Israel is a democracy with a large Jewish majority. Since 1967, and the three ‘Nos’ at the Arab Summit in Khartoum, Israel has been trying to navigate a geo-political nightmare. On the one hand, it would very much like to build bridges with all its neighbours, on the other it faces a hostile Arab population that is unable to come to terms with Israel’s existence. Several of Israel’s leaders have tried, and failed, to find a peaceful solution. Every time there appeared to be a serious opportunity, violence erupted from the Arab side to close the imaginary window.
The truth remains that the population in Gaza and Ramallah are only a united people in the context of an anti-Zionist conflict. Outside of this paradigm, they are warring factions with little connecting them beyond a fable of a once prosperous nation, a picture of Yasser Arafat, a national history that is little more than a web of lies and conspiracy, and finally, a roll call of heroes who were nothing but terrorists. This should not be misunderstood. It is not to say that underneath the mess that those calling themselves Palestinians have become, there aren’t human beings who have gone through tragedy, but simply to highlight that the choices that Arab nations and local leaders have made for them, the education that they have been given, has rendered them incapable of providing a unified coherent argument for anything but a conflict with Zionism.
It can be deceptive. Walk through the streets of Ramallah and you will meet the friendliest, most hospitable people you would ever hope to meet. Lend them your ear, and you will hear little but a rendition of the web of lies and conspiracy. Hold their hand and they will lead you through the carefully selected hotspots such as a tiny corner of Hebron, pointing out as they go, why it shows that their version of events is true. They will talk of justice, suggesting that if they can receive it, then everyone will live in peace. This tale, coming as it does from the underdog, spins a story that is swallowed wholesale throughout the west.
Truths, lies and demographics
It is this disparity, that creates two incompatible narratives. The true tale – of an Israel that cannot find a partner for peace because one does not exist, and the falsehood – that if Israel were just nicer, then peace would come. Inside this stalemate, Israel has struggled to come to terms with the geo-political consequences. How can Israel finalise its borders without anyone to finalise those borders with?
Complicating this further is the changing demographic in the west. Once upon a time only the Arab states had to worry about popular uprising if Israel made a unilateral move. This is no longer the case. Throughout Europe, politicians become nervous whenever Israel takes any action, however justified. European leaders are scared of their own streets. It does not even matter if they understand Israel’s position, they want Israel to refrain from doing anything that will unsettle their own European Muslim and Arab populations.
The Trump Peace plan and the ‘annexation’
Like it or not, unlike the Oslo peace process, Trump’s plan was born inside reality. At its heart is an acknowledgement that unilateral action may be the only way to move things forward. Outside of corrupt Palestinian leaders, violent terrorist factions and the regional despotic states, nobody wants the current stalemate to continue . Israel certainly does not want to be perpetually caught in this trap and if the Arabs will not negotiate for peace, then Israel should logically seek to move forward as far as it can without them.
Attention turns to those areas that were always going to remain in Israel in any given peace deal, the key settlement blocks. And as an additional means of bringing permanence to its own borders, the area of the Jordan Valley. It may be true that for a short while Israel had contemplated a more power-sharing arrangement along the Jordanian border, but that was only in the desperate atmosphere of the failing Oslo process. Once Israel finally realised that the Palestinians were not capable of bringing peace at all – at least not in this generation, then security demands meant Israel needed to control the border for itself. No sane nation would have it any other way.
Making this even less of a news story, the specific lands Israel may assert its sovereignty over, are lands that were included in the internationally sanctioned maps of the Jewish homeland a hundred years ago. That is, shortly before Britain cut off more than half of it to create Trans-Jordan from the lands of mandatory ‘Palestine’. These lands are Jewish lands and whether it is politically incorrect to point it out or not, there is already an independent Arab state that was created from the Palestine Mandate. Jordan is factually a state with a Palestinian majority built from ‘the lands of the Palestine Mandate’. This does not mean those in Ramallah and Gaza can or should be discounted but let us not dismiss the truth of the Palestinian state of Jordan simply because it is awkward. A statement of fact is not in itself an extremist position.
Israel is both aware of the necessity of its own actions and the potential fall-out. No doubt it is receiving calls from worried politicians in the west every day telling it not to do anything that will create unrest. Right and wrong does not enter the equation. This is a case of western leaders simply denying the truth and willing to let Israel suffer in perpetual conflict, just so they themselves are not placed in political discomfort. An act of white privilege and cowardice. What has made this even more frustrating in the UK is the naive and yellow-bellied response from some quarters of British Jewry.
