanley’s ‘racist’ slur based on nothing, and your childish gimmick to make a case? You must be proud of yourself. Just remember you have completely lost all credibility or right to criticise my work here.
Well, David, if coverage in the dailies floats your boat you could always bite a local dog.
Mikey, If you bit a local dog, the dog would become rabid.
David,
Are you seriously suggesting, given the sums the Israeli government spends on its PR machine – paid trolls and all that, that no Israeli-sponsored agent provocateurs exist? You must think some of us come up on a bona boat yesterday. At the same time, and let us be clear, I’m in no doubt actual anti-semites exist and places like Palestine Lives allow them to strut their stuff. Again though, the official Government produced and administrative produced documentation paints a picture far different from the hysteria you are intent on whipping up, which is why i rely on these actually well researched and well documented reports, rather than your politically motivated blatherings. If you wish to be taken seriously, first disassociate yourself from Jonathan (Scoffie) Hoffman!
Chris, I have to admit that I get paid by ZIONISTS, and do they pay well.
You stingy fellow should consider switching sides because the pay is better, the clothing is better, hot chicks, you of course would prefer hot goats, I get to fly anywhere I want, First Class, and the champagne is flowing baby.
Eat your heart out LOOZER. 🙂
yes, I think it was a clean sweep. When I saw it in the Mirror, I almost fell off my chair.
Guardian – “The Palestine Live group was founded in 2013 and was set up in a way that allowed administrators to add people to the group without their consent. “
Sleepless nights? Troubled? Conscience?
It is YOU who miss MY point.
Are some prejudicies exempt from criticism?
Now, does Zionism favour Jews?
You missed the point because nobody mentioned Zionism, rather prejudice towards Jews in the UK. If you are saying that people who highlight this prejudice can be targets for your criticism because of your views on Zionism then that is the subject for a different conversation. Now, your next move may be to accuse me of avoiding your non-sequitur question. As a Zionist and an Israeli I am obviously happy to discuss this with you in an appropriate thread or indeed privately where it relates to the subject matter under discussion rather than a diversion from an important area of discussion; namely prejudice in the UK.
Anyone posting here aware if the FB account: Alexandra Singer’ is one of Collier’s sock puppet accounts. I’m mean, his ‘cloak and dagger’ stuff is laughable, but if Mr Collier or his fellow travellers wish to disrupt, at least have the decency to hang around.
I hope Stephen Bellamy can shed some light on this.
I don’t do sock puppet accounts. Nothing I have is used for anything more than research.
Funny David, I have it on good account that you actually don disguises to attend meetings to dig dirt on those attending who’s views on Israel don’t chime with your own ardent Zionist ones. Indeed, its laughable all this ‘cloak and dagger’ stuff. Still, I don’t live in London & the South east and any political gatherings i may attend may result is State violence against those protesting, particularly if it has anything to do with democracy. rather like named civilians in Palestinians being shot by the brave cowards of the IDF. Now, remind me about how many under 16 yer old youths have been killed in the Occupied Territories this year please David?
Israeli PR ain’t what it used to be and social media allows for many facts to filter through, despite the Hasbara’s best efforts.
Hasbara … screech … Jews under the bed … screech …
You are pondscum.
Leah,
Oh you are awful, but I love you. NOT!
Screw You Too. 🙂
Happy Nakba!
‘Good account’? You mean Jackie’s blog, which suggests I don a ‘beard’. I actually asked Jackie more than once if we could have a chat, I never got a yes, I have as many beards as I have active sock puppets…like none. I think Jackie a funny soul who took a serious wrong turn somewhere and doesn’t get why everyone is against her – hence a Zionist plot.. Isn’t it odd, as Ian continually points out, that the more effect my work has, the more diversions are attempted in this comment section. An absolute nailed down expose of a high profile and rabid antisemitic group – and we are at 365 comments and counting. I take it as a sign of success.
“Jackie a funny soul who took a serious wrong turn somewhere and doesn’t get why everyone is against her.”?
Jews are everyone?
That’s a pretty racist statement Mike. Why do you think only Jews are against her? As far as I am aware, she has trouble even getting a venue. Are you suggesting that Jews control the world, nobody has a problem with Jackie, and if it weren’t for those pesky world controlling Jews, everything would be okay and all the venues would open up? Do only Jews defend themselves against attack, or do you think it is possible, that many non-Jews also have an issue with some of the things she said, and her actions since? Do Jews have so much power a person can be politically and socially ostracised, by Jews forcing other people to go along with them?
But the bottom line. I think Jackie took a wrong turn. I don’t see the underlying malice in her I see in others. I might be wrong of course, but I think it is more a misunderstanding with her over what Zionism / Judaism is, she went down the wrong path, received support from her new buddies, and things just snowballed. When she entered this she had no idea of the conflict history, so by now, she would only have been fed propaganda nonsense. And on top of this, she is engulfed in that cult which continually reinforces its own central beliefs through its own behaviour. Its a shame really, because I read her book and her life story is fascinating, she can tell a story, she obviously has a skillset, and if she carried in her mind one or two historical fictions that got her initially into trouble, they could have easily been swiftly addressed without serious fallout. So what – we all make mistakes. The blog today was spiteful, but probably born out of frustration. Like I said, I offered to sit down and talk, but was rejected. I’ll sit down and talk with anyone, no reason I wouldn’t with Jackie and its a shame she didn’t appear interested.
David everyone isn’t aginst her.
David,
My account is based upon your own claims, namely the alleged ‘covert’ joining of the Labour Party and attending last year’s Party Conference, which is all written up on this Blog. Are you now denying this covert nature of the alleged work you undertake? Covert and Cloak and Dagger being one and the same in the English language.
Thank’s for pointing out Ms Walker’s contribution. However, I believe I beat her to that particular post and opined myself far earlier. Still, its a good job I’m not associated with the FB Group you diligently trawled through – must have been tens of thousands of posts given a 27K membership and the fact the Group was founded in 2013.
Prey, where does the actual money come from to fund all this and live the lifestyle you do in the South East, which ain’t cheap shall we say!
Clipping Coupons.
How do you scrape out your meager living? Panhandling in the South East? Fascist Iran too cheap to toss you a bit?
Your “palestinian” kids are brainwashed to look forward to a big funeral where their carcass gets carried aloft, surrounded by fellow crazed terrorist savages. AND they will be rewarded with 72 virgins and their families get some payment.
What A Life.
I don’t expect to see anyone in Gaza winning a Nobel Prize in the sciences. They could get a DARWIN Award.
Edward,
I believe the only State-sponsored brainwashing that goes on in the Holy Lands is courtesy of the Israeli government and begins at Kindergarten. Thankfully my own child has been educated in a civilised environment and exposed to kids from all walks of life in a highly multicultural setting, where no preference is given to anyone. Nice deflection though.
Chris, Want to see Muslim brainwashing of Arab kids to aspire to DIE for Allah/Mohammed/palestine – and get 72 virgins and a Brand New Car! ?
Check out Pat Condell on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell
Scroll down to “Islamic Insanity”
Pat Condell AKBAR!
You have a child? You better return him/her to their Biological Parents before you physically/emotionally abuse them any more.
Why won’t you help a ‘rabid antisemite’ understand Zionism. Do you see anti-Zionism as antisemitism?
I’ll try again, don’t be frightened. Does Zionism favour Jews?
not replying to anyone so not sure who it responds to. Does Zionism favour Jews? What a silly question. It was a movement to give a stateless people, a home, so it will favour whatever stateless people it was designed for. Does a rescue attempt in Haiti favour Haitians? Does that make it racist? How about a refuge for battered women – is that sexist? Sometimes I worry about you Michael
Oh, I do love this one: “Does Zionism favour Jews? What a silly question. It was a movement to give a stateless people, a home,”. Indeed David, regrettably said home was home to another population and said home was built over the bodies and settlements of the inhabitants of Palestine, still, what’s a bit of ethnic cleansing I ask myself, particularly one as large as the Nakba!
Glad we cleared that one up David.
There’s the NAKBA. That WONDERFUL NAKBA.
A term coined to describe the heartbreak when 5 attack Arabs armies, none of which was an army of an existing “palestine” FAILED to continue Socialist hitlers war against the Jews.
5 Arab armies against 1 Jewish army.
Tsk, Tsk.
Happy NAKBA!
Edward,
By finishing off responses to me with your ‘Happy NAKBA’ insult, you display a degree of insensitivity and crassness that is wholly racist in its intent.
Let’s not be coy here, but if I were to switch one word and replace it with ‘Holocaust Remembrance Day’, I’d be accused of anti-semitism and far worse.
I do not think that the ethnic cleansing of 700,000 plus persons and murders committed by Zionists anything to celebrate or be proud of.
Alas, Collier allows such racist sentiment to be expressed freely here and never challenges this shit. Again, lets play the guilt by association canard, the one he utilises in his dodgy dossier.
Whats fit for the goose is fit for the gander as they say Edward!
Further, and given your racist epitaphs, its strange how the hacks feasting on the Dodgy Dossier don’t bother to check out this site and the BTL Comments, which, elicit many racist comments directed at Palestinian’s, not least than by you Edward.
Chris, Chris, Chris,
1) Happy Nakba!
2) Celebrating the FAILURE of your Sand Nazi friends to slaughter Jews is NOT anything to ignore
3) palestinians are NOT a race – It’s a pseudo nationality
4) We Celebrate the so-called “Nakba” like good people celebrate the Unconditional Surrender of the Third Reich and later Imperial Japan
5) Ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Jews from Arab countries and the fleeing of 700,000 Arabs from Israel? A wash. Let ’em all receive compensation and get on with their lives.
6) How many Muslims live in Israel and how many Jews live in Arab countries? Compare and contrast
7) Why are Muslims murdering innocent people in the UK, innocent people just walking over Westminster bridge, riding the Underground, going to concerts?
8) I get paid quite handsomely by your Zionist Overlords. How much do your Sand and Euro Nazi overlords pay you?
Happy Nakba!
Well, David. All knowledge is useful. Until read/listened to Mike Sumner I thought Holocaust Denial was just denying that a the ‘Holocaust’ ever took place. Was I right, or is your definition as fanciful and flaky as your definition of antisemitism?
I won’t engage with something that is clearly a troll argument, and if you try opening that line (promoting that ideology here) it will see you banned. The denial of the Holocaust is to engage the ‘revisionist scholars’. It is not about whether 6 or 5.3 or 5.7 million Jews were slaughtered – all the serious research is being conducted by serious scholars. In its milder form, Denial is to suggest there was no explicit campaign to eradicate European Jewry or/and that the Jews weren’t gassed or/and that the numbers have been deliberately and greatly exaggerated and the ‘myth’ is part of an attempt at political / financial extortion by Jews. It is greater form of course it merges with the Rothschild conspiracy either to suggest that the Jews didn’t die at all, (except for illness, starvation etc) or that some did, but the Zionists were responsible.
I will make no further comment with you on this matter.
Time to ban a whole group of creepy trolls, I’d say …
Leah expressing the totalitarianism within her belief set, which must not be challenged. Now, who warned against this mindset, just can’t put my finger on her. Oh, now I remember, none other than Hannah Arendt.
Now, remind me who’s the Pondscum again, for it ain’t me.
It very much is you, for example in objecting to Jewish national self-determination in their own homeland.
A blog owner excluding vile trolls is not ‘totalitarianism’, you utterly thick creep.
Who’s the Pondscum?
The Arabs/Muslims who perpetrate terrorist attacks all over the world and hence the necessity to screen passengers and baggage at every airport in the world.
And Pondscum sucking Pondscum like you, comrade chris.
Happy Nakba!
Your post is understood, as is your definition of the misleading term. I now know what it means … and what it does NOT mean. The blog has been educational.
david irving learned a costly lesson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd
According to you, idiot, is antisemitism only marching up and down with a swastika?
You really are one thick creep.
Antisemitism is acting/railing against Jews for no reason other than they are Jews.
Why is anti-Jewish racism, the only type of racism you are constantly trying to belittle? You know racists who discriminated against black people always said they had a good reason to dislike blacks, and it was rarely connected to the colour of their skin. Maybe it was levels of street crime, gang membership, relatively high presence in jail, high school failure rates and so on. Racists would stand and say, I don’t hate him because he is black, I hate him because (insert nonsensical excuse here) – using a social statistic caused by institutionalised racism as a way of deflecting accusations of racism. Then they could say (using your quote above) ‘Racism is acting/railing against blacks for no reason other than they are blacks. That’s not me – I have a reason and it is nothing to do with the colour of his skin’……A sickening and thoroughly depressing tactic. You are pulling exactly the same trick with Jews.
what did you make of all the antisemitism in the report?
Your ‘chosen subject’ is antisemitism. I’m just reminding you of the accepted definition.
Nog belitttling it. Just ignoring the bolt-ons that you’ve added.
I haven’t added any bolt ons at all. What did you think of all the antisemitism in the report?
Need to re-read it. Shall list that I see antisemitic and what I don’t.
Thank you Michael. You illustrate my point exactly. I hope that others will learn the same.cheers.
Hey you two fascists, get a room. You’re grossing us out.
David, as I understand it, Ben Gurion planned to gain a foothold with Israel and then, “by force”, expand. Am I correct?
Do the British want to invade France? No, is there probably a piece of paper somewhere in the MoD with contingency plans for such an eventually within the right Geo-political framework – well yes, I would imagine there is. Do you know where a conspiracy theorist could run with such ‘evidence’? Do you know what losses the Jews suffered in the civil conflict? Do you know what their losses were in February and March, prior to Plan Dalet, do you know what type of invasion they were expecting in May? Do you know how many Arab irregular forces crossed from Syria and Lebanon in early 1948? The idea that the Jews were in such control they could (in advance) plot some type of massive land grab is absolute poppycock.
But … but … the Jews control the galaxy!!!!!!
But I Control The Jews!
Silence, from one with all the answers.
Your neighbors wish you would be silent too. Enough of you clawing your way to the roof and howling at the moon.
The interview shows Morris confirming the ethnic cleansing of Arabs and the deliberate, planned destruction of their villages.
Spam?
