In June, I saw an advert for a David Icke event due to be held this month in Watford. I didn’t think twice. In antisemitic circles, I have seen David Icke material shared more than any other. Icke is rancid and many of his vicious memes carry hard-core antisemitic images. If people are talking about conspiracies with Rothschild and Zionism and wish to present their case, it is David Icke they hold up. It is true that I could just read what he has to say by purchasing a book on Amazon, but an event is different. An event is multi-dimensional, and you can see both the manner of the man and the way the crowd reacts to him. There was no way I was going to miss the experience.  On 27th June, almost five months before the event itself, I had already purchased my ticket.

It would be an understatement to say I am not a fan. The event lasted over four-and-a-half hours and for the last thirty minutes, I was screaming inside for it to end. However, it is also wrong to discard everything that Icke says. In two-hundred and seventy minutes, there is plenty of time for everything, razor sharp commentary, racism and bat-crazy theory alike. My role is never just to sit and wait for the headline. I need to get inside the argument. How can you challenge someone if you do not understand what they are trying to say? Simply ignoring them or calling them ‘cranks’ is not enough.

David Icke clearly resonates with some. That issue must be addressed if you ever seek to understand why people like David Icke can have a Facebook page with over 750k followers and a Twitter profile with another 193k. Why he can take the main auditorium at the Watford Colosseum and why people sit in silence for so long at his events. Don’t just look at Icke’s twisted answers, it is also because of *some* of the questions he asks, that he fills those seats.

The venue and public pressure

Icke’s team did not announce the venue until twenty-four hours before the event. They do this to restrict time for opponents to pressure the venue to cancel the event (for example last year, Old Trafford cancelled an event). When the venue email did come through, it was given as the Watford Colosseum, with a theatre capacity of 1400.  During the day, the Jewish Labour Movement, Momentum and a group called ‘Socialists against Antisemitism‘ spread the news they would publicly demonstrate outside the venue:

The counter demo

Much like opposing Gilad Atzmon, this was an open goal. Even without his lizards, Icke’s populist message today mirrors the far-right narrative and attacks issues such as identity politics, LGBTQ, rising left-wing fascist tendency, immigration and state control. He ridicules core left-wing palaces such as modern academia. Putting aside his fruitcake conspiracies, Icke is part of a spectrum that turns our traditional thinking of right-left politics into a confusing archaic mould that is far past its sell by date.

I arrived early as I always do and there was no demonstration outside. I took up a place at the front, with a clear view of the stage. Needing a coffee and with the venue not selling hot drinks, my jacket held my seat and I left the Colosseum. As I did so (at about 18:00), a handful of people began to gather outside. When I returned, there were perhaps fifteen anti-Icke demonstrators:

Icke

 

I have since seen images on social media of someone in a Lizard mask and a few people with a large banner. Consider this – that image above was taken just before 18:20. *ten minutes* before the show started. What is the point of starting a demonstration when 90% of the people are already inside? And whilst *any* opposition may be a welcome sign, the failure of the *SIX* groups associated with this event to create a strong visible presence suggests the demonstration itself represents the fringe rather than the other way around.

Whether moderates in the Labour party like it or not, many of Icke’s UK fans are attached now to the Party. Corbyn’s core faction is the point where ‘far-right’ and ‘far-left’ can intermingle happily. You only need to look at the reaction to the Momentum Facebook post opposing the event (some of the most popular):

momentum

This was a response on Twitter from someone claiming to be a Labour member with 29k followers:

Back in my seat, I looked around. There were maybe 800-1000 in the room. One of David Icke’s sons, Gareth, came on stage and played a few tunes on his guitar as a warm-up:

And you know what they say about apples and trees:

 

David Icke speaks

How to write up a report on a David Icke event? It wasn’t just the hours I sat in the Colosseum in Watford. I have had to listen to his words again. For five days now I have been living in the poison that is David Icke. Forgive me if this is all a little shaky.

This wasn’t a talk explicitly on ‘Rothschild Zionism‘. In fact, the words ‘Rothschild’, ‘Zionism’ ‘Israel’ ‘Palestine’ and ‘antisemitism’ were barely spoken. The word ‘Jewish’ was only ever mentioned in near-acceptable and contextualised references. Sometimes people’s impression of how this works is distorted. Icke doesn’t stand up and publicly attack ‘the Jews’. Icke’s antisemitism creates a hidden hand, an ‘elite 1%’, behind *everything* (in Icke’s case it is more of hidden talon than a hidden hand). Icke’s antisemitism is rooted in ‘the Protocols‘ and he doesn’t need to attack every Jew, he only has to mention successful ones.

In his video on Rothschild Zionism he said this: ‘Israel is not the home of the Jewish people, it is the fiefdom of the Rothschild dynasty which also controls the America administration, the British administration‘. Every time that 1% is referenced in the talk, a new slide appears. Somewhere in whatever image is then displayed is either a Jewish figure or Jewish symbols:

David Icke

An Icke slide from the event. A classic reference to the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion‘. Icke talks of those secretly conspiring to control both sides of the argument as that image faces the crowd.

David Icke the populist

David Icke immediately made light of his own infamy, by apologising to those ‘he had not yet offended’ – adding with a promise ‘he will get to them’. The argument presented is structured, layered. He opens with a discussion of identity politics and on these issues some of what he says is accurate and relevant. Icke has intelligence and simple populist attacks on LGBT identifiers generates a loud round of applause. We are told that we are living in an age of ‘inversion’, where doctors don’t heal, universities don’t teach and so on. There is an element of truth in most of the points he makes. He then moves up a level and suggests our lifetime is pre-programmed. We are all slaves, meandering our way through the life-path, just as we are expected to do.