The British Jewish naivety
Parts of British Jewry seems to be lost. In their minds Israel acting as a sovereign state apparently threatens ‘British Zionism’ but yet somehow their own children saying Kaddish prayers for Hamas terrorists apparently does not.
These people want to be able to show off Israel to their friends and talk about how innovative the Jewish state is. This is real Jewish supremacy – the notion that Israel cannot be a real state like any other, but rather a fictional Narnia that is better than everyone else. The Oslo paradigm was perfect for these groups. A negotiated settlement between Jews and Arabs that would allow them to hold their heads up high and they remain loathe to relinquish this comfort however unreal it may be. For them, they would rather Israel would continue to take risks and even more risks. Stagnation becomes a better alternative than unilateralism because it permits them to continue to live with a personal sense of pride that is nothing but foolish self-indulgence based on false naivety.
It is not that they do not care, of course they do, but they are lost in the post-modern, European, politically correct atmosphere. A paradigm that equates cultures and goes on to reason that everyone has the same inherent values as they do. To make peace with the Palestinians, you just have to reach them by treating them as equals. If peace is not happening, it is therefore because Israel is not trying hard enough to make it happen.
There is also guilt. These people have swallowed the anti-Israel propaganda. Their position on the political spectrum highlights how much of that propaganda has been swallowed. Groups on the hard-left have fallen off the Zionist spectrum completely, but those on the soft-left are ‘Zionist conditional’. For decades their wishy-washy Jewish education has failed to hold onto their children. A tragedy for Jewish families that have put their trust in these institutions. The soft-left willingly hold the hand of the Palestinians in Ramallah and allow themselves to be taken on those tours to show how nasty Israel is. Many of these people have far more sympathy for Palestinian terrorists, than they do the Jewish orthodox.
They have painted themselves into a corner. Israel can only be a Zionist state if it is perfect and as they have so totally purchased the fable of the Palestinian ‘Nakba’, they believe Israel should act as if it is in a permanent state of apologetic generosity. Whilst they can sleep soundly as Israel’s children sit in bomb shelters, it is the possibility of having Israel embarrass them in front of their friends that keeps them up at night. Whatever this is, it isn’t Zionism.
The Diaspora response to annexation
The result has been a stream of indignant public letters, that the Jewish press have happily published, that all talk about doomsday – this thing they call annexation. Anyone reading the letters and taking the content seriously may as well be reading anti-Israel propaganda rags such as ‘Electronic Intifada’. They are full of untruths, exaggerations and misinformation.
The starting point is this. If Israel does assert sovereignty over some of the areas it was going to receive had a peace deal been negotiated, it clearly does not stop the possibility of a Palestinian state one day being created. It therefore does not in itself end the two-state solution. As nobody yet knows what, if any action will be taken, everything else in the letters is hysterical bunkum.
Much of the noise is just internal political posturing. The Board of Deputies is under attack from the noisy left and these events provide groups such as Yachad, a chance to recruit on the back of anti-Israel hysteria. Marie Van der Zyl, President of the BOD, has taken the brave and correct decision to stand up to the bullies. It is clearly not in the interests of the BOD to crumble before a bunch of spoilt children throwing their toys out of their pram. If Kaddish for Hamas didn’t bother these kids – in fact some of them participated in it – I think Israel can do without their ethical guidance.
The silence of the Board of Deputies
The BOD, whatever you personally think of Israel’s political activity, should not have their voice taken over by a group of agitators. These people claim majority status on lies and distortion. We are wise to how the left operate these days and they are not the majority. They put forward deceptive statements such as ‘opposition to settlements’ – which includes many Jerusalem suburbs – and then pretend they are talking about extremists.
These people are an active few. They clearly discount the opinion of the orthodox for example, but we have already established that they have more sympathy for Palestinian terrorists than they do Jewish orthodoxy. Interestingly, they also dismiss the British Israelis, staunch Zionists who have made Aliyah, (which means an ever weaker pot is left behind) – does their opinion not count? If not – and we maintain that British Jews who have not made aliyah can interfere in Israeli politics – then hypocrisy doesn’t even begin to cover it.
For decades these leftist groups and Israel have been on diverging paths. Israel is a nation of the Middle East, in the Middle East, whilst they are residents of places such as Hendon or Finchley. Israel is a real state – they want a utopian one. Israelis go to the army, they go on misguided interfaith exercises.
They demand everyone do what they want them to do. If not, then they won’t love Israel anymore. Oh please. I wish they’d just grow up or shut up.
This simple fact remains. Israel is a democracy. If you want to influence its future. Make aliyah.