Yes, because a, Morris, after further study, altered his opinion somewhat, which makes your quote out of date and used for propaganda purposes, and b, because nobody denied the existence of the plan. The entire point being made was about events leading up to April – before Plan D, so why did you interfere, by spamming an outdated and irrelevant quote?
I did not spam. I sought Morris’s knowledge on the matter. The interview was in 2004. Are yoj telling me that he has again changed his evidence … or just his ‘opinion’.
The 2004 view itself was a revision on previously held belifs, as your books will tell you.
I wasn’t aware that other than Jews disliked her. Sorry if my wording was careless.
So, you’re the exception, Edward?
I love this place. It is the only serious competition to cats I have ever encountered
I love this, Collier, in his effort to politically neutralise criticism of Israel and ‘out’ anyone he deems anti-semitic, a clear definition of which we have no idea – well apart from the fact that if anyone farts near an Israeli apologist it expresses anti-semitism, has committed 22 pages of his 250 page dodgy dossier (its on par with the Blair/Campbell Iraq dossier) to one Dr Alan Maddison, with whom he’s had a run-in over many years. well Collier and Jonathan (Scoffie) Hoffman, who David refuses to denounce for his (Scoffie’s) association with well known far right racists, two of whom were jailed only this week. Its that guilt by association thing again David that you love to rely upon.
Anyhow, such energy expedited on this endeavour suggests Collier is a ‘online stalker’, and seriously undermines any claims to balanced research.
Again David, its clear to any non-partisan observer that your actions are politically motivated, that is, its not anti-semitism you are concerned with, rather, its intelligent folk criticising your beloved Israel you are concerned with. As well as doing service to your Tory Party, which, actually is infested by anti-semites – why don’t you check out its declining memberships views of Jews, rather than the Left’s critique of Israel and its sympathy towards the Palestinians.
Of course, any Tory that expresses pro-Arab views, rather than pro-money, pro-Saudi views must also be neutered by your political masters – all documented, but alas, not acted upon.
Your dodgy dossier, swallowed lock, stock and barrel by the London-based bubble heads of the MSM, who’s propaganda against Corbyn and McDonnell is unprecedented in scale and scope, really is a hatchet job of extreme proportions.
Lucky for you is the fact that I spit and don’t swallow.
Please keep up the good work as it really does make me laugh. Again, official figures on hate crime don’t chime with your hysterionics, which, lets face it is pure propaganda. Mind you, if idiots are as crass to post actual anti-semitic tirades, well, they get what they deserve. however to tar numerous Leftwing figures with your propaganda brush is rather uncouth in my humble opinion.
Further, and at 250 pages, our incompetent hacks must be brilliant at speed reading, given that their own tripe was issued within a few hours of your dodgy dossier being delivered.
At least I shall take time to read it, which by the size of the pdf will be quite long time. As such, and with my Nexus 9 in hand, I’m lucky I have 17 hours of inflight travel to kill, which gives me ample time to digest this bumph. Luckier still, I can now power my nexus from my seat, otherwise, ill not be able to finish reading all this material so diligently compiled by you.
David’s hard work is gaining traction.
Racism, Fascism on the Left is getting the spotlight and attention that it needs.
I’ve very much enjoyed the diversion provided by the travelogue of your fictional journey from Shangri La to Brigadoon Chris. You’ve written nearly as much as David in his reports. I wonder what your good friends Cohen of America and Cohen the obviously assimilated ex IDF Jewish coal miner with the Thai mail order bride would make of it if they were real. As the readers here will have observed, once the gaping inconsistencies in your cover story were rumbled some time ago there wasn’t much left for you here. Still, as you have chosen to support prejudice against people in the UK rather than those that draw attention to it I’m sure an audience of Mikes will suffice for you.
Ian,
Where I reside we have to carry ID Cards, as such, any travels i undertake are very well documented. The Mr Cohen you refer too is a UK citizen who attended the University of Leicester between 1989-1982. He’s active in the University’s Alumni Group. Obviously, he don’t exist in your warped mind. We had a very large Mature Student’s Group at my Uni, of which I was a member. Again, you seem to fear facts!
So where do you reside? Do you have to wear an orange jumpsuit or just a straitjacket?
Mr Kay,
May I enquire, if like Mr Collier, if you are a member of Likud. David obviously is associated with Herut UK, which is the UK offshoot of Likud, which is quite a rightwing wing political grouping. Still, I may be mistaken.
Also, since when has Malaysia been in Thailand – you really do require some serious lessons in geography, never mind propaganda.
I am not a member of Herut AND Herut is not Likud. Quit with the crap. I gave them a talk on Jabotinsky at their opening bash because I do history and give talks. The constant need to smear is sickening.You guys haven’t got real arguments so you invent them
“… Herut UK, which is the UK offshoot of Likud, which is quite a rightwing wing political grouping …” – which makes it practically worse than Hitler?
You far left lunatics are the very dregs.
Some info for any presstitutes or actual Journalists who chance upon this Blog. Please be advised that Mr David Collier, the Blog host and ‘alleged’ unbiased anti-racism researcher is a member of Herut UK, which is the UK off shoot of Israel’s Likud Party. Some details of Mr Collier’s involvement can be found on the attached link, and in numerous Israeli news forums: https://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/uk-more-than-70-attend-re-launch-of-uk-zionist-party/
Here’s a link to the groups UK website: http://likud-herut.org.uk
For the benefit of actual Journalists David can you confirm this fact, I mean given how unbiased and neutral you are?
Thank you for your answer David, although, of course its an acceptable risk that sometime I may inadvertently come across websites and Blogs i find below the belt shall I say, which of course I’d never desire to link in to. I’m not one for giving oxygen to Hate wherever its found, unless of course its part of normal political exchange – racism is not part of normal political exchange and I’m absolutely opposed to it. Indeed, I’d come to your defence in such instances.
Chrissy, Posting a link to “the ugly truth” blog which has a picture of a skull with a Star of David on it.
And YOU want to be taken seriously. LOL!
FOAD, and as always, Happy Nakba!
David,
I note I’m in Moderation for making reference to H-r-t UK, or is it linking in to the other provided link, which has some nice material on you and your cohorts. I rather enjoyed the BTL comments on that article.
Aah Cohen of Leicester ! I’m sure you’ll understand why it’s so hard to keep up with all of your fictional characters and inconsistent stories. I was mentioning to one of your Mikes above that the word ‘hysteria’ had been used to characterise the reporting of prejudice against Jews in the UK. I asked which other campaigns to report prejudice against specific groups in the UK ought to be termed in the same way; the ones that report discrimination based on colour, gender, sexual orientation…what do you think? Do they all amount to hysteria too?
Ian,
I’m afraid to say you could never find any inconsistencies based on the fact that honest memory recall, based on real, rather than perceived actualities, cannot be undermined by your crass efforts. Indeed, being honest is of great import to me, as is sticking to verifiable facts – now, i can go under a ‘lie detector’ and answer questions pertinent to any comments I’ve made here, namely, my life history and experiences. Said tests would confirm the integrity of what I’ve written. Now, Ian, I’m very happy to undertake said tests via accredited specialists. Alas, given such lengths have to be undertaken to appease your inability to accept truth, I trust you’ll be picking up the tab for these tests. Again, most of what i say would stand in an English Court, based on the fact they are not deceptive in any way.
Do some research creep, or don’t bother. What do ye say?
Yes, all very melodramatic and I’m sure that this plays well to your Mikes but everyone else sees this puerile nonsense for the ridiculous fiction that it is. Your poorly constructed cover was blown ages ago and now these follow-ups simply compound the self inflicted damage.
Putting aside your real identity, which in any event is irrelevant, let’s just return to my two part question; (1) Why do you attack people who report on prejudice in the UK rather than those that practice it? and (2) Are any other campaigns to eradicate prejudice in the UK ‘hysteria’ or just those where the targets of the prejudice are Jews?
I’d be very surprised if I got a sensible reply but I am an optimist.
Ian,
Please don’t twist my words, I’m opposed to then politicisation of anti-semitism and faux anti-semitism.
Further, I’m opposed to actual anti-semitism, much as I’m opposed to racism in general.
You’ll note, if you ever checked me out, that I’m the first person to acknowledge that racism and fascism exists in my country of origin, namely Wales and such instances can be deduced from official Governmental Reports, Police Reports and actual voting patterns at General Elections, that is, you can check the number of votes cast for what are deemed racist parties over the decades. research I’ve undertaken.
Further, the correlation between politicised faux anti-semitism charges and ascent of Jeremy Corbyn as a leading political figure in the UK as of the Summer of 2015 is indisputable.
Its not only ardent Zionists and Israeli apologist who are fearful of Corbyn & McDonnell, but much of the UK establishment based in London, all of which have been hysterical about Corbyn.
Evidently you seem unaware of these facts. Alas, i suggest you read or view UK MSM and also visit non-MSM sources that give evidence to these facts.
Again, we know why I’m here, as I state clearly, and it ain’t to offer support for Israel that’s for sure. Hence my questioning.
No need to “twist” your words. Your words are twisted from the source, little ol’ you.
You just blew your cover. Over time you were given enough rope where you finally hung yourself.
How many people have been kicked out of Laboor, for short periods, for anti-semitism?
Why have the ranks of Laboor been overrun by racists, fascists, anti-semites, conspiracy nuts?
Happy Nakba!
Have re-read the first 40 or so pages of Pt1. Nothing there that could be called blatantly antisemitic. Many references to Zionists. Zionist is not a euphemism for Jew. Cohen the tobaccanist in Golder’s Green can’t normally be referred to as a Zionist with a tobacco shop.
Shall prepare myself to be appalled by antisemitism and read on.
p.s. Pt1. is very disjointed in the presentation, just supposed examples thrown on a table.
Michael. You have about 6 hours to reject the statement you have just made. If within six hours that entirely ridiculous statement about the first 40 pages, pages which contain suggestions that ‘everyone needs to read Mein Kampf’ to understand why Jews are not liked, links to Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Holocaust ‘deprogramming courses’, articles about Jews as Satan and so on. Now I am all for free speech, and you can believe what you like, but I already regard you as having zero value and as a troll. I have been told by others that you contribute nothing and should have been banned ages ago. So I am left thinking this – if you cannot see antisemitism in the first 40 pages or so – and I would argue 99% of people would see bundles of antisemitism in the first 40 pages is antisemitism, then there is no ‘reality’ to your troll at all. You are not a troll trying to be real, you are just a troll being a complete d**k for the sake of it. That type of poster I really don’t need here, and it has nothing to do with free speech.
Your choice.
David, Do you collect the IP address of posters to your blog? I hope so. I wonder where some posters are located.
Mr Collier,
On page 4 of part one of your dodgy dossier – calling it a Report undermines actual research reports, i not the following clim you make:
“This research is fully independent. I am not affiliated with any political group or community organisation. I believe this independence is important and adds to the integrity of the work.”
As, in this document you claim not to be associated with any political group or community, could you elucidate on your participation in the launch event of Herut UK, detailed by Jewish News Online On 19 February this year?
Now, have you joined Herut UK, which is an offshoot of Likud, or, was your association with the launch merely a presentation?
Again, given the serious nature of your accusations, the damage said accusation may impart on innocent persons, its important that we understand motivation.
Here’s the text from the Jewish News report, which, i trust you don’t mind me sharing:
“TIMES OF ISRAEL – More than 70 people attended the re-launch event of Herut UK, the political Zionist party affiliated to World Herut in Israel.
The party’s executive director, Karma Feinstein-Cohen, who came from Israel especially for the re-launch, spoke about the history of the movement while pro-Israel activist David Collier spoke about the legacy of Zionist founding father, Vladimir Jabotinsky.
Lawyer Mark Lewis emphasised the importance of “unapologetic Zionism”, while the UK national director, Mandy Blumenthal, chaired the event and introduced Herut UK’s youth director, Harry Saul Markman.
Arieh Miller, chief executive of the Zionist Federation, also attended the event, which was held in Loughton on Sunday night.”
This report actually suggests you are clearly associated with a political grouping, although, membership of said group may be disputed.
So, are you a member please?
Well, I shall re-re-read the first 40 or so pages. I shan’t follow links. I haven’t the time for that. It would help if YOU specify on which of the pages I shall find blatant AS.
not good enough. You’re done here. Your last contribution on this site was to suggest you saw NO antisemitism in Mein Kampf or Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It shows how far you are willing to go to be a d”k. You have nothing of worth to contribute here
Atta bay David.
Posters like Mike, Michael, Chris Rogers, Sumners Eve, are useful to see the arguments that racists, fascists, sand nazis are currently using. AND what they leave out.
I see Chris. I asked why you attack people that report on prejudice in the UK and you responded by saying “I’m opposed to then politicisation of anti-semitism and faux anti-semitism.” (sic) The inference is that the reporting of prejudice towards Jews is politically motivated. Do you think it can ever be justified to report on prejudice towards Jews in the UK or will it always be politically motivated……..and why so?
This leads to the second part of the question; Are any other campaigns to eradicate prejudice in the UK ‘hysteria’ or just those where the targets of the prejudice are Jews? Do you think that these campaigns are also politically motivated as well or just the ones where the reports relate to prejudice against Jews?
Again I make no mention of Zionism, Israel or anything other than prejudice in the UK.
Ian,
If I ever witness a case of actual anti-semitic abuse in the UK up front and in person, first I’d intervene and secondly I would make formal report to the Police and cooperate in full to have the person prosecuted. Again, and as the Official figures suggest, this is a rare occurrence. However, it does happen, and any one opposed to racism I trust would do what I’d hope to do. Again, and in the three places I’ve resided over the span of my life, I’ve never encountered anti-semitism. I’ve encountered much criticism of Israel, which is legitimate, as is criticism of the UK State, the USA and Saudi Arabia.
Strange, is it not David Collier, that the above post, posted by Edward (“You won’t see much as long as you wear that equine feed bag you call a Niqba.”) is clearly disgustingly racist and/or anti Muslim yet you have not deleted it. It was posted 10th March and today is the 12th. Does that mean you condone such remarks? Are you yourself anti-Muslim? Or are you just a hypocrite?