At this point David Icke pulls an extraordinary straw man. He suggests that the belief that there is life on other planets is ridiculed. It’s a magicians trick. Nobody I know of disputes the notion that the universe may be crawling with life. Yet Icke dismissed his opposition by grossly distorting their position. Icke is ridiculed because of his belief in ‘Reptoids‘ not over a discussion of the possibility of other life in the universe. As the evening progressed I realised that this type of blatant distortion is a core part of his delivery.

Icke’s spider

The first part of the show is entirely about how ‘unconscious’ we are, and in this there is little difference to any other new-age spiritual guide. We’re blind and we need to access beyond our notion of reality to see the truth. Yet Icke is no normal new-age thinker. Icke wants to show us why it is happening, who controls us and what we can see when the ‘curtains open and the mist clears’:

And it starts, we are introduced to the web, ‘inner sanctums’ and ‘secret societies’. The Mossad, the flag of Israel and the Star of David all visible. Jews are 0.2% of the world population so they seem a little over-represented in Icke’s ‘mist clearing’ exercise. Then a fact is thrown at the audience – in ‘1921 the Rockefeller family in American established the Council on Foreign Relations‘. I searched. I found an anniversary history of the Council online that suggests the Council began as an inquiry of academics set up by Woodrow Wilson’s aide Colonel Edward M. House, to look at post world-war international relations. It sought identity as an Anglo-American alliance but eventually morphed into the Council. Rockefeller isn’t mentioned in the history until the 1930s.

This is the heart of popular global conspiracy. They all mention the same targets. The Federal Reserve, the Council on Foreign Affairs, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group and so on. This is little but a rehash of Pat Robertson’s New World Order with the Illuminati organisations all feeding the ‘Antichrist’. It always amuses me how these conspiracy tales can rarely see beyond the New York horizon. I found Icke’s presentation of this over-simplified and sloppy, but hey, who is going to check every ‘conspiracy fact’, thrown their way?

David Icke gives a science lesson

Icke then spends the next two hours going through a check list about ‘controlling perceptions of the target population’. It was clunky and very repetitive. He uses semi-scientific statements, mixed up with total psychobabble to produce a platform upon which he wishes to base his entire philosophy.

Icke is right, we do only see part of what is visible, he is also right in that we only hear part of what can be heard. He delves into why things feel solid and the science of electrons and resistance. Icke uses the existence of rainbows to challenge our concept of reality. We even get told how many chromosomes a human has in comparison to a potato. All good stuff, even if he barely seems to understand some of it (his description of electrons and matter was really shaky and what does it matter if a potato has more chromosomes), but none of it means that Lizard People are walking amongst us.

Once the audience is suitably baffled, and we all ‘fully believe’ we are blind people being led by a manipulative and sadistic ‘something’, it is time for David Icke to discuss the ‘hidden controller’, that central spider controlling the entire matrix. Alien time has arrived!

We meet the hybrids

David Icke begins this ‘level’ by supporting the idea of alien abduction, bringing examples from ancient texts to suggest humans and aliens go ‘way back’. He then uses that to reinforce his ‘grand unified conspiracy‘. This needs to be understood about David Icke. He doesn’t just use ‘a’ conspiracy theory, he somehow supports all of them. In fact, there is not a popular conspiracy that seems to have been excluded from Icke’s conspiracy mash-up (I call it ‘Conspiracies Realigned in an Associated Pattern’- or ‘CRAP’ for short).

As a child I used to read books like ‘Chariot of the Gods‘, and in Watford I felt as if I had been transported back to the 1970s. Icke drove the point home, ‘there is a force that is outside of the human visual field that is manipulating this world‘. At that point he brings us back to his spider’s web, pointing out that the spider at the centre is not actually human. I look around, there is total silence in the room. We have just been introduced to Icke’s hybrids.

David Icke brings us back to conspiracy on earth

Having been presented with the theory, David Icke moves into practice and seeks to show us how those naughty hybrids are manipulating us. He turns to the ‘Project for the New American Century‘, a document from 2000 that is drooled over by modern day conspiracy theorists. Published a year before 9/11, the document is used to suggest that the US had planned to embark on regime change in North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Libya and Syria and thus 9/11 becomes a ‘false flag’ conducted to provide the excuse. In reality it does nothing of the sort. It presents the Geo-political vision of the authors and there are no surprises inside.

The clear tell-tale sign here is that ‘Afghanistan’ is not listed and all the other nations in 2000 were openly hostile to the US. Yet Icke still messes this up and I am using this as an example of how sloppy David Icke is. He puts the slide up and it contains nations such as Lebanon, not included in the original document:

People either hang on David Icke’s every word or throw insults his way. Few people bother to look at his message at all. Several years after 9/11, General Wesley Clark began to publicly speak of a conversation he had with a ‘Senior General’ who had spoken of ‘regime change operations in seven countries over a period of five years’ (see conspiracy site). In that list was Lebanon. Clark’s comments are a second popular source for those pushing the deep-state ‘war on terror’ conspiracy. Icke has clearly mashed-up two separate conspiracy tales. This sloppy research, with little attention to detail, seems to be the way Icke works.  Back in the room and with ‘proof’ of the conspiracy given, Icke is now free to play with 9/11:

Just lazy

Icke’s message is rarely one-dimensional. In the slide above is clearly 9/11 conspiracy, but that isn’t Icke’s key point. Few in the room believe the official 9/11 story anyway. Icke seeks to drive home the fact that the ‘hidden hand’ is stopping us from seeing the truth so presents an online warning message. I went online and tested. The first twenty 9/11 conspiracy pages were reached without issue and even Wiki has a 9/11 conspiracy page. The image above isn’t actually from the open web at all but is related to a recent internal crackdown on ‘toxic material‘ by the ‘Reddit‘ platform.