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Zionists are losing the argument and the fight to keep the racist State of Israel as a ‘Jewish’ State. Many Jews are now seeing the iniquity of Zionism, as did it’s Proginator Nathan Birnbaum, and are turning against it, evidenced by the numbers of Jews with a consience who are leaving the country rather than live in a state of permanent conflict and international derision.
It’s only zealots such as David Collier who refuse to accept the inevitable that Israel will one day become a democratic State for all its citizens.
Bravo.
About 90% of Jews are Zionists, including those who oppose certain current government positions. Criticism of Israeli policy says little or nothing about ones support of Zionism.
But what is Zionism? What are its tenets, its aims?
Michael, you are always very critical of Zionism. How can you be so critical and still need to ask what it is ?
It’s aim is to provide a safe refuge from those like you should the need arise
Nice to hear the Haaretz POV, not because anything you said is accurate, but frankly because it’s funny seeing a midget like you try to step up to David in the brains department. Also, Israel is already a state of all its citizens, but maybe some of the dwindling low-five figure actual refugees will become Israeli citizens. The millions of non-refugee poseurs? Not a chance in Hell (aka your head).
“Israel is not a state of all its citizens,” Netanyahu wrote in response to criticism from an Israeli actor, Rotem Sela. “According to the basic nationality law we passed, Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people – and only it.”
Ben – ” Israel is already a state of all its citizens”.
Ben is an idiot.
Mike Farmer, Israel is the Nation State of the Jewish people. This does not mean that only Jews live there. The largest minority, about 20%, is Arab, both Muslim and Christian. They are Israeli citizens with full rights. Don’t believe me? If you can get past your Jew hatred, visit Israel, or tell the truth if you have already done so ( which I doubt ).
Jack T
Besides Israel, can you show me one democracy in the Middle East that follows the rule of law and treats its citizens, let alone minorities, with decency and respect.
Christians that used to compromise a sizeable minority in the region are in the process of being decimated.
The Yazidis were misused and abused by the Islamists.
The Jews were expelled and Ethnically Cleansed from the area
So your calling for the destruction of Israel is also calling for the destruction of the Jews of Israel, remembering that the Jews of the Middle East and North Africa have already been destroyed
“The Jews were expelled and Ethnically Cleansed from the area”
Large numbers of Jews voluntarily emigrated to the new state of Israel, encouraged by the agents of Israel. Some MENA countries wished them to stay and even forbade them to leave.
People outside Israel that nominally support us and people outside Israel that oppose us have one thing in common. Both are disregarded as an irrelevance when it comes to formulating domestic policy in our own national interest.
Both sides need to make some noise to appear relevant to their respective audiences or simply vent their frustrations and biases, but ultimately it will just be very faint background noise from a distance. We have no expectations of anything better from either side.
Finally declaring our sovereignty over our own land in Judea and Samaria is decades overdue. Whether it will actually happen is another issue.
100% agree.
Sometimes, the overwhelming ignorance of correspondents like Jack Ton even outweith the shortcomings of David Colliers blog.
As pointed out previously, the blog suffers from lack of explaining exactly what is meant by Zionism, to whom and when. The simple fact that the very various views of Zionism can agree on, is the concept of autonomy. However, Zionism’s origins like in Tanach with the concepts of the Promised Land and the Chosen People. This transformed into Political Zionism by Herzl and confirmed by the Frist Zionist Congress in Basle.
It is sheer stupidity to claim Israel is not a democracy. All Citizens, whether Jews or Arabs, have a right to vote, equal access to Justice and Arabs occupy some of the highest position in the State.
Furthermore, whatever his shortcomings, David Collier is not a zealot. Though it’s true that his knowledge of histroy needs substantial improvement, especially appertaining to how the Jewish State was created.
Clots, like Jack Ton, however, are plainly unaware that the Oslo Accords accepted the two state solution, which was not novel having been first aired by King-Crane Commission and, subsequently the Peel Commission. Furthermore, the Oslo Accords, signed by Arafat, committed to bi lateral discussions, which has never happened because Arafat intended them for ‘Salami Slicing’
purposes.
When David refers to the weakness and ignorance of Anglo-Jewy, he is absolutely correct. The BOD offers no leadership, it never has, few of the Rabbonim, predominanlly left leaning progressives, comprehend enough Jewish History to even comment, let alone teach, about Zionism and the M’dinat Y’Israel. Hence, fools like Jack Ton, who doubtless express the views of much of Anglo-Jewry, simply express their own ignorance.
Outweigh
First
“As pointed out previously, the blog suffers from lack of explaining exactly what is meant by Zionism, to whom and when. ” … but David refuses to explain what ‘Zionism’ means to David, though his mantra continues to be ‘AntiZionism is Antisemitism’.