You’re right Mike, thanks for pointing it out. I deleted it. It isn’t going to work though – trying to suggest I am a racist – when I clearly am not. This despite years of people pouring over my posts looking for something they can twist. Instead – they find things other people say to use against me. This comment section was pretty much ‘free speech’ created, so that anti-Zionists would be allowed to air their views and talk to Zionists without moderation. As it has now come down to anti-Zionists trying to use this freedom, to suggest I am a racist, I am considering entirely removing the comment section. I hardly look at it – it isn’t there for me, – and I cannot really be bothered if this is all I receive in return. Unlike Palestine Live, where 60-73% of posters share hard -core antisemitism, and any dissent is ejected, most here are pretty decent and all views are freely aired. But I cannot be bothered to deal with people like you, who think they are clever, when in reality they are simply shallow (not forgetten your Holocaust Denial stuff btw). Shame really I am not aware of another comment section like this on any blog I know.
poppycock. You don’t stumble across sites like TUT, far from it. These days search engines deliberately stack the odds against you being able to find them. Perhaps I am wrong and it is something that still needs to be addressed – can you enlighten us with the search parameters you used, so we can try and replicate it?
In truth I believe it simply shows where you get your stuff from.
David,
The first part of your dossier seems to focus on those tied in to ‘conspiracy theories’. I’m very much aware of David Duke, who’s a rightwing nutter and Alison Weir, whom I’ve only come across once via The Lobster, and that was in links/references associated with the IRHA. Indeed, I’ve come across more Blogs and websites I’d usually avoid like the plague by just doing a DuckgoDuck and Google search on you, with some associated key words. Evidently, and just by clicking on links provided in these legitimate searches I must now be categorised as an ‘anti-semite’. Indeed, having inadvertently linked to The Ugly Truth, a site I only knew existed an hour ago, my association with this site, however inadvertently must be damning.
Much to go through in your dossier, but the fact remains, the material presented and names presented are all unknown to me. I do know Dr. Alan Maddison via Facebook, so i too must be guilty, although guilty of what is a mystery.
Chris, You are FULL OF SHIT.
If you were a figure in Laboor, you would be kicked out – for a short time.
Happy Nakba!
Thank you very much for confirming that David. And as suggested by my line of enquiry, I find your dossier of import. I will not dispute facts and I’m not here to just attack you. my intent is clear, and as stated previously, any Journalist worth their salt needs to undertake background research – i’m opposed to lazy journalism. Now, we may disagree, however, neither of us wish to promote extreme Rightwing nonsense, which is a point you make in your own report. And its a point I fully understand.
Please accept my apology for the TUT link, and in the interests of neither of us promoting material we dislike, may I request again that you either remove the post entirely – this in no way being construed as censorship, or assist me in editing it.
We are both interested in establishing facts, and may it remain so.
I have already deleted them
along with anything that inferred you had posted them in bad faith.
David,
Many thanks for acting upon my request and, in this instance, it was the right thing to do – carelessness on my own behalf yes, but no malice intended or offence intended, hence, why it needed removing.
As for bad faith, actually I have my political motivation and you have yours, but given the accusations in your dossier, some digging is necessary. It is not, in my humble opinion, in bad faith to establish truth and fact, nor question issues we may disagree with. Indeed, we may find some common ground.
As of 7:23 EST there still is a Chris Rogers from March 10 with a URL to the fascist “uglytruth” blog.
Official figures derive from reports of racism and prejudice Chris, reports like the ones David produces. This is how people who may be remote from the intended targets of the prejudice are made aware that it happens. You’ll have to clarify what is ‘rare’ and whether this, in itself makes it a none issue. If your previous point was sincerely made then I doubt that you would. Nobody would. So if we accept that reporting prejudice is the right thing to do and we accept that this is what David is literally doing then all that is left is the question of motive. You have said that it is not bona fide but political. How so?
Ian,
I have no issue with David pointing out instances of anti-semitism, or, persons breaching levels many would find offensive – of course it all depends on the bar setting. For myself, the bar is will any accusation made stand the test of a Court Action, that is, clearly a breach of English Common Law. As it stands, the IHRA definition of anti-semitism and accompany examples of alleged breaches are not Statutory Law – and the definition itself I’d personally contest 100% if efforts were made to make it Statutory Law. Better definitions exist, ones without any baggage attached, so its those we must support.
As for the politicisation, well, like you, David is a confessed Zionist, which is certainly not illegal or proscribed against. On the other hand, I’m of the Left, I oppose extreme forms of nationalism, either in my home country of Wales or further afield, and believe Israel should be brought to account for its numerous breaches of human rights. Of course, the same yardstick applies to the UK itself, the USA and a plethora of other nations.
Again, if either Mr Collier or yourself were to come under sustained verbal attack for being Jewish, or physically attacked for being Jewish, I’d be at your side, as i’d hope anyone of the left would do.
But the above should also apply to the Palestinian or followers of Islam, or for that matter, Christianity.
Chris, May your every day be FILLED with gut wrenching Nakba. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgL0HZ_-2pI
I think we’re getting somewhere and I mean that with a level of sincerity not typically associated with exchanges on this site. I can say with some certainty that the bar for prejudice is often set at a different level by those that are the targets and recipients of it to the more remote bystanders, however earnest their intentions and sympathies may be.It is logical. For this reason it is likely that there may be some disconnect between the level of your bar and perhaps that of David. This does not infer disingenuous motive or lack of bona fides. You are just looking at the same things but from a background of differing experiences. I also appreciate that it is often hard to disassociate from a hostile view towards the recipients and focus on what is right because of a need to conflate one thing (Jews) with another (Israel). You do this in almost every post and it causes the reader to assume that your main objective is malice and hostility to Jews rather than the expression of the political passions of the leftist. I can do nothing about this.
My Zionism is very far removed from anything you would understand or appreciate and goes way beyond soundbites and politics. You say that “if either Mr Collier or yourself were to come under sustained verbal attack for being Jewish, or physically attacked for being Jewish, I’d be at your side”. This is very much the point. By living here in Israel this does not and will not happen to me or my family in day to day life. I cannot have the same certainties anywhere else in the world and therefore this is the best that i could ever do for my family. That is my Zionism.
Now back to the disingenuous and depressing banter and cheap point scoring surely ?
Ian,
I’m saddened that you believe within the confines of the UK that your daughter may one day be threatened, or indeed your family threatened, threatened for being Jewish, which of course is anathema to me personally and much of the Left.
I must also concede that not being Jewish places me at a disadvantage as to how Jewish folk perceive racism, in this instance anti-semitism directed at Jews. Whilst I understand being in a minority and being subjected to racism myself, those doing the abuse where I presently reside can be forgiven given the UKs colonial past and abuse of natives under its colonial jurisdiction. Even I as a Welshman, have the odd anti-English sentiment, although its directed at the English elite. I’d be a liar if I stated differently.
Now, Israeli as an idea has had different meanings and significance within the diaspora over hundreds of years, in its latest incantation, underpinned by modern Zionist thought, that has mean’t a physical/geographical entity, namely, the state of Israel, the geography of which is within the Holy Lands, which have been hotly contested for thousands of years.
Now, Israel exists, its founding is hotly contested and crimes have been committed. And this would apply to both sides is the present dispute.
Now, and for the sake of your daughter, I actually yearn for a peaceful settlement, where she can enjoy an environment similar to that that my own daughter enjoys – and that means going to school without fear of rocket attacks.
However, I apply the same yardstick to those who live in the disputed territories, that is outside of the 1967 borders, namely, that they enjoy the benefits of a nation state, that is a sustainable national state at peace with their neighbours.
Now, one suggestion is the dissolution of Israel and the establishment of a nation state in what was once Palestine, namely an inclusive nation state founded on the principles handed to us courtesy of the French Revolution. The other, is the Two State solution, or a federal solution.
In my humble opinion, the continuation of the Occupation and illegal establishment of Jewish communities within the Occupied lands does a grave disservice to those who reside in Israel and pours petrol onto the already established flames.
if you desire peace and a safe environment, then guilt needs to be accepted for past mistakes, particularly with regards the Nakba. And, the displacement of peoples whoever they are is very uncomfortable for me, and for those who have been displaced, so the guilt is spread I’m afraid.
Now, I promote conciliation and a willingness to accept responsibly. Again this goes each way.
As for human rights, these are most important too me, and currently in the Occupied Territories these are being breached with impunity.
Now, for the UK, having troops in Northern Ireland ultimately was a PR disaster and one that inflamed passions. The same applies to the Occupied Territories. And pointing the finger continually for the failure of establishing peace and a fair settlement at the Palestinian leadership does not help.
Now, and back to Jewish folk living in the UK, namely in the place they call home. Should the community ever be threatened by The UK state itself, or Rightist extremist, the Left would meet the challenge. And again this applies to all minorities within the UK. That French Revolution idealism again I’m afraid.
Once more, lets not conflate persons objecting to Zionism, that’s the late Nineteenth Century incantation of Zionism, with anti-semitism, which is a hatred of Jews for being Jews. They are two different matters, as the historical record attests too.
Further, attacks on the Israeli State for its behaviour within the Occupied Territories cannot be construed as anti-semitism, unless those doing the criticism are blanketing and blaming all of the international Jewish community for actions taken at a State level. Again, I’m as critical of the UK, as I am of the USA as I am of Israel as I am of Saudi Arabia. They are state actors and in many instances their actions don’t represent the will of the people, nor benefit the majority of the people.
Hopefully, one day Israel will change its currently trajectory, and when it does I hope to visit, if only to witness for myself ancient relics of historical import.
I trust this answers some questions of me you may have. So, lets fight anti-semitism, but lets also not weaponise it for political gain.
TL:DR
Eliminate anti-semitism and thereby eliminate any “political” gain.
Meanwhile, what do you suggest to defeat Islamofascism that continues to murder innocent people all over the world?
https://onthedarkside410122300.wordpress.com/2018/03/10/palestine-live-and-me/
Thomas saw the Jew-hate and bailed out. Why didn’t Corbyn?
When will Laboor kick Jeremy Corbyn out too?
Edward,
For what crime exactly. Or are you referring to the fact someone made him a member of a Group he knew bugger all about, had some feeds from a couple of posters, which would give a Notification, responded to said post and be on his way – very tenuous Indeed,
Now, do we have not only the exact figures on membership, but exact number of posts made since the group was formed and an exact figure of what can be construed as anti-semitic posts, under a criteria most can agree upon, to run a statistical analysis – we’ve seen examples, but no precise figures i’m afraid.
Again, facts really are sacred as is a statistical slide rule to gauge an exact percentage of offending posts. Oh, and i personally find David Duke offensive. Alas, one was not a member of this Group. Actually, I belong to a handful of Groups, only one of which concerns itself with Israel. I can discuss 4.5G broadband issues though in detail and problems associated with BB coverage in remote communities.
Pobably for the same reason David didn’t spot the Arab hate on International Community Scoffie
The World sees Arab hate in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Fascist Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Jordan…
When Arabs hate and kill Arabs (500,000 dead in Syria), how can anyone expect Arabs to get along with Infidels?
Edward,
Your grasp on history, politics and geopolitics is somewhat lopsided and meaningless. So, lets not look at the Middle east and those who inhabit the ME, but lets look at Europe, which, whilst Christian in character had numerous religious wars, that culminated in the 100 year war and end with the Peace of Westphalia. Most of the present issues in the ME are very much to do with Western interference, and of course, the existence of a colonial Israel just pours more petrol on a volatile region.
Pinhead, Are you trying to say that Arabs/Muslims kill Arabs/Muslims because of Western civilization, Christians, Jews, Israel????
And the success of the “peace of westphalia” led to the great peace of the 20th century.
Tell us more, you F’n moron. LOL!
So I’m a pinhead am I Edward, your understanding of the Peace of Westphalia and its significance in ending religious strife is truly shocking. Come back when you get a fucking History Degree please, and that’s one in Modern European History or International Relations.
The “Peace of Westphallus” led to what, a peaceful 20th Century???
Chris, Get yourself new eyeglasses, you brain damaged sack of sh*t.
I hope several million more Arabs/Muslims flood into Eurabia who will bring along their culture, impose it on estrogen poisoned slobs like yourself, and turn Eurabia into the same kind of SH*THOLE they left.
Happy Nakba for Eurabia.
Stephen, I actually had some respect for you, but have to admit that it seems to have been totally misplaced. I rarely spend time on Facebook, and almost certainly never visited that group. When I post, I upload a copy of my blog onto the corresponding FB page, and from there share it into several groups I know. I do this without visiting them either, but the one you list would not have been one of those I share to.
In my report I make it crystal clear that membership of a group means nothing. I even state that sharing onto a group isn’t necessarily an indictment. That is integrity.
You have none. Zero. Zilch. So I ask you this:
If I am wrong, and you are right. Why do you need to stoop to such cheap tactics? Why can I walk into any FB group and find 60%+ of antisemitic posters standing alongside MP’s and you have to resort to empty smears? Why can the same be said of Winstanley and his ilk? Why do you need lies to try to make things seem as if they are not? Why do you scurry off to other sites and post the same pathetic nonsense, trying to create a stir so others can share the same lies?
The truth is here. The lie is with you. QED.
Err no David. I don’t think it is a question of someone being right and someone else being wrong. It is a question of implied and overt extrapolating from primitive facts.
“It would be easy to start this blog with Jeremy Corbyn. After all, it seems as if he was part of a rabidly antisemitic Facebook Group, along with Paul Eisen, Gilad Atzmon, numerous other Holocaust Deniers, hard-core antisemites, white supremacists, and all the other wretched political ideologies that gather together to pretend it is about the Palestinians, and not the Jews.”
Albert Einstein Letter to The New York Times. December 4, 1948. “Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
“A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
“During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
signed:
ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ,
HANNAH ARENDT,
ABRAHAM BRICK,
RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO,
ALBERT EINSTEIN,
HERMAN EISEN, M.D.,
HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D.,
H.H. HARRIS,
ZELIG S. HARRIS,
SIDNEY HOOK,
FRED KARUSH,
BRURIA KAUFMAN,
IRMA L. LINDHEIM,
NACHMAN MAISEL,
SEYMOUR MELMAN,
MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D.,
HARRY M. OSLINSKY,
SAMUEL PITLICK,
FRITZ ROHRLICH,
LOUIS P. ROCKER,
RUTH SAGIS,
ITZHAK SANKOWSKY,
I.J. SHOENBERG,
SAMUEL SHUMAN,
M. SINGER,
IRMA WOLFE,
STEFAN WOLFE.