As the internet giants are commercial companies and because of *the market* and *public pressure*, none of them can monetise offensive content, Icke’s complaint seems to be that these companies won’t give ‘haters’ the benefit of an unequal platform (you cannot make money from us but *MUST* give us the same benefits – if you don’t we will tell everyone you’re related to Lizards).

But I placed the slide here because it again highlights the laziness of Icke’s research. In the bottom right corner of the warning image is the logo for ‘The Free Thought Project‘. When I first saw the slide I thought the logo came from the group behind the message itself. It doesn’t. What they are is another Conspiracy-Pseudoscience website. Icke doesn’t seem to have seen this message himself, nor does he appear to have followed through on the content of the article. Had he done so, he could have presented the image as someone really seeing it themselves would have done:

Yet he didn’t. He just screen-grabbed someone else’s story and blindly used that instead. Just lazy.

Self referencing

There was a slyness to the whole presentation. There were dozens of news articles shown on the slides, that Icke used as a prompt to push his theories further. This is an example of one:

It looks like an image of a news report from a legitimate website. Yet almost all the articles were posted by one man, Andrew Cheetham, and *all* these screenshots are taken directly from David Icke’s own website. I tried to find out who Cheetham is but didn’t get very far. Some on Icke’s own forum think he is Icke’s Alter Ego. I saw a little evidence to suggest this is not true but got no further. In any case, Icke’s slideshow creates a sense of legitimacy for crazy arguments when the source of some of these – is Icke himself.

Images of hate

Like the memes he posts, it is the images on the slides that carry more of a sinister message than the talk itself. Here is George Soros, complete with devil face and Lizard eyes:

David Icke

Although ‘Rothschild Zionism’ is not mentioned in the talk, they are referenced in the slides. Rothschild Zionism is presented as part of the web of global manipulation. Soros is depicted as an evil puppet master. And what are the Rothschild Zionists and people like Soros doing? They are attacking the ‘indigenous’ populations by financing mass immigration. They seek to divide and rule and bring about an end to nation states. All part of the grand plan we are told.

There was a short break at 10:45 and then we returned for another eighty minutes. There was little new in this. It was boring, repetitive and by the end, I wanted to scratch out my eyes.

It could have been worse

To be fair to David Icke the event was not as bad as I expected. To place that ‘compliment’ into context, we must remember that David Icke is the source of some truly horrific memes. Those he doesn’t make, he shares:

David Icke’s links often lead to some of the webs darkest antisemitic sites. His memes are everywhere where antisemites reside. Regardless of how he tries to explain it away, he clearly has attached Jews to power, power to secret power and then secret power to ‘reptoids’.

This I think is still the scariest part of the evening. 1000 people cheering a hard-core antisemite. I cannot tell you how badly that made me feel:

Or perhaps I am being unkind. Maybe like me they were just thankful it was over.

You just have to be stupid

The presentation was clunky, the research sloppy and Icke even gets his conspiracy stories mixed up. The evening was repetitive beyond reason. Icke’s history, from early flirtations with psychics to quoting from the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion‘ in his bookThe Robots’ Rebellion’ can be found elsewhere. Marlon Solomon asks if Icke is the UK’s leading antisemite. I may have have seen worse, but none with such a reach. I have never personally seen any given rapturous applause by almost a thousand people. All those people heard what I did and yet somehow they felt it was good enough to cheer. Chilling.

I am a firm supporter of Occam’s Razor. The principle that suggests the route with the fewest assumptions is normally the truth. Icke presents the opposite view, creating a long-convoluted route with multiple layers to build an invisible story. Even without the racism I find it nonsensical and unpalatable.

On conspiracy I think that any group of more than three or four people would be incapable of keeping a secret indefinitely. A mid-size corporation cannot even get a train to run on time, so the whole notion of hidden global control defies logic. I am not sure why people cannot see how ludicrous some of Icke’s messages are, and I am not even referring to the existence of the Lizards. One minute Icke is preaching of the humility required for Socratic ignorance and the next he pushes complicated conspiratorial diagrams that present hidden hybrid creatures as supreme controllers. Is he unaware of the hypocrisy and false logic of his own position?

Icke is also evidence of Poe’s Law, but Icke is serious and so are his many fans. Listen to the applause. We dismiss Icke because he is a ‘fruitcake’, but he is one who spreads poison and has a large following. It is wrong to casually dismiss someone who has memes shared in the millions. Icke’s hate should be opposed not ignored.

 

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165 thoughts on “When David met David, an evening with David Icke

  1. Interesting piece David

    Went to the Bookmark Socialist Bookstore for a talk by Rob Ferguson last night , where this Icke meeting came up.
    It was rubbished as a right wing do with Tommy Robinson type people attending.
    But the the whole thrust of Fergusons talk was about the Zionists (bad) and Corbyn and the Socialists (good).
    I got the feeling while sitting there, that I too was surrounded by conspiracy theorists, though not of the same vicious calibre as Icke.
    Rather these ‘conspiracy theorists’ believe that Judaism and Zionism are totally disconnected, and that Jews do not need a homeland as they are perfectly safe in the diaspora (and that history proves this). The ‘Bund’ was brought up as an example of a perfectly good idea for Jews to follow, while totally ignoring the fact that vtrtually the entire ‘Bund’ was wiped out during the Holocaust.