“The BOD offers no leadership”. Shouldn’t it represent its members, not blindly support Israel, not act as an agent for Israel, not seek to ignore international law but be at odds with the UK government’s stance on it?
Mike, I ask, “What international law?”
It seems, as I recall, and I do this rather well, studied and taught this subject for years, the land was given in its entirety to the Jewish people, may want to read the Mandate. To appease the Arabs, the British stripped away over 75% of the Mandate, gave it to set up Transjordan, an Arab state.
After the Arabs rejected UN Resolution #181, you know, the treaty that Britain did everything they could to get other nations to vote against, Israel declared nationhood off of the fulfillment of the Mandate, that gave them all the land in what then was the British Mandate of Palestine, minus Jordan of course.
So please, educate me, when Jordan and Egypt, along with other Arab nations invaded, occupied the Mandate lands in Judea and Samaria, renamed it the West Bank, then tried to annex the land, something they had no legal right to do, ethnically cleansed every Jew out of the area, when Israel took back what was given to them in the Mandate, what international law states that if your land is taken from you by an invading force, you then have no more right to this land?
” studied and taught this subject for years, the land was given in its entirety to the Jewish people, may want to read the Mandate. ”
I’ll have a look then. Please provide a link to ‘the Mandate’.
Michael, in your opinion will annexation have a positive or negative impact on the civil rights of the Arabs living in Judea and Samaria?
So well put. thank you
Brilliant article, David. Superbly argued and written. Very well done!
The problem you have with this article is the author is acting like the other side wants peace. Seems the problem is that the author and many others feel if they can just be a little bit nicer things will change. How about we look at Gaza, they are a great example of what happens when you are a little more nice.
With the Oslo 2 accords being created we were promised, if Israel only gave in to Arab demands to pull out of Gaza they would show Israel and the world what they could do when they were free, they would turn Gaza into the Singapore of the Middle East.
Israel and the world took them at their word, they pulled out, when they did they left infrastructure, an airport, a harbor that was under construction, they also left a thriving florist business to aid in the development of the area. The day they pulled out the Arabs looted the greenhouses, then burned some of them to the ground, they then turned to the UN and said Israel left them nothing, of course they failed to mention the businesses they destroyed.
It was a week later that the first waves of suicide bombers arrived, they attacked Israeli buses full of civilians, attacked pizza parlors, also went and attack various wedding parties.
Why did they attack? They said they were fighting the occupation, but wait, Israel pulled completely out of Gaza, so what occupation were they fighting? This is where the truth comes out, they demand there be no Israel, so they were attacking where Jews did not pull out, in Israel.
Now, Israel did what any nation would do, they put up a wall to protect from these attacks, the Arabs ran to the UN, cried about oppression (still do so today), the UN, the Arabs, and the EU condemned Israel, how dare they not let themselves be blown up. But when Israel refused to relent the Arabs in Gaza then went and attacked the Sinai, so what did Egypt do? They put up a fence, it was funny, not a peep out of the UN, EU or the Arabs, one has to wonder, why was that?
We saw the same thing later with the road access to Judea and Samaria, the Arabs cut through the fence, slaughtered Jewish families, the Arabs in Judea and Samaria, along with those in Gaza did what they did on 9/11, they danced in the streets, passed out cakes and candies, called these terrorist heroes, so Israel cut off access. Once more the Arabs went to the UN and cried how they were oppressed, the UN, the EU and the Arab Nations issued strong condemnations. But when Egypt and Jordan opened their roads to give access, once more the Arabs from Gaza attacked in the Sinai and slaughtered tourist, Egypt cut off acc4ess, amazing, once more nothing but silence from the UN, EU and Arabs.
It was the same with the ports, when a embargo was put in place, but I rattle on.
The problem you have is the Arabs have no wish for peace, at least not the leadership, they openly have stated what their intent was, so I ask, “If someone says their goal is commit genocide against your people why would you make peace with them?” And before you say, “No, they never have!” I have to disagree with you, here they are speaking in their own words from before Israel was reborn to now:
“Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.”
– Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem
(Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p. 47)
“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”
– Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
(Daily Star, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)
“Allah’s promise and the Prophet’s prophecy of our victory in Palestine over the Jews and over the oppressive Zionists has begun to come true… Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day… Allah willing, we will make them lose their eyesight, we will make them lose their brains.”
– Khaled Mashal, Hamas leader
(Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006)
“The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.”
– Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)
When people say they want to kill me, I generally find it not a good idea to think that they are being peaceful, well except the times they are trying to kill me.