New York, Dec. 2, 1948
There is no point being made here, just a quote from a letter. Why have you failed to answer so many questions? You just spring up with another post elsewhere, creating just another straw man argument.
So? A scientist is making political comments about something he knows very little about. Being an MD also doesn’t make one an expert on politics.
Boring nonsense.
Leah,
Given your limited interjections, you are expert on nada, and you opinion leaves much to be desired.
Now, off you go sock puppet and go and comment on Scoffie’s Blog.
See who is calling me a ‘sock puppet’ … an unhinged thick ignorant creep who knows nothing about the ME …
Hamas Covenant 1988
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement
18 August 1988
In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah .,,
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
“Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)”.
“But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah.” (The Cow – verse 120).
Edward,
I think you’d be better informed, that is equipped to discuss Islam, as far as geopolitics is concerned, by reading some of the output of Prof. Jeffrey M. Bale, his latest book is highly recommended, it may also help you escape your own intellectual straightjacket, that you display continually here. I doubt you’ll take my advice, but can’t say i did not at least give you a few pointers.
Chris, It’s spelled STRAITJACKET you uneducated wanker. Your straitjacket is of course XXL to accommodate your morbidly obese girth.
ESAD and Happy Nakba!
Like Mr Collier, I too am prone to spelling mistakes, particularly on the crap keyboard I’m using. If that’s the best you can do, find another job.
Thanks for the Maddison one, I saw it the other day whilst I was making notes about others – not sure why it wasn’t done. It’s been corrected.
David,
No issue, I’m used to spelling/grammar errors and make them all the time on Social Media, however, as this is a Report, proofing is a must – if it was printed material, mistakes are very costly, as I’m all far too aware myself.
Chris the illiterate creep who can’t even spell …
Finally speed read Mr Collier’s Dossier, that is I have spent approx. 150 mins panning through Parts 1 and 2, which, is far more time than the hacks who have reported on it have undertaken. A more forensic approach is necessary. Apart from the ‘usual suspects’ several of whom I know vaguely via Social Media and will interact with, most persons detailed i have little to zero knowledge about.
Thankfully, I seem to spend more time on this Blog than any other related to Israel, Zionism, Palestine or anti-semitism – my advice, as ever, if you disagree with Collier, then enter the Lion’s den as the echo chamber does little.
The prevalence of ‘conspiracy theorists’, or those influenced by them, and references to the Rothschild’s confounds me – although, afraid to say, what was once deemed ‘conspiracy theory’ on occasion has its foundation firmly in fact, a point well illustrated in Peter Wright’s Spycatcher, and the Kincora Affair, we may add the same over instances of Red Flags stretching back to the time of the Colonial Uprising in Continental America – as the saying goes, where there’s smoke, one often finds fire. Alas, I’ll confine myself to those of historical import.
Its clear that what I most certainly would deem anti-semitic themed posts have been posted and shared – though why on earth those doing the posting don’t understand this fact sows confusion in me.
However David, the case you present against Jeremy Corbyn and Clive Lewis is really tenuous, neither of whom have personally Posted or shared any material that could be construed as anti-semitic. These are MPs David, with busy schedules who certainly don’t have time to trawl through various FB Groups they maybe members of – I notice their responses were altogether infrequent. Charges made not proven I’m afraid.
Now, this Dossier (dodgy or not) has resulted in several ‘suspensions’ from the Labour Party, and at least one person being ejected from the JVL – who no doubt will respond in their own time.
Whilst the documentary evidence presented in your Dossier may pass muster within the NCC of the Labour Party – whose issues and deficiencies I’m quite well acquainted with, I cannot say this in an English Court of Law.
Indeed, and as Stephen Bellamy has compressed in his own posts on the FCLU affair, tenuous links and exaggerated claims get you no where – apart from a bad press.
Despite all your charts and statistical outpourings, I did not notice a detailed figure on the actual number of posts made in the Group from its founding until the end of your research process. I hope you can fill me in on that, together with the actual prevalence of AS deemed posts as an actual percentage of all posts – which must be numerous.
Self censorship by the UKs media for fear of upsetting the Israeli Embassy/Israeli Lobby in the UK is notorious, particularly with regards events in Palestine, as such, Groups such as Free Speech Israel offer a different narrative, and, are anti-Zionist and critical of Israel, which is legitimate.
I shall have to consider your attacks on key Group members on their merits, although you do seem to have an axe to grind against Dr Maddison, who’s name you have incorrectly spelled in your Dossier.
These are my initial thoughts and comments, and thanks for answering the few enquiries I have made of you, which I trust may be of value to Journalist who wish to dig deeper, which they certainly should.
So, yes, anti-semitism was apparent in both Part 1 & 2, how much this infects the UK Left is debatable, particularly given the membership of Palestine Live is global. As I’m not a member of that Group I can’t dig further, so am reliant on your honest feedback.
Moral of the tale, easier to sit in the Lion’s Den here and post, than post elsewhere if you desire to challenge the prevalence of anti-semitism within the UK Left, which most research demonstrates is far less than found on the Right, which includes the Tory Party, UKIP and plethora of fringe Rightists groups. This in now way excuses it though, but lets not confuse criticism of Zionism or Israel with anti-semitism please, a point i like to stress continually.
Chris
Thanks for that. Whether we see eye to eye or not, and we most certainly do not most of the time, yours is a well-considered response. One thing I must point out, which is your continual reference to English law and antisemitism. Being antisemitic isn’t against the law. Thankfully, rights are protected through laws of discrimination, not laws of thought. English law would not care if someone was an antisemite, it would need a victim, and then judge on laws regarding hate speech or discrimination – depending on the incident (this is as I understand it).
Rothschild Theory. I accept some conspiracies turn out to be fact. When that happens it is normally small ones involving a handful of government players and a few outside actors. The more people involved, the less likely it is. They also have a real logic to some of them. This is not one of those, nor should it be mentioned in an argument that suggests it is of that ilk. The Rothschild theory presents talk and linkage of Jews as a satanic cult, which becomes narrowed down further through the creation of a Zionist branch. These people are responsible for world war one, two and if it happened at all, also the Holocaust. It is a vile, antisemitic tale, working along the same lines as Protocols.
Regarding the number of posts. I did not need to count every post, I counted every post in a two week period. I am sure it is numerous. The other point which I cover in the blog is the % of actual antisemitic posts, which I considered a distraction and irrelevant. As since about 2016, the group has a habit of saying – not here, the other place, when it comes to Holocaust Denial, it would be errant to say the absence of Holocaust Denial posts is a sign of the absence of Holocaust deniers. They still appear, and certainly the comment section still has several, but the figure would be a tainted one. Importantly, you are not thrown out for propagating such talk. Similarly with the intense exercise to teach (say ZioNazi instead of JewNazi). In the mind of the user, they are one and the same, but only one would qualify for the report. Additionally, these people are human beings, the group reacts to outside events. If there are 50 posts about Valentines day, because it falls within the time period, or three birthdays occur – and so on – how much does the % content become distorted. It made far more sense, and produced a more accurate picture by simply focusing on the posters themselves. It was the proper way to remove subjectivity, error and misdirection from the research. The question was how many people share material, not how much material was shared – and the report asked and answered that question.
Regarding Corbyn and Chris. Note how I deal differently with them. I called Chris naive – no more. They were both members. You cannot post or even see the group without being in it. The report does not set out to say Corbyn is an antisemite, so the suggestion it does not show it, is mere distraction. Corbyn had over 30 interactions with Elleanne Green over an 18 month period – not counting those at events. On publicly available social media, it seems she was one of his top 2 or 3 interactions. They knew each other, met and spoke. His argument that ‘someone’ added him to the group, when she was the only admin at the time, is weak denial, as too is the idea he never looked around in Elleanne’s group. We all see these posts on social media, each and every one of us, if he says he didn’t, he is blind or lying. His departure as he became leader says as much. The problem isn’t Corbyn as antisemite, the problem, as the report shows, is how many people like this, attach themselves to Corbyn. He has a responsibility to deal with this more thoroughly, and it is that failure, which is the heart of my problem with his actions.
The JVL, Maddison issue is clear. These people publicly deny the existence of antisemitism (‘I have NEVER SEEN ANY’), whilst in the group they actively teach people to say ZioNazi instead of JewNazi without addressing the antisemitism at all. It is a masking exercise, masking racism, and they need to be brought to task because of it. If I walk into a Neo-Nazi group and I tell them to remember in public to say Black People and not use the ‘N’ word, whilst at the same time I shield this groups activity by publicly claiming I have met no racists, then I think it safe to say my activity is rotten to the core. Theirs is a hideous action that signals the true dangers. Not the % of antisemites, but those willing to shield them to protect the aims of their own ideology.
David,
As my one meeting is delayed, let me thank you for your considered response to my own views of your Report, undertaken in conditions many Journalists operate under, namely a brief skim through and perhaps two hours at most to to digest as much pertinent info as possible – Journalists have deadlines, weekend Journalists do not, unless its a story breaking on a Saturday or Sunday.
I trust you accept, my enquiries to you were without malice, I’d operate the same way if covering something of import myself that I was writing – namely, verify the messenger and ensure story as accurate as possible, ensuring balance in any article. Of course, I’m opinionated and can print my own opinion, or offer balance, which is a must for any news story.
I openly admit I belong to FSOI, I’ve been a member for perhaps a year, in which time I’ve not seen anything I’d personally object too, but, I don’t spend too much time on it. Alas your report has stirred a hornets nests, but this is acceptable – I’ve left a post on there requesting that the Mods pay attention to your Report and that anything that falls below acceptable parameters is removed and offenders warned or banned. Further, on my own FB page, I’ve requested under no circumstances are any of my limited friends allowed to enrol me in Groups without my express consent – so, your Report has resulted in some action on my personal behalf.
With regards Dr Maddison, I shall take the issue up with him personally, namely, the prevalence of anti-semitic references that can be associated with Left-leaning organisations, which of course alarms me. Alas, overplaying or exaggerating anti-semitism also alarms me. The politicisation of, and prevalence of faux anti-semitism, which is well documented I’m afraid to say must be confronted. And confront it I shall!
Given some rather alarming detail in your Report, I certainly don’t want to be associated with blatant anti-semitism, which, and lets be clear, was demonstrated in your Report. As Keynes observed, when the facts change my opinions change, which I trust some of my peers will digest.
Again though, I am unaware how many of those detailed in your report are members of the Labour Party, with the exception of three persons, two of whom are Ms Walker and Mr Goldstein – Goldstein of course having his membership revoked, however, its revocation was for attacking a MP, which, is legitimate.
To save both of us qualifying each other continually, or undertaking trawling of social media, my intent is similar to Mr Bellamy’s, namely, I’ll park my tank on your lawn and raise objections when necessary. With your small cohort of followers, i’m happy to trade insults. alas I’m also happy to offer a more reasoned approach, as I trust you and Ian are now aware.
I look forward to spending more time on your Report and sharing my own opinion, which of course will be from my Leftwing perspective.
I’m most happy to oppose anti-semitism and offer assistance in combating its prevalence where ever it my be found. However, I shall not conflate genuine criticism of Israel, or opposition to Zionism as anti-semitism, both are legitimate concerns if peace is to engender in the Holy Lands.
There is a huge gulf between acceptable political dialogue and overt racism. Of which, I’m hopeful I don’t engage in. Alas, none of us are angels I’m afraid!
“There is a huge gulf between acceptable political dialogue and overt racism. Of which, I’m hopeful I don’t engage in” – sure, sure. Denying only Jews the right of self-determination in their own country is not racist at all, at all …
The blindness of creeps like you to their own bigotry is something to behold.
I’ll refer you to Ian Kay’s post below and leave it there Leah. However, you do your cause considerable harm.
Nah. Musilm terrorism, murdering people all over the world, do you cause considerable harm.
Happy Nakba!
Edward- I wanted this comment section open to maintain dialogue. This is not dialogue. I deleted another comment today. I am out there spending 1000’s of hours investigating antisemitism, and I get tripped up because of cheap racist shit that you post. .I allow anti-Zionists to post here, with all their hate, for dialogue and discussion. In that this forum was unique. If you just want to hurl abuse – go elsewhere, but I don’t see how you have a problem with antisemites, if there is little difference between the way you talk and the way they do. The post I deleted was about religious attire. How would you handle someone attacking peyot or the dress of the Hasidim? I am deciding whether it is worth keeping the comment section open.
3/13/18
David, WOW. I am surprised.
Your post reminds me of the old joke where two Jews up against a wall, facing a firing squad. One Jew begins to shout angrily cursing the government, cursing the people who are about to execute them. The other Jew whispers to the first, “Shhh. Don’t make trouble”.
Apparently you are getting more mainstream attention due to your two-part post on anti-semitism in the Laboor Party. Good on ya. Frankly I don’t get to read your posts until later, TL;DR, when I have to wait for responses to my responses. Your posts are the foundation for posts from visitors to your blog – which I initially find more interesting.. IOW I spend more time reading the posts from visitors than your content. I’m sure I’m not alone. That applies to other blogs I visit too.
What exactly have I written that is “racist”???
And what’s wrong with being racist to racists??? During WW2, was it be wrong to say terrible things about nazis, germans, japanese, mussolini , arab nazis, grand mufti?
Is it wrong to slam the sinister screwy louie farraklan and his racist “nation of islam” cult AND the people who have smiling selfies taken with him???
Are “palestinians” a tiny minority race? Are 1.5 billion Muslims a trembling, bloodied minority needing protection?
Are Gaza, Ramallah, Jenin “refugee camps” filled with poor refugees wearing worn out clothing, living in tattered canvas tents, emaciated, flies around their heads, begging for food?
Considering the vile crap the deaf, dumb and blind fake “anti-Zionist” crowd post, unchallenged, what’s wrong with slapping them back????