    There was some interesting discusion on the demonstration outside Icke;
    one strain being that because the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) was involved, no good socialist/Palestinian supporter should be there as the JLM is just an extension of Netanyahu politics;
    the other strain, and the more intelligent and adult, was that all should join in demonstrating against the common enemy Icke, and then when he and his ilk are defeated, the war between the Palestinian supporters (and Jew haters; my view and not said in any form at the meeting) can resume.
    It was raised at the meeting that there is Antisemitism in the Palestinian and Leftist camps, though this was stated and then not brought up again

    Interesting thoughts on ‘Chariots of the Gods’ which was quite a controversial book in itss day, with many rubbishing both the book and author.
    Although I did not agree with all in the book, I agree totally with von Dainekens reasoning that there is other life in the universe besides us and that possibly we have haed visits from that other life over the years (not sci-fi and ‘Alien’ movies etc)

    1. Richard – I didn’t go to the bookshop as I didn’t know if I would be given access. It sounds like it was interesting. I prefer that type of meeting, because I always try to understand how some of these people remain oblivious to the fact their power to affect change is existentially tied in to the level of hate that exists. Without the hard-core filling the seats or buying the books, they’d be no dynamic at all to their movements. Most of the people at the Icke event would vote Corbyn, however people like Ferguson want to portray it.
      The Von Daniken books were fun. I brought them up because some of what Icke said at the time reminded me of it. I am clearly not against the idea of a universe teaming with life, nor would I reject entirely the notion of previous visitation. I do however draw the line when people start talking about it as if they know ‘the truth’ let alone when they start describing some type of alien conspiracy.

    2. “I got the feeling while sitting there, that I too was surrounded by conspiracy theorists, though not of the same vicious calibre as Icke.” –
      what utter nonsense. People who are ‘anti-Zionists’, even though they pretend to be ‘progressive’, are every bit as vicious as Icke.

      1. Don’t agree with that Leah, everything is a spectrum and I’ve come across many AZ’s who don’t buy into the conspiracy at all, some who buy into a little, some who go for certain elements of it, and so on. When I come across ‘progressive AZ’s who don’t buy into conspiracy but also can’t point to Israel on a map, it is fair to attack their ignorance, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable labeling them as vicious as ‘Icke’.

    3. “Interesting thoughts on ‘Chariots of the Gods’ which was quite a controversial book in itss day, with many rubbishing both the book and author.” –
      it wasn’t ‘controversial’. It was ignorant rubbish and scientifically all but illiterate.

      1. To me it was a total joke, but a lot of people got into it, like a lot of people get into Icke (yucky), and antisemitism. A course in physical anthropology helped me understand what people are, so I no longer get freaked out about the kooks.

  2. Counter chant this…

    Fromt he River to the Sea,
    Pal-e-STINE Will Never Be!

    Here is a 30 second Youtube of a newsreel from 1941 showing National SOCIALIST hitler meeting and sitting down with the obsequious nazi fanboi Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

        1. oh Stephen, I have about 30 unfinished blogs, full of antisemitism. Time gets the better of me and much of what I have will remain unpublished. If you think I am struggling to find it, you underestimate both the quantity and my research skills. I went to Icke because I have never seen him and for me, the personal experience at an event is always the best introduction.

        2. Well said Stephen, but it’s par for the course to be labeled anti semitic if you dare criticize the genocide of Palestinians by Israel/support Palestine in any way, shape or form.
          #BDS

          1. Hello John. Just on a point of etiquette, there is an expectation here that those using the term ‘genocide’ here will also include the terms ‘occupation. oppression, imperialist, concentration camp, child-killers, racists, fascists and ZioNazis’ otherwise we will be unclear on which side of the argument you fall. This is a non-negotiable social media protocol.

          2. And yet another thick ignorant illiterate deranged troll screeches ‘genocide’ without a clue what the word means.
            Fuck off, pathetic creep.

            1. For the Lady Leah …

              Genocide, the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race.

              Happening right now to the Palestinians.

              1. And yet their population is increasing exponentially. How do you explain that?

                1. The attempt is there. Any other group subjected to Genocide in Europe over the past 100 years, Barbara? No?

                  1. Of course you ignorant cow, your Grand Mooftis pal, Socialist hitler, committed Genocide against the Jews and Gypsys of Europe.

              2. “Happening right now to the Palestinians” – deranged crap from a deranged creep.

          3. Hey pal, You got it backwards.

            It’s your “palestinians” who are trying to commit GENOCIDE – trying to continue Socialist hitlers GENOCIDE of Jews, of their “prophet”s GENOCIDE of Jews AND of Infidels (see 9/11, London’s 7/7, Boston Marathon bombing, Pan Am 103, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Bastille Day in Nice France, …)

            But the Israelis are Resisting the admonitions of the “prophet” Mohammed.

            1. “trying to continue Socialist hitlers GENOCIDE “.

              But it’s Israel that is occupying, annexing and moving in that direction, Ted.

              1. You Ignorant Cow., a property ownership dispute (like the one between India and Pakistan over Kashmir) is NOT GENOCIDE.

          4. “Well said Stephen”…
            What did he say that was “well said”?
            Your standards are low.

            As for you, you twerp, there is no genocide of ‘palestinians’, and you ARE an antisemite.
            Let me say it again, you are an antisemite. You are defaming the Jewish State with a phony and wholly unsupportable accusation, and not just any accusation, but one that cuts deeply on the Jews, accusing them of the slaughter they endured doing the holocaust. That’s antisemitism, it’s a form of holocaust denial, and you are a scumbag, a person of the lowest order. You have no integrity at all.
            When people defame Jews and then euphemistically call it ‘criticism’ they are practicing antisemitism.
            Let me say it again, you are an antisemite. This is a problem for you because that holocaust thing gave antisemitism a bad name, and you would like to be known as a good person when you’re really just a shitty little antisemite.
            You might as well walk around wearing a sign,”John Owens, Antisemite”.

            My apologies to David.

        3. Stephen, I have no doubt that there exist 30 unfinished blogs. Each blank page containing the single word ‘Corbyn’.
          David’s writers’ block has for the moment left him unable to summon the imagination to flesh out the pages with crimes the Labour Party is guilty of.