You seem to suggest that Israel pulled out of Gaza to be “a little more nice”. Tut, tut.
You also seem to suggest that Gaza is not occupied. Israel hasn’t pulled out of its skies, nor its waters.
The airport and the ‘under construction’ port were destroyed by Israel.
The settlements that could have provided housing were also destroyed by the ‘a little more nice’ Israel.
Material was stripped from the greenhouses to provide repairs for their own homes.
The Palestinian economy is being kept weak by Israel. Meanwhile Israel enjoys appeasement by much of the world and is being kept viable by the Muslim hating US.
You made most of that up naughty Michael. Accusing David of lying and then pushing huge whoppers of your own. Tut tut.
6 paragraphs, not a single valid point. 0/6 is a lousy batting average even for a cross-eyed twerp like you Muck. Try harder, you may eventually string together some coherence, many years (and deservedly unkind remarks from me) from now. Stop being lazy.
6 paragraphs enlightening Ben re. the disengagement from Gaza.
Ben needs more education.
I’m always learning from qualified, non-Nazi sympathizing ources. You don’t qualify, you piece of shit.
Seems your “ources” also need educating, Ben.
They left you ignorant of History.
Would that be the “ources for courses” I heard about many decades ago?
cont :
‘The eviction of all residents, demolition of the residential buildings and evacuation of associated security personnel from the Gaza Strip was completed by 12 September 2005. The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later. 8,000 Jewish settlers from the 21 settlements in the Gaza Strip were relocated.
‘Two months prior to the withdrawal, half of the 21 settlements’ greenhouses, spread over 1,000 acres, had been dismantled by their owners, leaving the remainder on 500 acres, placing its business viability on a weak footing. International bodies, and pressure from James Wolfensohn, Middle East envoy of the Quartet, who gave $500,000 of his own money, offered incentives for the rest to be left to the Palestinians of Gaza.’
Michael, in your opinion will annexation have a positive or negative impact on the civil rights of the Arabs living in Judea and Samaria?
“a national history that is little more than a web of lies and conspiracy”
“a roll call of heroes who were nothing but terrorists.”
That would describe Israel and its leaders, surely.
Don’t be silly Michael. Our former PM, Menachem Begin was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. You say you are pro-Palestinian, so will know that their former leader Yasser Arafat was also a recipient. In your opinion were they both worthy winners?
“And for 5 years Jews were lectured about Jewishness.” …… as are UK Jews who oppose the planned Israeli annexation.
“Attention turns to those areas that were always going to remain in Israel in any given peace deal, the key settlement blocks. ”
There you have it. Israel will only agree a peace deal where those areas and illegal/illegitimate settlements are signed off as theirs …. and this is spun as Palestinian intransigence.
Are you still pro-Palestinian Michael?
Why no opinions on their former leader Yasser Arafat? No opinions either on the plight of their people over the last 5 years and no opinions on whether annexation will have a positive or negative impact on their lives in Judea and Samaria. No opinions at all on them. Only opinions on Jews.
Are you really pro-Palestinian ?
Be strong Israel – British Jewry is behind you… Not the drech that say Kaddish for Terrorists
Great article. As a Briton who is neither Jewish nor Muslim, I have no “skin in the game” on the Israel-Arab conflict. But the more I read, from all manner of sources, the more I realise the truth of David’s narrative. The UN/EU is indeed rotten, they have taken the knee before angry, hate-filled Muslims, who hugely outnumber Jews in the global game of (demographic) thrones. Israel would be bonkers to ever vacate the Jordan Valley. Thankfully, it is far from bonkers.
I see a visible Jew has been stabbed in London today (Friday) by a “man of South Asian background.” I wonder will the perpetrator turn out to be Muslim?
Ah, another anti-muslim?
Muslims are anti-Muslim.
See the 500,000+ dead in Syria and the 1,000,000+ dead in the 8 year Iraq/Fascist Iran war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
Excellent piece David
The British Jewish community has always worked to keep itself out of the spotlight in the fear that attracting attention would result in Antisemitism
When the Eastern European Jews migrated to this country, many of the existing Jewish community were not particularly welcoming.
And it’s the same with Israel today. Too many Jews are worried about how whatever happens in the Middle East will negatively affect them without acknowledging that placating your enemies just makes them bolder.
I’m personally rather conflicted about the whole process, but because I don’t live there, and won’t suffer the consequences of any actions the Israelis and Palestinians take, I won’t applaud or criticize whichever way the situation goes.