WW2 was not won in the Opinion section of the paper or the Peace Table. It was won when the good guys bombed the crap out of nazi germany and imperial japan, destroying their ability to wage war.
Considering the fascist racist crap the British MSM broadcast and publish, what British Islamist and
Socialist “peace”, “anti-war” organizations promote, I welcome you blog, among many others, for giving a
forum for people to respond in kind. Shocking!
Of course you may not see things my way, but if you want to martyr yourself over attacks from “anti-Zionist racists”, go ahead. It’s your dime and time.
I’d be interested in hearing what you have to say, what your motivations are.
You seem to be willing to debate anti-semites on your blog, so I’d expect you’d also be willing to debate people who slap back at racists that post smears against Jews and Israel. That should also be worth your time.
As you say, The Truth Matters, but Truth doesn’t automatically win because someone writes the truth. Truth gets kicked to the gutter as the Lies steamroll over the Truth.
As someone once said, “A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes”.
Edward
I don’t have any real motivations beyond fairness and an anti-racist stance Edward, and nobody is telling you to take off the gloves here. I am personally rather a moderate and fit well within the Israeli spectrum of those who would grab at peace, if ever anyone serious came along on the other side. I did spend years working inside PA areas, and still have many contacts there. If you want to hit ideologies, groups, organisations, specific actions and so on – I have no problem. My general rule is simple – if I took this comment and made it about Jews, how would it look? I do that because then I understand it better. Hitting someone for the way they dress for example – how does it play out in relation to Jews? I consider Israeli Arabs full and equal citizens of Israel, so an attack that could be applied to them, would be an attack on an Israeli citizen. Some of them wear Islamic head coverings, and if you said to one of them in Israel what you said here, I would have pulled you up on it. I wouldn’t hesitate to stand up for them against a person who made an offensive comment about their religious attire, just as if I saw someone go for a Hassid from Stamford Hill, I’d defend them too. They are after all, fellow citizens. When you turn it from an ideological battle into a personal one, it crosses a line. I am sure you can live within that sort of restriction – it isn’t difficult.
I am a busy guy – this is a relatively non-moderated comment board- lets not cross lines please.
Sure, sure – the Jew-hating trolls here never post anti-Jew racist stuff. Do you delete their posts?
no
or extremely rarely.
So, David, you treat antisemites better than you treat Zionists.
Are you joking Leah – am I really the person you can say that to!! It isn’t really that difficult to understand. I deal in outing racists, people who have issues with Jews. That means many of the people who will come here to argue with me, have major hang-up’s. Yet in fairness, I want at least to give them the ‘right of reply’. So I make allowances. I am spending 1000’s of hours investigating them to fight against them. Their appearance here is a result of that work. I believe in free speech, accept they will be annoyed, so permit certain transgressions.
On the other side of the coin,I have no interest in blindly standing alongside or supporting those who cross the line just because we are all ‘Zionists’. I can be disappointed when we do not behave the way that we should and can display less tolerance for people who have no reason to be angry here at all. It isn’t difficult to understand. Look at what is going on with ‘Punish a Muslim day’ – this is not a thing we can ignore. This level of extremism and hate has real victims and people who are just getting on with their lives, going out to work to put food on their table, are being victimised. Should I sit idly by when someone here crosses the line and it is brought to my attention? Because if you haven’t already noticed – I am not a ‘sit on my hands’ kind of person.
Just the usual creepy nonsense. Jews no longer tug their forelocks to vile creatures like you in the hope of currying favour. Scuttle back under your stone, creep.
I’m off on my travels for a few days as of Monday, so won’t have access to the internet. However, I hope to contribute further to this dialogue upon my return to my residency – no doubt Edward and Leah will be ecstatic!!!
You have never contributed anything of the slightest value, you pathetic swivel-eyed creep.
;-(
I’m going to take your messages at face value Chris. Frankly I’m bored rigid with the way that most of the response threads unfold here but not so naive as to question why. I’m sure that the tiny clutch of activists on both sides are getting a lot of self gratification from their posts here but I’ve never been one of them so it’s all just shouting obscenities at strangers or crafting cheap propaganda collateral to share elsewhere in the irrelevant margins of social media.
I have to say you’re right in one thing, namely a focus on the present. All the history lessons and retrospectives are not going to change what I see from my window today. The people that created this present will be the ones that will, in all likelihood determine their own future and that is us. That will be a future where we continue to live safely and securely in our own borders, managing our own affairs and creating futures for our children and grandchildren in which antisemitism will never be a part. Ideally it will also be a future of peaceful coexistence with our Arab citizens and our neighbours. We want this and although this simply does not fit with the narrative of our opponents you will have to at least hear this from me and form your own view.
I honestly believe that for many people that have decades of deep ingrained antipathy towards Israel and their own interpretation of Zionism nothing will ever change, ever! I can do nothing about this and wouldn’t even try. You may be one of these people and it is for you to determine whether writing things on the internet about my religion and my country is the best things that you can do with the life that you have left. Railing against people like me may, for you, be your best call. I’ve made my decision and as I said, I judge that this is the most worthwhile thing I can do to provide the best life for my family and I would never tap a single key stroke of apology for this.
I will continue to support David’s work here. Viewing it through my own lens he is simply reporting on prejudice towards Jews in the UK. That this needs doing is not in dispute and as you have agreed it is something that ought to be encouraged whenever the incidence of discrimination or persecution arises.
Ian,
A considered response, so let me enlighten you with the fact I care for all our children, hence one reason why I’m a eco-socialist at heart. I’m sick of war and the horrors of war and seriously desire to put an end to it. I yearn for a honourable settlement in the Holy Lands, such a settlement is for those directly involved to make it happen. So, if Israel requires a prod, I’ll prod, if Palestine, or what remains of it requires a prod, I’ll prod.
Again, I’m horrified at kids suffering at the hands of Occupation Forces, we have witnessed this on the UKs shores and its most harmful, its not irredeemable though, a point I wish to stress. Please, no more excuses, the region deserves peace and you folk in Israel can make it happen.
There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’, you utterly thick ignorant creep.
“the region deserves peace and you folk in Israel can make it happen” – yup, if only those pesky Israelis agreed to commit mass-suicide …
The Arabs have no agency and no responsibility, it’s nothing to do with them.
And this creep is not remotely aware of how racist this position is.
Narcissis, If only Muslims could stop killing Muslim as they have for 1,400 years, unicorns would come out of hiding, prance and the sky would be filled with rainbows – every day.
But it ain’t gonna happen.
I speak for nobody other than myself Chris when I say that Israel can contribute to making peace happen and with a partner of similar predisposition we will be on our way. We have demonstrated a sincere appetite for this in the past and in the right circumstances will probably do so again. This is certainly an excuse and has been since Olmert and Barack had a go without success. That’s just how things are. The fact here is that despite all of the acres of angst tapped out by the diaspora activists on either side, mostly to serve their own agendas there is simply no trust between the Jews and the Arabs, none whatever and until such time as this changes, nothing will change.
I note the depressing return of the default name calling here this morning and I think that serves as a perfect mirror of the status quo over here. It is a pointless pursuit but does provide the two or three seconds worth of gratification that enables the poster to sit back and say “Ha! That told them”
Hopefully there will be the odd interlude of rational behaviour but I’m managing my anticipation….
Ian,
i’ll put any political differences aside and stand shoulder to shoulder with you to ensure an honourable peace within the Holy Lands. The gutter politics is but gutter politics. So, lets not let differences get in the way of a drive for peace. Show me the road and I’ll follow it with a kick in my stride.
I think that the point at which people with a genuine interest in making a positive contribution to an issue, are prepared to talk with their fiercest opponents or most avowed enemies in a way that is reasonable and civilised and most importantly open minded there may be some hope.
I liked the words of Tim Minchin; “They say that opinions are like arse-holes. Everyone has one. But unlike arse-holes, opinions should be thoroughly examined, regularly and often.”
Perhaps it will be the conciliators rather than the proctologists that will inherit the earth.
Ian,
Your response has put a smile on my face and elicits hope.
May I request that maybe we behave civil to each other moving forward, I’ve enjoyed your more considered contributions and deeply respect that you post under your real name I trust?
I don’t particularly desire to be a ‘arse hole’ and prefer to adhere to the advice that a very wise African American political academic issues, namely, exhibit respect and utilise the power of persuasion.
Not having several PhDs, I’m hardly in a position to argue with his noble advice, so perhaps I’d best adhere to it myself.
I have no interest in hiding behind a veil of anonymity. Neither have I any interest in the sort of crass behaviour that typifies so much of social media. I have no ambition to change minds nor even to push my views on anyone. I am simply here to support an endeavour I believe to be worthwhile. I have no association with David and probably will never meet him but I do dislike the people that come to criticise in order to push their own agendas. But as Bellers says, for him and others, ” c’est la guerre”
David,
I have finished reading both parts of your report. The level of anti-Semitism, or raw Jew-hatred, is indeed extreme in “Palestine Live.” The constant repetition of various conspiracy theories about Jews was amazing. Anyone who says that there is “nothing to see here” after reading your report either does not know what anti-Semitism is, has become completely desensitized to it, or is an anti-Semite themselves. Congratulations on some great work.
I don’t know if you were aware that your report was recently referenced in Haaretz, which reprinted an article from JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency). The article was about several unnamed members of the British Labour Party being suspended who were also members of “Palestine Live.”
thanks – I hadn’t been aware of the Ha’aretz pick up.
David, I saw your post about the continuation of this comment section and have some sympathy. In the end, you are the gaffer here and you will design and present this space as you see fit and in a way that suits your objectives. Couple of things that may be worth considering;
1. The tactics of disruption take many forms. Over here, whenever it looks like one side or other may be about to make some traction in their positions some rogue element from either side throws a timely spanner into the works to ensure that everything goes back to square one. Some of the contributors here appear more than capable of wielding a handy spanner in their attempt to subvert civilised, normal dialogue and achieve their objectives. Certainly the removal of the section would mitigate this altogether, but it would feel a little like playing into the hands of others.
2. This section continues to serve as a unique archive that informs on the nature of online activism during the period. It is clearly a bi-product but a useful one nonetheless. Great examples of this are contained in the thread above. As well as the predictable name calling, offensive posturing and tactical deflections you also have the introduction of a genuine holocaust sceptic, smoked out as a result of your subject matter. Notwithstanding the unsophisticated presentation of his case, the contributor has been compelled by your report to appear from the shadows and present himself and his arguments to the wider public gaze. This is interesting for many reasons. Not least it will allow researchers in times to come to see that in 2018, a time when survivors were still around to present their testimonies and Germans were mature enough to accept culpability, there were still people on the fringes who were prepared to say “Oh no you didn’t…and anyway it couldn’t have been that bad”. This may seem quite remarkable to people in the future.
I think that your extraordinary fairness and toleration in allowing a sort of self management of this section is a huge credit to you. Certain contributors can take the direct attacks too far and you have legislated for this as we have seen. But for the most part I think that this remains a very unique space and an important record of the development of antisemitism in the UK and of the nature online activism at this time. I guess that when future reports appear here we will have our answer.
(Exits stage left carrying coat.)
These people cannot handle free speech. They do not understand the difference between an open forum that allows for all opinion, and a closed one where dissent is evicted. I am leaving the comment section here for now, because I don’t want my agenda driven by some of the sort I allow on here. I do ask all the people engaged to remember this forum is almost un-moderated and it is certainly UNIQUE in its attempts to allow for all sides to give their views in fair fashion. I fully oppose all racist ,sexist, homophobic ideologies, so I would ask, that within the political and historical discussion that takes place – that these are not presented. I do not believe there is a place for them anywhere, and certainly do not want to have to stop providing access to this special place because people cannot see the difference between legitimate discussion, permissible anger and unacceptable abuse.
Well thanks for that Ian. Ayway I wanted you to be among the first to know, with you being so empathetic vis a vis these issues.
I decided it was time for Gnasher to have a brother or a sister. The reasoning being that if he had some competition for my affections it might make him more affectionate.
So off we go Saturday to the local cat rescue centre to choose a cat. So they show us around and we see all these cute puddy cats looking up at me with wide imploring eyes. Then there was this scruffy black bundle in its sphinx position scowling at me through squinty eyes. I take a step forward and it hisses and spits at me.
I said whats this cats story ? This woman said it was born ferral and was ferral for the first year of its life. We captured it with a view to speying it and either homing it or letting it back out. Little did we know she was already pregnant and four days later there was these four kittens. We homed them but mother is more difficult. I said how long has she been here ? She said 18 months. I said if she keeps hissing and spitting at the customers she will likely be here forever. Ok we will have her.
The woman said we were a pair of angels !!!!!!!
The woman said are you taking her now. I said no, we aren’t kitted out for her we will get her tomorrow. She said well ring me before you come and I will have here in the cat carrier ready. She didn’t me to witness the kerfuffle of getting her into the carrier case I changed my mind. She didn’t know we weren’t the IOF, we are Irish and not afraid of a fair fight.
Anyway you will be pleased to know that so far its been a whole heap of fun, even if the asbestos gloves were expensive.
Unhinged hate-dripping nonsense, as per.
Stephen
Wow…
Anti-Semitism… Look here is a kitty… Duhhhhhhhh
At least it was less malicious than your other attempts to attract the attention onto David and away from the content of the report.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want to comment on the report itself. It’s pretty fucking damning. So, irrespective of labour party leadership involvement &/or knowledge &/or their possible culpability by ommision or commission, there is a clear problem with a segment of the rank and file on the far left. If you don’t recognise that, there is little hope for you…
Peach
There is still the outstanding issue of her name Peach. My wife wants to call her Ian but I am a bit dubious about that.
Oh I will be commenting on the alleged ” substance ” of the ” report” Peach and at considerable length
73% of the non-Jewish posters sharing material on Palestine Live in February 2018 – are people who promote hard-core antisemitic material. Knock yourself out.
Stephen,
Very much looking forward to your in-depth analysis, although it would appear some folk allegedly tarnished by this Report and then suspended from the Labour Party have had the Suspension lifted. So, that’s positive news, that and the fact not too many LP members were actually active on the PL site – can’t speak for non-members of course, but not as bad as initially considered when I actually reviewed the Report.