          Amusing that David and Galber both managed to weave Mr. Corbyn into a blog on Icke.

          1. I get the feeling that if anyone has blank pages featuring the word “Corbyn” littering their domain, then that person would be you.

              1. David is investigating present day antisemitism and if Corbyn’s name keeps surfacing then that’s his bad luck. Your fanboying is less easy to understand because, of course, you are a troll and as such are unable to articulate your reasons because that’s not how trolls roll.

                1. You are so naive, Barbara.

                  Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party, save for an internal ‘Friends of Israel’ group support Palestinian rights to a state of their own. David, together with this group of lobbiers for Israel seek to have Corbyn removed, lest a Labour government stop the appeasement of Israel that the current Tory Party continues with, even supplying that state with military equipment. David’s blogs have for months been part of a deceitful witchhunt to convince all and sundry that Corbyn’s Party is a stronghold of antisemitism, despite recent reports that the Party is no less/more an1tisemitic than other political Parties. David’s attack on Corbyn for being one of thousands of membrs of Palestine Live, a group which contained perhaps one in a thousand ‘racist’ posts. Corbyn had been ‘joined’ onto the group by others. It’s all to bad-mouth those that recognise Israel’s transgressions.

                  1. There is no such entity as “Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party”. What is your evidence for claiming that Friends of Israel groups don’t support a Palestinian state? The one I belong to certainly does- but not at the expense of the Jewish state,which is entirely reasonable. All governments supply arms/trade with regimes that some purists might not approve of,but Israel isn’t in that category for most people when there are murderous theocracies to consider.Even your beloved “Jeremy” would find himself dealing with realpolitik if he ever comes to power,which seems unlikely,since he’s just a sloganeering throwback. You also seem to be blissfully ignorant or *naive* about the Left’s historic problem with Jews and the direct lineage to someone like that authentic ‘working class’ hero Jeremy, his brother Piers and son, Sebastian. I might also suggest that if the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition is unable to curate his own online presence without finding himself added to racist sites and endorsing racist posts ,then how in hell do you expect him to govern the country?He should stick to trying to find his arse with both hands,as should you.

                    1. You a ‘friend’ of a racist state? Shame on you.

                      Palestine Live is NOT a racist site. You have swallowed David’s propaganda. Yep, naive.

                    2. Palestine Live was founded and is run by a racist. Over a two week period in February the majority of posts on that site were made by people who share either Holocaust Denial, Rothschild Conspiracy or support the idea Jews control the world. A 280 page document was produced that PROVED this was the case. You’re a pathetic troll that spends its time defending racists.

              2. Ever noticed Corbyn’s obsession with Jews and Israel?

                Eventually Corbyn will meet dustbin and as they say, that will be that.

  3. Bellers, I knew this guy would be right up your alley. I can see you and the Personae snuggling up in the tap room of the Raus & Crown in your polyester lilac trackies and your “Zios shot JR!” caps while the old booby’s classic ‘Bananas for Iguanas’ blares out of the jukebox.

    What a gas eh!

      1. Na, I’m not breaking character here Bellers. This ones just about the banter. The trainee gateposting can wait.

          1. Oh come on Bellers. “Bananas for Iguanas” was quite good.

            Ever so soon those two little grey cells in your tiny tiny brain will collide, there’ll be a small pfooof and you’ll realise “Huh, Ian’s really great”.

            Until then I’ll have to make do with your slogans and the odd insult. Meh!

              1. It’s only banter Bellers. You agreed with me ages ago that none of this matters. Have you had a re-think?

  4. Apologies if I’ve overlooked an answer that is already in your report David : What is your impression of the demographic of the audience? Age-range etc.?

    1. damn Keith….I forgot to add it. I kept reminding myself to deal with the audience.so thank you for raising it. I was highly surprised – I had expected it to be old, very white and very male. The only correct guess was male, and although a fair percentage of women were there, I think they were almost all accompanied. The audience was not ‘white’ and it shows how far-left and far-right are all mixed up. About a quarter to a third of the audience were from the BAME community. As for age. Not many 18-22 year olds, but beyond that, a mix of ages. When I looked through the audience I saw the ones I expected to – but they certainly were not alone in the hall.

        1. Black, Asian, and minority ethnic – a way of saying non-white communities of the UK.

      1. “I had expected it to be old, very white and very male.”

        As were portrayed in the non-antisemitic mural, David?

  5. Farmer boy

    The Jews
    The Gypsied/Roma
    The Slavs
    Gays
    The Disabled
    The Tsutsi

    All were earmarked for, and suffered genocide at the hands of their enemies
    Maybe you should study and try to understand history instead of being a mindless and stupid troll

    1. My point to Barbara reinforced by you. Thanks.

      p.s, you didn’t include the Palestinians.

      but thanks again.

      1. Just to clarify I have no idea what your “point” was, but a little deconstruction reveals this: you are unilaterally redefining ‘genocide’ to suit your purposes (and I thought that you and your fellow hate mongers didn’t like people appropriating language?), and you are not above using an actual genocide – the Holocaust–as a taunt on a site dedicated to rooting out antisemitism?? And, naturally you still haven’t addressed the point of Palestinian population increase in the midst of a supposedly genocidal campaign. Which, incidentally, is a good thing as it means they are well fed and have access to medical care. As I have said before, you are all trolls with nothing to say.

        1. YOU maintained that that those that still exist could not be suffering genocide but then tell me that the Jews, who still exist, were subjected to genocide.

          My point.

          I have NEVER taunted with the Holocaust where Jews and others were dispatched mechanically ……. wash your mouth out. It is David’s pet mongrel Ted that gloats over murder and dispossession.