I agree with you that the BoD has taken the only option open to them; they will be guilty of whichever course they take, so a studied ambiguity is the way to go
Richard, I think your analysis is spot on. The BoD and other Jewish orgs play to a certain gallery and therefore have to play by certain PR rules. This is no different really to the ways that Israel-centric PR is generated by the UAE, Jordan or Oman. They are all required to toe a particular party line for their audience but in the back office are all hugely cooperative and collaborative with Israel. Keeping things on an even keel is always preferable to the risks that come with the alternative. This is the main reason it has taken us decades to get round to clarifying our own borders
“The British Jewish community has always worked to keep itself out of the spotlight in the fear that attracting attention would result in Antisemitism”??!?
…. as David does? Lol.
David spins fake antisemitism for a living.
Are you still pro-Palestinian Michael?
Why no opinions on their former leader Yasser Arafat? No opinions either on the plight of their people over the last 5 years and no opinions on whether annexation will have a positive or negative impact on their lives in Judea and Samaria. No opinions at all on them. Only opinions on David and Jews.
Are you really pro-Palestinian ?
““The British Jewish community has always worked to keep itself out of the spotlight in the fear that attracting attention would result in Antisemitism”??!?”
Weren’t they the riotous rent-a-mob in Parliament Square last year?
Michael, earlier in the thread you were asking what Zionism meant. Did you find out?
Collier – “David Collier
@mishtal
My favourite type of politician is one who keeps going on about how much they care about racism
– yet spent *5 years* in @uklabour baiting Jews, belittling the attacks on them – and denying Labour had a problem – even after the @ehrc had opened an investigation.”
The ‘UK Jewish Community’ (UK Zionist Community) has spent the last 5 years sheepily following a campaign of lies and smears against a party that seeks justice for Palestinian. That’s all their is to it.
Such a dishonest bunch.
whoops …there.
> Such a dishonest bunch.
Like Islam is “The Religion of Peace”.
For proof see…
9/11, London’s 7/7, Boston Marathon, beheading of Lee Rigby and Daniel Pearl, bombing of Pan Am 103, Charlie Hebdo massacre, Mumbai India massacre, Nairobi Kenya mall massacre, London and Westminster bridge car ramming attacks, Bastille Day truck ramming attack in Nice France, …
The STUPID Sharmuta who calls herself “Mike Farmer”, calling others dishonest.
LOL!
Happy Nakba, Bitch!
Nakba?
David claims to “fight antisemitism everywhere”
David is telling porkies.
When David was questioned about his claim of ‘fighting antisemitism everywhere’, which of course is a lie.
Questioner : David, can you go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Do you think that’s a point?
Questioner : David, would you like to go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : I’m not a member of the Tory Party.
Questioner : Antisemitism exists everywhere, if you are here to fight antisemitism you fight antisemitism everywhere.
David : I agree
Questioner : You seem to ‘specialise’ in antisemitism in the Labour Party, Can you tell me what your record is on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Your question is disingenuous …… I am a member of the Labour Party.
Michael, did you know that there are statues to both Menachem Begin and Yasser Arafat following their Nobel Peace Prize wins. In your opinion should they both still stand?
“One Jewish family.
In the last 130 years my family faced persecution in:
Algeria fled 1890s
Russia fled 1900s
Jaffa expelled (Ottomans) 1917
Nazis murdered 1944
Jerusalem – expelled (Jordan) 1948
Morocco fled persecution 1950s.
Egypt expelled 1956#myjewishfamily
”
Is that where your hatred for non-Jews came from? … why you are happy to do it to others?
Michael, you said you were pro Palestinian. Why dont you have any opinions on them, their leaders or their lives, only David and Jews?
Are you really pro Palestinian ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
“By the end of August, the UN estimated 6.5 million people had been displaced within Syria, while more than 3 million had fled to countries such as Lebanon (1.1 million), Jordan (600,000) and Turkey (800,000).”
Anyone who denys that Islam is “The Religion of Peace” will be tortured to death.
Collier – “David Collier
@mishtal
When Irish political players move to introduce the #OccupiedTerritoriesBill – they are simply discussing the introduction of state sponsored #Antisemitism in #Ireland. Given all that is wrong in the world – have they really nothing better to do than obsess about harming #Israel?”
” state sponsored #Antisemitism in #Ireland.”??!?
How is moving against Israel for profiting from the illegal settlements and the unilateral annexation being antisemitic?
It’s moving against a state for its sins NOT an ethnicity. What do you persistently spout and spin your lies and untruths, David. Have you no shame, no morals?
Israel is NOT the Jews. The Jews there are a minority cult. The majority live quite happily outside of that state.