How’s the cat naming going – Gnasher sounds quite a vicious cat, so obviously may need neutering at the vets.
nobody was tarnished by the report and then reinstated. My report explicitly states that beyond being present Secker did nothing – he barely even posted – which is probably why it was lifted. As for the Labour members. The Background image for the site was Labour against the witch hunt and the only recommended group was Free Speech on Israel (the pre-JVL group) – so let us not play down the connection.
Funny David,
But between your PL report coming to life, and my own little trip to UK, FSOI has witnessed several ‘sock puppet’ accounts re-submitting comments and linking to articles from several sources detailed in your Report. Suffice to say, prompt action has been taken and these posts and account holders removed – of course, you are not interested in such facts, but some of us are vigilant and notice these things.
Now to get the GnasherJew Twitter account fully closed down, which is a disgrace. I note they Blocked me for calling them out for what they are – seems strong willed persons are not their cup of tea.
Several more complaints are going to the Labour Party about this account – although, the Compliance Unit is never interested, alas with McNicol and his female henchman now both leaving, things may change promptly this week.
Chris, firstly I am sure you would accept that ‘sock puppets’ have been created to attack and abuse me too. Not that you would care about that. On a side note, Gnasher is nothing to do with me AS ANYBODY who had read my report would know.
I’m very happy to help you combat sock puppets. Indeed, when doing so, particularly on FB, I check the sock puppets history, posts and other stuff. How these sock puppets are allowed on to any moderated site beats me – I’d ban them full stop, However, I’m only a moderator of one group that deals with Broadband, so, don’t get any sock puppets whatsoever.
Never understood them. The idea that one person can have dozens of different accounts and use them to effectively hound a person just because they disagree with him – that’s not my world at all. If you cannot say something to someone face to face – don’t say it at all. I’ve seen people driven off social media because they get 1000’s of abusive notifications from absolutely nobody who is identifiable.
Hey, I’m trending in the Bellersphere just below allegorical pets and Seville football club. Not much on antisemitism in the UK but I suppose it’s a question of priorities. Like the fictional felines, an imagined audience won’t feed itself.
Seville football club ?
Dunno why you going on about Sevilla. My team is AC Livorno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZCM06k8yfc
Stephen,
Don’t know anything about Italian football, but Cardiff City won their game in the Championship last night – so many happy faces in South Wales.
I go to Bristol a lot and from Portishead you can see Cadiff !!!
When Livorno were in Serie A I saw a home game versus the fascists club Lazio. What an experience.
Stephen, these type of posts will be removed.
David. Please be advised that if anything “happens” to my friend Elleanne over this I (and many, many other) of her friends will hold your personally responsible.
I am an investigative journalist who produced a report on antisemitism within a group she founded and managed. She herself posted a ridiculous amount of unacceptable posts. She is a leading part of a large and powerful group that spreads horrific lies about Jews and Israel. Countless Jews inside the UK have become intimidated because of the hatred spread through propagating lies like this. As anyone in my field of work would do, I publicised my findings. There is nothing personal in any of this. If she needs counseling or emotional support, then as you are her friend I suggest you assist.
Further, as I understand it, this is because of a letter from a charity that fights antisemitism. Why have you come to me?
Powerful ? Seriously ?
yes, it is hardly a meeting of the Hastings chess club.
That hardly addresses the question of power. But anyway, by the same token, you guys could have got your mate Jason some emotional help but you prefer to blame Tony Greenstein.
The fact you equate my report with Tony’s highlights everything that is wrong with you and your arguments Stephen.
Arguments??? From Bellend??????
Have never seen any.
David you really are deluded, and a poor sensitive little flower. Some posts may have been unacceptable, but not very many. The only post you picked up of mine was my praising of Jenny Tonge. What the fuck are you talking about? Large and powerful group that spreads lies…etc? There were certainly a tiny number of inappropriate comments, that’s all. Your own blog contains far more blatantly racist quotes bordering on hate speech (by Edward for instance) who you allow to continue to post. Do you give a toss about the much larger and much more powerful group called the Israel Lobby that promotes racism and violence toward Palestinians in the Apartheid State of Israel? No, of course you don’t because you’re just a typical racist Zionist pig, happy to destroy other’s lives from your laptop but too scared to meet face to face (with me for instance). So I’m going to call you what you are, a coward of the lowest form; making money by appealing to the lowest common denominator gutter “journalism” and not giving a toss for real humanity. I don’t care about your “justification” regarding Elleane’s treatment and how you may try to squirm your pathetic little way out of it. If anything happens to her as a result of all this shit, I will hold YOU responsible.
Mike. I don’t link to Nazi sites, I don’t share white supremacy stuff and I don’t post anything racist. Why? Because I abhor it. Racism, which unfortunately seems to be a human trait we cannot shake, is as rampant now as it was before. Scratch the surface, and all the nasties come crawling out. Palestine Live was a sewer and the people inside simply do not see it. The level of people posting on that site who also share hard-core material was off the chart. You yourself suggested that hating Jews, shouldn’t be held against someone who had denied the Holocaust. That in a rambling video that was set up to suggest Holocaust ‘revisionists’ don’t actually deny the Holocaust, they merely discount all the major elements of it. Or in other words there is no such thing as a ‘serious Holocaust denier’.
In addition, and it is a mistake you have just made – I only posted examples of what was shared by those involved (in PL and elsewhere) and refrained from posting many others because I didn’t need to expand the report to 600 pages unnecessarily just to name other people found or post more images than neccessary. This report wasn’t about individuals, it was about the quantification of the problem, the power base it engages with and the twisted ideologies shared by both the active admins. Don’t you get it? If you hadn’t of posted on a specific thread I was interested in (needed to use for the research goals) – you wouldn’t have been included in the research. It was never about you, nor the other individuals. Which means many individuals were not placed into the report, despite them qualifying for it. All you are doing is deflection.
I’ll ignore all your comments about Israel because they are based on ignorance. Anyone who feels comfortable in a group that gets its fix from mycatbirdseat.com. veteranstoday.com, globalresearch, theuglytruth, atzmon, Icke and O’Keefe, isn’t going to be seeing straight and should be put through detox rather than attacked.
I said I’d meet – just near me, not by you. You have since threatened me twice, and then still expect me to go to your local pub? Okay. that sounds normal. Go detox Mike – you are seriously in need of it.
David. I have not threatened you, I merely said I would hold you responsible. It would be a police matter in which you would be implicated and I’d make damn sure that they would know your blog has whipped up hatred against Elleanne. As to your charges of me and the “holocaust” thing, it is nothing to do with Palestine Live, and you are displaying childish ignorance because you miss entirely the point I’m making. It is however nice to see (from your blog) that some people have watched my debate and have consequently been surprised and educated about the issue (most people beforehand being ignorant like you). I daresay you won’t have read any of Irving’s books in order to understand what he’s saying so you’ll always stay ignorant. It’s not my local pub by the way, it’s a nice hotel about midway between me and the M25. Any more excuses?
Sumners Eve,
Irving? David Irving? The racist fascist David Irving?
Irving v Penguin Books Ltd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd
How did Irving’s Libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt publisher work out?
Happy Nakba!
Sumner’s Eve, Why not meet at the BBC??? A debate. Let all see and hear and laugh at you.
And you shared KKK David Duke posts because?
Sumner’s Eve, Your attempts to lure someone to meet you at a “nice hotel” make you sound like a shirt lifter AKA child molester.
Are you???
Mike sumner
Where is your bile, your upsurge of anger, you righteous indignation about even “a tiny number of inappropriate comments”? Surely one is one too many.
You may not realise this but the way that your diatribe reads is like an unhinged [Jew] hater who is using all of the oldest tropes in the book, simply replacing Jew with Israel/Zionist. Your tone really amplifies this so thanks for making the point so clearly.
Also, is this the way that you communicate in the real world or just on-line? YOU might wish to consider that last sentence. David might be used to this but the threatening nature of the last sentence is not acceptable on-line or in person.
Peach
PS- Chris, you stated above that you would stand “shoulder to shoulder” against anti-Semtism. In what category do you place Mike’s post?
Peach – don’t waste your breath:
https://david-collier.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/sumner1.jpg
Thanks for this David. Hopefully lots of folks will watch this and realize what a vile bunch of people you low-life zionist scum actually are. Cheers
David, any chance of blocking the swivel-eyed little shit Sumner?
Sumners Eve, You sound like a real-life Franz Leibkind from “The Producers”.
Chill out dude.
Mike you are so far locked into your ‘bubble’, that I don’t think you realise how normal people perceive things. Normal people do not view someone sticking up for David Irving and think to themselves ‘oh – maybe he has a point’. They don’t watch someone share David Duke posts and think it justified. They don’t hear a person suggest hating Jews isn’t a reason to discount that person’s historical work on Jewish events and say ‘that’s logical’. Normal people are not viewing this exchange the way you think they are. I doubt they view with favour a Holocaust revisionist who shares truly dodgy material, turning up on this blog and verbally abusing me either. I can pretty much assure you that this doesn’t look the way you think it does.
Thank fuck I’m not normal (like you comatosed puppets) then David.
lol. like you’re not verbally abusing me?..duh. what an idiot you are.
Still not sure why you shared KKK David Duke posts. Well I am pretty sure actually, but I’d like to hear the way you spin it.
That’s because I’m interested in what people have to say David. I don’t necesarrily discount the value of someone’s opinion just because of their (repented) past. I’ve even listened to (and appreciated) a few Zionists in my time. You see David, it’s a kind of glass ceiling of knowledge that if you’re brave enough to break through you’ll discover soooo much more about history. Makes me feel empowered. I even go far as to “hang around” with left-wing people sometimes, but that does not make me a murdering Bolshevik. What do you think of Winston Churchill? He said some vile things about Jews in 1922 (in think it was…), and goodness knows what his private thoughts must have been. How about Pres Truman who did so much to further the Zionist cause. Former KKK member. And this is what he had to say about Jews: “The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I’ve found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes.” Did you know about that David? Neither Churchill or Truman are heroes of mine, they are both war criminals, however I still read their memoirs because I want knowledge. See how it works David?
Of course I see how it works. However, I do not do many things. Here are two of them:
1. Disconnect a person from the time (mindset) in which he lived. It is a great tool for smearing, but has no value in real discussion. I grew up with TV that had ‘Love thy Neighbour’ on at prime-time. It isn’t the same as if a TV station tried to do one like that now. Society changes. Only a fool would judge the ethical positions of past characters by today’s standards.
2. Use the thoughts of someone who is racist, in relation to the field in which his racism would interfere with his point of view. If you promote the ‘how to cook a chicken’ recipe of a racist – it is still a how to cook a chicken recipe. I might question why you are using that source if others are available, but you are still just handing out recipes. If you promote the racist views of a racist, you are promoting racism.
Sumners Eve, Here’s a Youtube of a newsreel from May 8, 1945. I hope you like it. It features some of the people you love. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n96hb8Uqb8g
To add further to my confusion David, Churchill also said this: “For it may be that, unwittingly, they are inviting persecution — that they have been partly responsible for the antagonism from which they suffer.”
“The central fact which dominates the relations of Jew and non-Jew is that the Jew is ‘different.’ He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background. He refuses to be absorbed.”
You see, I’d call that anti-semitism. What I would not call anti-semitism is the criticism of a political system (like if you criticize Nazism you’re not criticizing “German people”), but you stated that anti-zionism and anti-semitism are one and the same thing. Yet Churchill was a fervent Zionist. I think you said something like “Anti-Zionism = Anti-semitsm” (therefore Anti-Semitism must therefore equal Anti-Zionism). How does this square with Churchill’s views. Is it the case that as long as one supports Zionism one can say the most vile things against Jews. I’m truly confused David. Could you please explain this anomaly? thanks.
Ignoring the straw man about the existence of wide-spread antisemitism throughout society in pre-war Europe. I don’t and I haven’t equated them Mike – it was a response made to a specific comment that clearly renders them the same. There are loads of comments I have made here where I explicitly rejection the equation. I do believe they are indivisible, like Malaria and a swamp, but I do not equate them.
Ok. I think I get it now David. You “select” the things you like about people and ignore others. How far do you go back in your forgiveness by the way? Dukes membership of the KKK was 1980s. Different time? I tend not tio forgive most Zionists because they are preaching things like this:
” (The Palestinians are) beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
“The Palestinians” would be crushed like grasshoppers … heads smashed against the boulders and walls.” ” Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988.
“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.
“How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to.” Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.
“Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.” Ayelet Shaked
These the sort of people you hang around with…?
Nonsense. Stop taking stuff from propaganda sites. You come with English versions rather than what, if anything was said in Hebrew. The idea that an Israeli PM would have used the term ‘Palestinians’ in 1988 is highly strange to say the least. These are for the most part brutally distorted and / or fake quotes.
Mike – I don’t do rabbit holes. I know you are a conspiracy theorist and propagandist, and I know the way they work. I spent some time in the archives, and to do what you do is easy. 1000 documents in one file on the Haganah activity. Contributions from 50 different civil servants. All with different styles and opinions. The work of a historian is to unravel a picture. Yet with people like you, if one document is in there you can use – you do – even if the other 999 dispute the claim (the example you gave on Arab casualties the other day is a perfect example of this strategy). It isn’t history Mike, nor is it serious debate. It’s empty and devoid of all historicity. I am an anti-racist, and I fight racists. I support the existence of Israel and the fundamental ethical imperative behind Zionism. Suggesting as you do that this implies ‘support’ for every comment ever made by an Israeli is more than absurd
It means everyone who waves a union jack supports every comment made by every person inside. You’re nuts. Sorry.
Absolutely agree with the last bit of what you just said David. Why then do you accuse me of being/believing/doing exactly what others believe? What a bigot you are. It’s like you feel you can disassociate yourself from all the evils of Zionism (and it’s evil personalities) and just choose the good bits? That’s like saying you admire Nazi Germany because at least the trains ran on time and the economy worked well. And you simply dismiss those quotes I gave you as fake. Really, they are all made up? All of them? The Truman quote comes straight out of his own diary from The Truman Library. Check it yourself. Go live in your little dreamworld David, there’s a good chap. By the way the figures (about Jewish terrorism) I gave you come from Prof. William Cook, author of several books incl The Plight of The Palestinians. Hey, how about meeting half way to do that debate David? I think that’s pretty fair, or do you have more excuses…?