          1. poppycock. A dramatic decrease in the number of Jews living in Europe came about because of Genocide.
            The Arabs of the area have not suffered a decrease in population – in fact, their number keeps rising. Ergo, there is no case at all for Genocide.
            Stop being so silly.

          2. Ignorant cow, I CELEBRATE the “Nakba” which is the FAILURE of 5 attacking Arab armies, NONE of which was the army of an existing “Pal-e-STINE”, to slaughter the Jews of Israel and continue to wage the Grand Muftis ally, Socialist Shitler’s War Against the Jews.

            Sadly for fascist cows like yourself, the Israelis are NOT the unarmed Jews of WW2 or Khaybar.

            May you continue to bark and moo at your defeats.

          3. You were suggesting that the Holocaust wasn’t a ‘proper’ genocide since there are, unfortunately in your estimation, still plenty of Jews left alive to populate Israel and to trick poor, simple Jeremy Corbyn into making antisemitic blunders with their nasty Jewish guile. If you’re going to be a proper, grown up fascist then have the courage to own your statements. Or, preferably, go and troll elsewhere because you’re sickening.

            1. Your problem Edward is I have never whined about ” the defeat called the Nakba” or ever used the expression ” the Nakba” for that matter. Don’t you have some pressing business on the car park of the Houston Astradome to attend to ? Like maybe a chilli eating contest ?

              1. Dumb Bellamy, It’s hard to understand what you’re trying to say while you have all those cocks in your mouth.

      2. The ‘palestinians’ suffered a genocide, farm boy? What a shame that would be if it were true (it isn’t), especially considering how recently they were created. But alas, it isn’t true. To make the disappearance of the ‘palestinians’ possible one would have to live one’s life traveling backward through time instead of forward as the rest of us do. It would however be a very short trip. If you take it, don’t forget to re witness the break up of the Beatles, which you can use as a sort of road post. Two seconds later you’ll see the ‘palestinians’ disappear.

  6. You proved nothing. You reached your own conclusions and lalelled it proof!

    You cinstantly use terms that are misnomers … Holocaust Denial and Antisemitism are but two of them.

    You lobby for and defend Zionist Israel. Both Zionism and Israel are racist, You support both!

    1. I absolutely lobby for and defend Zionist Israel. In fact,I do it “cinstantly “.

      1. The term, used by yourself, suggests that those accused of such deny that the Holocaust took place. The term is used to smear those who question the figures quoted.

  7. Genocide is intentional action to destroy a people in whole or in part!

    David, we are talking here of attempted Genocide, hence those targetted still exist, Jews and Arabs.

    Seems ‘silly’ knows the word!

  8. Ted, make that Jews, Roma, Poles, the infirm.

    But take care. Admitting that other than Jews were targetted in the Holocaust could get you labelled as a traitor or ‘self-hating’ by others.

    1. The more you say, the clearer we see you for what you are. A racist troll spending his time ranting incoherently into the ether with a whisky bottle for company. We’re not debating with you, you fool, we’re laughing at you.

      1. Racist? Show how I am racist.

        Don’t drink!

        7 guesses/wild accusations left, Barbara.

        But you aren’t laughing. You’re floundering.

        1. I cannot imagine myself walking up to groups fighting anti-Muslim hate (pushing ideas supported by the vast majority of Muslims), laughing in their face, dismissing their claims and then, worst of all, pretending I knew more about ‘being a Muslim’ than they did, attacking their identity as Muslim, explaining how ‘they got it wrong’ and so on…. I cannot possibly imagine such a scenario… whatever you are Mike, you are unpleasant. But hey, I am more interested in why you think my use of Holocaust Denial is a misnomer?

          1. David, no weasel words please. Spell out what you are accusing me of and give instances where I have been guilty of them …. in your opinion.

  9. Replying to Farmer is an exercise in futility
    He is not here to engage in constructive dialogue to further develop the discussion
    Rather he is here to try disrupt and confuse
    He never offers an argument, only irrelevant commentary
    A total waste of time

    1. I totally agree,Richard. I engaged with him to see how far he would go-pretty far,it seems, flirting with Holocaust denial amongst other distressing views- and I stand by my original post about him being blocked. I note that Stephen Bellamy has been lying low or confining himself to his default mode of ‘flirtatious ‘comments whilst Farmer has taken centre stage. I expect him to emerge from his bunker spewing hate once he’s finished helping out at food banks and taking old ladies bins in.Me, I’m done, and have nothing but respect for David who engages with these wicked individuals at the deepest level. He must feel like taking a long bath in Dettol.

        1. For those viewers watching in black and white “Gulp” is the new “Yawn” in the Second Gear activist’s playbook. Ain’t that so Mr. Stephen, you scamp?

      1. “flirting with Holocaust denial”??!? Text please! You’re as slimy and dishonest as Richard.

        The bulk of hate on this blog comes from those that support David.

        All you have are Buzzwords and Jargon, none of it used honestly!

    2. I’ve questioned David on several things. Not always getting an answer.

      You are being dishonest. I’m not surprised, Richard.

  10. “You’re a pathetic troll that spends its time defending racists.”

    But David, you are a Zionist.(though you can’t tell me me just what Zionism is).

    You support Israel. Israel is a racist endeavour(by Nation Law).

    The IHRA definition describes me as antisemitic for describing Israel thus. Do you agree that I am according to the def.?

    1. Mike, stay focused. On Holocaust Denial you said

      “The term, used by yourself, suggests that those accused of such deny that the Holocaust took place. The term is used to smear those who question the figures quoted.”