Collier – “David Collier
@mishtal
Israel is a tiny democratic nation surrounded by despots and radical Islamic terror groups
Yet #Ireland are actually talking about boycotting #Israel
They don’t boycott China
They don’t boycott Pakistan
They don’t care about other conflicts
They just want to boycott the Jews”
You’re doing it again.
Lying that boycotting a right-wing law-flouting state is somehow antisemitic.
Israel with its minority cult does not equate to ‘the Jews’.
Lies, lies, lies and more lies.
Michael, you said you were pro Palestinian. Why dont you have any opinions on them, their leaders or their lives, only David and Jews?
Are you really pro Palestinian ?
Collier – “When Irish political players move to introduce the #OccupiedTerritoriesBill – they are simply discussing the introduction of state sponsored #Antisemitism in #Ireland. Given all that is wrong in the world – have they really nothing better to do than obsess about harming #Israel?”
‘The #OccupiedTerritoriesBill applies to ALL illegally occupied territories as defined by the UN, not just the illegally held areas of the West Bank. The bill targets all proceeds of war crimes not just those from Israel. Unless you’re saying Israel has a monopoly on war crimes?!?’
Michael, earlier in the thread you were asking what Zionism meant. Did you find out?
Collier – “Yet #Ireland are actually talking about boycotting #Israel”
No they aren’t . Collier is lying. It seeks to ban goods from the illegal settlements that ARE NOT IN ISRAEL.
Does Collier EVER tell the truth?
Michael, I must admit to getting a perverse pleasure from your posts. Seeing you get so cross with the things David writes and knowing that the best you can do is to reach for the Cap-Locks.
“Israel IS NOT the Jews. IT’S NOT. IT’S NOT….” Brilliant !!
Did you find out what Zionism meant?
After I asked posters to explain what Zionism means no Zionist has dared answer. Curious.
I asked David some years ago. Got a ‘It’s many things to many people’ sort of comeback.
Sharmuta, Explain to us why Muslims are at War with and killing fellow Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Algeria, Islamofascist Iran, Pakistan, ….
When Muslims can’t get along with fellow Muslims, how can anyone claim that Muslims can get along with NON-Muslims AKA “Infidels”.
But Michael, if you don’t know what it means, how come it always makes you so angry?
It can’t be anything to do with you being pro-Palestinian. I asked you for your opinion on them and you dared not answer. Curious.
Bellicose Kemp rubs his hands in glee …
Rɪᴄʜᴀʀᴅ Kᴇᴍᴘ ⋁
@COLRICHARDKEMP
India fights back against Chinese aggression. Five Chinese soldiers killed, 11 injured at the China-India border.
Wonder if he’s ok with Palestinians fighting back against Israeli aggression in taking their land.
Kemp is a disgrace to the UK. He has other loyalties.
Huge fan of Col. Kemp here. And I don’t think someone like you should be talking about loyalties, considering your fealty to flags with quite a bit of red and black in them.
GerryMe Corbyn and his fascist LaBOOR party are a disgrace to the UK. They have other loyalties.
Hence LaBOORs calamitous loss, its rejection by the voters, back in Decemeber 2019.
Happy Nakba!
Nakba?
David claims to “fight antisemitism everywhere”
David is telling porkies.
When David was questioned about his claim of’fighting antisemitism everywhere’, which of course is a lie.
Questioner : David, can you go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Do you think that’s a point?
Questioner : David, would you like to go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : I’m not a member of the Tory Party.
Questioner : Antisemitism exists everywhere, if you are here to fight antisemitism you fight antisemitism everywhere.
David : I agree
Questioner : You seem to ‘specialise’ in antisemitism in the Labour Party, Can you tell me what your record is on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Your question is disingenuous …….. I am a member of the Labour Party.
Collier tweets – The hard-left – “we want more women and ethnic diversity in government”
Enter – Priti Patel and Munira Mirza.
The hard-left – “Boo! no not them, they’re not our sort – they’re ‘racial gatekeepers’ (Uncle Toms) “.
__________
Is Collier lying AGAIN?
Would he like to link to the text that he’s said is from the “hard left”?(prob. meaning those to the left of Israel.)
Wow, everything makes you angry Michael, not just Zionism. Did you find out what it means?
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/yair-netanyahu-clear-tel-aviv-of-minorities-631443?fbclid=IwAR0c7I_uDeaXvc3L5X2Yq7hfVp8ilrvd00hlx9LSYo1PpZeujE5T1ihM38Q
Racist much?