Mike, how many fake quotes does it take? I don’t think you understand the way propaganda and demonisation works that you suggest because one may be true, and another distorted rather than fake – then we have to buy the entire picture you are selling. Mike your position is untenable and shameless. How many of these would you have produced in a debate? Where the people listening don’t have the time or inclination to research for themselves they are being sold a pack of lies?
How about these David? All fake? Leiberman: “Those who are with us deserve everything, but those who are against us deserve to have their heads chopped off with an axe.”
“The vision I would like to see here is the entrenching of the Jewish and the Zionist state…. I very much favour democracy, but when there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important.”
“World War II ended with the Nuremberg trials. The heads of the Nazi regime, along with their collaborators, were executed. I hope this will be the fate of the collaborators in [the Knesset].”
“If it were up to me, I would notify the Palestinian Authority tomorrow at 10 in the morning we would bomb all their places of business in Ramallah, for example… I would not hesitate to send the Israeli army into all of Area A for 48 hours. Destroy the foundation of all the authority’s military infrastructure, all of the police buildings, the arsenals, all the posts of the security forces… not leave one stone on another. Destroy everything.”
Neftali Bennet:
“I’ve killed lots of Arabs in my life – and there’s no problem with that.”
The land is ours”: that is pretty much the end of the debate. “I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel”
Livni:
“Israel demonstrated real hooliganism during the course of the recent operation, which I demanded.”
All fake David? How can you defend these monsters?
Mike they are a nation at war. I don’t need to defend these people (Israelis). They need to and are quite capable of defending themselves. Wartime isn’t like peacetime and Nottingham is not like Kiryat Shemona. What you are doing now is the work of an ‘internet troll’ on an anonymous forum that simply seeks to score empty points. All these people have spent most of their lives fighting enemies that seek to eradicate them. Some of the comments would certainly not be supported by me, but then I am not here to support every comment. In return I could go and get 100’s of truly horrific quotes from Palestinians. Is this how you debate? None of this is relevant, and everything you produce is out of context. Take Naftali Bennet:
Not that you are interested in truth, as you use of such quotes taken out of context clearly shows us. You want distortion, you need to demonise, and for whatever reason (actually not for whatever reason – the reason is really quite clear) you have bought into the entire demonisation package.
See, it is like this discussion. People will pour over my comments to see how I responded when presented with unacceptable Lieberman comments. And if my behaviour to you at any point slips, or I make some sort of mistake that can be twisted, that will be held against me. At no point will context ever be applied. No-one will ever say – ‘you have to remember, he was talking to someone who promoted Holocaust ‘revision’ and shared David Duke posts’. We have to hold ourselves to higher standards and we are most certainly judged by them
I told you, I don’t do rabbit holes, and I won’t get into an online tit-for-tat with someone who is posting such nonsense.
Don’t forget David, those last quotes I gave you are not made by people on the fringes of Israeli society, they are actual Government Ministers. If you discount them then you may as well discount Hermann Goering from German Government policy.
Do you actually have any actual points in your locker or is everything just mindless, distorted or fake propaganda. On a comment board about a group where 70% of those people sharing posts, promote hard-core antisemitism – what is your actual point?
You know for a minute then David it looked like you were excusing these vile people. Wait…you are! Israel is not a nation at war David. The “war” is over. Israel is an occupying power. If you truly believe that Israeli politicians/ministers are justified in their actions/words/thoughts then you truly are sick. Even if they were at war your excusing them is utterly contemptible. Do you excuse Hitler, Goebbels, Goering et al for saying/doing what they did because they were “at war”? You make these ridiculous excuses but at the end of the day you are justifying blatant racism, hatred and war crimes….and you’re making yourself look stupid.
David said: “Do you actually have any actual points in your locker or is everything just mindless, distorted or fake propaganda. ” Yes David…..I think that’s where it all started: Your fake propaganda…
Oh Mike. You are on a thread about hard-core antisemitism. Lots of it. In a group you feel comfortable with. White supremacy stuff. Outside of your bubble, many decent people attached to the Palestinian cause are horrified, some were in the group and left because of the far -right leaning…. And all you can do is this? That’s your response to real racism? It’s absolutely shameful. Your entire presence here has been a shameful experience..
David. you really are making a lot of stupid assumptions. Not once have I defended anti-semitism, far right, white supremacy etc etc. I have defended Truth and I do defend free speech on the holocaust. Sorry but I do. I have also tried to show people what so-called Holocaust revisionists (what you would call deniers) actually think (as most people don’t actually know…and are usually surprised when they do).
The FB post you illustrated is not one I’m familiar with but if the post they are complaining about is truly anti-semitic, i.e. promotes hatred toward Jewish people then I would agree with you – it should have been deleted. However, I haven’t seen the post; if it is what YOU call anti-semitism then I’d have to ask is it truly so or is is antiZionist? Let’s not forget that cartoon by Naz Shah was deemed “ant-semitic”. Most people in their right mind would disagree.
You found a cartoon of mine which was blatantly anti-semitic, but you failed to put it in context: I was arguing the point with “Charlie Hebdo free-speech” supporters who said that it should be permissible to publish anything. I therefore posted a load of very controversial cartoons asking them if they felt they were acceptable (including anti-jewish ones). that shut most people up (which makes me feel they felt it was ok as long as the offences were made against muslims & christians but not jews). That’s where the Julius Streicher thing came in. Devil’s advocate you see, David?
You accuse me of the most vile beliefs when you know very little about them. You discard my quotes by Israel’s leaders as fake. Well if all you say is true then Israel must be a beacon of democracy, equal rights and fairness. However the EVIDENCE proves the contrary. Amnesty International, B’t Salem, The ICJ, UN all disagree with you. I DO NOT support the things you (and a few other trolls) have accused me of but you admit you DO support this vile racist regime.
You say you could produce similar quotes by Palestinians. I dare say you could (one could find thousands of quotes from people of all nations like that); but here’s the difference David: My quotes are from GOVERNMENT MINISTERS, see?
You’re actually the worst kind of “denier”. Do you deny that Israel’s 6th Prime Minister planted the bomb in the King David hotel that killed around 90 people? Do you deny Ben Gurion planned to destroy those villages? You’re living in a dreamland David. Time to wake up.
Mike. I am not interested in your rabbit hole propaganda driven deflections. You don’t just defend ‘free speech’. You promoted David Duke. You suggested that hating Jews shouldn’t discount a persons research into Jews. These are not ‘free speech’ arguments anymore than suggesting drunk people shouldn’t drive is an attack on people’s freedom. You are ‘blurring’ as people often do in the support of the indefensible. Only you are not doing it with alcohol, you are doing it with racism.
The FB post I illustrated doesn’t just reference a bad cartoon – it talks about Palestine Live as a whole. Here are so more from people who are disgusted with the group. I doubt they’d agree with you regardless of how much they may hate me:
So unlike other people who support the Palestinian cause you are here defending racists. Why, only you can really decide. Everyone else watching of course will draw their own conclusions.
I don’t think it’s worth responding to your first comment David. I guess you’ll just never understand. Your charge that I’m defending racists, well I’m not quite sure what you mean. I admitted Irving is a racist and I don’t excuse it. But lots of our country’s heroes are racists (like Churchill) and they are still read, and celebrated. And like it or not I’m not going to stop reading someone’s works because I don’t agree with ther racial views (otherwise I’d never watch another Shakespear play). Israel’s government is full of racists (now!) and you DO defend them. On the FB front, I have not defended any racist comments (you seem to delude yourself about that). I said that any AS comments are unacceptable and should be removed. You’ve shown me these complaints but you still haven’t shown me the actual “AS” comments so I can decide for myself whether I think they are AS or just AZ.
You have not addressed any of my points about Jewish Zionist Terror. Do you really believe none of these things happened? Do you really doubt the word of B’t Salem, Amnesty International, The Red Cross, UN etc etc.
Take a look at the video below David. Yu will see IDF “soldiers” trying to prevent medical treatment of Palestinians. If you say “Israel is at war” then that is a War Crime. It is at the very least a disgusting display of the lowest form of depravity. I guess you’ll say it’s all just made up, they they are just actors…
https://www.facebook.com/JewishVoiceforPeace/videos/10157198439719992/
you are building straw men as a deflection. I have no interest. Your arrival here, was in response to a report about hard-core antisemitism in a Facebook group you are part of. Your only contribution here has been to attack me and to suggest my report was misguided. As can be seen all over pro-Palestinian forums, you are defending the indefensible. Many pro-Palestinian activists are reviled by the type of people you are comfortable hanging out with. A simple ‘actually, you may have a point’ would have sufficed. As it is, you have descended into continual propaganda, using false quotes, taking stuff out of context, and using Pallywood to support your case. This to deflect from your membership of a a FB group that shares Holocaust Denial, Rothschild Conspiracy, and every antisemitic slur that exists. There is no depth to your position at all and supporting Israel doesn’t mean supporting every action, nor does saying that, suggest I think every accusation against Israel is valid. It means the discussion is a deflective rabbit hole I will not enter. Why don’t you just go back to Palestine Live, where 70% of those posting share hard-core antisemitic material. You’ve been there years. When you finally make a single comment there that criticises one antisemitic comment, then perhaps you won’t be talking to me whilst standing on top of a mountain of hypocrisy.
You really are full of shit David. Sorry to say that but I think it sums things up. To say that 70% of posters on PL share “hard core AS posts” is just complete and utter nonsense. You know it is. it is YOU who are defending the indefensible, i.e. a racist criminal apartheid state. You may as well say National Socialist Germany was fine apart from the concentration camps, the mass murder, the anti-racial laws. You are clearly a lowest-common denominator type of “journalist” scraping the barrel to score cheap points. Meanwhile people under military oppression in Palestine continue to suffer. Shame on you. I’ve challenged you to a debate half a dozen times now. It’s clear to me you’re just a cowardly moron with zero integrity. Good day..
Mike. I know how you like to dispute facts, but that’s what there is. If we are kind enough to include the Jewish posters, then the figure drops to around 60%. Six out of every ten posters who posted on Palestine Live in the first two weeks of February also promote hard-core antisemitism. Rothschild Conspiracy, Jewish control, ISIS as Jewish or Holocaust Denial. Without the Jewish posters, that figure is 73%. Horrific.
Israel is not an Apartheid state, and no amount of repeating mantra, can change a democratic nation where everyone votes, into something it clearly isn’t. Nor is democratic, liberal Israel anything like Nazi Germany. All these things in your head Mike are driven by some obscene fetish and are not reasonable or factual.
Your childish idea of a debate was to face off against you on a video, where you could present carefully selected and distorted documents, that would require research to show how you were distorting them, or for me to travel to your local. Neither is a serious proposition. You clearly haven’t got a clue about Zionism or Israel, and you conflate situations at will. Your fetish with the Holocaust is to put it mildly, rather grim. Go to Israel, spend some time there. Learn something.
Winston Churchill …
The GREATEST MAN of the 20th century.
Why? Because he was the Voice of Freedom – a dogged opponent of your, Sumners Eve, kind of socialist filth.
Tell us why did National Socialist SHlTler have a Non-Compete Agreement, Non-Aggression pact with fellow Socialist, Soviet Socialist Bolshevik Stalin???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
Peach,
Given I’ve journeyed 14,000 miles in a 6 day time line and been stuck travelling for some 55 hrs, its a little difficult to keep up with what’s happening on a thread with more than 700 posts – oh, and keep abreast of all the Russian hysteria we are presently witnessing.
What I shall remark upon is the fact that the faux anti-semitism witch hunt against Corbyn and much of the Left has been superseded by faux accusations of loyalty to a regime/system that ended circa 1989-1991 – this faux outrage against alleged pro-Russian sentiments being a better stick to beat Corbyn and the Left with.
My assessment of PL stands, namely inappropriate material was shared within the Group and the Moderators seemed incapable of dealing with it – this issue does not exist on smaller Groups, whereby material deemed racist is stamped out and the Posters accounts banned.
With regards Mr Sumner, his first post did indeed seem threatening, however, this has been clarified by himself in his exchanges with Mr Collier. As such, his first post could have been worded in a better manner.
As for the rest of the exchanges, I’ve had little time to digest I’m afraid, as such, I’m unable to offer an opinion until I’ve digested the exchanges in full.
PS: I’ve never visited PL and have little desire to do so, particularly in light of Mr Collier’s dossier.
Hey Narcissus, Stop boring everyone and join Facebook already so you can tell visitors about your day, traveling, shopping, what you had for lunch, what movies you saw, books you read, your poetry, your Nakba, how uppity Jews ruin your day..
Edward,
As you are an out and out racist, please do yourself a favour and espouse your hate elsewhere.
Now fuck off.
Fascist Chris Rogers, calling other people racist?
That’s rich. LOL!
Please ESAD ASAP and Happy Nakba to you and your jihadist friends.
Sumners Eve, You clearly have anger issues. I recommend you swallow a bottle of sleeping pills and wash them down with a bottle of whiskey.
Happy Nakba!
Threats from the troll????
Hmm … Surely not.
Sumners Eve, What could happen to your friend Ellenanne? She might come to her senses and realize what a fascist pig you are?
Please just go fuck yourself Edward.
Unlike pondscum like you, Sumner, I am sure that Edward can go and do it with other people. It’s only losers like you who need to copulate with themselves.
Sumner’s Eve,
Happy Nakba! 🙂
The irony here is that Zionist Jews like Collier actually reinforce all the old negative stereotypes about Jews.
Non Zionist Jews don’t create the false hysteria about “antisemitism” like their racist Zionist cousins.
I would suggest Jews like Collier stop being offended by negative Jewish stereotypes and own them as they apply to people like him.
I would also suggest he publicly apologize to all non Zionist Jews for dragging their religion through the mud.
Zionists are vermin. Collier is Zionist.
Thank you for so expertly highlighting how anti-Zionism is actually antisemitism.
Interesting . You won’t mind if I quote you ?