      Poppycock. I am not sure how many died. Whole regions were wiped out. I use 6 because it is the recognised theme, but am perfectly willing to accept it may have been 5.1 or 5.5. I don’t see how those numbers are important and leave it to historians and academics to research and discover. What we know is that a systematic Genocide took place. At no point have I ever suggested academic investigation into the Holocaust is a form of Denial. So my question would be where have you seen me do it. Can you point me to posts I have referred to as denial that you see as legitimate investigation? It is your accusation and down to you to provide evidence for it.

      And what number is the line Mike? At what point do you think sloppy and hate fueled research into the Holocaust becomes Denial? And why do you think that these ‘anti-Zionists’ have such a coincidental fetish for revisionist Holocaust history?

      1. What then, David, is Holocaust revision.? Are those who engage in it to be condemned?

        1. Oh, Mike. Most people engaged in ‘Holocaust Revision’ are pushing unscientific, preposterous research as a way of DENYING that THE Holocaust (the systematic and industrial slaughter of the Jewish people) ever happened. An event in which a few hundred thousand people died from illness and hunger (and the hunger came about ONLY as the allied troops cut off the German supply lines) isn’t THE Holocaust. Therefore, if you hate the Jews so much you even wish to artificially distort the history of their Genocide you are engaged in Holocaust Denial. Someone doing this should rightfully be condemned.

          But you are evading question after question.

          Can you point me to posts I have referred to as denial that you see as legitimate investigation? It is your accusation and down to you to provide evidence for it.
          Can you show me someone engaged in Holocaust revision that you consider to be legitimate questioning?

          1. David, to me you posted …..”That’s an empty term Mike. Most people engaged ….”

            To all else it became ….”Oh, Mike. Most people engaged in ‘Holocaust Revision’ are pushing unscientific, preposterous research as a way of DENYING that THE Holocaust (the systematic and industrial slaughter of the Jewish people) ever happened….”

            Is ‘Holocaust revision’ an empty term, David? You have used accusations of it in your blogs to smear others, even linking it to denial as in “Holocaust denial/Holocaust revisionism”. Same intention as Antisemitism/Antizionism?

            Are you accusing me of hating Jews?

            1. yawn…. Of course it is an empty term. SOME historical revision is considered ‘a common and not especially controversial process of developing and refining the writing of history'(source wiki), SOME is certainly not. But you accused me of misusing the term DENIAL. So stop with your weak deflections. Are we talking about the same thing or not. SHOW ME.

              Can you point me to posts I have referred to as denial that you see as legitimate investigation? It is your accusation and down to you to provide evidence for it.
              Can you show me someone engaged in Holocaust revision that you consider to be legitimate questioning?

              1. You have begun to yawn recently, David. Should I assume that you’re not sleeping well?…. developing a conscience perhaps? Seeking to prevent the coming to power of a party that the poor and vulnerable so urgently need?

                1. Farmer,
                  You must really have no life of your own. That’s may be sad, but it’s no one else’s responsibility.

  11. You do not ask questions
    You either make antagonistic statements or make spurious statements
    When asked for evidence and facts to back up your claims you repeat statements made by others without context or obfuscate and try to be comically clever
    Discusion requires intelligent input from both sides, and I find that seriously lacking from you

  12. Please can you supply evidence to back up your claims that l am ‘slimy and dishonest’

  13. This is getting all a bit heavy so its time for a bit of light relief

    Laugh of the week….

    J Hoffman esquire…

    IHRC organises the Hezbolla-supporting Al Quds Day march whose leader Nazim Ali in 2016 blamed Zionists for the Grenfell Inferno

  14. Farmer boy

    Still waiting for your proof and evidence regarding your allegation/accusation that I am ‘slimy and dishonest’.
    Failure to supply said evidence would be proof of your own perfidity in making wild unsubstantiated accusations
    When individuals reply to the considered argument of others by the use of insults and smears, it is proof that they have no substansive argument and need to resort to slander to conceal that fact

    1. “…. by the use of insults and smears, it is proof that they have no substansive argument and need to resort to slander to conceal that fact”

      ‘Farmer boy’ hears what you say.

  15. Farmer boy

    Stil waiting for proof and evidence to substantiate your claims that l am ‘slimy and dishonest ‘

      1. Mike, you refuse to answer ANY questions. You throw empty insults but at the slightest challenge you just run away. What is your point in being here?

        1. I HAVE asked questions … which YOU have refused to answer. I must have missed a similar post to Edward.

        2. I’m here because your blogs smear. Such smears should be challenged.
          You have now told me that one of your favourite smears is just an empty phrase…. so why keep using it?

          ………

          1. I have had enough of him again. He must know he is being dishonest. I do not need to pay for him to do this. Gone.

    1. How many members does the Labour Party have.

      How many have been expelled for ‘antisemitism’.

      Was this for the classic antisemitism … or for breaching the new lacking-in-value IHRA definition?

      1. It doesn’t lack in value just because the utterly thick, ignorant and nasty little POS Farmyard Manure says so.

  16. As per normal, a one liner that says nothing and offers no proof to back up you baseless accusations.

    Some of the comments you post , besides being vacuous, sometimes appear a little deranged.

    I’m aware that many schools and universities appear no longer seem to require critical thinking, but a good argument require critical thought and facts that are verifiable.

    Because you say something does not make it either right or true.

    Do try and answer my question about your allegations that I am ‘slimy and dishonest ‘ with some proof; I know it’s difficult to find evidence where there is none.
    But do try nonetheless.

    And try to Not ‘cut and paste ‘ what I have said, but rather try to use your brain to formulate an intelligible reply.
    There’s a good boy then

    1. Richard. I have ‘temporarily’ excluded him again. Even I have limits. The first time was because he suggested he hadn’t seen any Antisemitism in the first part of the Palestine Live report. This time is over the issue of Holocaust ‘revision’ and Holocaust Denial. I think I gave him enough opportunity to present an example from my blogs of what he considers ‘legitimate revision’ (that I had labelled Denial). Instead he chose to create childish deflections. He can go play with someone else for a while.