Saw you tweeting furiously on David’s feed earlier Michael. Then you ran a mile when you were asked to comment on former terrorists Abbas and Arafat. As a pro Palestinian do you have an opinion on them?
Chronicle – “Incoming envoy Hotovely attacked Board over two-state commitment
Israeli minister slated to replace Mark Regev in London said Board had ‘failed to consult’ Israeli authorities”
…. and Israel doesn’t want to control others? Lol.
It’s got sod-all to do with Israel.
Stupid Sharmuta, There already is a two-state solution
1) Israel on the West Bank
2) Jordan on the East Bank
Happy Nakba!
Nakba?
David claims to “fight antisemitism everywhere”
David is telling porkies.
When David was questioned about his claim of’fighting antisemitism everywhere’, which of course is a lie.
Questioner : David, can you go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Do you think that’s a point?
Questioner : David, would you like to go through your record on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : I’m not a member of the Tory Party.
Questioner : Antisemitism exists everywhere, if you are here to fight antisemitism you fight antisemitism everywhere.
David : I agree
Questioner : You seem to ‘specialise’ in antisemitism in the Labour Party, Can you tell me what your record is on exposing antisemitism in the Tory Party?
David : Your question is disingenuous …… I am a member of the Labour Party.
Michael, we control you every day. You’re here aren’t you?
Did you have any luck finding out what Zionism means?
For those of you unfortunate enough to read Mike Farmer’s wheezy windbagging, I have constructed a brief but hopefully comprehensive guide to his very predictable style here. These are the core ideals of one Muck Framer:
1. Palestinians are eternal victims.
2. Anti-Zionism isn’t Anti-Semitic.
3. Conservative Anti-Semitism is a huge problem; Labour Anti-Semitism is not a problem at all and would cease being an issue if pro-Israel Jews would shut up about it.
4. The effects of Nazism should focus on anyone but Jews, during the brief periods when we focus on Nazism at all, and it should always be implied that the real victims of Nazism are anti-Israel folks.
5. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are great folks.
6. The only people who have the right to endlessly talk about Israel are people who don’t want the state to exist.
Everything Muck writes is based on these 6 shitty soundbites. Pass it on.
No. 2 is correct. You’ve more of a mind than David.
p.s. just teasing. Neither of you have.
This article is pretty selective on certain things. The Kaddish for Hamas was definitely a wrong step but even years since it happened, it’s brought up every time to weaponise against anyone who dares to speak out against Israeli policies or annexation – as if every single person makes up that tiny minority of radicals who did that mistake – perhaps we should paint every right-wing Zionist as those who’ve said racist/fascist things in the past.
David selectively ignores some of the real issues and dilemmas that annexation would bring about in terms of imposing rule over tens of thousands of Palestinians living in the area – do we allow them to be part of Israel and have voting rights? or are we forcing them to live under a state they don’t identify with but deny them equal rights to other citizens there?
The Pal Authority have formally accepted the 1967 borders and thus Israel’s right to exist – why then aren’t Israel and them coming together for negotiations?
Furthermore, the San Remo was just one of many resolutions and proposals for a Jewish home – it was just the most generous one – obviously it is then selected as the only solution that should hold water today – even though it would mean ruling over an Arab majority which is unrealistic today.
Owen. You are clearly wrong. I explicitly split those speaking out against annexation into the group that said Kaddish and *those that didn’t*. I talk of more moderate Zionists and their reasons for opposition. So your entire initial argument is discredited simply be reading the article it responded to. Didn’t you bother to read it – or are you simply so wrapped up in your own way of thinking that the words that are written don’t penetrate through.
I also don’t ignore the issues. I mention them. I talk of the citizenship issue and suggest that until we know exactly what is going to happen – everything is based on politicised supposition. Again it is all in the blog above.
As for the Pal Authority accepting. Yes, they accepted during Oslo too. And then the buses started exploding. The trouble with the ‘Pal Authority’, is they have no ‘authority’. People in the west, wrapped up in western civilisation tend to think of the Palestinians as they would a local European government – capable of negotiating for their own and striking deals they can follow through on. I’m sorry, but it isn’t real. The Palestinians are a non-cohesive set of warring factions. Deal with one, the other will target your buses. Sad it may be, but true it certainly is.
You mention San Remo as if I have politically stood behind it. I haven’t. As I consistently state in my blog. There are historical truths. San Remo is certainly an important historical truth. But the Israelis are the ones living there. They are the people with the knowledge and experience. They have to live with the consequences. They are politically astute and part of a dynamic and thriving democracy. I leave it to them to decide their own future – in fact – I would be something of an undemocratic supremacist if I didn’t.