Only if you wish to take me out of context. As you KNOW, I do not equate them. The above is a good example of where the two are indistinguishable
lol. So now we all now just how dumb you are David. Thanks
Sumners Ever, Thanks to your posts, we know what a dumb fascist socialist pig you are.
Did you know that National SOCIALIST SHlTler and Soviet SOCIALIST Stalin co-operated from 1939-1941? Until 1941 when National SOCIALIST SHlTler unilaterally broke the Socialist Non-Aggression pact and attacked his former “business partner”. Happy Nakba.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
Sammy, Are you still upset that your side SURRENDERED, UNCONDITIONALLY to the US, UK and SU?
Happy Nakba!
Truly unhinged, vile, infantile garbage.
David, speaking as the Eastern Med distributor of Verminous Zionists you are achieving a gold standard in smoking out the racists and antisemites from the shadows in which they typically lurk. I wonder whether these characters post on sites that report on prejudice towards black people or Muslims or gay people and advise them to stop being offended by negative stereotypes and own them. Of course not because, as you point out they’re simply old fashioned Jew haters using the very thin veil of anti Zionism to legitimise overt prejudice. Worth pointing out to any nonZionist Jews that the Jewish State will always have an open door to them when these sweethearts crank it up another notch.
Ian that isn’t true. Only very recently a whole bunch of Jews have been barred from Israel. Hang on that is barred from visiting but they can still move there permanently?
#basketcase
Israel barred a bunch of JINO’s?
Those JINO’s can instead go to Gaza (Human Shield work) or ISIStan (orange jumpsuit work).
Netanyahu Akbar!
Wow, major victim complex going on here. Maybe people would like you more if you weren’t so easily offended, David.
I fight racists by going into the sewers they swim in and spending time trying to get inside their heads. If I were easily offended I couldn’t do the research. I think the research and my reaction to comments highlight how difficult it is to offend me. I have really thick skin. But thanks for popping in and showing us all how flippantly you take racism.
Islamophobe.
Or maybe you could fuck off, troll.
This is brilliant
http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/antisemitism/a-jvl-inspired-comment-on-antisemitism-and-the-labour-party/
They are being very helpful to me at the moment Stephen aren’t they. The Free Speech on Israel post from yesterday was truly a goldmine. Shared by JVL too (no surprise really, but let’s at least play along with the idea these are two separate groups).
Stay tuned.
David I am always very finely tuned
Dumb Bellamy, you are as fine tuned as an upright piano that was pushed off the roof of a building.
David, watching the nature of the responses over the last week or so has been a fascinating experience for anyone interested in make-up of the opposition and their tactics. It is worth considering how a parallel scenario plays out for activists and campaign groups where the prejudice is targeted at blacks, gays, women or any minority groups that have been targeted for discrimination. In those case thousands march in streets around the world in support, laws are hurriedly enacted to redress inequity, speeches on Hollywood stages are met with fawning world headlines and groundswells of opinions are mobilized as a “#metoo” gesture. Conversely when activism and campaigning is designed to report on prejudice towards Jews a rather different response derives. Here, every vile racist crawls from the shadows to attack the reporter. The focus is entirely placed on his character and motivation, the sincerity of the presentation and onto allegations of the whiny, over sensitive disposition of the targets of the prejudice. Absolutely no attention is given to discussion of the actual subject matter and instead, absurdly, the more vocal protagonists try to shift the debate to abstract history lessons or other remoter, but safer points to deflect the threads.
You have shown that 2018 is a period in time when there are significant sections of UK society that are freely and consistently sharing openly antisemitic views and that nobody seems to care. Your opponents that have responded here have reinforced this point and have made it quite clear to your readership that it is so accepted as a behaviour that there is barely a need to address the evidence in rebuttal. It merely suffices to point a dismissive finger at the reporter and characterise him as another Jew with victim issues. I think that the readers will continue to draw their own conclusions as to where the weight of this argument lies.
Ian to the best of my knowledge there are no other minority groups whose claims of prejudice against them more often than not reduces to an unwelcome attitude to a foreign power.
And your intimation that all of this is a battle for hearts and minds is absurd. One again highlighting the fact that you don’t have the remotest fucking clue what is going on.
And IslamFAUXbia is a *senseless* reaction to atrocities by followers of a “foreign power” which perpetrated 9/11, London’s 7/7, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Bastille Day in Nice, Mumbai India, Nairobi Kenya, Brussels airport, Manchester, Boston Marathon, Pan Am 103, sneaker bomber, underwear bomber, DC Beltway sniper, liquid binary bombs in carry-on baggage, Times Square SUV, Manhattan bike path and Westminster bridge car jihad, Pulse nightclub in Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Garland, beheading of Lee Rigby, journalist Daniel Pearl and other prisoners of ISIS, Islamists spitting on British soldiers in Luton, No-Go Zones in London, rape gangs in Rotherham, Beslan elementary school massacre, destruction of Bamiyan of Palmyra World Heritage sites, assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Bali, Sydney, Ottawa, Copenhagen, Luxor, attacks on Coptic Christians in Egypt, bombing of churches in Pakistan, 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war, Iraq invasion of Kuwait, …
Racists pick on family. Family runs into house. Racists start throwing stones at the house. Not too difficult a process to follow.
David the throwing of stones at the house couldn’t have anything to do with what the ” family” is doing in and from the house ?
More unhinged meaningless babble from the utter fuckwit Bellend.
Luckily Bellers the self serving drivel that you and I trot out here and the things that we do or dont know are a total irrelevance to the main subject matter of David’s report.
Which is ?
David is it true that you spoke at the launch of Herut UK ?
Stephen Sir,
Of course its true, Collier has stated so himself on this thread on this Blog. He does not support racism though and owes no allegiance to any political grouping. ALLEGEDLY!!!!
Supporting “palestine”, hezbola, hamass, fascist iran are hallmarks of racism, fascism.
That’s why the Laboor Parrty keeps expelling members – due to the members racist, fascist speech.
Edward,
Strange is it not that the Green Party does not hold inquisitions to eject its members who support Palestinian human rights. Further, the days of Labour Friends of Israel are numbered I’m afraid, so, with Formby replacing the Judas McNicol much of the faux anti-semitism witch hunt favoured by McNicol’s Stasi will cease – for the record, I was auto-expelled from the Labour Party for a tweet favourable to the Green Party, since which time I’ve been free to attack the Zionist Blairites, which I’ve done with much venom. We don’t want neoliberal and neoconservatives in the Labour Movement period, nor are racists tolerated. The Tories love racists though, so surprised you ain’t joined them or the EDL.
“We don’t want neoliberal and neoconservatives in the Labour Movement period, nor are racists tolerated” – seek help. Labour is chock-full of the most virulent racists on the planet.
leah27z,
Since when in anyones warped imagination does supporting human rights equate to racism. Well, of course unless you are an Israeli apologist, in which case, support of human rights, particularly for Palestinian human rights is indeed construed as racism, which is the point you make continually. Again, probably the Conservative Party is not racist enough for yourself and you lament the implosion of the National Front. Really must try harder with your crap love and visit the water closet to empty all the crap out of your dirty mouth.
Nearly 700 comments and a fortnight into this report and still silence on the subject matter from the opponents. Instead we have had a critique of grammar and language, a bit of mud slinging at the author and a few of the posters that choose to commend him, a threat to read and then re-read the report followed by nothing but customary flounce and then some more vague insults and the odd feeble deflection. Thumbing the final pages of the playbook the Evasion Endgame is reduced to a desperate round of slurs on the author’s political affiliations and a rather weedy “Oh no I’m not. Oh yes you are.”
Overall I’m please to have “no fucking clue what’s going on” amongst the small silo of self interested, agenda driven activists. I imagine most civilian readers would prefer to focus their attentions on the issue of prejudice and antisemitism in the UK in 2018 than on personal grudges and irrelevant social media squabbles that they bring to this comment section.
Ian,
You seem not to understand the ‘News Cycle’ within the UK, namely, Collier’s ‘dodgy dossier’, that is his conclusions and attacks upon Corbyn tickled the fancy of the MSM, particularly a few Rightwing titles, that funnily enough were closely associated with support for fascism and Hitler in the 1930s, for approximately 15 minutes – the faux anti-Semitism attacks being overtaken by faux stooge of the Kremlin attacks following the attempted murder of a Russian traitor living in the UK, which, its most unlikely that the Russian State itself was involved in. David needs a new Report to tickle the fancy of our esteemed propagandists in the UK’s Free Press, which again, will fall by the wayside once another form of attack is available to beat JC and the Left with.
I missed the part way up above where David acknowledges his role in the launch of Herut UK. I asked the question in sincere ignorance. Interestingly his talk was on Jabotinsky, presumably it was favourable. I mean I wouldn’t be giving a talk at the launch of a local ferret fanciers club and devote it to slagging off ferrets and ferret fancying. But anyway here is Herut UK’s statement of principles.
We believe in the inalienable right of all Jews to live and settle in all parts of the Land of Israel and in the support of all government and community efforts and programmes directed to assist the maximum level of aliyah to Eretz Yisrael.
“We believe that, whatever terms may be agreed in any peace agreement, Jerusalem must remain the eternal and undivided capital of the Jewish nation with free access to its holy sites to be maintained for all religions, exclusively under Israel’s sovereignty and control. Access to all Jewish holy places including the Temple Mount must be preserved under Israel’s permanent control.
State eviction of Jews from their homes is not only a violation of their basic human rights but also of the basic tenets of our religion and everything that Judaism stands for.
Any major decision whether territorial or affecting Israel’s intrinsic position as a Jewish State should require a two-thirds majority of the Knesset.
We believe that no prisoner found guilty of murdering innocent civilians should be freed before serving his/her full tariff.
We believe that Haredim should be encouraged to serve in the armed forces and that all religious considerations shall be accommodated by the Defence Ministry to achieve maximum participation.
For the purposes of UK advocacy, we believe that terms like ‘illegal occupation’ should never go unchallenged in any interview or exchange with parliamentarians or the media.
We believe that Israel is ‘family’ and, as such, we must provide our unconditional support to its government, its defense forces and citizens. Such criticism as we may have should never be expressed publicly from the armchair of the diaspora but kept for discussion in Israel with the relevant lawmakers or authorities.
Likud-Herut’s best days were at the forefront of the struggle to free Soviet Jews, and we will be just as forthright and outspoken in our defense of Jewish rights of residence and self-defense in their homeland.”
As for the eternal capital bit I dunno what Jerusalem is gonna do in 5000 million years time when the sun leaves its main sequence.
Where is your concern for Mecca and the Kabba or your favourite pub?
Come on Chris, we’re all grown ups here. There is no need to hide from the facts. When last we looked neither the Mirror nor the Guardian were regarded as right wing media and they both referenced the report as source material for their stories. The links appear above here. It’s also hard to understand why you keep referencing things that happened nearly 90 years ago when attempting to discredit certain media agendas in 2018.
I keep coming back to the same question. Why is it so important to your agenda to characterise the reporting of prejudice against Jews in the UK as ‘faux’ or insincere. If we are to believe your general sentiments this is unlikely to be a consistent view when considering prejudice targeted at, say blacks, Muslims and people of different genders and sexual orientations? Can we to take it that this is a personal attack on the author whom you wish to demean and if so would you care to say something about who you do feel is able to highlight prejudice against Jews and who you would consider sincere in their endeavors? Perhaps you may care to comment on the circumstances in which it is fair and reasonable to report on prejudice against Jews or is this simply an area that is out of bounds for you in as much as it creates a fundamental conflict with your broad credo?
Ian,
Sorry to rain on your parade, but I’ve not participated in reading the Daily Mirror since I left school, at which time I began purchasing and reading The Guardian 7 Observer on a regular basis, together with Private Eye – in my more than 20 years timeline in purchasing physical copies of The Guardian it has had two Editors, one of whom Rushbriger in 2008 decided to abolish the Scott Trust, which guaranteed the papers impartiality and turned the Guardian Media Group into a more commercial entity, where honest reporting went out the window. Matters have got worse under Ms Viner, to the extent I now only visit The Guardian website to catch-up on some football.
With regards The Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph, all were supportive of fascism in the 1930’s, the Sun did not exist, but the Daily Herald did, the Herald becoming The Sun after its take over by Murdoch, who ain’t exactly leftwing shall we say.
Oh, and I also used to read The Independent and Sunday Correspondent, the Correspondent only lasting three months if memory serves me right – Jonathan Freedland cut his teeth on it.
Your personal news consumption is not the point here as you know Chris. You had suggested that only the right wing media had used David’s report as source material for their stories. I was responding to this by indicating that this was not the case as you know. So, setting aside the much wider readership across the spectrum perhaps we can move onto the question of whether you would ever consider it fair and reasonable to report on antisemitism in the UK. You regard David’s reporting as disingenuous or ‘faux’ as to term it despite his findings and the subsequent developments. Is this to say that your beef is against David rather than against the reporting of prejudice against Jews and if so which sort of reporter would you take more seriously?
I used to read the Mirror way back mainly for The Perishers. It used to kill me every summer when they went on their hols and the eyeballs in the sky appeared in the rock pool
Ian,
There is only one Leftwing daily newspaper in the UK, its called the Morning Star. The Guardian has never been a Leftwing newspaper, its always been a liberal newspaper who’s views chimed with many who were left-of-centre. When I began reading The Guardian, its readership per day was well over 400K, today its well under 200K and its actual online/physical readership is far from what it was in the 80s and 90s, namely, sandal wearing Liberals, students and public sector employees, among these many teachers and lecturers. Keep digging mate.
More illiterate unhinged nonsense from Rogers.
I completely understand your intention to keep this section of the thread devoted to the characterisation of news media Chris rather than considering the question that has now been posed twice to you. You must think that I’m trying to trick you in some way and so you have to be guarded about your answers. I am not and you don’t. I can understand why you would be wary of answering but frankly it will be the best indication yet as to whether we are having a civilised exchange or just grinding axes or venting personal grudges.
I asked you whether you felt that there were ever legitimate circumstances in which it was right for someone to report on prejudice towards Jews in the UK; circumstances in which you would not characterise the motivations as ‘faux’ or insincere. Do you think there are?