    2. He’s on the naughty step Richard. This is a pity really. I’ve always seen the only real value in this comment section as a useful record of the way activists conducted themselves around the subject of antisemitism at this time. All sorts of tacticians have come and gone and probably more will follow on either side. Crass exchanges will continue (and I include my own nonsense here) and the dopamine will flow liberally. The invention of social media has made everyone think that this matter. It may, but probably more to their misplaced sense of purpose than to the course of any real events.

  17. Problem with Farmer is that he has never offered any form of plausible argument.

    I reply to his posts to elicit the inane and vacuous comments, which are his trademark.

    Tragedy is that this is a reflection of the standard arguments deployed against us, and all to often descend into outright Antisemitism when their arguments can’t be substantiated .
    This is probably the way they have been taught to debate in the humanities at universities and also at school
    Pure snowflakery

    Farmer seems to have avoided that situation so far as I can see

  18. Any way been wondering what David plans to do to support Israction day. #Isractiondaystrange death of

    Never ask a question the answer to which you don’t already know o:)

  19. Ah yes Bellers Israction Day; the first time I saw your posts. You were supporting some idiot that opposed charitable giving to the needy. What was your point…oh yeah. It didn’t count as all the old dears that were bringing their tins of soup and crackers were actually Jewish activists and so really insincere and anyway total ZioNazis. Happy anniversary boychik.

              1. BTW Bellers, like the new tack your using with ‘Jews’ in your posts. You had a good go with ‘Israelists’ but that didn’t really catch on outside a couple of your personae. Let’s see if you have more success with this one/

                1. It will remain Israelists Ian because it is Israelists that I have issues with. I merely pointed out that YOU have, seemingly, a thing about Jews.

                  You also struggle when you are faced with a narrow point and are reduced to ignoring it.

                  The narrow point here, Ian is that you seem to have a thing about Jews

                  1. Sorry Bellers. You seem confused. You say you don’t mention ‘Jews’ then go on to mention ‘Jews’. Is this still part of the thing you’re doing or something different?

                    1. Dumb Bellamy is a victim of Fetal Alcohol Poisoning syndrome. It runs in the Dumb Bellamy family.

                  2. No I didn’t you are lying and so transparently so that even our resident professor from the University of the Panhandle, Edward, can probably see it.

                    Further I have learned something from this little rat a tat. While you left even more pig fucking ignorant then when you arrived.

                    You have left haven’t you ?

  20. Nice use of the faux aggression Bellers underpinned with a tasty insult. Then yet another outing for ‘Jews’ . Maybe you could add ‘Jewists’ to your made up word list. You’d like that.

    1. You are a liar Ian . It is no sin to be a liar. It is a sin to so transparent a liar that even the most hilarious fuck wit from the panhandle can see through it. Because by being so you fuck over your mates and become a liability to the nut jobs in your micro bubble. I will stick with Israelists because it works.

      I acquired the idea of the expression from David, here. Your so far off the pace you are a fucking embarrassment.

      Quit lying Ian you are so just so bad at it. And do try to make a bit of an effort to get over your Jew thing ?

      Ian have you learned anything today or have I just been wasting the wear and tear on my fucking keyboard ?

      1. To get an idea how DUMB, Dumb Bellamy is, when Dumb Bellamy was tasked to blow up a bus, as the buses in London on 7/7 2005, he burnt his lips on the tailpipe.

      2. That’s 4 paragraphs of your life you’ll never get back Bellers. Remember, you’re not arsed about any of this. Does 6 consecutive responses from you containing your ‘Jew’ approach constitute traction? It may.

        Anyway, can’t hang around. My Porridgist has brought me my breakfast then it’s off to work with all the NumberSixtyTwoBusists.

          1. Phew, what a day. Missed me Bellers?

            Speaking of In-jokists, one of the gals in HR said that an applicant had “paid his dues” and it reminded me of you. See, it’s catching on.

              1. I could barely contain myself. My Brewist barely got the mug on the table without sloshing it over me. Bad Juju that.

    1. Ah yes. When all else has failed copy/paste summat on one of your personal grudges. Such a predictablist Bellers.

      1. I gave you that one Ian . It seems I can play you like a violin albeit a rusty one. It is so funny how you think that this is an environment where success and failure lurks. Maybe you could honour us with some examples of your successes.

        Speaking of successes……..

        The ickle feral puddy cat ,Sooze, that I have been battling with for nine months purred for the first time yesterday. I wanted you to be the first to know.

  21. You keep stroking your Strad Bellers. It seems to be giving you the relief you seek. I’m a keen purveyor of the arts and if you’re anxious to keep getting your instrument out, who am I to discourage you. You old Luvvyist you !

      1. Bellers, it’s one thing claiming to be lead violin but when you start putting your baton in my hand, I draw the line. Rascalist !

  22. Bellers, you old Grinchist !

    If you oppose charitable giving to these vulnerable groups, what other charities do you also oppose? How about War on Want? Remember their CEO, Ben Phillips saying he’d prefer 500 Arabs to lose their jobs and their incomes rather than work for Sodastream. That’s you that.

    Zio-nanas giving soup to hungry people just to support Israel….not on your watch eh!

        1. Yes, I recall that being your imaginative justification for opposing the needy from getting their soup.

          1. I do enjoy your attention Ian but it it can be a bit embarrassing watching the thrashing arounds of someone that doesn’t have the remotest fucking clue what is going on.

            1. Dead right Bellers. Social media has enabled us both to spout any old bollox and neither of us will ever have the faintest fucking clue who we’re dealing with. You just keep doing you boychik.

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